JJ Trial

[cclarkblues]

Washington Post:

:shock:

EDIT: Colin O'Keefe ‏@colinokeefe
The #JohnsonTrial has come to a close. Though most I see think he will, can Jordan Johnson overcome stats like this? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/01/rape_infographic.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

That is so much BS about only 2% falsely accused. One study that was published in a professional journal showed at least 41% were false accusations. So, who you gonna believe? Science or anti male activists?

I am no statistician, but I firmly believe that statistics can be bent or shaded in any number of directions to make them support or refute an argument. When it comes to false rape reporting, I do have significant firsthand experience. As a public defender and later in private practice, I represented something in the neighborhood of 325 persons charged with sexual assault of one degree or another. In 17 of those cases, it was proven conclusively that the charges were false or drummed up for any number of personal reasons. And I was involved in 4 other cases in which the reporting person recanted earlier testimony and stated that it didn't happen. That's 21 times out of 325, something close to 7%. So yes, it does happen. I have very strong opinions about the case at hand, but that's all they are; as such, I've kept them to myself.

Oldtired, with that many cases and that much experience would a person be considered a pubic defender?

 

[OldtiredGRiz]

Good one, I had to read it twice to catch the absent "L."

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Thanks for posting OldtiredGriz. Good to hear perspective from legal point of view.

 

[BDizzle]

As opposed to say JJ's roomates who knew from the begining or the girls friends teaches etc who also knew from the begining or JJ 's roomates girlfriend or his Dad. All of whom gave informed testimony. The pharmacy student basically saying Well now looking back I don't recal her having problems There was no reason to think she should know anything.. Almost as stupid as Bell saying well looking back she had PTSD

How is any of the testimony you've described NOT from memory? Was there a flux capacitor involved? I am very confused by your posts. Please discuss.

The other witnesses (on both sides) knew from the very begining, or very close to it what happened (or at least what they were told) They also were friend and pretty close to whomever they were testifying for. Up pops this girl. She knew who each was but didn't know them. more over she had no idea for some time that Jane was even the accuser. She was not close to Jane, yet months after all this started was able to say "Nope I never saw leave class" "Nope she didn't act any differently than she did before." That's entirely different than recounting actual "memories" and events as did other's. She was a volunteer, reluctant because she said she was reluctant. She was creating the memories. They may have been accurate but they just as easily may not have been. At least the Florence Nurse had some expertise. But then compared to the First Step Nurse, so would have Alpha.

tnt, I think you are incorrect on your perception of how well the Pharm student knew people, how much she knew, and how soon she knew it.

tnt is very wrong on what HA knew and when she knew it. HA heard about the accusations within a few days of JJ finding out. Just because you are not friends with someone doesn't mean you won't notice them. She also testifies that she started to pay attention to the girl. She was embarrassed because she was probably paying too much attention. Didn't want to come off as a stalker. HA is a very smart, observant girl. She wouldn't just make things up.

 

[Geddes]

Thanks for posting OldtiredGriz. Good to hear perspective from legal point of view.

You mean all these other fu*ksticks aren't lawyers??

 

[montanaguy]

I really have no idea if TNT is on mind-altering substances or just has no mind left. I'm amazed by your idiocy and incoherence. I worry that people like you might be coming towards me in on-coming traffic. Please. people, stop responding to his/her stupidity.

 

[westnodak93bison]

If you are getting raped and have 2 male roommates in the apartment wouldn't you cry out for help?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Griz2k]

If you are getting raped and have 2 male roommates in the apartment wouldn't you cry out for help?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Nope. You ask your rapist if he has a condom, assist him sexually even though he doesn't, make a snack afterwards and then drive him home. Pretty simple really.

 

[Gaeilge1]

I have not commented on here for a while but I just could not let this go.

Statistical Science is a science the same way Political Science is a science. It is the study of numerical data to establish a foregone conclusion. Specifically:

1. (used with a sing. verb) The mathematics of the collection, organization, and interpretation of numerical data, especially the analysis of population characteristics by inference from sampling.
2. (used with a pl. verb) Numerical data.

To suggest that this process of collecting data is applicable to the rules governing the execution of applied scientific techniques is not only incorrect it is moronic.

 

[mtgrizrule]

So how long will it likely take tomorrow before the jury goes to vote? I have never been part of a jury. I really don't have an idea. How likely is it for them to be in deliberation before Noon? I expect a decision tomorrow, unless there are a few scragglers that refuse to go with the majority. Personally, I don't see how anyone can see him guilty in this case.

 

[kemajic]

There is a science called Statistics.. again, it is a science so not that you would ever hear that at a UM class, but just thought you should know!!

Meanwhile, statistics is a tool, not a science and is offered in the School of Business.But I digress, as you cannot connect....

Of Course you are right.... I certainly cannot connect!!

er.... wait!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_Science" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.imstat.org/sts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I guess I had better tell Duke University that they are full of crap....
http://stat.duke.edu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

same for Baylor
http://www.baylor.edu/statistics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

same with SMU
https://www.smu.edu/Dedman/Academics/Departments/Statistics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:lol: :lol: you pompous griz slay me....

Gaeilge1 shot down your lame argument perfectly, so I won't bother to go further. As it relates to your last statement, you're probably right; not the place for you. See ya.

 

[go96griz]

If you are getting raped and have 2 male roommates in the apartment wouldn't you cry out for help?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Nope. You ask your rapist if he has a condom, assist him sexually even though he doesn't, make a snack afterwards and then drive him home. Pretty simple really.

Apparently you would keep the clothes from that night too and wear them frequently afterwards to remind you of the horrible experience. You would also send a text immediately after the incident containing a smiley face to cheer you up about the ordeal. Then you would go tell 40+ of your closest friends all about the horrible experience so you could live it all over again. You would also befriend the Dean of your department and become texting buddies with the nurse that performed your exam and the female cop leading the investigation. It didn't come out in the trial, but the former Dean of students also developed a close relationship with the accuser. And on and on... See any patterns here folks.

Not only is JJ not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt - he is flat out not guilty at all! This whole thing was a complete sham and a travesty for Johnson.

 

[spokaneman]

There is a science called Statistics.. again, it is a science so not that you would ever hear that at a UM class, but just thought you should know!!

Meanwhile, statistics is a tool, not a science and is offered in the School of Business.But I digress, as you cannot connect....

Of Course you are right.... I certainly cannot connect!!

er.... wait!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_Science" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.imstat.org/sts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I guess I had better tell Duke University that they are full of crap....
http://stat.duke.edu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

same for Baylor
http://www.baylor.edu/statistics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

same with SMU
https://www.smu.edu/Dedman/Academics/Departments/Statistics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:lol: :lol: you pompous griz slay me....

Gaeilge1 shot down your lame argument perfectly, so I won't bother to go further. As it relates to your last statement, you're probably right; not the place for you. See ya.

Oh good lord you guys are gluttons for punishment!!

Ok... don't take it from me.. will you believe Science Journal??.. the WORLDS LEADING JOURNAL OF SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH on The American Association for the Advancement of Science website

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6077/12.summary" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Popular media and science publications sound the drum: “Big Data” will drive our future, from translating genomic information into new therapies, to harnessing the Web to untangle complex social interactions, to detecting infectious disease outbreaks. Statistics is the science of learning from data, and of measuring, controlling, and communicating uncertainty; and it thereby provides the navigation essential for controlling the course of scientific and societal advances

Science IS Statistics.... Statistics IS Science.... if either of you two attended an actual University, you would have learned this.... instead the saying "do you want fries with that" was engrained into your memory...

 

[mtgrizrule]

Go read Jim Oday's fb page. Someone comments something like "too bad 2 good people lost their jobs over this." J O D comments back more than 2 did.

There is so much more we don't know. I wonder what more will be uncovered behind this, and the dismissals. I have a feeling, GRIZNATION has not heard the end of this, and the politics behind everything over the last few years.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Meanwhile, statistics is a tool, not a science and is offered in the School of Business.But I digress, as you cannot connect....

Of Course you are right.... I certainly cannot connect!!

er.... wait!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_Science" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.imstat.org/sts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I guess I had better tell Duke University that they are full of crap....
http://stat.duke.edu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

same for Baylor
http://www.baylor.edu/statistics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

same with SMU
https://www.smu.edu/Dedman/Academics/Departments/Statistics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:lol: :lol: you pompous griz slay me....

Gaeilge1 shot down your lame argument perfectly, so I won't bother to go further. As it relates to your last statement, you're probably right; not the place for you. See ya.

Oh good lord you guys are gluttons for punishment!!

Ok... don't take it from me.. will you believe Science Journal??.. the WORLDS LEADING JOURNAL OF SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH on The American Association for the Advancement of Science website

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6077/12.summary" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Popular media and science publications sound the drum: “Big Data” will drive our future, from translating genomic information into new therapies, to harnessing the Web to untangle complex social interactions, to detecting infectious disease outbreaks. Statistics is the science of learning from data, and of measuring, controlling, and communicating uncertainty; and it thereby provides the navigation essential for controlling the course of scientific and societal advances

Science IS Statistics.... Statistics IS Science.... if either of you two attended an actual University, you would have learned this.... instead the saying "do you want fries with that" was engrained into your memory...

Even if stats are science (though calling something a science far from makes it so), would you at least agree that the study purporting to quantify unreported rapes is not statistically reliable, and even less scientific? It seems like that is the main point here.

 

[stubbins]

fox montana is doing a show on the trial right now...

 

[Griz2k]

If you are getting raped and have 2 male roommates in the apartment wouldn't you cry out for help?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Nope. You ask your rapist if he has a condom, assist him sexually even though he doesn't, make a snack afterwards and then drive him home. Pretty simple really.

Apparently you would keep the clothes from that night too and wear them frequently afterwards to remind you of the horrible experience. You would also send a text immediately after the incident containing a smiley face to cheer you up about the ordeal. Then you would go tell 40+ of your closest friends all about the horrible experience so you could live it all over again. You would also befriend the Dean of your department and become texting buddies with the nurse that performed your exam and the female cop leading the investigation. It didn't come out in the trial, but the former Dean of students also developed a close relationship with the accuser. And on and on... See any patterns here folks.

Not only is JJ not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt - he is flat out not guilty at all! This whole thing was a complete sham and a travesty for Johnson.

And then you get someone like tnt saying it's obvious JJ is a rapist, there's just no evidence whatsoever to prove it.

 

[Grizzoola]

According to the "Criminal Jury Instructions" on the MT Justice Dept. website, https://doj.mt.gov/agooffice/criminal-jury-instructions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, in section 5-125, the instruction for sexual intercourse w/o consent includes that the accused knowingly committed the offense. I don't believe the State proved this beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact, the defense showed JJ's account is more believable than hers, by the information re: her conduct, as brought out by the defense.

It comes down to who has more veracity re: the events, and it was shown that she has lied in other situations & JJ's veracity was attested to by his character witnesses and his demeanor in his own testimony. If I were on the jury & heard that instruction, I'd have to vote not guilty.

 

[mtgrizrule]

According to the "Criminal Jury Instructions" on the MT Justice Dept. website, https://doj.mt.gov/agooffice/criminal-jury-instructions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, in section 5-125, the instruction for sexual intercourse w/o consent includes that the accused knowingly committed the offense. I don't believe the State proved this beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact, the defense showed JJ's account is more believable than hers, by the information re: her conduct, as brought out by the defense.

It comes down to who has more veracity re: the events, and it was shown that she has lied in other situations & JJ's veracity was attested to by his character witnesses and his demeanor in his own testimony. If I were on the jury & heard that instruction, I'd have to vote not guilty.

I would not say not guilty. I would be saying "innocent"!!!!

 

[BigPawzSharpClawz]

I have made it a point to keep my opinions too myself about this trial.
However, to me its really simple I have two basic items that I want to point out.

1) Roomate in "very" close proximity; hears no cries for help, no audible request or commands that would indicate "non-consent"
2) After fixing snack(s) supposed victim gives (alledged rapist) ride home. Placing her alone with supposed rapist for another extended period of time

I dont know about you but this is my WTF moments!
My belief is that this young lady was pressure by a few perticular board members, administrators, staff and media to push the issue. This is where the text campaign excellerated.

End of the day, ask yourself...could you ruin a persons life and send a young man to jail under the accusation of rape for that?