JJ Trial

[argh!]

jeez, i had nearly forgotten about the existence of um75. i have no idea how that could happen, given that he is a paragon of unbiased judicial reasoning and wisdom, a veritable fount of legal knowledge! thank you so much for coming back to defend mr. johnson with such intellectual flair and elan!

- or -

geez, not this asshole again.

 

[UMGriz75]

There your problem 75 you string together lots of words with out any point of reference, and no understanding of behavior. Just about any mom would (as women in general do) immediately jump all over a daughter in this situation. You didn't hear anything in court or anywhere elses.

And when the trial testimony -- actual words from actual people -- exposes you as a complete liar on the point ... well then, it's somebody else ... that .. is stringing ...uh... words together, sort of, with ... no understanding ... of ... behavior," then its really like you stringing together the words "alcohol-fueled sexual predator" and continuing to claim it's true, even though it has now been shown to be false.

So, you lied, over and over, it was proven in court, and your response? Attack the other guy!

Not even a shred of integrity, not that anyone with any would have fabricated the allegation in the first place, so that particular failing only offers a redundancy.

 

[GrizMusician]

Mods - Can we split the Donaldson discussion into another thread? He has absolutely nothing to do with the Johnson trial.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[tnt]

There your problem 75 you string together lots of words with out any point of reference, and no understanding of behavior. Just about any mom would (as women in general do) immediately jump all over a daughter in this situation. You didn't hear anything in court or anywhere elses.

And when the trial testimony -- actual words from actual people -- exposes you as a complete liar on the point ... well then, it's somebody else ... that .. is stringing ...uh... words together, sort of, with ... no understanding ... of ... behavior." then its really like you stringing together the words "alcohol-fueled sexual predator" and continuing to claim it's true, even though it has now been shown to be false.

So, you lied, over and over, it was proven in court, and your response? Attack the other guy!

Not even a shred of integrity, not that anyone with any would have fabricated the allegation in the first place, so that particular failing only offers a redundancy.

OMG theres a verdict an we didn't even know the trial was over.....

 

[Jerry Punch]

UMGriz75, I am sorry I offended you or wrote in a tone that offended you. I can't help how you react to what I say. But if you won't address the comments from Donaldson's attorney or at least distance yourself from them, I will take it that you don't disagree. That's too bad because I think there are a lot of good and decent fans here to whom you are doing a great disservice. Your rage is palpable.

 

[grizatwork]

I think he is referring to Donaldsons lawyer who kind of stated that he got a raw deal.

I suspect you are right, 20 suspended is a pretty good deal IF he takes advantage of it. I was thinking of him yesterday when the "expert was testifying"

In regards to the accusers mother, its not surprising she was ranting at her daughter (while inwardly wanting to castrate the guy) Women in general are harder on each other. Paoli did well (for his client) to get as many on the jury as he did. But he may not of scored as well with them as he did here with the mother thing

I don't know. I was telling my Fiance about this. She is a California girl with 2 daughters ages 25 and 17 and is not a follower of sports at all. Her first response was to get angry at the girl. She said if her daughter came to her with the story as we know it, she would have sat her down and made her daughter figure out where she went wrong. She also said there is no way she would allow her daughter to press charges given the information we have been given up till now. I have a 16 year old daughter and I actually went over some of this information with her in an attempt to educate her. As a father, I can sympathize with the accuser in this case, but have trouble justifying a case here. My daughter also was harder on the girl. My gut feeling is that the women are more likely to judge the girl harsher and any man on the jury with a daughter is more likely to sympathize withe the accuser.

 

[Zootown Rox]

Can someone find me one popular thread on this site that doesn't include two members sniping at each other? Please if someone is being a dick to you in a thread, just ignore them, your responses just make them stronger!

 

[Zootown Rox]

My gut feeling is that the women are more likely to judge the girl harsher and any man on the jury with a daughter is more likely to sympathize withe the accuser.

Totally true, which is why the defense was probably happy to get 7 women on the jury.

 

[Grisly Fan]

UMGriz75, I am sorry I offended you or wrote in a tone that offended you. I can't help how you react to what I say. But if you won't address the comments from Donaldson's attorney or at least distance yourself from them, I will take it that you don't disagree. That's too bad because I think there are a lot of good and decent fans here to whom you are doing a great disservice. Your rage is palpable.

As is your abject stupidity. You don't even have the intelligence to know when you have had your ass handed to you. Sad.

 

[Jerry Punch]

UMGriz75, I am sorry I offended you or wrote in a tone that offended you. I can't help how you react to what I say. But if you won't address the comments from Donaldson's attorney or at least distance yourself from them, I will take it that you don't disagree. That's too bad because I think there are a lot of good and decent fans here to whom you are doing a great disservice. Your rage is palpable.

As is your abject stupidity. You don't even have the intelligence to know when you have had your ass handed to you. Sad.

I respect your opinion. But if you don't think that Donaldson got too stiff a sentence because of the atmosphere in Missoula, then speak up. There's one guy speaking to national newspapers about this situation and that's what the world is going to think based on his opinion. You can distance yourself from them, as I assume many Griz fans would, or just continue to insult me. The choice is yours.

 

[tnt]

Exactly Griz at work. Thats the way women work (and GOOD moms)

 

[Jerry Punch]

My gut feeling is that the women are more likely to judge the girl harsher and any man on the jury with a daughter is more likely to sympathize withe the accuser.

Totally true, which is why the defense was probably happy to get 7 women on the jury.

This. Women have that crazy streak, but they recognize when it goes too far. Men probably do not want to appear to be judging that streak either way, thus the composition of the jury will help smooth that over.

 

[biga75]

Can someone find me one popular thread on this site that doesn't include two members sniping at each other? Please if someone is being a dick to you in a thread, just ignore them, your responses just make them stronger!

:clap: Thank you. It gets really difficult to follow the substantive (probably the wrong term for an eGriz thread) posts when you have to wade through the pissing matches. Take your bitching to PMs.

 

[tampa_griz]

There your problem 75 you string together lots of words with out any point of reference, and no understanding of behavior. Just about any mom would (as women in general do) immediately jump all over a daughter in this situation.

Really? Mom's get mad at daughters that have been raped? Really?

 

[grizatwork]

UMGriz75, I am sorry I offended you or wrote in a tone that offended you. I can't help how you react to what I say. But if you won't address the comments from Donaldson's attorney or at least distance yourself from them, I will take it that you don't disagree. That's too bad because I think there are a lot of good and decent fans here to whom you are doing a great disservice. Your rage is palpable.

As is your abject stupidity. You don't even have the intelligence to know when you have had your ass handed to you. Sad.

I respect your opinion. But if you don't think that Donaldson got too stiff a sentence because of the atmosphere in Missoula, then speak up. There's one guy speaking to national newspapers about this situation and that's what the world is going to think based on his opinion. You can distance yourself from them, as I assume many Griz fans would, or just continue to insult me. The choice is yours.

Honestly, I would say Donaldson got off pretty easily with only having to do 10 of the 30 years.

 

[Washgrizfan1]

I see again that instead of addressing the comments made by Donaldson's attorney, you insult me. That's fine. My skin is pretty thick and for right or for wrong, it is even thicker on a message board. Insult away and do not address the substance of the post.

Something is pretty thick. Characteristically, you didn't mention Donaldson's lawyer. You said "Griz Nation." Someone else made the connection for you, and now, apparently just to you, the idea that somebody's lawyer said they got a "raw deal," is a wholly new experience for you; one so incredibly cynical to hear from somebody's lawyer that you personally decided it was the problem for a fan base that you, and I guess you alone, are compelled to repair by fabricating bizarre comparisons between movie plots and expert witnesses, as an antidote to your stunned discovery that a defense lawyer somewhere said somewhere that his defendant, and only his defendant, got "a raw deal."

"Instead of addressing the comments made by Donaldson's attorney ..." there goes that pompously weird "I am the hall monitor" voice again, on a thread about an ongoing trial, where you have decided to address all of the woes of the sport world by demanding commentary on a different trial from the unheard of comment of a lawyer that thought his client got a "raw deal" -- which is something apparently so new and novel and uncomprehensible to you -- that I can only marvel at how you can even type today, given your very recent day of birth.

This is what was said on this point in the ESPN article: "It is certain," Datsopoulos said, "that the environment created in Missoula is responsible for the 10-year sentence. " Is there anything about the statement that anyone believes is wrong. Feel free to point out any comparable date rape sentences in Missoula or Montana that have been more harsh. There are multiple examples of lesser rape sentences in Montana.

See the article in this link to a lesser rape sentence in January 2013. This guy hadn't been caught until recently. Facts were worse than Donaldson's, it seems to me. 20 year sentence with 13 suspended, so 7 years. The judge rejected the plea agreement and sentenced the guy to a longer sentence. http://www.kaj18.com/news/flathead-man-charge-with-rapes-sentenced/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Washgrizfan1]

UMGriz75, I am sorry I offended you or wrote in a tone that offended you. I can't help how you react to what I say. But if you won't address the comments from Donaldson's attorney or at least distance yourself from them, I will take it that you don't disagree. That's too bad because I think there are a lot of good and decent fans here to whom you are doing a great disservice. Your rage is palpable.

As is your abject stupidity. You don't even have the intelligence to know when you have had your ass handed to you. Sad.

I respect your opinion. But if you don't think that Donaldson got too stiff a sentence because of the atmosphere in Missoula, then speak up. There's one guy speaking to national newspapers about this situation and that's what the world is going to think based on his opinion. You can distance yourself from them, as I assume many Griz fans would, or just continue to insult me. The choice is yours.

Honestly, I would say Donaldson got off pretty easily with only having to do 10 of the 30 years.

What basis do you have for saying that? Feel free to call attention to some longer sentences for date rape in Montana. See my recent post on the subject.

 

[Glendivegriz]

My gut feeling is that the women are more likely to judge the girl harsher and any man on the jury with a daughter is more likely to sympathize withe the accuser.

Totally true, which is why the defense was probably happy to get 7 women on the jury.

There are actually jury studies on this issue and you are correct that women tend to judge other women in these type of cases much harsher and will not identify with women accussers because it sometimes parrallels to closely with their own experiences. They do not like to acknowledge this and thus disassociate the behaviour as being something that the accuser did to herself.

 

[tnt]

There your problem 75 you string together lots of words with out any point of reference, and no understanding of behavior. Just about any mom would (as women in general do) immediately jump all over a daughter in this situation.

Really? Mom's get mad at daughters that have been raped? Really?

Yeah they do: What did you do? Could you have done more? what were you wearing? Did you give him mixed sinals Why were you with him etc etc. All the questions that have been asked and more, not sure if "mad is the word" It wouldn't be surprising if "moms qustions" were overwhelming

Its not an unfamiliar position 1 in 5 are estimated to have been "raped" higher on college campuses

 

[grizatwork]

There your problem 75 you string together lots of words with out any point of reference, and no understanding of behavior. Just about any mom would (as women in general do) immediately jump all over a daughter in this situation.

Really? Mom's get mad at daughters that have been raped? Really?

I am not sure that is what tnt meant. From what I understand tnt meant that a mother would be angry that her daughter invited a drunk friend into her room, got into bed with him, got into a state of undress, participated in foreplay, and then.....Right there is where the stories appearantly diverge. I think many mothers in that situation would think that sex is a foregone conclusion. As I said previously, many women are going to be judgemental of the girl in that situation. Dads always are going to see their little girl in that situation. This case is pushing so many emotional buttons.