JJ Trial

[Griz2k]

There's an "attitude" problem, all right. It's with people so obsessed with their preferred result that the facts don't matter at all; they are an inconvenience to an alter-reality.

This problem affects nearly all the judges in Missoula. Karen Townsend, the judge in this trial, decides all her cases before she hears any evidence and this case is no different. Just watch, she sustains all the objections from the Prosecution, all the pre-trial motions went the Prosecutions way. Remember all those texts messages the defense wanted but she wouldn't allow to be entered as evidence, she's a terrible judge that doesn't allow the legal system or a fair trial to get in the way of her preconceptions.

This is the same judge that said before the trial that JJ "probably did it".

Is this true? If it is it seems like pretty significant judicial misconduct to me.

My apologies... I looked it up to make sure what she said and I did misquote it a bit, but not by much. Here's the actual statement...

Judge Karen Townsend says there is enough evidence in the charging documents that show there's a "fair probability that the Defendant committed the crimes of sexual intercourse without consent."

Still over the line for a judge in my opinion. To me that prejudices the potential jury members.

 

[tnt]

What about YOUR "alcohol fueled predator" claim? Explain that.

That certainly would be better than a crazed rapist. But that was in response to one of 75's numerous last spring rantings based on a leaked text that she was a complete crazy. If JJ knew it based on her
"performance" at the forresters ball (75 gave a description that would make any one think she was) and went over for a hook up after a having a few, that certainly would be taking advantage of her (or predatory) and if he had to have had a few to consider it that would be alcohol fueled.

Why is it so surprising that anyone would take exception to 75's "words" he makes it too easy.

Oh jeez, man up. Your characterization was over the line. Instead of blaming anyone else, take responsibility for your own statement. You might salvage some credibility.

The trial will determine the reality. (I also said that in the thread)

My response to 75's depiction of events was not over the line. If she was as crazed and desperate as 75 was saying he took advantage of her. I have no problem standing behind it. I believe that is what Paoli at this moment is trying to prove. He (JJ) should not have been at that house.

 

[Grisly Fan]

Honest legal question: does being in a house "that you shouldn't be" and "taking advantage" of someone equal rape (or whatever it is referred to in Montana statue) if the accuser didn't make it clear that she didn't want to have sex? In other words, could you prove all of that and still lose the case?

 

[EverettGriz]

I really have nothing of substance to add to the conversation (not that there's an abundance of subtance to begin with), but I found this sentence rather remarkable:

Or maybe as tried interjected in direct resetablished in cross and tries again in recross (and we'll see where it goes this morning that while that may be what he initially thought his impressions changed pretty quickly as things progressed.....

That may be the most WTF confusing sentence ever typed on this board. And that's a mighty high standard....

Seriously. Read that -- 50 times if you must -- and tell me what it's trying to say.

 

[tnt]

Honest legal question: does being in a house "that you shouldn't be" and "taking advantage" of someone equal rape (or whatever it is referred to in Montana statue) if the accuser didn't make it clear that she didn't want to have sex? In other words, could you prove all of that and still lose the case?

I don't know about the legality in terms of "rape", but it certainly would indicate to many that taking advantage of someone in a place you shouldn't have gone is not High moral character (and certainly cast doubts on the character and direction of leadership of anyone who thought otherwise.)

 

[tnt]

I really have nothing of substance to add to the conversation (not that there's an abundance of subtance to begin with), but I found this sentence rather remarkable:

Or maybe as tried interjected in direct resetablished in cross and tries again in recross (and we'll see where it goes this morning that while that may be what he initially thought his impressions changed pretty quickly as things progressed.....

That may be the most WTF confusing sentence ever typed on this board. And that's a mighty high standard....

Seriously. Read that -- 50 times if you must -- and tell me what it's trying to say.

It means when HALF of a statement is missing a couple of commas and has been (dare I say it) raped by auto correct. You end up with a statement worthy of 75 and in serious need of proof reading.

 

[Zootown Rox]

Judge denies a motion from defense regarding investigation into woman's sexual activity 5 days prior to exam that could explain the genital lacerations.

That seems like relevant information, but not surprised, if this judge grants any motion from the defense I will be shocked.

 

[Da Griz]

"Judge Karen Townsend says there is enough evidence in the charging documents that show there's a "fair probability that the Defendant committed the crimes of sexual intercourse without consent."

This statement was made by the judge only in the context that there was enough evidence to go to trial and she was not going to grant the defense motion to dismiss.

 

[UMGriz75]

My response to 75's depiction of events was not over the line. If she was as crazed and desperate as 75 was saying he took advantage of her. I have no problem standing behind it. I believe that is what Paoli at this moment is trying to prove. He (JJ) should not have been at that house.

You are backpeddling so fast you are going to break something. On a different day, she had showed up at the Forester's Ball, drunk. A day later, JJ comes over to her house to watch movies. No one has testified at this trial -- the real trial -- that either of them were drunk that evening and in particular, that JJ was the "alcohol fueled sexual predator" that tnt described repeatedly last year.

Now, it almost reads like tnt is attempting to say that she was the "alcohol fueled sexual predator" and that JJ should have known better.

Wellllll, that changes the standard of proof doesn't it?

No, it doesn't. Tnt fabricated the charge last year, fabricated a set of circumstances to put JJ in the worst possible light, sanctimoniously attempted to claim objectivity, and has been shown, by actual trial testimony, to have fabricated the whole notion.

Who in the h*** can claim to be a responsible adult, and make those kind of obscene charges and claims, over and over, about a young man possibly wrongly accused, literally on trial for his life? Frankly, the accusations were not mere speculation, they were vicious accusations, outright libel.

The fact is, tnt is not a responsible adult, and offered malicious, venomous, and fabricated accusations last year, and is now trying to churn up unreadable excuses to claim he didn't, really. It was all a misunderstanding based on somebody else's description of her at the Forester's Ball.

Aside from the fact that that pathetic whining evasion doesn't even make sense, it is worse than merely wrong, because it manages to be dishonest as well.

 

[GRZFTBL]

:shock:

Montana Kaimin ‏@KaiminNews
Doe told Francoeur that Johnson put entire hand in her vagina when testimonies have said different. #JohnsonTrial

 

[tnt]

Judge denies a motion from defense regarding investigation into woman's sexual activity 5 days prior to exam that could explain the genital lacerations.

That seems like relevant information, but not surprised, if this judge grants any motion from the defense I will be shocked.

Paoil in a rare mistake had requested that that the part of the record containing that information be stricken. Whether it was pre trial or during the blackout is anyones guess

 

[GRZFTBL]

Jesus...

missoulian ‏@missoulian
Paoli: Your testimony is that he put his entire hand into her vagina. MF: Yes. Paoli: She testified he didn't. #johnsontrial

 

[EverettGriz]

Jesus...

missoulian ‏@missoulian
Paoli: Your testimony is that he put his entire hand into her vagina. MF: Yes. Paoli: She testified he didn't. #johnsontrial

That just may be the 3-ball when a team is already up 9 with 47 seconds left. In other words, "Coffin nail".

 

[indian-outlaw]

Jesus...

missoulian ‏@missoulian
Paoli: Your testimony is that he put his entire hand into her vagina. MF: Yes. Paoli: She testified he didn't. #johnsontrial

That just may be the 3-ball when a team is already up 9 with 47 seconds left. In other words, "Coffin nail".

I'm confused, who's up?

 

[GRZFTBL]

Jesus...

missoulian ‏@missoulian
Paoli: Your testimony is that he put his entire hand into her vagina. MF: Yes. Paoli: She testified he didn't. #johnsontrial

That just may be the 3-ball when a team is already up 9 with 47 seconds left. In other words, "Coffin nail".

Cat's in the bag and the bags in the river? :lol:

 

[Glendivegriz]

"without consent" means: the victim is compelled to submit by force against the victim or another;....
45-5-501(a) M.C.A.
force means: the infliction, attempted infliction, or threatened infliction of bodily injury or the commision of a forcible felony by the offender; or the threat of substantial retaliatory action that causes the victim to reasonably believe that the offender has the ability to excute the threat. Id.(2)a.

for those of you wanting to know.

 

[grizatwork]

"Judge Karen Townsend says there is enough evidence in the charging documents that show there's a "fair probability that the Defendant committed the crimes of sexual intercourse without consent."

This statement was made by the judge only in the context that there was enough evidence to go to trial and she was not going to grant the defense motion to dismiss.

That is right. That is not misconduct. That is standard procedure where the judge determines in a pre-trial hearing if sufficient evidence exists to warrant a trial. Not determining or stating guilt, but that there is sufficient evidence to warrant a trial.

 

[Grisly Fan]

"without consent" means: the victim is compelled to submit by force against the victim or another;....
45-5-501(a) M.C.A.
force means: the infliction, attempted infliction, or threatened infliction of bodily injury or the commision of a forcible felony by the offender; or the threat of substantial retaliatory action that causes the victim to reasonably believe that the offender has the ability to excute the threat. Id.(2)a.

for those of you wanting to know.

"Taking advantage" doesn't seem to be included anywhere on that. Sounds like the prosecution is rather desperate if they are spending much time on this.

 

[NorthEndZoneDan]

Jesus...

missoulian ‏@missoulian
Paoli: Your testimony is that he put his entire hand into her vagina. MF: Yes. Paoli: She testified he didn't. #johnsontrial

That just may be the 3-ball when a team is already up 9 with 47 seconds left. In other words, "Coffin nail".

I'm confused, who's up?

Me too, wtf is this all about? a fist? really? is that what the nurse is claiming happened and Jane Doe is telling a different version? I'm not following something here?

 

[Griz2k]

"Judge Karen Townsend says there is enough evidence in the charging documents that show there's a "fair probability that the Defendant committed the crimes of sexual intercourse without consent."

This statement was made by the judge only in the context that there was enough evidence to go to trial and she was not going to grant the defense motion to dismiss.

Then all she needed to say is there is enough evidence to go to trial and end it there. But she went even further. Did she really need to add the "fair probability he did it" remark? That's what I have the biggest problem with. It seemed in my opinion, and it's only my opinion, that she had made her mind up about JJ's guilt before it even got to trial. I realize the jury still has to decide but she can certainly sway a trial one way or another with her actions.