JJ Trial

[Jerry Punch]

Have you read the thread?

I'm disgusted because many (and here I won't isolate cat fans) have turned it into precisely what you and I agree it shouldn't be: a pissing match between Griz and Cat fans.

No. You are suggesting that Cat fans want JJ convicted. I was on BN today. As is typical during an offseason with (fingers crossed) no criminal matters, there isn't too much chatter after signing day.

This case is being discussed. I didn't read any Cat fans stating they wished JJ would be convicted.

You want us to think that. I certainly do not think that. I haven't talked to any Cat fans who feel the way you think they do. But if it helps you cope with this situation to demonize us like that, then go ahead, I guess. I'll be watching for Jordy to get the justice he deserves, which at this point is probably an acquittal or outright not-guilty.

 

[UMGriz75]

Am I the only person that feels like this Green roommate is inconsistent as f***??

Just when I think he's helping the accuser's story, Paoli gets him to change his story...

Well, from the tweets:

Did you think woman was exaggerating when she texted you? Green: No

Document provided. Green says he didn't think she exaggerated.

Paoli addressing statement about exaggeration. Asking Green to read statement he made previously

Green: Agrees he earlier said he thought text was exaggerated.

You thought she was exaggerating and you said yes? Green: Yes.

A statement made to Paoli from Green, Green did say Doe exaggerated. Thompson attempted to add context, but judge overruled

Thompson asking if Green can explain statement again. Judge says no.

This is almost at the bizarre level. For the State to leave, in the Jury's mind, the spectacle of pleading to "explain" the fact that their witness just blew up on them, and that they will have overnight to think about it .... ouch.

And they can't call him back.

 

[bigsky33]

I for one Cat fan have been following the trial on Twitter. So far my take is that she and the housemate have been very straight forward in their testimony and haven't been shaken. I feel the expert witness was excellent in confirming her behavior was typical in rape cases.

This trial has a long way to go. I just hope justice is served. There are no winners in this case!

 

[stubbins]

I think whats interesting is how each reporter sumarizes the question differently and some the geniuses here summarizes the summaries (Picked and chosen) and tries to pass it off as transcript.

I think what is really interesting is what is missing from all of the testimony, that is, your frequently repeated claim last year that this was JJ's behavior as "an alcohol-fueled sexual predator."

This trial testimony exposes your libel as the complete lie, and the complete libel, that it was.

I would doubt that it was your "genius" quality that provoked you to aggressively spread a complete lie in the prospective jury pool, or it's just the way you are, but finally, the trial testimony has fully exposed you as spreading that egregiously false claim.

Interestingly, after having repeatedly lied, and promoted a false narrative, you have the nerve now to complain about a direct recitation of objective news reports?

Do you have any shame, or are you just Joe McCarthy's long lost retarded grand nephew?

well said...this tnt fuck has been wrong everytime he opens his biased mouth.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Am I the only person that feels like this Green roommate is inconsistent as f***??

Just when I think he's helping the accuser's story, Paoli gets him to change his story...

Paoli is the man as a defense attorney. So far every person on that stand has been reduced to having nothing to help the prosecution. The DR even left the stand with people thinking "I don't know/neutral" result.

Seriously, how can a jury not have the same feeling of "I don't know" at this stage too? The accuser better hope the prosecution has all aces and wild cards up their sleeve. Right now, I am questioning how this case even came to trial? Which is too bad for the accuser, because of all she has to go through regarding the case. It looks like a waste of tax payer money as of now. Which for JJ, is great.

I had few people tell me if this goes to trial, you will wonder why it did? So far they are right. 1 of those people is a retired federal judge, the other a lawyer of 25 plus years. When it went to trial, I honestly thought there would be a much stronger case for the prosecution. For you legal minds, how much influence does the accusers desire to have this case go to trial impact the decision to go to trial?

 

[firstdown-montana...]

So if Jordy is found innocent - And W and room mate are found guilty of perjury, what is the penalty?

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

The penalty for such perjury will not be even close to enough considering the magnitude of the damage done.

 

[RobGriz]

So if Jordy is found innocent - And W and room mate are found guilty of perjury, what is the penalty?

Not sure they would be found guilty of anything. This is not a civil trial, the prosecutors are the ones that brought the case against JJ not the accuser. And that was, supposedly, based upon a preponderence of the evidence.

 

[Zootown Rox]

So if Jordy is found innocent - And W and room mate are found guilty of perjury, what is the penalty?

Wouldn't there have to be a separate perjury trial, or hearing. Having a jury bring back a 'not guilty' verdict only means that it wasn't 'beyond a reasonable doubt' not that they thought the woman was lying. They might even believe her story, but don't think that JJ knew she wasn't giving consent, which equals a 'not guilty' verdict and no perjury. This isn't just a he said/she said it's a she said - beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[GrizPony]

Am I the only person that feels like this Green roommate is inconsistent as f***??

Just when I think he's helping the accuser's story, Paoli gets him to change his story...

Well, from the tweets:

Did you think woman was exaggerating when she texted you? Green: No

Document provided. Green says he didn't think she exaggerated.

Paoli addressing statement about exaggeration. Asking Green to read statement he made previously

Green: Agrees he earlier said he thought text was exaggerated.

You thought she was exaggerating and you said yes? Green: Yes.

A statement made to Paoli from Green, Green did say Doe exaggerated. Thompson attempted to add context, but judge overruled

Thompson asking if Green can explain statement again. Judge says no.

This is almost at the bizarre level. For the State to leave, in the Jury's mind, the spectacle of pleading to "explain" the fact that their witness just blew up on them, and that they will have overnight to think about it .... ouch.

And they can't call him back.

I sat there all afternoon and this is EXACTLY how it played out. tnt is a liar and is exposed as such.

 

[uofmman1122]

So if Jordy is found innocent - And W and room mate are found guilty of perjury, what is the penalty?

Wouldn't there have to be a separate perjury trial, or hearing. Having a jury bring back a 'not guilty' verdict only means that it wasn't 'beyond a reasonable doubt' not that they thought the woman was lying. They might even believe her story, but don't think that JJ knew she wasn't giving consent, which equals a 'not guilty' verdict and no perjury. This isn't just a he said/she said it's a she said - beyond a reasonable doubt.

This.

I really think this girl truly believes she was raped. The problem with the court is that I haven't seen anything in her testimony that shows that JJ knew she didn't want to have sex. If they can't prove that, then JJ likely walks.

 

[UMGriz75]

For you legal minds, how much influence does the accusers desire to have this case go to trial impact the decision to go to trial?

Initially and ordinarily, quite a bit.

On this particularly case, practically none, because of the social and political context; the firestorm inflamed by people like Pat Williams, Royce Engstrom, Thomas Perez and crusading journalists desperately in search of a crusade.

The alleged victim can become the real victim -- but of the "State." If they threaten on high profile cases to not cooperate on pressing forward, the State can, and does, then threaten charges of filing a false report and perjury in order to obtain the alleged victim's "cooperation" -- charges they will not press if an actual trial and acquittal shows that there likely was a false report and a perjury.

 

[mtgrizrule]

For you legal minds, how much influence does the accusers desire to have this case go to trial impact the decision to go to trial?

Initially and ordinarily, quite a bit.

On this particularly case, practically none, because of the social and political context; the firestorm inflamed by people like Pat Williams, Thomas Perez and crusading journalists desperately in search of a crusade.

The alleged victim can become the real victim -- but of the "State." If they threaten on high profile cases to not cooperate on pressing forward, the State can, and does, then threaten charges of filing a false report and perjury in order to obtain the alleged victim's "cooperation" -- charges they will not press if an actual trial and acquittal shows that there likely was a false report and a perjury.

Wow, no wonder some women do not pursue these things. Even if it is cut and dry of a guy being guilty, it would take one awfully brave woman to bring a case like this to trial. Hard for me to knock her. Regardless of outcome of the trial. I feel for accuser a lot. I applaud her for being brave enough to take it this extent, regardless of who agrees or disagrees with this going to trial. I admit, right now I am shocked it has gone to trial with what we have seen and know so far.

 

[Jerry Punch]

The State is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't, regardless of the outcome of this case.

 

[Jerry Punch]

For you legal minds, how much influence does the accusers desire to have this case go to trial impact the decision to go to trial?

Initially and ordinarily, quite a bit.

On this particularly case, practically none, because of the social and political context; the firestorm inflamed by people like Pat Williams, Thomas Perez and crusading journalists desperately in search of a crusade.

The alleged victim can become the real victim -- but of the "State." If they threaten on high profile cases to not cooperate on pressing forward, the State can, and does, then threaten charges of filing a false report and perjury in order to obtain the alleged victim's "cooperation" -- charges they will not press if an actual trial and acquittal shows that there likely was a false report and a perjury.

And based on this movie I once saw, one of the lawyers "couldn't handle the truth." I am not certain which movie that was, but I think it helps explain the context of what is going on here in Missoula.

 

[Jerry Punch]

The penalty for such perjury will not be even close to enough considering the magnitude of the damage done.

Agreed. Blgs Griz Fan, we agreed with each other back and forth for the first time ever in a single day. :thumb:

 

[RobGriz]

The State is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't, regardless of the outcome of this case.

Only because they let the DOJ bully them into it. They could've told them to go to hell and given the trial so far that's exactly what they should have done.

 

[JBS]

I eagerly await the "not-guilty" verdict that this trial seems to be inexorably marching toward, if for no other reason than the crying and gnashing of teeth that will take place on bcn.

I may have to re-join for a few days just to enjoy it.

Since there is only about 11 people on BN, i think the total of teeth that could be gnashing is about 3. There will be buckets of tears, however.

Why?

Simple. You won't have anywhere to go. When his is aquitted, you will have to go back to your own silly little message board, because you are a cat and therefor unqualified to talk actual Griz football. What bothers me about you (or your persona...........?) is your claim of objectivity, when it is obvious to everyone that there is none. I am biased, um75 admitted his bias, and most others don't seem to hide thiers, one side or the other. You are exactly like TNT. Please go and prove me wrong. But your won't go, hence, bucket of tears. Simple.

 

[UMGriz75]

Am I the only person that feels like this Green roommate is inconsistent as f***??

Just when I think he's helping the accuser's story, Paoli gets him to change his story...

Paoli is the man as a defense attorney. So far every person on that stand has been reduced to having nothing to help the prosecution. The DR even left the stand with people thinking "I don't know/neutral" result.

The "feel" of this case has become almost surreal. The State has all these high-powered lawyers from the County, the State, and the private law firm seeking bad publicity by contributing pro bono
to help convict a star athlete charged with dubious charges, and THIS is what they have so far?

 

[Jerry Punch]

The State is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't, regardless of the outcome of this case.

Only because they let the DOJ bully them into it. They could've told them to go to hell and given the trial so far that's exactly what they should have done.

I don't know how it works with federal grants and earmarkes monies, but I think that the DOJ holds some power over the State, for right or for wrong. I definitely think they felt pressured, but no matter what FVV did, someone was going to be up his ass.