Idaho doesn't belong in 1AA, The Griz belong in 1A

[Anonymous]

OK we beat Idaho. Go Griz! We could probably win the Sun Belt, if not we'd give em' a run. And with Ochs coming aboard the next two years we could compete respectably in the Mountain West, MAC, or the WAC. Hell, this season we could beat Wyoming, San Diego State, San Jose State, Nevada, and Hawaii, should all these teams and 20 others I didn't mention all go back to 1AA? Let's get real people, we are playing down, they aren't playing up! I bet we'd give BYU, Colorado State, and Fresno State a good game.

We are respected by 1A fans about as much as we respect Div. II teams. 95% of people in the country couldn't tell you who won the 1AA National Championship. It's time for the kids to get to compete at the next level, if polled they would choose it. Wyoming is in a town of 26,000 and they compete in a very highly respected conference. They average 32,000 fans a game and have had some very good seasons. Marshall moved up and in their first year went 8-2 and got a bowl game. We can compete and the respect is high when you compete at the highest level. Marshall has been on two nationally televised prime time games this year. Those games had 2-3 times the viewership that the 1AA National Championship drew. Marshall is becoming nationally known.

Quit thinking small, how many people fought the jump to 1AA. Quite a few I'll bet. The Griz need to rise to the level they deserve. Anyway I think they should add 10-15,000 seats to the Stadium. It's getting too hard to get a ticket. Imagine 34,000 screaming Griz fans when Nebraska comes in for our half of a home and home 2 game schedule agreement. You think we're loud now. Oh! It would be fine. Win or lose.

If you can believe, you can achieve.

 

[TrueGriz]

Okay, guest, just send the money to the Griz Athletic department so they can afford the big stadium expansion okay. Also, will need to have a big donation to afford the extra scholarships and athletic programs and more money to keep the other athletic programs going.

Idaho's other athletic programs (like basketball) have declined quite a bit since the football program moved up due to having to plow ever more bucks into the football program. They are also going to have a very tough time staying in 1A in a couple of years because of the new restrictions. Idaho belongs in 1AA.

Montana may be able to compete with the bottom feeders of 1A just fine. But do not compare Marshall with the other former 1AA schools that moved up. They had a large stadium to start with, they are in a totally different recruiting market than Griz are recruiting wise, had a much larger donor and fan base than Griz, and Boise St also. Marshall was the ONLY former 1AA team to move up that was successful upon moving up. And don't think moving up to 1A is about money. 1A schools are paying $1,000,000.00 just to make $5,000.00 more money than 1AA schools, and Griz aren't even near the top school in 1AA in athletic budget. Quite a bit of the money for athletics get diverted to education also.

Reason Griz are doing so well is because it is very well managed with the limited resources that it has.

And plus 95% of the nation either doesn't even know who won the toilet bowl or cares who played in the toilet bowl that the Griz would play in.

If respect and recognition is your only reason to move up to 1A, then moving up to 1A into a BCS conference is the only choice. Let's see how many wins Griz would get then. And even thinking Nebraska would come to Missoula just shows me your in a dream world.


It sure would be nice to play at a higher level, but you better be rich to afford the higher ticket prices and higher GAA dues, and better hope Griz keep winning all the band wagon fans would be gone in a hurry. But right now, the only reason to move up to 1A is for pride only. That pride will carry a high ticket price at the box office and the GAA dues. They just raised GAA dues for the first time in 10 years. It is certainly going to be a shorter time for the next increase. Moving up to 1A will definitely create an increase, and there was quite a few complaints because of it.

Plus, I think you may be confused on exactly how many people are actually not able to get tickets here. 3 - 4000 seat expansion is most likely the next expansion. Any where beyond 3 - 4000 seats more and you get into adding a deck and that will be very costly and there isn't any sign yet that there are going to be enough fans to justify that kind of expansion.

There is no way that Griz will expand in a way that there will be empty seats. 34000 seat stadium would be 75% full. Doesn't look good at all, means they won't be able to increase ticket prices and GAA dues to pay for that expansion. Your in a dream world only worrying about your own pride.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, guest, just send the money to the Griz Athletic department so they can afford the big stadium expansion okay.

Every year I see a big donation of $1 million plus for some improvement to the stadium. Oh! Ye of so little faith and confidence.

They are also going to have a very tough time staying in 1A in a couple of years because of the new restrictions. Idaho belongs in 1AA.
Idaho belongs in 1AA.

We don't have the same problems that Idaho has ie the small stadium, no fan base etc. Once again you underestimate the University and the community.

Montana may be able to compete with the bottom feeders of 1A just fine. But do not compare Marshall with the other former 1AA schools that moved up. They had a large stadium to start with, they are in a totally different recruiting market than Griz are recruiting wise, had a much larger donor and fan base than Griz, and Boise St also.

Bottom feeders, what do you think the country thinks of 1AA. We are below the bottom feeders. You are a legend in your own mind. Montana vs Furman? FURMAN? Do you know how much interest that created outside Montana? Marshall comes from a city of 51,000 with a county population of 93,000. Our Missoula population within driving distance for shopping is somewhere in the neighborhood of 120-140,000. That fan base would expand as in Wyoming, Iowa, Nebraska, etc. etc. people come from all over the state for 1A games. No problem filling the stadium for games. Once again you underestimate our fans and our spirit for backing the Griz.

And plus 95% of the nation either doesn't even know who won the toilet bowl or cares who played in the toilet bowl that the Griz would play in.

The Griz get into one primetime TV game against a Big Ten school or Big 12 school and we are more famous and respected by the Country than winning 10 1AA Championships in a row.

If respect and recognition is your only reason to move up to 1A, then moving up to 1A into a BCS conference is the only choice.

Dude, everybody that plays sports is in it for the recognition and respect. You apparently never competed. Also when a JV Player gets good enough to play Varsity he doesn't stay back so he can dominate the JV guys. He moves up to test his meddle against the best. And as I read another poster say, "no one has ever dropped back to 1AA" Man that would be like us dropping back to Div. II. I say better to play a Moutain West School say BYU in the Whatever Bowl than Furman in the 1AA JV Championship.

With respect, you have a "can't do" attitude. There are many small communities and Universities with student populations around our size that have GREAT 1A PROGRAMS. We have something that Idaho and some others don't have, we won't have to fight a nearby Big Ten or Pac 10 school for our fans. We will be MONTANA'S TEAM. And the whole state will back us.

 

[Anonymous]

The "Guest" makes some very good points. While we occasionally have close games against IAA opponents, most teams we play don't even have a prayer when they play us. We have clearly outgown IAA, and with the arrival of Ochs and the maturation of all our young talent, I truly believe we will have one of the top 30 programs in the nation in the next couple years (and this is without the 22 extra scholarships we would get in IA). I like watching the Griz kick ass as much as the next guy, but how fun is it going to be week after week, watching the Griz run over their over-matched opponents in the first half and then watching the scrubs the entire second half. Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but it seems like this is where it's heading. If we can't go IA, I'd at least like to see us schedule some of the better IA teams in the region, even if we can't get a home-and-home with them.

 

[Anonymous]

I would rather see us stay in the IAA division. To hell with bowl games. Lame!

 

[TrueGriz]

Every year I see a big donation of $1 million plus for some improvement to the stadium. Oh! Ye of so little faith and confidence.

I guess you must work in the athletic department and know all this. but then you would be working with Hogan and be advising of him of this fact. Largest improvement to stadium was the Sprint turf. That was from a donation about 2 years ago. Where did last years and this years 1 million dollar donations go to? That would be 2 million dollars. The administration is looking into an expansion of 3 - 4000 extra seats. That would probably take the rest of the million that Edwards donated for the Sprint Turf, plus there will be a need for more money. Expansion that you are dreaming of will take up to $10 million dollars as it will need to be an upper deck. Real costly. So I think if that is to happen, you better be seeing more than just 1 million dollar donations each year.

They are also going to have a very tough time staying in 1A in a couple of years because of the new restrictions. Idaho belongs in 1AA.
Idaho belongs in 1AA.

We don't have the same problems that Idaho has ie the small stadium, no fan base etc. Once again you underestimate the University and the community.

My comment about Idaho was not to be construed as comparison of Montana's situation with Idaho's. Montana has a better chance to compete at 1A level than Idaho.

Bottom feeders, what do you think the country thinks of 1AA. We are below the bottom feeders. You are a legend in your own mind. Montana vs Furman? FURMAN? Do you know how much interest that created outside Montana? Marshall comes from a city of 51,000 with a county population of 93,000. Our Missoula population within driving distance for shopping is somewhere in the neighborhood of 120-140,000. That fan base would expand as in Wyoming, Iowa, Nebraska, etc. etc. people come from all over the state for 1A games. No problem filling the stadium for games. Once again you underestimate our fans and our spirit for backing the Griz.

No, I do not underestimate the SPIRIT. Spirit is there. But having the spirit to back the Griz and actually being able to do it are 2 separate things. Let us hope the stock market doesn't drive that spirit down.

Marshall is within driving distance of a much larger fan base than 120-140,000 people. For Montana to be successful, moving up to 1A will need to do it how Marshall did it. Accept as many 1A transfers, plus have to make a decision to move up at least 2 years in advance. That way you can recruit a lot of players that only look to go 1A. Have to be careful not to recruit to many. Hogan has complained that Marshall had to many scholarship players in 1996, thus championship should have been Montana's, but he didn't press for it and claim may have been unsubstantiated. But doing it may be risky now, because there are some restrictions going into place in 2004. San Jose State in the WAC I heard is going to give up football because of these restrictions. Sun Belt, I predict will not exist after a couple of seasons under these restrictions. Important for Griz to get into right conference.
In addition there has been talk of division 1A splitting between the BCS conferences and these so called bottom feeders. when that happens that is when I will probably change my position about moving up. The new restrictions coming into play in 2004 is just a start. It is restrictions that these big BCS conferences wanted to make it tough for these 1A wantabes. You just may see some 1A schools move down then. Just as likely, some schools giving up football(San Jose State).

The Griz get into one primetime TV game against a Big Ten school or Big 12 school and we are more famous and respected by the Country than winning 10 1AA Championships in a row.

Sounds like conjecture to me. Business wise, I wouldn't move up to 1A because of a chance of something like that happening. Very unlikely.

With respect, you have a "can't do" attitude. There are many small communities and Universities with student populations around our size that have GREAT 1A PROGRAMS. We have something that Idaho and some others don't have, we won't have to fight a nearby Big Ten or Pac 10 school for our fans. We will be MONTANA'S TEAM. And the whole state will back us.

Nope, it is more a realistic attitude. I know Griz can compete very well against the lower 1A teams successfully. Just do not see spending about $1,000,000.00 for a gain in $5,000.00 extra in revenue worth it. Plus, Student size doesn't have much bearing on Athletic Budgets. Most of those schools get better funding from the state level than UM. Yes, there are states who have a pride in the education they provide and like sports too. Unfortunately, Montana gov wants to take away. UM Athletics is going to have to survive on it's own. Like a club. And do not expect the whole state to back us as there are quite a few Bobcat fans.


PS. I do predict that Griz will move up to something within 10 years. Now is not the time. Griz do need to expand stadium and think the plan of 3-4000 extra seats plus improving the press box is a wise decision for now. If Griz win championship this year, that would really be wise. I mean, why attendance is doing so great is because of Griz winning 1AA National championships. Not Bowl games. Heck, fans aren't watching the team because of some high powered offensive attack. The offense really isn't that exciting to watch. Especially when compared to Dave Dickenson Days. But the defense is exciting to watch, but offense and winning puts fans in the seats. And winning is the biggest reason for this large turnout at the turnstile. Ruin that recipe and your flirting with losing some of that. So I am more in favor of the conservative route. Boise St, it jumped up immediately. Took a few years to become competitive and yet after an 8 - 4 record in the conference you call respectable, no bowl game. Nevada did the same thing and they are still mediocre at best.

 

[ronbo]

I enjoyed the blowout win at Weber last night, although our win over the Div. 1A team was so much more exciting.

I totally agree with you that we should do it right. I have heard that we do have an AD that would like to be 1A in all sports. And no I don't know him or work with him. Your plan to announce two years early and start recruiting good palyers is a good one.

I think we should also start wooing the Mountain West as that is the Conference that would be the best fit geographically. It is a tough conference, but if Wyoming can compete so can we. The WAC would be OK too.

Yes I believe it's in the cards. The BCS will force the issue, but I think it's closer than 10 years away. That's why the better competition 1AA schools are jumping now, they're getting a head start and will dominate the lower 1A divsion early on.

 

[Anonymous]

How could it be any better than what we have? We play the majority of our games at home with a full stadium of excited fans. The GRIZ are hugely successful at playing the great game of football -- four National Championship games in the last seven years. We have the best team and the best fans and the best stadium and the best spirit and the best tailgates and the best of everything else I can think of. About 2,600 GRIZ fans travel to Long Island to see our team play. Thousands go to Moscow, Idaho, and make more noise than I-A Idaho. GRIZ football has become THE social event in Montana. And you want to experiment? Whom do you want to impress? National recognition and prestige just don't cut it. It's OUR fans that are important, nothing else -- we don't have to impress some schmoe in North Carolina. We don't have an inferiority complex. Get real! I'll take the glow we have now and being best rather than risking losing everything. GO GRIZ!!!

 

[ronbo]

There is something going on that we don't know about. Why would the other schools be jumping to 1A when they have the same situation as us?

It's also not about prestige and recognition only. It's about being the best you can be. That is important in sports. If you're beating up on everyone in 1AA and you're playing 1A to the gun for an exciting win, then where do you think you should be playing? Come on, let's get 50 wins in a row and establish a 1AA record that will never be broken and then let's get on with it. You need to get real, you're being selfish and you are spoiled and have become scared of losing.

I disagree with you about the fans. If we played Idaho at 1A level we'd still have 2600 fans there out screaming the Idaho fans. And if Colorado State came in for a home game, are you telling me they wouldn't be able to fill the stadium with excited fans. The tickets would sell out 10 weeks in advance!

The players are equally as important as the fans. If you ask any one of them where they would love to compete win or lose they would choose the best competition 1A. I saw the excitment of the players when they beat Idaho, they were all over the field celebrating. And coach Glenn had to have the smile removed with a jackhammer. Last night I saw well we won another one, next.

 

[TrueGriz]

Ronbo, quite a few 1AA teams moved up to 1A for the money. Troy State did. They host 1AA teams, or very low 1A teams that do not require huge guarantees, and then go on the road for the big pay day against a BCS team. That is how quite a few lower level 1A teams are able to stay in 1A.

Come 2004, that is going to come to an end as then each 1A team will have to play at least 5 home games against 1A. Thus, they will have to start spending larger guarantees to play at home. For those teams to stay in 1A, I bet you that more and more of these will schedule fewer home games. That will be unfortunate situation for the fans.

In addition, the new restrictions may cause for the first time a move by a 1A team back down to 1AA. Idaho may be forced down. Some of their own fans have stated that fact on this board.

Montana has the fan base, no doubt about that. They may be able to get the money. Heck, on the unoficial grizzly message board I ranted how possible it would be to go to 1A because of all the additional advertising dollars they were getting until somebody came on and pretty much said it was all a wash.

But, because of these restrictions, there is a good possibility of instability at the lower level of 1A. I do not call that a good time to move up quite yet. Plus, haven't heard anything that dividing 1A up is out either.

So, I am for better competition. But also, I am not a big believer of 1A football either. Bowl committees are to powerful and in my opinion, corrupt. Money dictates everything in 1A. 1AA, while money is an issue, not as big of an issue as it is in 1A.

 

[Anonymous]

gee this topic never gets talked about enough.
I'm still waiting for answers on how the UM would
fulfill title IX requirements IF they were to go 1-a.
Idaho is still having a hard time trying to reach that level and
haven't yet. Boise is in the same boat, but better.
hogan has stated that untill there is 1-a re-alignment the Griz will remain 1-aa as long as he is AD. So i suppose we could rant and rave for or against 1-a all we want but it does no good. I'm just surprised City, i mean ronbo isn't tired of the subject. :lol:
Besides playoffs are way better than bowl games.
If/when 1-a re-aligns and has the BCS division and then 1-a below it UM will be in that second tier division, and those buggers better have a playoff!!! :evil:

 

[Anonymous]

The people that talk about moving to I-A are clueless. With the level of resources Montana has, moving to I-A would be suicide. Grizzly athletics is expensive enough as it is. I'm not willing to pay for the huge increases in ticket prices and booster dues that would be needed to field a competitive I-A team. And I don't want to see the Griz play a bunch of body bag games to pay the bills either. Troy State has 3 home games this year. San Jose St. has only 4.

I-AA is the right level for Montana.

 

[ronbo]

Playoff schmayoff, you can really argue that 16 games are too many to put the boys through. They are in college to get an education not be your fall entertainment because you'd be bored to death without it. 12 games are plenty. And in the right league there is no reason the Griz couldn't have 6 home games. Six home games against BYU, San Diego State, Fresno State, Hawaii, Wyoming, Utah, and other teams of this caliper would be more valuable and entertaining than 10 home games against N. Colorado, Southern Utah, Albany, Sacramento State, Cal Poly, and all the other Big Sky Teams, and the joke playoff teams that will come in and get shellacked by us this Nov-Dec.

Are you guys the same ones that fought the Team Color change from that GOD AWFUL burnt orange???

 

[TrueGriz]

6 home games against 1A schools including Hawaii? I would rather go on the road to Hawaii. So instead of paying only about $100,000 for guarantee to bring a 1AA team into Missoula, Griz will have to scrounge up another $50,000 and higher for each visiting team. Yeehaw, can't wait to pay the higher GAA dues and ticket prices.

Nothing can bring attendance down faster than going over the point where ticket costs outstrip demand. Unfortunately, even if Griz stay at 1AA, ticket prices are going to go up, but that is due to demand increasing. Moving up to 1A, ticket prices will go up due to higer costs, not due to demand. Demand will go down. This may lead to hyper inflationary pressures and can spell big problems with the athletic program.

Like I said, got to wait for the right time. That 10 year estimate may just be more accurate than you think. Griz will need to expand the stadium greater than the 3-4000 seat expansion that they are discussing now. And they won't do that unless they know the fans will come. So they will expand by 3-4000 seats and will have to evaluate that for 2 to 5 years. If demand does exist, they may expand to having an upper deck. That will be very expensive and may doom an athletic program to high debt payments and when stock market is dropping the way it is, companies reorganizing, laying people off, the athletic department has to study the issue very carefully.

May sound "can't do", but I would rather be on the side of caution, then end up moving up like Idaho, Boise State, and Nevada and then find that the Athletic Department is stretched to the limit to maintain the football program at 1A.
I did mention Idaho's problem with the quality of their other programs after they went to 1A. Boise State and Nevada are in the same boat. Boise State had pretty darn good basketball teams, both men's and womens. Nevada had good mens basketball, but it's pretty mediocre.

I would rather keep a good well rounded athletic program than one where one sport rules and the others are just there for that one sport to maintain a level it doesn't have to be at to provide school pride.

So again, this isn't the right time. 10 years from now, 1AA may be abandoned anyway when they split 1A up. Or the 1AA playoff system becomes to costly and 1AA drops playoff system for a bowl system. 1AA playoffs haven't been making a profit by any means at all. They have started to regionalize the playoffs last year, partly due to 9/11 but also to cut down on the travel costs. I expect this to be more of the case as playoff costs increase. If 1AA abandons playoffs as it is now, I do believe more people will be for moving up. Not now though.

 

[ronbo]

Well either way it works out I'm sure everyone here on this board will be behind the Griz 100%.

You've all made good points.

I just wonder who we'll replace Portland State with. They'll be the next to jump. Then maybe Sac State, they have 26,000 students and a city of 1,000,000. I hear the North Dakota schools are jumping to 1AA and Northern Colorado. It'll be just Div. II football again soon. We can kick ass for the next 20 years and go for 300 in a row!

 

[Shakermaker]

Well either way it works out I'm sure everyone here on this board will be behind the Griz 100%.

You've all made good points.

I just wonder who we'll replace Portland State with. They'll be the next to jump. Then maybe Sac State, they have 26,000 students and a city of 1,000,000. I hear the North Dakota schools are jumping to 1AA and Northern Colorado. It'll be just Div. II football again soon. We can kick ass for the next 20 years and go for 300 in a row!

Only NDSU is making the jump in ND. UND... a no go.