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Historical BS

S

SaskGriz

Well-known member
DONOR
Someone in one of the football posts about thanking service personal mentioned the US civil war jokingly and this has always struck me;

You ever stop to think that US is the only industrialised country in the world that had to fight a civil war over whether buying/selling human beings was cool or not? Every other country just sort of bitched and moaned but then went "yeah fair enough, you can't own people". Not the US though, had to lose 750,000 dead to sort that one out.
 
I don't know, having the perspective of someone outside the US is kind of telling; it's sometimes hard to see yourself clearly, but from a distance things may come into focus a bit better.

And what, exactly, did Sask say in that post that isn't true? (and heartbreakingly sad, by the way?)
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
Is this like an American, and I am assuming white American, chiming in on how Canadians and Inuit people should feel about the term "eskimo"?
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No, it's like a Canadian, and I'm assuming white Canadian, chiming in on eGriz about his opinion about how Americans of 165 years ago should have felt about the issues of their time.

To be brief, Canadians can do what they want to do, they have their opinions, I have mine.
 
3-7-77 said:
No, it's like a Canadian, and I'm assuming white Canadian, chiming in on eGriz about his opinion about how Americans of 165 years ago should have felt about the issues of their time.

To be brief, Canadians can do what they want to do, they have their opinions, I have mine.
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You wave wherever the wind takes you.
 
If I like the direction of the wind, yeah. I'll fly 'The American Flag' or 'The Stars and Bars,' or, maybe the 'Don't Tread On Me' flag, or even 🏴‍☠️.
 
SaskGriz said:
Someone in one of the football posts about thanking service personal mentioned the US civil war jokingly and this has always struck me;

You ever stop to think that US is the only industrialised country in the world that had to fight a civil war over whether buying/selling human beings was cool or not? Every other country just sort of bitched and moaned but then went "yeah fair enough, you can't own people". Not the US though, had to lose 750,000 dead to sort that one out.
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The Nation was born on the idea of Freedom.

It was not a country - it was independent, sovereign colonies.

The US Civil War started well before the 1860s...the Independence movement was very, very tenuous based on the slavery issue. It's a miracle we are now a United States.

The Civil War, as unfortunate as it was...was required to complete the formation of the greatest and most free nation in the history of mankind.
 
SoldierGriz said:
The Nation was born on the idea of Freedom.

It was not a country - it was independent, sovereign colonies.

The US Civil War started well before the 1860s...the Independence movement was very, very tenuous based on the slavery issue. It's a miracle we are now a United States.

The Civil War, as unfortunate as it was...was required to complete the formation of the greatest and most free nation in the history of mankind.
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The winner writes history. The South didn't have much of a chance, but IMHO was right in secession. It was a War of Northern Aggression. I doubt the South, after the War and Radical Reconstruction, would agree with the 'free nation' view.
 
3-7-77 said:
The winner writes history. The South didn't have much of a chance, but IMHO was right in secession. It was a War of Northern Aggression. I doubt the South, after the War and Radical Reconstruction, would agree with the 'free nation' view.
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Your view makes my point...the fact we are a United States...is a miracle.
 
SaskGriz said:
Someone in one of the football posts about thanking service personal mentioned the US civil war jokingly and this has always struck me;

You ever stop to think that US is the only industrialised country in the world that had to fight a civil war over whether buying/selling human beings was cool or not? Every other country just sort of bitched and moaned but then went "yeah fair enough, you can't own people". Not the US though, had to lose 750,000 dead to sort that one out.
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The American Civil War was about more than just slavery. Also, about economics.

From National Park Service site:

"The Civil War grew out of longstanding tensions and disagreements about American life and politics. For more than 80 years, people in the Northern and Southern states had been debating the issues that ultimately led to war: economic policies and practices, cultural values, the extent and reach of the Federal government, and, most importantly, the role of slavery within American society.

Against the backdrop of these larger issues, individual soldiers had their own reasons for fighting. Their motivations often included a complex mix of personal, social, economic and political values that didn't necessarily match the aims expressed by their respective governments."

From another site:

"My policy sought only to collect the Revenue (a 40 percent federal sales tax on imports to Southern States under the Morrill Tariff Act of 1861)." reads paragraph 5 of Lincoln's First Message to the U.S. Congress, penned July 4, 1861.

"I have no purpose, directly or in-directly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so," Lincoln said it his first inaugural on March 4 of the same year."

While sites vary, it looks like the South was heavily taxed with tariffs, and probably disproportionately.

Of course, slavery was a big part of the Civil War, from what I have read.
 
Although Fort Sumpter is where the first shot was fired, those in the know, know that Charleston was spared the fate of Atlanta, when the local folks paid to be spared. The amount of granite (70,000 tons) barged to that location from New England, to build the island upon which to build the protective fort, is staggering. The national debt could literally be solved by digging it up, cutting it up, and selling it for kitchen countertops.
 
mthoopsfan said:
The American Civil War was about more than just slavery. Also, about economics.

From National Park Service site:

"The Civil War grew out of longstanding tensions and disagreements about American life and politics. For more than 80 years, people in the Northern and Southern states had been debating the issues that ultimately led to war: economic policies and practices, cultural values, the extent and reach of the Federal government, and, most importantly, the role of slavery within American society.

Against the backdrop of these larger issues, individual soldiers had their own reasons for fighting. Their motivations often included a complex mix of personal, social, economic and political values that didn't necessarily match the aims expressed by their respective governments."

From another site:

"My policy sought only to collect the Revenue (a 40 percent federal sales tax on imports to Southern States under the Morrill Tariff Act of 1861)." reads paragraph 5 of Lincoln's First Message to the U.S. Congress, penned July 4, 1861.

"I have no purpose, directly or in-directly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so," Lincoln said it his first inaugural on March 4 of the same year."

While sites vary, it looks like the South was heavily taxed with tariffs, and probably disproportionately.

Of course, slavery was a big part of the Civil War, from what I have read.
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"A nation who does not remember what it was yesterday does not know where it is today." -- Robert E. Lee(2nd in his Class of 1829 at West Point, later Superintendent at West Point, amongst numerous other accolades).

The tariffs. Paid predominantly by the South, revenues were spent, by and large, on Northern infrastructure and general benefit. A BIG reason to get the hell out of the Union. It was proposed that Charleston would lower the tariff to about a tenth of what the Feds charged, thereby opening up for business which would have gone to the NE Ports(NY, Boston, Philly), wiping out a large revenue source for the North. Fort Sumter(correct spelling)was there to enforce the Feds control, located now in the heart of the Confederacy.


Its hopeless, hoops. I've made the same attempts to educate this ignorant rabble about the causes for the War of Northern Aggression, but they refuse to acknowledge simple facts. I, too, have cited my sources, but many are just too brainwashed fools, or just ordinary cretins, out there in eGriz-land. Here, again, is a good source: 'When In the Course Of Human Events,' by Charles Adams.

'You can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink.'
 
SaskGriz said:
I don't know, he's really good at apologising for things that happened 150 years ago and kotowing to the Chinese. ;) What else could one hope for in a leader? LOL
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What happened in 1874? Honest question. Perhaps you refer the Indian Act of 1876?(I had to look it up)
 
3-7-77 said:
"A nation who does not remember what it was yesterday does not know where it is today." -- Robert E. Lee(2nd in his Class of 1829 at West Point, later Superintendent at West Point, amongst numerous other accolades).

The tariffs. Paid predominantly by the South, revenues were spent, by and large, on Northern infrastructure and general benefit. A BIG reason to get the hell out of the Union. It was proposed that Charleston would lower the tariff to about a tenth of what the Feds charged, thereby opening up for business which would have gone to the NE Ports(NY, Boston, Philly), wiping out a large revenue source for the North. Fort Sumter(correct spelling)was there to enforce the Feds control, located now in the heart of the Confederacy.


Its hopeless, hoops. I've made the same attempts to educate this ignorant rabble about the causes for the War of Northern Aggression, but they refuse to acknowledge simple facts. I, too, have cited my sources, but many are just too brainwashed fools, or just ordinary cretins, out there in eGriz-land. Here, again, is a good source: 'When In the Course Of Human Events,' by Charles Adams.

'You can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink.'
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Good catch. Damn lazy pinky. BTW the Fort was built to guard the port after the British infiltration during the war of 1812. It may later have been used for the purpose of federal (northern) control over the south but that is not the reason for its genesis.
 
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