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have the warriors re-defined basketball?

C

citygriz

Well-known member
so once again, ole' charles barkley, the guy who doesn't know the difference between indianapolis and annapolis, the guy who was wrong about yao ming and wrong about eric garner, and is completely wrong about golf, is now embarrassingly wrong about the golden state warriors. charles represents the old doctrinaire code of basketball, that it is only muscle that wins championships, not "jump-shooters." only to have the high-octane warriors blow through the playoffs almost as easily as they blew through the regular season, with steph curry obliterating by 40(!) reggie miller's playoff record for treys.

so: have the warriors re-defined basketball?

my answer: the warriors, yes; the rest of basketball, no. for the simple reason, it will be almost impossible to duplicate not only the shooting ability of the warriors, but their versatility and their depth. the warriors have a unique formula, and while it isn't secret, it will be as hard to duplicate as the formula for Coca-Cola.

and any lessons here for our griz? let's match decuire's philosophy up against that of the warriors.
--defense. the "splash brothers" may have got the headlines, but it was the defense that won it all for the warriors, not only stifling opponents at key moments, but creating turnovers that ignited the offense. decuire: ditto. great attention to defense. we're in good shape here.
--three-point shooting. when you have great shooters, the three-point line can more than offset the presence of a dominant center, such that if you're a mid-major that has trouble recruiting good bigs, great shooters can level the playing field. montana: jury out on this one. gfeller shows promise as a shooter, yet has been way too streaky. walter wright and michael oguine, don't know what they bring. i personally do not think oguine will be a great shooter early in his career. probably lost our most consistent three-point shooter in jordan gregory. in addition to the splash brothers, the warriors have a big in draymond green that is a three-point threat. let's hope breunig has added that dimension to his game.
--depth. off the bench the warriors brought david lee and andre iguadala, two ex-all-stars, plus the efficient shaun livingston, and the rising-star big man, festus ezeli. not to mention marreese speights and leandro barbosa, both of whom played key roles in several games. that's an eleven-deep roster. the griz: i like out potential depth, especially if oguine can contribute as a freshman and jermaine edwards returns. we can easily go 11 deep, with the last guy off the bench, jack lopez, now capable of playing key minutes. i think our depth will be a huge asset this year.
--handles: curry. while his long-range shooting is incredible, so too are his ball-handling and passing skills. if they counted "hockey assists" in basketball--the guy who makes the pass to the guy who gets the assist--curry's stats would be off the chart. montana: we lost our best ball-handler in gregory; let's hope walter wright has the great handle. i don't see anybody else on this team that can step into that role--and it's crucial if you're going to play small ball.
conclusion: a promising year ahead for our griz. i like our defense and i like our depth. hope we improve our deep shooting, and that walter wright is the playmaker we need.
 
Citay the nice thing with the style the Warriors have taken to new levels, is it helps make up for the lack of a truly dominating big man. I will always be a fan of a big man who rebounds well, and shuts down the paint (Brian Qvale was that man for the GRIZ). Unfortunately, quality big men are hard to find, and very few and far between in today's game.

As for the GRIZ players you mentioned. Yes, Breunig is adding perimeter shooting and ball handling to his game. I watched him do shooting drills for close to 90 minutes last weekend in the WAG. His mid range shot is money now. His 3 point shot is inconsistent, but I did see him drain several in a row when he got warmed up.

Gfeller has been working on his ball handling and creating shots for himself. He will be a multi level scoring threat this season.

Walter Wright is a playmaker capable of taking a game over with his scoring and/or setting up his teammates. Mario Dunn is a capable ball handler too, and likely will continue to improve his perimeter shooting. Riley Bradshaw will continue to improve overall as a player. The 2nd half of last season he was a big contributor in the rotation. There is no reason to not believe he will be better. Like Wright, the staff is high on Oguine and they expect him to be one of the better freshman guards in the region. I expect his progress to be similar to Cherry, Jamar, and Dunn in the way he is brought a long as a freshman. Edmonds has a ton of talent, filled with potential, unfortunately without much desire to play defense and academics. Let me put it this way, don't expect his name to be prevalent at all for the GRIZ. Do not be counting on him or expecting anything from him as a GRIZ.

I did not see DeJong this summer, but can tell you that Boehning is fit, and looks like he can run the floor well for a guy his size. I hear DeJong will be very comfortable in a fast paced game as well. I do know he is damn athletic. DeCuire wants to play a quicker pace than the GRIZ played last season. Defense will be the staple for this year's team. Defense was something Travis emphasized from the get go last season. Those who struggle to defend for whatever reason will have trouble finding consistent minutes (see Chris Kemp from last season).

I think the GRIZ will likely look to score 80 PPG. How quickly they can find the consistency to do that? Your guess is as good as mine.
 
re: Edmonds--ouch! I did not know that. But that was surely a dunderhead play, running out on the court against Weber. Do you mean he won't be around at all--or just won't play much? Is a decision pending? Is this a personal observation, or based on "sources?"

I've always loved Dunn's quicks but not his handle. Hope he's improved.

I expect Oguine to have an impact as well.

I have other things to do with my life than count down the days, day by ad nauseum day, to the start of basketball season, but I am looking forward to this year. I think we're gonna surprise a couple of biggies on our schedule, just as we would have last year had we made our free throws.
 
There will be news in time regarding Edmonds.

Dunn has the handles. His problem is a few mental lapses with the ball each game, at the worse times. An lazy pass here, and a swipe from behind there. Then again, those kind of mistakes and inconsistencies are common for an underclassman PG. Wright will be relieving him with much of the ball handling and ball distribution.
 
Don't wish to speculate too much on a young man whose academic and athletic future may be affected. I DO know that Griz coaches invested a great deal of time and energy (not to mention patience) with the young man and had earlier in the season spoken with optimism about his commitment to the program.

Conversely, the situation hinted at by MtGrizRule seems to explain the evidence of continued active recruitment by the Griz for either a transfer with immediate eligibility or a younger jc player (one who would enter the UM program with three years of eligibility).
 
Edmonds actually has done decent in school to end the semester and is making progress. Always nice to see a poster with no info downgrade a kid who is putting forth effort to better himself. Edmonds was also promoted by JG for his ability to guard and drive to shut players down in practice. So ya know....not everything you hear is truthful.
 
grizzlyjournal said:
Don't wish to speculate too much on a young man whose academic and athletic future may be affected. I DO know that Griz coaches invested a great deal of time and energy (not to mention patience) with the young man and had earlier in the season spoken with optimism about his commitment to the program.

Conversely, the situation hinted at by MtGrizRule seems to explain the evidence of continued active recruitment by the Griz for either a transfer with immediate eligibility or a younger jc player (one who would enter the UM program with three years of eligibility).
Click to expand...
Of course, even with Edmonds, the Griz are at twelve scholarship players (presumably). Thus, it makes sense that they would still be recruiting for the upcoming season.
 
mtgrizfankb said:
Edmonds actually has done decent in school to end the semester and is making progress. Always nice to see a poster with no info downgrade a kid who is putting forth effort to better himself. Edmonds was also promoted by JG for his ability to guard and drive to shut players down in practice. So ya know....not everything you hear is truthful.
Click to expand...

We will see how the Edmonds deal plays out. Chances are very likely what I have posted will play out. I cannot say anymore about it than I already have. People wonder why more is not posted by those who do get good information? It is because, either way there are idiots and jerks who will question it until they see something "official". Tell you what, "BIG IF", he is back on scholarship this year. I have no problem apologizing. However, when my information turns out to be correct, you quit questioning my information, and apologize for being an ass regarding the information I posted. By the way, I do have very reliable info on this, and have not/did not downgrade Edmonds.

I admit, I've been wrong 1 time on GRIZ basketball regarding personnel. That was when I was told Cherry would be lost for the season when he injured himself again. Fortunately, his injury was not as bad as originally thought, and he returned to play that year. The only thing I got wrong then was the extent of how long he would be out.

In this case, you will likely be eating crow. :thumb: Rather than you questioning me, why not you or someone else go down to the basketball offices or check out the summer evening pick up games in the WAG (7PM is a good time to be there most week nights after mid July) and inquire yourself to coaches and/or players. I heard my information without even asking about Edmonds. I heard it when I asked about filling Nwosu's sport with another scholarship player. Edmonds name and situation was then told to me. Oh by the way, if you cannot wait for everyone to be back this summer, Dunn, Bradshaw, Breunig, Boehning, are already back for the summer working on their games. They can be easily found working on their games in the WAG or Dahlberg throughout most any summer week day. I've more than given anyone here information to inquire on your own free will. It is up to you to see if you can get the information. If not, then you will be waiting for official word when he is not listed on the roster, or there is an announcement. :thumb:
 
You realize that the Spurs won the championship last year (and should have won it the year prior) using a similar style of ball, right?
 
I don't see that there are ANY "idiots or jerks" who have posted in THIS thread, at least.

I just hope that things work out favorably for the Griz player in question. I, personally, would like to see him in uniform come the first day of hoops practice.

And, yes, GrizWhiz... there already IS a schollie opening on the Montana roster. That being the case, it is very late in the calendar year to have two roster openings. Good to know, at least, that the remainder of the roster appears solid and balanced (though I still see some depth problems at wing and power forward... depending on where Breunig is anchored, of course).
 
PeauxRouge said:
You realize that the Spurs won the championship last year (and should have won it the year prior) using a similar style of ball, right?
Click to expand...

Similar in ball movement, yes. But different in two key ways.
--Size: When I think of the Spurs I think of the best big man of our era, Tim Duncan. Then Tiago Splitter, setting those slobber-knocking screens. Even Diaw at 6'8" and 250 pounds. One of the best front lines in basketball. It was a similarly big front line that was giving the Warriors so much trouble the first three games of the series, as Mosgov was completely outplaying Andrew Bogut. Game four, the Warriors went small--I mean really small...short, and light. Draymond Green at 6'7" took on Mosgov. The tallest player on the floor for the Warriors was Harrison Barnes at 6'8". And these guys are whippets, not bulky post types. Cavs go up 8-0, and my Cleveland buddy texts me, "You worried?" Damn right! But Kerr stuck with it, the complete opposite prescription of a Charles Barkley, and the Warriors ran the Cavs into the ground. I likened this series to the rope-a-dope fight, with Lebron playing the role of big bad invincible George Foreman, and the Warriors in the role of Ali--lighter, faster, quicker. Old George says he knew he before the final knockout he was going down, and I had that seem feeling about Lebron in game 6. Great numbers, but he just seemed worn out.
--Three Point Shooting: I mean, c'mon! No team in the three-point era has shot three's like the Warriors--taken as many, made as many, shot a higher percentage. Not only the splash brothers, but Draymond Green developed a reliable three-point shot, and Harrison Barnes was deadly from one spot in the corner. If you can make three's, it's just killer for your opponents. Not even a twenty point lead was safe against the Warriors this year, they could wipe that out in a few minutes, as they did in the playoffs against the Pelicans. And when you have to defend the three point line--or beyond in the case of Curry--you really open up the floor for the rest of your offense. In this, I think the Warriors are re-defining the game. As we approach the draft on Thursday, you're already hearing the new fashionable skill that teams are looking for, shooter.

As for the Spurs, I take it as one of the great breaks the Warriors got this post-season that the Clips took down the Spurs, sparing the Warriors their most worrisome matchup. Small ball would not have worked against the Spurs with their great front line, and that will be one of the fun matchups to watch next year.

Meantime, I haven't enjoyed watching basketball as much since Showtime. As Mark Jackson said during one of the telecasts, basketball is a beautiful game when it's played the right way.
 
Agree, the NBA is actually improving quite a bit. I've been on league pass the last four or five years and there are a lot of fun teams to watch right now.
 
It's a talent driven league. Playing small won this year, but when Anthony Davis wins a title, everyone will be saying the big man is back. You have to have talent regardless of position, and then play a style that fits that personnel.
 
well said. and each team, like each individual, has to play to its own unique strengths. the warriors have theirs, and this year they prevailed. other teams have other strengths, and in other years they will prevail. we secretly mock kids for wanting to be lebron james, because we know they can never be lebron james, yet other teams think they can be just like the warriors. they cannot. it's a hard lesson to learn, but it's the most important lesson to learn, team, or individual.
 
Not really sure that they have re-defined basketball. I think they just showed that the ability to actually shoot the basketball can win games. I would be very happy if more players at the younger ages started to emphasize shooting again. They actually showed the importance of not only hitting the 3, but the importance of the mid range jump shot. The game has been evolving into a guard driven game for years. Big men don't work with their back to basket very much anymore and with the shortening of the college shot clock, it will happen even less. Big men that are more athletic and can play facing the basket from 10 feet out are more valuable.
 
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