BelierPeaux
Well-known member
AllWeatherFan said:
Yes, he or Steward.
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Griz vs Badgers
- Thread starter Jaredkuehn
- Start date
Yes, he or Steward.
Badger fans beware, a lot of Griz fans like to get carried away some times. The majority of us understand that we are underdogs. That being said, I was very happy with the draw when I saw Wisconsin. A team that isn't going to athletically or size wise overpower us. We are capable of winning this game if we don't get lulled into a half court offense with no transition game.
SWeberCat02
Well-known member
Give em hell Griz
Tokyogriz
Well-known member
G-BEARS said:
When has a big sky school ever NOT been an underdog going into the Tourney? Everyone knows we are mate. That said underdogs dont always lose nor do they go into a game Expecting to lose!
This team is hot right now. They have as good a chance as going deep into this tourney as any big sky team has in the past IMO.
badgerfan43
Member
Transition game is one thing we don't allow. Instead of staying on the offensive end to try and grab offensive boards, our players will retreat back and start playing defense immediately. This is also why our offensive rebounding numbers are low.G-BEARS said:
Tokyogriz said:G-BEARS said:
When has a big sky school ever NOT been an underdog going into the Tourney? Everyone knows we are mate. That said underdogs dont always lose nor do they go into a game Expecting to lose!
This team is hot right now. They have as good a chance as going deep into this tourney as any big sky team has in the past IMO.
Just saying a lot of people on this board get carried away a little too quickly and start talking us up as if we're an even match up or better than them. If we played Wisconsin 20 times they would win the majority, hands down. That being said, we are talented and in college basketball any team can pull off the upset. And I'm confident we will!
wanderinggriz
Member
AllWeatherFan said:
This^^^^as Taylor could muscle Will and shoot free throw line jumpers all day and he makes them more often than not.
The Griz will need to shoot lights out, can our zone prevent the badgers bigs from popping the 3 ball over our shorter defenders save Selvig? Can Art and Kareem board with badger bigs. The Griz will need to move the ball when they have it, Ward won't be able to get his jumper off when covered by their bigs, he is shorter and his mobiity isn't any better than their guys who have inches on him.
I'm giving us a ten percent chance to win , call it twenty five if Wisco goes cold from 3. We will know in a few days.
SeaGrizluvr
Well-known member
I wonder if any of the Badger posters are actually Wisconsin coaches trying to get insight into the Griz. :shock: 
wanderinggriz
Member
badger007 said:
And they lost to us by about 35 in the last 10 days. November is yesterday's news and we are playing well as a team right now and could beat any of those teams at this point. The badgers are deeper and that is what I think will get you the W in this game, but if you don't shoot well all bets are off. :thumb:
A common theme Badger fans see each year when these match-ups are announced is other teams that know nothing about UW think its a great matchup for their team. I can understand that, what with the low scores and the fact that UW doesn't have a bunch of obvious NBA talent, and we are not going to out-athlete anyone, but its a very misguided belief.
If you look at the games from this year that we lost all but the Iowa games were to top ten teams, and we were in all of them in the last minute, except the second MSU and the Mich game (UNC by 3 @UNC, MSU by 3 in overtime, OSU, MARQ by 6, and Mich). What about those Iowa games, you might ask? Yeah they were bad losses, but that is a huge rivalry with some mitigating circumstances. We went 3-27 from 3 in the first game and they had a guy (Gatens) go off for 33 while hitting 12 straight 3's in the second one. If either of those things happen I would expect a Montana win, but I wouldn't count on that kind of performance from UW again.
The point being that this is a very good UW team despite what ESPN, and some unwatchable scoring droughts, say. We have gone toe-to-toe with the big boys this year and more then held our own. LBSU is a nice mid major but who else have you played on this 14 game streak? Anyone above 150 in the RPI? I don't say that to flame just for a little perspective.
It sounds like this Griz team (who I admittedly know nothing about other then Freddie is one of your coaches) plays pressure D and relies on steals and a transition game to make up for the lack of rebounding and inside scoring. Ouch. That is exactly what Badger fans like to see. If you can't grab boards against the Badgers it is VERY hard to beat us, as we don't turn the ball over and we very rarely take those poor, quick shots that lead to fast breaks.
I realize how arrogant this sounds but you are not going to speed up the game. Sorry, its just not going to happen. We play at our pace and not Cherry, (or UNC/DUKE/MSU/OSU/Texas/Ect.) can do anything to change it. That is Bo Ryan basketball in a nutshell, impose your style on the game and make the other team beat you at our pace. Many teams have tried to speed up Bo's Badgers, less then 5 have ever done it and they were all top 5 teams with multiple NBA starters on them. (UNC 05, UCONN 08, MARQ in 06 or so, OSU last year (who we also beat last year in the first match-up. In the second Ohio State set NCAA Division I records by making 14 of 15 3-pointers (93.3 percent) and hitting 14 in a row in that game, so I don't know how much of that was pace, more like a once in a life time performance.)
I expect the Griz to bring it early before UW's size and depth wear them down for a relatively easy 10-15 point UW win. Unless Cherry has the game of his life and goes for 35 or the Badgers go on one of their 19 minute scoring droughts like we did against MSU, this is a bad matchup for Montana. UW will not overlook you and think that we can just roll the ball out there and win. We are long on the perimeter and Berggren is surprisingly athletic at the 5. Bottom line, its a huge advantage for UW down low and in a half-court game that will be the difference. Good luck Grizzlies, hope its a great game.
PS reading it back it sounds a bit like a big school fan dismissing a solid team. Thats not how I intend it. We just hear the same arguments every year when we play a good mid major early in the tourney. It gets old always being the BCS school picked for an upset, especially when we have gone 9-1 in the last ten first rounds. No offense intended Griz fans, just my two cents.
If you look at the games from this year that we lost all but the Iowa games were to top ten teams, and we were in all of them in the last minute, except the second MSU and the Mich game (UNC by 3 @UNC, MSU by 3 in overtime, OSU, MARQ by 6, and Mich). What about those Iowa games, you might ask? Yeah they were bad losses, but that is a huge rivalry with some mitigating circumstances. We went 3-27 from 3 in the first game and they had a guy (Gatens) go off for 33 while hitting 12 straight 3's in the second one. If either of those things happen I would expect a Montana win, but I wouldn't count on that kind of performance from UW again.
The point being that this is a very good UW team despite what ESPN, and some unwatchable scoring droughts, say. We have gone toe-to-toe with the big boys this year and more then held our own. LBSU is a nice mid major but who else have you played on this 14 game streak? Anyone above 150 in the RPI? I don't say that to flame just for a little perspective.
It sounds like this Griz team (who I admittedly know nothing about other then Freddie is one of your coaches) plays pressure D and relies on steals and a transition game to make up for the lack of rebounding and inside scoring. Ouch. That is exactly what Badger fans like to see. If you can't grab boards against the Badgers it is VERY hard to beat us, as we don't turn the ball over and we very rarely take those poor, quick shots that lead to fast breaks.
I realize how arrogant this sounds but you are not going to speed up the game. Sorry, its just not going to happen. We play at our pace and not Cherry, (or UNC/DUKE/MSU/OSU/Texas/Ect.) can do anything to change it. That is Bo Ryan basketball in a nutshell, impose your style on the game and make the other team beat you at our pace. Many teams have tried to speed up Bo's Badgers, less then 5 have ever done it and they were all top 5 teams with multiple NBA starters on them. (UNC 05, UCONN 08, MARQ in 06 or so, OSU last year (who we also beat last year in the first match-up. In the second Ohio State set NCAA Division I records by making 14 of 15 3-pointers (93.3 percent) and hitting 14 in a row in that game, so I don't know how much of that was pace, more like a once in a life time performance.)
I expect the Griz to bring it early before UW's size and depth wear them down for a relatively easy 10-15 point UW win. Unless Cherry has the game of his life and goes for 35 or the Badgers go on one of their 19 minute scoring droughts like we did against MSU, this is a bad matchup for Montana. UW will not overlook you and think that we can just roll the ball out there and win. We are long on the perimeter and Berggren is surprisingly athletic at the 5. Bottom line, its a huge advantage for UW down low and in a half-court game that will be the difference. Good luck Grizzlies, hope its a great game.
PS reading it back it sounds a bit like a big school fan dismissing a solid team. Thats not how I intend it. We just hear the same arguments every year when we play a good mid major early in the tourney. It gets old always being the BCS school picked for an upset, especially when we have gone 9-1 in the last ten first rounds. No offense intended Griz fans, just my two cents.
Tokyogriz
Well-known member
fair enough bigdsrip. Wisconsin is a good team and has a talent pool much larger than UM to draw on due to its size.
But theres no hiding behind stats only what the kids lay out on the table thursday. And this griz team has been rolling and playing lights out as a team lately. The game is on neutral territory, and all the pressure is on your team to win not ours as they are expected to lose by most. I like the odds atm for UM. This has upset written all over it.
But theres no hiding behind stats only what the kids lay out on the table thursday. And this griz team has been rolling and playing lights out as a team lately. The game is on neutral territory, and all the pressure is on your team to win not ours as they are expected to lose by most. I like the odds atm for UM. This has upset written all over it.
Bigdsrip said:
UM is a good defensive rebounding team. Lead the conference (conference-only stats) in defensive rebounding. Last in offensive rebounding. I use conf-only stats because they are more indicative of the how the team was playing after the earlier portion of the year.
UM doesn't pound it inside to score, but UM gets good scoring from its bigs, and its guards also score in the paint. UM's bigs averaged 11, 9 and 9. All 3 of the bigs can shoot from the outside. Their 3-pt shooting percentages were 50%, 44% and 43.5%. The 7-footer took 85 3's.
UM scores in transition when it was a chance, but UM doesn't rely on transition scoring to win games. A number of UM's players get alot of steals, and Taylor can't hold or dribble the ball for 30 seconds on every position. UW's other players are going to have to avoid mistakes too. Taylor looks like a very good ball handler, but Cherry is very quick, athletic and fast--anticipates well and is sometimes unorthodox in terms of how he comes after lose balls.
All of the last 14 games were in conference, except for Hawaii in the bracket buster. We beat Weber twice, and they had good RPI's at both times (Weber is currently no.70). Note that Long Beach St is currently 34 and UW is 22nd. UM is no. 73.
We're happy to hear your analysis of your team, and of how your team has done in the past, but when you admit you don't know much about the Griz and you make some of the statements you have made, you don't have credibility and you come across largely has a homer.
No doubt I am a homer. But so is everyone on these boards right now. I wasn't really trying to make any statements about Montana other then echoing what I've seen here. I was talking in the context of how UW, and our suggested vulnerability, is perceived. Clearly I have no inside or in depth knowledge of Montana sports, and I wasn't trying to say I did. It was just my reaction to the views I saw on this board.
UW as a team has been near the top of the country in turnovers allowed for years now. Can you steal the ball from our guys? Sure, but your not going to do it more than a couple times a game. If you are counting on steals to significantly change the game I would be very nervous playing UW, it just doesn't really happen.
UW also is in the top three in 3 point % allowed (they were No 1 for most of the year but I'm not sure if thats still the case) so we don't mind teams with bigs that shoot. Anyone can get hot and change a game, but if we are going by percentages, UW has had many more problems dealing with teams that out rebound us and can out physical us down low. We want teams to stay on the perimeter against us and jack 3's, assuming you don't hit 12 straight or go 14-15 of course.
Winning 14 in a row is tough no matter who you play, so props on that one for sure. Weber St is a decent team with a legit star, but I just don't see anything on your schedule that worries me. You beat 12 seed LBSU by two at home early and thats it for wins over tourney teams. Lost at OSU, lost to Nevada and thats it for decent teams on the schedule.
UW has been in dog fights at 1 seed UNC, 1 seed MSU, 3 seed Marq, split with 2 seed OSU, destroyed 14 seed BYU at a neutral site, beat 6 seed UNLV, beat 4 seed IU twice and won at 10 seed Purdue. I just don't see how this is a good matchup for Montana, but what do I know? I thought we were money against Cornell a few years ago too.
UW as a team has been near the top of the country in turnovers allowed for years now. Can you steal the ball from our guys? Sure, but your not going to do it more than a couple times a game. If you are counting on steals to significantly change the game I would be very nervous playing UW, it just doesn't really happen.
UW also is in the top three in 3 point % allowed (they were No 1 for most of the year but I'm not sure if thats still the case) so we don't mind teams with bigs that shoot. Anyone can get hot and change a game, but if we are going by percentages, UW has had many more problems dealing with teams that out rebound us and can out physical us down low. We want teams to stay on the perimeter against us and jack 3's, assuming you don't hit 12 straight or go 14-15 of course.
Winning 14 in a row is tough no matter who you play, so props on that one for sure. Weber St is a decent team with a legit star, but I just don't see anything on your schedule that worries me. You beat 12 seed LBSU by two at home early and thats it for wins over tourney teams. Lost at OSU, lost to Nevada and thats it for decent teams on the schedule.
UW has been in dog fights at 1 seed UNC, 1 seed MSU, 3 seed Marq, split with 2 seed OSU, destroyed 14 seed BYU at a neutral site, beat 6 seed UNLV, beat 4 seed IU twice and won at 10 seed Purdue. I just don't see how this is a good matchup for Montana, but what do I know? I thought we were money against Cornell a few years ago too.
Bigdsrip said:
This post is more helpful and less homer-driven. UW is still very high in all or defensive stats, inlcuding 3-pt percentage defense. Obviously, UW is a terrific defensive team.
UM doesn't have any big wins, except Weber twice in the past 2 weeks and LBS. However, UM is a different and much better team than it was earlier in the season. Its rotation is different, it's 7-footer is healthy and back in stride, and the team has been playing very well and fairly consistent. Had UM had some of its earlier loss games to play over in the past two months, I think the results would be have been different.
UM is capable of scoring in all or most aspects of the game, altho does not score as well by pounding it inside. UM does not sit outside and shoot 3's. UM's guards score off the dibble and with jumpers, as well as 3's. UM's 3 can drive and score from several dribbles out, or shoot from the outside. One post scores inside, mid-range jumpers and some 3's. He's hard to guard because he can score from anywhere. UM's 7-footer can score in various places and is a good 3=point shooter. It will be interesting to see if UW's posts can cover our outside shooting.
UM's defense will have to be patient and consistent. UM has had to defend like this in some games, and had done it fairly well.
UW should win this game, but UW will have to bring more that it's B game--and hope UM isn't on fire like it has been some recent games. It sounds like UW isn't likely to overlook UM; that's unfortunate for us. I have to think it will be a nice advantage for UM to have Freddie has a coach this week, with the insight and suggestions he will have. By the way, Freddie has done well at UM and is well-liked. He got married at about the time he moved here, and his wife is nice too and seems to enjoy Missoula. I like our guys and how they have been playing for several months, especially the last month, and I think they will come after your guys hard. I could see the ball bouncing our way a bit more than you may think it will.
Here's Cherrty's early scouting report on UW from today's Missoulian:
"They play defesne, that's what they do. They don't really have a go-to low-post big man like many schools do. And their bigs basically mirror [UM's] Selvig and Ward--they're pick and pop. They have a nice guard in Jordan Taylor, he's the head of that team. When he's on point, their team is on point."
"I've watched them play alot. That's what I do, watch college basketball."
I"m guessing this interview came immediately after the announcement gathering at Paradise Falls--indicating that Cherry really has seen UW play alot.
"They play defesne, that's what they do. They don't really have a go-to low-post big man like many schools do. And their bigs basically mirror [UM's] Selvig and Ward--they're pick and pop. They have a nice guard in Jordan Taylor, he's the head of that team. When he's on point, their team is on point."
"I've watched them play alot. That's what I do, watch college basketball."
I"m guessing this interview came immediately after the announcement gathering at Paradise Falls--indicating that Cherry really has seen UW play alot.
BigAppleBucky
Member
http://buckyville.yuku.com/topic/51396/Montana-Pre-Game-Analysis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why Montana Could Win:
Home Court Advantage - No, the game isn't in Montana, but the game is at a high altitude that the Badgers aren't used to (and the Grizzlies are) and the neutral spectators always pull for the underdog
Confidence - As I pointed out above and will demonstrate further, Montana hasn't beaten many opponents of note, but the confidence that comes from a 14-game winning streak is not to be ignored
Three-Point Shooting - Like seemingly every mid-major opponent Wisconsin faces in the tournament, Montana can shoot the three... and like Wisconsin, has a starting center that must be guarded out there
Why Wisconsin Could Win:
Depth - Yes, you Badger fans laugh, but in Montana, Wisconsin found itself an opponent that, in a close game, may only go 6 deep and has no solid backups in the frontcourt
Neutral Court - For some reason, Wisconsin has had a better shooting percentage away from the Kohl Center this season than in it... and have a very formidable 10-5 record in neutral and away games
Defense - The best defense Montana has faced since December 10th is ranked #226 in Ken Pom's adjusted efficiency... Wisconsin is #4
Why Montana Could Win:
Home Court Advantage - No, the game isn't in Montana, but the game is at a high altitude that the Badgers aren't used to (and the Grizzlies are) and the neutral spectators always pull for the underdog
Confidence - As I pointed out above and will demonstrate further, Montana hasn't beaten many opponents of note, but the confidence that comes from a 14-game winning streak is not to be ignored
Three-Point Shooting - Like seemingly every mid-major opponent Wisconsin faces in the tournament, Montana can shoot the three... and like Wisconsin, has a starting center that must be guarded out there
Why Wisconsin Could Win:
Depth - Yes, you Badger fans laugh, but in Montana, Wisconsin found itself an opponent that, in a close game, may only go 6 deep and has no solid backups in the frontcourt
Neutral Court - For some reason, Wisconsin has had a better shooting percentage away from the Kohl Center this season than in it... and have a very formidable 10-5 record in neutral and away games
Defense - The best defense Montana has faced since December 10th is ranked #226 in Ken Pom's adjusted efficiency... Wisconsin is #4
