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Game 3 Review

TrueGriz

Well-known member
Overall it was a win for the good side. Nice comeback from last week. At least for the defense it was. There was better offense in this game, but then there was also worse offense this game. To be honest, I still believe we would have lost again if this was NDSU, or at least another close game where we should have been much better. Still a lot to work on. Especially defense.

Coaches: C
A little better for them this week but not much better. First Quarter it looked like they were going to blow the game for the Griz with the play calling.
Maybe all those boo birds had an affect on them with the play calling. Offense did open it up some in the second quarter. But if it weren't for Waller, the second half would have been a whole lot different.

Defense: A-
Good job by the defense today. Played real hard. Saw good performances by just about everybody today. There was some weaknesses in the pass coverages at times, some poor tackling, but overall, good.

Offense: C-
Little below average here. If it weren't for Waller and Talmage, this game could very well have been a loss.

Disney: C-
I graded him leniently in the first two games, but he didn't look any better this game. He actually looked more lost in this game than he did in the first two games. Just a poor game by him. Did make some good throws, and he did get the ball to Talmage, for some good catches. Just not enough.

Hartman: C
Bad pass. But he does have more of a swagger to him as he walks up to the line. Now that he lost his redshirt due to Disney getting an injury, we will see Hartman more often.

Receivers: C
Talmage alone would get an A. But all the rest a C. Heidelberger really needs to catch the ball better. Disney's best pass of the day was to Heidelberger, and what a bad drop. Should have been caught.

Special Teams: B
Good overall. Nothing to complain about. Heidelberger is such a darn good kickoff returner. Segars did well at punt returning but made a mistake on one return, which is why this area, I didn't give an A.
Ty Johnson did real well at punting the ball. Overall, This was his best game.
Chris Snyder did well, one kick on a kickoff was short and kind of concerned me. No way the coaches told him to kick where he kicked it there. But, all his other kicks were great, and he did make a field goal that may have put the nail on the coffin in Sam Houston's comeback.

Running backs: B
Waller got his job back. Had a great game. Lex Hilliard had some good runs. Still has a good future ahead. Against a better Defensive Line, not sure Waller would have run as well.

Overall: C
This team needs a hell of a lot more improvement to win many of the games in the Big Sky. Maybe Hartman will be the answer, or maybe Ochs will return and turn this offense into a weapon after his return. I do not know. Way Disney is playing, This will be a short season.
 
Hartman was in for a series and threw one pass, how can you give him a C? I do strongly agree with you about the swagger, I defiantely felt better with him in there. However, this did not blow his redshirt. I don't know the exact rule, and I am sure Hauck will get asked about it and clarify it for us, but something along the lines if you play less than 30percent of the snaps in the non-conference schedule you can still keep your redshirt. Remember when Hancock had to come in and start at RB when he was a true Frosh? He still got to count that as a redshirt year.
 
After seeing the Grizzlies today, you still have a talented team, but this was not the dominating team I saw in 2001. We have a lot of young guys in key places and it showed at times, but I think we are only a year away from some good things in BearKat Land. Good game today. We just had too many mistakes and turnovers. See you next year in Huntsville.
AS MY GRANDFATHER TOLD ME ONE TIME;
As you travel on through life no matter what your goal, keep your eye on the donut and not upon the hole."
 
Hancock got his redshirt year because he played in less than a certain number of games before he had a season-ending injury.
 
grzz said:
However, this did not blow his redshirt. I don't know the exact rule, and I am sure Hauck will get asked about it and clarify it for us, but something along the lines if you play less than 30percent of the snaps in the non-conference schedule you can still keep your redshirt. Remember when Hancock had to come in and start at RB when he was a true Frosh? He still got to count that as a redshirt year.

grzz, I posted the rules early this past week on redshirting. One Play, One season. That 30 percent thing is when a player is injured. Hancock received his redshirt because of injury. He received a medical redshirt. There are different rules for medical redshirting then they are for normal redshirting.

Now, if a player played a down, that player can still petition the NCAA for a redshirt. NCAA doesn't have to grant it at all, as the rule states, One play counts as one season. But NCAA did grant Nathan Adkins because he played exactly one down last year. Lucky him.

But Hartman played in 4 downs. I doubt Hartman will be as lucky as Nathan to be granted a redshirt unless he is injured during the Idaho game.

As for the C, he really didn't deserve a better grade. Maybe I shouldn't have graded him at all. In practice he seemed to be an accurate passer, but I sure as heck hope the pass he threw isn't how he will be passing it in a real game.
 
It was stated by Hauck I think in an interview that it matters little if Hartman redshirts this year or next year.

We need him this year.

As far as the one pass Hartman threw. It was a 35-40 yarder that he threw on a full speed roll out to the left. Try running to the left and throwing a long pass on the run when you are right handed. Oh, that's a TOUGH one.
 
I hate to say it, but our season is beginning to look a lot like the Cats of last season. We lose to Division II team, our defense definitely looks like the strength of the team, and now we might depend on a freshman QB to lead the charge. WTF?
 
Jimus said:
I hate to say it, but our season is beginning to look a lot like the Cats of last season. We lose to Division II team, our offense definitely looks like the strength of the team, and now we might depend on a freshman QB to lead the charge. WTF?


If it leads to us beating them good and ugly like in Nov. Tha'd be OK! :wink:
 
I accidently wrote "offense" in my previous post. I meant "defense" of course. That must have sounded stupid. Consider it edited.
 
Who ever said that we would have gotten beat by NDSU again today was absoultely right! I've watched for 3 games now wondering what the heck is up with our offense and have finially decided........ Go ahead and "flame me if you want" but my feeling is that our main problem is the Offensive Coordinater..........

I don't care how "complex" our offense is but if the players can't execute it after a full spring practice session, fall practice session and 3 friggen games into the season something is wrong! If the offense is that complex, maybe it is "to complex"! I've heard that LV isn't playing much receiver because he is having problems learning the "routes"! Funny, he didn't have that problem last year and he was our leading receiver! He is also one of our most exciting and explosive players and we can't seem to get him on the field because after all this time he can't learn the routes!!!!!! Something is DRASTICALLY wrong!

Maybe we need to revert to the old play calling of "you cross over the middle", "you do a deep out" and "you do a ten yard curl"! I don't know what Georgia Sourthern does but I can guarantee you that their offense is based upon the althletic ability of their player beating the althletic ability of their opponenents! Not some super complicated scheme that takes years to learn! Not that I want to do what Georgia Southern does but we need to get back to giving our players a chance to succeed based upon their abilities, not on complicated schemes. We have the best athletes in the BSC. LET THEM PLAY!!!!

What the heck was with that call before the half where Disney was intercepted for the TD. I'll check the tape tomorrow if I can get one but it looked like a called play to me. Disney fakes a run to the left then reversed to his right and tries to throw a pass all the way accross the field! Not even in HIS dreams is his arm that strong! Plus, that play should NEVER have been called with a 14 point lead and time running down in the 1st half. That rates right up there with the "middle screen" when your successfully running the ball that was called last week and was intercepted!

I really feel bad for Disney though. It got so bad today that he couldn't complete a pass if he and the receiver were the only ones on the field! And you know, it wasn't all his fault! The play calling is so horendus that I don't even think Dave Dickenson himself could succed. Disney was so "shell shocked" today that he really needed to be sat down for a series or two but wasn't because we didn't have anyone ready to replace him. You all noticed that Hartman came in for the last series. May be it was because Disney was injured but in my opinion it was more likely to get a little experience during a game that was finially "inhand" and to send a message to him (that we're burning your red shirt season) and Disney that he WILL be playing against Idaho.

There is to much talent on this team for us to be struggling this bad. Something has to change. I can't believe that the Sam Houston defense was so good that we couldn't even get "1" first down the entire 1st quarter. Yes we won the game 38 to 14, but what would the score have been if the Sam Houston receivers would have held onto even 1/2 of the passes that they dropped?

Thank God for our defense, their dropped passes, special teams (again), a couple of "great runs by Waller, (That TD run was really a great effort on his part. I don't think the OC really called "58 yard run to waller on 2") , and the fact that Disney and/or OC remembered that Talmage is on our side and actually threw him the ball once and a while!!!!!

Well...I've said more than enough for tonight! Actually just typed because I've have screamed my voice competely out during the game. I am a Griz fan, will always be a Griz fan, but I am now calling for (not that anyone cares what I say) a change in Offensive Cooridnator!!!!! He has to go because HIS OFFENSE CAN"T!!!!! (There is a reason he was just fired before coming here!)
 
Sorry Victor......gotta disagree with your assessment of our OC and the feeling that we should make the pass routes simpler for LV.

You want offense? Phenicie has produced everywhere he's been. the problem is execution. if we can win (even ugly) until the offense "gets it" we'll be OK and our chances of winning the NC will be much better when they do.

Maybe a great season and a trip deep into the playoffs is good enough for you, but I would like another trophy. If we had made it to the NC last year I doubt we had enough to win. I kinda like the idea of overwhelming the opposing defense with a multifaceted wide open offense. It'll come.

Hell, in 1995, we were putting up 70 points some games with DD and still only managed a 2 point win over Marshall.

I think the coaches have the right idea. I don't think we're seeing Air Bear because the O isn't ready yet. conservative play means fewer turnovers, fewer mistakes.....and ugly wins. but, a win is a win.
 
I can't believe that the Sam Houston defense was so good that we couldn't even get "1" first down the entire 1st quarter. Yes we won the game 38 to 14, but what would the score have been if the Sam Houston receivers would have held onto even 1/2 of the passes that they dropped?

Our defense is good. In our first game, we held the opponent under 200 total yards. Ya'll didn't have much more than that in the game.
You are right, turnovers and dropped passes killed us today. The receiving corps is our deepest position, but we have got to catch the ball. Lots of raw talent on our team. I think we might suprise Baylor this next weekend.
Good luck the rest of the season.
 
VictorG.....


I will try not to "flame on you", you are intitled to your opinion.(Even if you are wrong. :wink: ) But I do want to bring up some things to consider.


VictorG said:
We have the best athletes in the BSC.

Are you sure about this? I can't remember one season were this statement would be true. We do have some really good athletes at even postion, but even when we've won our NCs we had to take the field against teams that had better athletes. Course, that is just my opinion. Sam Houston had a ton of gifted athletes....maybe better than we have....and NDSU had bigger and faster guys on their team.


VictorG said:
What the heck was with that call before the half where Disney was intercepted for the TD. I'll check the tape tomorrow if I can get one but it looked like a called play to me. Disney fakes a run to the left then reversed to his right and tries to throw a pass all the way accross the field! Not even in HIS dreams is his arm that strong! Plus, that play should NEVER have been called with a 14 point lead and time running down in the 1st half. That rates right up there with the "middle screen" when your successfully running the ball that was called last week and was intercepted!

Your take on the play was way different that what I saw. I remeber Disney just dropping back...maybe a five or seven step drop, Locking on to his receiver for three seconds, then throwing the ball that way. The guy who picked the ball was quoted in the Missoulian as saying...

"That's one thing that we did pick on in watching film this week, that he did stare his passes down," Donelson said. "So that clued me in on it also."


I don't think that The OC is teaching Disney to do that.....And hopefully they are working on that A LOT. But I think that is one of Disney's bad habits that he got away with at Jr. College. So you can not pin that one on the OC.
And the screen play that was picked....well I didn't like that call, but there was nothing overly wrong with it in theory. If you got the D lookin run up the middle or to the left...A Middle screen to the right should work in theory......and if McFarland holds his block for one more second...the play might have netted 10 yards.......but again we are talkin exacution not play calling at that point.



My man said:
I really feel bad for Disney though. It got so bad today that he couldn't complete a pass if he and the receiver were the only ones on the field! And you know, it wasn't all his fault! The play calling is so horendus that I don't even think Dave Dickenson himself could succed. Disney was so "shell shocked" today that he really needed to be sat down for a series or two but wasn't because we didn't have anyone ready to replace him.


Sorry....I do not share your view on this. The play calling would be alot different if DD was at the helm.

If you were the OC and knew that your QB has been prone to INTs, and you also know that he hasn't had a good game in the Silver and Maroon, and you know he has bruised ribs this week which compounds the first two problems........Are you going to open up the passing game? Or will you go into the game thinking.....if our running game can get going, we can control the clock, rest our D, and have less turnovers. Plus if I am OC, I have got to think....this Offensive Line should be KILLING people. We have to be able to run the Damn ball! I think that is how Phenicie feels, to the point of stubborness. And I don't blame him right now. We should be able to run the ball 35 times a game for 150+ yards. Of couse I would rather see them throw the ball 40 times a game.....but if Disney throw the ball 40 times today he was on pace to complete 16 of them.....16 of 40! DD would complete 16 of 20 left handed! :lol:


Your Boy said:
There is to much talent on this team for us to be struggling this bad. Something has to change.


I agree. But lets wait to see a healthy Disney, and wait until Ochs gets back, and see what they do then.

Also, it will be interesting to see the pall calling against Idaho. Their D Line is strong and deep. It will be hard to run on them. In the past we have had great success THROWING the ball early and often on them. We shall see.


Mr. VictoryG said:
He has to go because HIS OFFENSE CAN"T!!!!! (There is a reason he was just fired before coming here!)


There is a reason he was fired.......the WHOLE staff was fired because their DEFFENSE couldn't stop a hurd of turtles in molasses! But their Passing game was one of the best in all of College Football last year. ANd that was the area that Phenicie was responsible for.

Phenecie was also responsible for that Cal ST Northridge team that lead the whole freakin nation in total offense at IAA. If he can do that at Northridge......he has to be capable of doning it here at MT!


So to sum up.....lets be patient. We got a big W....and we get two weeks to work on our O before U da HO. I have a feeling things will come around....and I am still being patient on the return of Ochs. 8)
 
Only 2 areas of concern for me, but both are big concerns. 1) Disney does not see the whole field. There are open receivers everywhere, but Jeff will focus on 1 receiver and telegraphs his intentions (so noted by earlier post). He also moves from the pocket too soon and can't throw on the run, especially running to the left. The offense may be too confusing for Jeff, but I feel the receivers are doing their job getting open. It could be the OC is not calling too many pass plays, because Jeff is not performing well enough. #2) Harrington threw for 270+ yrds against Boise State. A couple of average 1AA qbs threw for plenty against us and without counting the dropped passes, they may have been over 300 yrds. Our secondary and OLB are going to be lit up if we don't get better soon in this area.
 
Why doesn't Talmedge get more passes?

What I've seen is that Dis is checking off recievers from left to right. So Talmedge is only 1 or 2 yrds off the line because he is to Dis's far left. He is ether at the start of a route or beyond Dis's passing ability by the second look, or the play has broken down.

I think both TD's yesterday were called plays - #2 on a slant. One primary reciever. How many passes have been thrown to the left side? FEW and far between
 
My thoughts echo several of your own sentiments..

As a whole, the team played so much better. The D was fantastic, special teams were good... the Crowd was back into it.

The offense, started to put things out there, but against a young, inexperienced team. Some big plays broke and those were key, but some big mistakes as well.

Not sure if this has been brought up, but what about the whole 'no huddle' thing. I think that sucks ass, and is a HUGE thing to try and throw in this year. Im sure the intentions were great, but it just seems to have everyone 'off' of the same page...
Get back in the huddle, take a few breathers, reconnect as a team in there. Give someone a slap on the ass for a good block or catch, and tell them to pull their shit together too!

And what scares me the most... the rest of the Big Sky is starting to put up some big time passing numbers, and we're floundering...

AND ... Disney is tied in the Big Sky with 4 INT's... and leads in times getting sacked with 7. Those are NOT good numbers for our O.

Its time get our shit together guys... Idawho? is comin and good team or not, this one is always close.

Come on Griz, lets get a complete game out of everyone!
 
Thanks for the info on the red shirts. I stand corrected, I must have been thinking about the injury.
 
GeauxGriz said:
Of couse I would rather see them throw the ball 40 times a game.....but if Disney throw the ball 40 times today he was on pace to complete 16 of them.....16 of 40! DD would complete 16 of 20 left handed! :lol:


And four interceptions!
 
GGG-


I don't know if I am for or against the no huddle yet.....but I can tell you the reason they have been using it.

Remember the Maine game...we had three or more possessions that were awful, and we were using the huddle. Then we went no huddle, caught Maine off guard and went down the field and scored....I think it was around an 80 yard drive that was slick as KY jelly! :wink:

Plus If you remember Cal St Noerthridge when they had that potent O, they used the no-Huddle. I think Phenicie likes it.....and I think it will be fine with better exacution. Just a thought....your thought is just as valid though.
 

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