Fullerton: Take BSC to FBS and add NDSU?

[billings_poke]

FBS BSC

Montana
Montana State
NDSU
UND
EWU
Idaho
Weber State
Cal Poly
Sac State
Portland State
NAU
NMSU (maybe)

no MWC team would ever "drop down" to a FBS Big Sky :roll:

You've got two schools (CP & Suck St) on there that reside in a state that is horribly in debt and considering CUTTING sports support and another (NAU) that is in a state that has considered dropping NAU football as recently as 2-3 years ago.

Honestly, if THAT is the new WAC (or FBS BSC, whatever you want to call it) then why bother making ANY change?

Actually cali is the number one job producing state in the country right now and is looking at a state surplus for next year. They are increasing funds to schools again.

The idea of a rebuilding WAC with big sky schools is a much more likely scenario than payton first posted of a shattered MWC. I just don't see many MWC school making the cut IF it ever happens and the MWC will pretty much hold together with maybe 2 - 3 additions.

Montana would be better off in the MWC but if you don't invest heavily now there are other schools in Texas that will get the call. The idea to not invest now and just sit tight is a mistake I think.

 

[kemajic]

No one is going to leave the MWC for a recontituted WAC. Quit dreaming.

I remember a time when you fervently argued for joining the WAC. Your agenda seems to have leveled out after gaining some perspective.

My agenda has always been to challenge the comfort of status quo, which is leading nowhere but down inch by inch. That has not changed.

 

[kemajic]

Halam's agenda is to invest in 1) academic center, 2) weight room and 3) locker rooms. All prerequisites for any betterment of the program. He does not expect BOR help with any of them.

 

[PlayerRep]

No one is going to leave the MWC for a recontituted WAC. Quit dreaming.

I remember a time when you fervently argued for joining the WAC. Your agenda seems to have leveled out after gaining some perspective.

My agenda has always been to challenge the comfort of status quo, which is leading nowhere but down inch by inch. That has not changed.

Challenging the status quo is fine. However, not using proper analysis and consideration of the current level as well as other alternatives, allowing a pre-determined view of moving-up to override good decision-making and economics, and not being realistic, are not the way to challenge status quo.

Given UM's situation and economics, and being realistic, UM is doing the right thing by trying to stabilize economics, improve facilities, and continuing to keep a close on the changing landscape. If FBS is eventually not a viable level or alternative, then UM will have to consider Plan B (and to be ready for it). Currently, FBS is fine (with many good teams, viable economics for most schools (compared to the bad economics of FBS) and the developed playoff system), and the Big Sky conference is stable and fairly strong. However, things could, of course, change, as FBS continues to change and realign and/or other headwinds develop.

 

[Screamin_Eagle174]

BTW... EWU Football Stadium... "You cant shine a TURD"

And yet, you've attempted to 6,217 times...

 

[kemajic]

If FBS is eventually not a viable level or alternative, then UM will have to consider Plan B (and to be ready for it). Currently, FBS is fine (with many good teams, viable economics for most schools (compared to the bad economics of FBS) and the developed playoff system), and the Big Sky conference is stable and fairly strong.

Huh? If you find anyone else that can follow this, please let us know.

 

[BigSkyBears]

If we are taking Big Sky teams with us, the ones I'd bring are:

MSU
UM
EWU
PSU
UND
UC Davis
Cal Poly
and Sac State to make it 8

PSU because it's in Portland. If they were relevant on a bigger scale I'd have to think attendance could increase upwards of 20,000. The same goes for Sac State. UCD has the alumni support and stadium already. Poly seems committed to having a winning program. UND has a nice stadium and can and will fill it. EWU is in the process of remodeling their stadium and will soon have some of the nicer sky boxes in FCS.

NAU and Weber are on the cusp. When Weber first hired McBride back, they had 18k fans at their home opener. They have a big enough stadium, but it's tough being 4th fiddle behind BYU, Utah, and Utah State - and that wouldn't change in FBS. NAU's dome isn't great but it isn't terrible, but only holds around 11k.

SUU seems like an up and comer, but they have a long ways to go. UNC is just... UNC. Maybe if they start winning consistently again the fans will show up, but it still doesn't even hold 7k.

Nottingham Field (UNC) holds 8,500. Still pretty small.

 

[Paytonlives]

BTW... EWU Football Stadium... "You cant shine a TURD"

And yet, you've attempted to 6,217 times...

Are you really trying to compare UM's Football stadium to ewu's glorified HS field with dreadful red fake grass... Even when completed, ewu's stadium will only get 40% full on most game days and everyone will still look across the field to a parking lot.

THAT CRAP will NEVER get ewu into a better conference!

Thats why I say YOU can't shine a TURD... You Turd!

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Interesting take...

From The Billings Gazette

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/blogs/catgrizinsider/how-does-the-changing-football-landscape-affect-um/vmix_27d1b61a-99ce-5c25-ad9f-9539b8830334.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[griz4life]

Name one conference that "moved up." There is no such thing, nor will there be. The five FBS tweener conferences have no incentive to team up with the Big Sky. Teaming up only means there's one more conference to share body bag game revenue with. As it is, the ban on FCS games by the bigs works well for tweener conferences.
Any school that wants to join FBS is going to have to go it alone. Now that the WAC is gone, a move to the FBS for a western school is going to be very very difficult if not impossible.

 

[kemajic]

If we are taking Big Sky teams with us, the ones I'd bring are:

MSU
UM
EWU
PSU
UND
UC Davis
Cal Poly
and Sac State to make it 8

PSU because it's in Portland. If they were relevant on a bigger scale I'd have to think attendance could increase upwards of 20,000. The same goes for Sac State. UCD has the alumni support and stadium already. Poly seems committed to having a winning program. UND has a nice stadium and can and will fill it. EWU is in the process of remodeling their stadium and will soon have some of the nicer sky boxes in FCS.

NAU and Weber are on the cusp. When Weber first hired McBride back, they had 18k fans at their home opener. They have a big enough stadium, but it's tough being 4th fiddle behind BYU, Utah, and Utah State - and that wouldn't change in FBS. NAU's dome isn't great but it isn't terrible, but only holds around 11k.

SUU seems like an up and comer, but they have a long ways to go. UNC is just... UNC. Maybe if they start winning consistently again the fans will show up, but it still doesn't even hold 7k.

Nottingham Field (UNC) holds 8,500. Still pretty small.

Irrelevant when they can't fill it. 4700 last year on a nice day for Montana and homecoming. And their most successful year in the BSC and beer in the concessions.

 

[RABIDAWG]

Good grief! Don't these folks with their cockamammy conference alignments pay attention to what's been going on for the past 18 months. The MWC is set, the PAC12 is beyond reach, the Sun Belt and ConferenceUSA are non starters and the WAC is a handful of left behinds searching for an identity. Montana is paying the price for a series of administrations that have sat on their backsides waiting - waiting for what? The moment has come and gone for the foreseeable future...

I dont' think it matters what the administration wants. The board of regents pay the bills, and they're not interested in spending any more than they do now.

With all the budget cut talks, UofM administration is probably looking at a Division II budget, and fortifying the French & Arabic courses!

 

[dbackjon]

Good grief! Don't these folks with their cockamammy conference alignments pay attention to what's been going on for the past 18 months. The MWC is set, the PAC12 is beyond reach, the Sun Belt and ConferenceUSA are non starters and the WAC is a handful of left behinds searching for an identity. Montana is paying the price for a series of administrations that have sat on their backsides waiting - waiting for what? The moment has come and gone for the foreseeable future...

Agree, there won't be intermingling of MWC and Big Sky teams. The MWC has much higher budgets and markets.

1. What could happen: NDSU, SDSU, USD accept invites to the Big Sky. (14 full time FCS members plus Davis and Poly as associated members plus Idaho as FBS in the Sun Belt ).

2. In a year or two: 6 Big Sky teams that want FBS now are invited to the WAC for football only but stay in the Big Sky other sports. (possibly Montana, MSU, NDSU, UND, PSU, Sac St) Those 6 begin the FBS transition and NMSU and Idaho later rejoin WAC football from the Sun Belt. Nine Big Sky teams remain in the Big Sky as FCS.

3. Once the transitions are complete, NMSU is offered a Big Sky spot and accepts. The six FBS schools finishing their FBS transition rejoin the Big Sky in football as well as Idaho, and voila, the Big Sky now has 8 members and meets the definition of an FBS conference. The 9 FCS members can continue under the Big Sky umbrella too, but as a separate division.

4. The other FCS Big Sky schools (N Colo, SDSU, USD, Weber St, S Utah, N Ariz, UC Davis, Cal Poly, and EWU) can now choose to upgrade to FBS any time.

What's in it for the WAC? The WAC will get leftover Summit League members: Omaha, W Ill, maybe Denver, and possibly IUPUI and IPFW to make a Midwestern division with Chicago St and UMKC.

I'm betting the draft copy of this post was created in crayon...

Hey Ursa, his scenario is no worse than some I've seen. Drag out your own crayons and show us yours...

And far more realistic than including Washington State or any MWC school in a new Conference.

 

[Grizzlies1982]

Good grief! Don't these folks with their cockamammy conference alignments pay attention to what's been going on for the past 18 months. The MWC is set, the PAC12 is beyond reach, the Sun Belt and ConferenceUSA are non starters and the WAC is a handful of left behinds searching for an identity. Montana is paying the price for a series of administrations that have sat on their backsides waiting - waiting for what? The moment has come and gone for the foreseeable future...

I dont' think it matters what the administration wants. The board of regents pay the bills, and they're not interested in spending any more than they do now.

With all the budget cut talks, UofM administration is probably looking at a Division II budget, and fortifying the French & Arabic courses!

You are wrong Dawg. Football revenue will be directed to expanding the Gender Studies Program. Which is mystifying as I never needed an instructor to study my own gender, nor needed one to frequently study the other gender.

 

[BigSkyBears]

If we are taking Big Sky teams with us, the ones I'd bring are:

MSU
UM
EWU
PSU
UND
UC Davis
Cal Poly
and Sac State to make it 8

PSU because it's in Portland. If they were relevant on a bigger scale I'd have to think attendance could increase upwards of 20,000. The same goes for Sac State. UCD has the alumni support and stadium already. Poly seems committed to having a winning program. UND has a nice stadium and can and will fill it. EWU is in the process of remodeling their stadium and will soon have some of the nicer sky boxes in FCS.

NAU and Weber are on the cusp. When Weber first hired McBride back, they had 18k fans at their home opener. They have a big enough stadium, but it's tough being 4th fiddle behind BYU, Utah, and Utah State - and that wouldn't change in FBS. NAU's dome isn't great but it isn't terrible, but only holds around 11k.

SUU seems like an up and comer, but they have a long ways to go. UNC is just... UNC. Maybe if they start winning consistently again the fans will show up, but it still doesn't even hold 7k.

Nottingham Field (UNC) holds 8,500. Still pretty small.

Irrelevant when they can't fill it. 4700 last year on a nice day for Montana and homecoming. And their most successful year in the BSC and beer in the concessions.

True, but 8 years of bad football will decimate any programs fan base. When we were winning in D2 it was always pretty close to filling up. And don't pretend Montana hasn't ever struggled with attendance. Tired of going over the same thing with you.

 

[Spanky]

Northern Colorado should be Division2 and you know it!

 

[Buttegrizzle]

And then there's ISU. Sigh. I say screw the WAC and Elevate the top half of the BSC. Add NDSU, Idaho and 'Poly. WAC survivors will come hat in hand to join that.

 

[Ursa Major]

And then there's ISU. Sigh. I say screw the WAC and Elevate the top half of the BSC. Add NDSU, Idaho and 'Poly. WAC survivors will come hat in hand to join that.

I think you are channeling Capt. Fullerton.

 

[Cujo]

Name one conference that "moved up." There is no such thing, nor will there be. The five FBS tweener conferences have no incentive to team up with the Big Sky. Teaming up only means there's one more conference to share body bag game revenue with. As it is, the ban on FCS games by the bigs works well for tweener conferences.
Any school that wants to join FBS is going to have to go it alone. Now that the WAC is gone, a move to the FBS for a western school is going to be very very difficult if not impossible.

This whole discussion is related to if a Division 1 3 tier system were to happen. The top end FCS conferences would be able to move up with the bottom tier FBS conferences to help form a "2nd tier" the low end FCS programs would be directed to Div II or make a non scholly type of Tier 3 Div 1

 

[AZGrizFan]

And then there's ISU. Sigh. I say screw the WAC and Elevate the top half of the BSC. Add NDSU, Idaho and 'Poly. WAC survivors will come hat in hand to join that.

Uh....we weren't IN the top half of the BSC last year. :? :? :shock: