Fullerton: Take BSC to FBS and add NDSU?

[Jerry Punch]

Coveted in the eyes of Notre Dame fans. Ask Alabama fans or the top 5 teams in the SEC if they covet Notre Dame.

So, what did I miss about the "what have you done lately" for me argument? I know fans of individual programs reject that notion, as you have, but the people who matter usually do not.

Geez, you're dumb.

Go ahead and point out what I wrote that was wrong. I'll be waiting.

 

[Jerry Punch]

Coveted in the eyes of Notre Dame fans. Ask Alabama fans or the top 5 teams in the SEC if they covet Notre Dame.

So, what did I miss about the "what have you done lately" for me argument? I know fans of individual programs reject that notion, as you have, but the people who matter usually do not.

Are you serious? Is this guy serious?

Yep, conference and subdivision affiliations are being determined by single season win-loss records and ND is not a lucrative program for any conference to land because they're not as good as Bama

As you may recall, the original post hit on UM for not finishing in the top of the Big Sky last year. The suggestion was made by prior posters that the top half of the Big Sky be lifted to FBS status. Since UM was not in this category last year, it would presumably mean that they wouldn't be lifted to FBS status. Kem's response was to state that UM's overall achievements in years past should not be diminished by one year. I agree with this point and expanded on it by adding that college football is a what have you done for me lately sport. What has UM done lately in college football?

The irony, as I noted originally, was that UM fans regularly criticize Cat fans for relying on the past. You'll find no other fan base more eager to rely on the past than Griz fans this year. Of course, if you're a Griz fan, it is completely permissible to dismiss one ineffective year and point to overall success. But if Cat fans do the same, it is laughable. That's the irony. You can ask PlayerRep what it means or have him consult his Wikipedia database.

 

[Brock Landers]

All this because Az made a joke

1) That's not realignment works, everyone seems to be on same page other than yourself
2) We're one season removed from the semi-finals. That's what we've done lately, which is more than 11 other Big Sky programs can claim
3) Never take Az seriously (joking or not)

 

[Brock Landers]

...and yes, if 20 years from now we've had a prolonged period of suck, and still rationalize our awesomeness, much like idiots like 2506 do now, you can call us out on our hypocrisy

 

[kemajic]

Just came across this para from UNI's move-up feasibility study in 2010.

"The increased revenue sources realized from playing at the FBS level will not offset the increased expenses, which will result in a net institutional subsidy increase of $3,446,450 in FY 2015 when compared to continuing to play at the FCS football scholarship level."

Thus, a $3.5 million loss for UNI to move up. Note that this factors in additional revenues from moving up.

We clearly recall your carefully selected anecdotes from the Appy study as well. So we should conclude UNI will follow Appy....

 

[kemajic]

...and yes, if 20 years from now we've had a prolonged period of suck, and still rationalize our awesomeness, much like idiots like 2506 do now, you can call us out on our hypocrisy

After all isn't looking back two years about the same as looking back 30?

 

[Zootown Rox]

If the WAC was somehow able to remain an FBS conference (football), would they be eligible to get in on the big pot of playoff money coming in 2014? If they are I could see the financial incentive for the Big Sky to basically take over the WAC name in order to get in on that.

 

[Jerry Punch]

...and yes, if 20 years from now we've had a prolonged period of suck, and still rationalize our awesomeness, much like idiots like 2506 do now, you can call us out on our hypocrisy

I don't dispute that the Cats sucked. It can't be rationalized and is what it is. But we've got every bit of right to rely on national championships as UM does and every right to expect that things would and did get better in the future. I know you're two seasons removed from a semifinals appearance. That's great! I am happy for you. But you're one year removed from a losing season and three years removed from a season of no playoffs. I'll let the experts on Egriz rationalize how 2001 is waaayyy better than 1984 and how two out of the past three years have been aberrations.

Again, you are criticizing Cat fans for relying on the past and doing the same exact thing yourself because your definition of "history" happens to be more recent that the Cats. I would expect no less from a football program founded in 1986.

 

[gah-riz]

...and yes, if 20 years from now we've had a prolonged period of suck, and still rationalize our awesomeness, much like idiots like 2506 do now, you can call us out on our hypocrisy

I don't dispute that the Cats sucked. It can't be rationalized and is what it is. But we've got every bit of right to rely on national championships as UM does and every right to expect that things would and did get better in the future. I know you're two seasons removed from a semifinals appearance. That's great! I am happy for you. But you're one year removed from a losing season and three years removed from a season of no playoffs. I'll let the experts on Egriz rationalize how 2001 is waaayyy better than 1984 and how two out of the past three years have been aberrations.

Again, you are criticizing Cat fans for relying on the past and doing the same exact thing yourself because your definition of "history" happens to be more recent that the Cats. I would expect no less from a football program founded in 1986.

I bet you and Playerrep could have an awesome debate about what constitutes recent history, history, and ancient history. But the only question I really want to know the answer to is whether or not the Griz being two years removed from the semifinals is "multiple" years.

 

[AZGrizFan]

All this because Az made a joke

1) That's not realignment works, everyone seems to be on same page other than yourself
2) We're one season removed from the semi-finals. That's what we've done lately, which is more than 11 other Big Sky programs can claim
3) Never take Az seriously (joking or not)

No shit.

 

[Jerry Punch]

...and yes, if 20 years from now we've had a prolonged period of suck, and still rationalize our awesomeness, much like idiots like 2506 do now, you can call us out on our hypocrisy

I don't dispute that the Cats sucked. It can't be rationalized and is what it is. But we've got every bit of right to rely on national championships as UM does and every right to expect that things would and did get better in the future. I know you're two seasons removed from a semifinals appearance. That's great! I am happy for you. But you're one year removed from a losing season and three years removed from a season of no playoffs. I'll let the experts on Egriz rationalize how 2001 is waaayyy better than 1984 and how two out of the past three years have been aberrations.

Again, you are criticizing Cat fans for relying on the past and doing the same exact thing yourself because your definition of "history" happens to be more recent that the Cats. I would expect no less from a football program founded in 1986.

I bet you and Playerrep could have an awesome debate about what constitutes recent history, history, and ancient history. But the only question I really want to know the answer to is whether or not the Griz being two years removed from the semifinals is "multiple" years.

Here's an example. The number 2 is a _____________ of the number 1.

 

[dbackjon]

All this because Az made a joke

1) That's not realignment works, everyone seems to be on same page other than yourself
2) We're one season removed from the semi-finals. That's what we've done lately, which is more than 11 other Big Sky programs can claim
3) Never take Az seriously (joking or not)

No shit.

Seriously.

His handle is AZGrizfan. Yet, he lives in Texas and graduated from Idaho.

 

[ordigger]

Just came across this para from UNI's move-up feasibility study in 2010.

"The increased revenue sources realized from playing at the FBS level will not offset the increased expenses, which will result in a net institutional subsidy increase of $3,446,450 in FY 2015 when compared to continuing to play at the FCS football scholarship level."

Thus, a $3.5 million loss for UNI to move up. Note that this factors in additional revenues from moving up.

We clearly recall your carefully selected anecdotes from the Appy study as well. So we should conclude UNI will follow Appy....

Don't forget his UMass ones also.

 

[PlayerRep]

Just came across this para from UNI's move-up feasibility study in 2010.

"The increased revenue sources realized from playing at the FBS level will not offset the increased expenses, which will result in a net institutional subsidy increase of $3,446,450 in FY 2015 when compared to continuing to play at the FCS football scholarship level."

Thus, a $3.5 million loss for UNI to move up. Note that this factors in additional revenues from moving up.

We clearly recall your carefully selected anecdotes from the Appy study as well. So we should conclude UNI will follow Appy....

What besides the cost of moving up, about $5 million per year is my recollection, did I provide? Nothing, is my recollection. O'Day told me 3 years ago that App St would probably move up.

 

[PlayerRep]

Just came across this para from UNI's move-up feasibility study in 2010.

"The increased revenue sources realized from playing at the FBS level will not offset the increased expenses, which will result in a net institutional subsidy increase of $3,446,450 in FY 2015 when compared to continuing to play at the FCS football scholarship level."

Thus, a $3.5 million loss for UNI to move up. Note that this factors in additional revenues from moving up.

We clearly recall your carefully selected anecdotes from the Appy study as well. So we should conclude UNI will follow Appy....

Don't forget his UMass ones also.

How's UMass' move up looking? 1-11 season. Here are some articles, headlines and quotes:

"In move up, UMass football sees empty seats, high costs
Empty seats at Gillette, high costs mar move to elite competition"

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/12/12/umass-football-plagued-attendance-problem/g7gKSRY6HhclPTsOgc9tpM/comments.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Big Dream, Rude Awakening"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/30/sports/ncaafootball/universities-chase-big-time-glory-in-fbs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"It's not a good sign when the response to your first FBS season is a vote to leave FBS." The faculty voted by 1 vote not to withdraw from FBS, with one of the most vocal opponents of the move-up unable to vote because he was in Europe.
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/3/6/4067234/2013-umass-massachusetts-football-preview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ordigger]

Good ole PR. Still posting quotes he knows nothing about. Once again, I know exactly what is going on behind the scenes at UMass. No source you find, or can quote can touch mine. And some know exactly who that is.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Comparing UMass's move up to any potential Montana move up is ludicrous.

 

[OrgonGriz]

I look at Fulertons comment of, the BSC will look to FBS if there is a three tier system OR the current BSC members are not happy with the remaing members left in FCS. There is obviously concern over this issue. I believe that the BSC and Fulerton see the writing on the wall in a 3 tier system. Div I T/1, T/2, T/3. Div 1 T-1 Big boys and mid majors with top end of FCS ranks that decided to make the move. T-2 lower end FCS and upper end of current DivII schools and T-3 lower end DivII and all Div III schools.

I think like it or not the BSC will see big changes in next couple years. A BSC -WAC merge makes sense if it will allow for the payout the big boys will hand over to the mid majors.

I would say get all four Dakota schools in along with all but maybe UNC from the BSC and get the Vandals in for football. I think that would give 16 teams?? Get 8 teams ready for FBS to keep the FBS label. Say UM, MSU, UI,NDSU and two other Dakota school and say Sac State and Portland State due to market size. That seems to be a decent starting block. The other teams could remain FCS in football until there programs were ready of if they even wanted to go FBS.

It would be a sad day if the Griz had to step back to a lower level. I just done see that T-2 level being all that great. Too much ground work has been laid to have such a thing happen for UM and MSU!

It would be interesting to get Kent H take on all of this. Would he be in favor? Would UM and BOR support it. If all those answers are no we could see the modern day time of the Romans Coliseum in Missoula a massive empty shell of a place that once help amazing sports specticals.

 

[PlayerRep]

I look at Fulertons comment of, the BSC will look to FBS if there is a three tier system OR the current BSC members are not happy with the remaing members left in FCS. There is obviously concern over this issue. I believe that the BSC and Fulerton see the writing on the wall in a 3 tier system. Div I T/1, T/2, T/3. Div 1 T-1 Big boys and mid majors with top end of FCS ranks that decided to make the move. T-2 lower end FCS and upper end of current DivII schools and T-3 lower end DivII and all Div III schools.

I think like it or not the BSC will see big changes in next couple years. A BSC -WAC merge makes sense if it will allow for the payout the big boys will hand over to the mid majors.

I would say get all four Dakota schools in along with all but maybe UNC from the BSC and get the Vandals in for football. I think that would give 16 teams?? Get 8 teams ready for FBS to keep the FBS label. Say UM, MSU, UI,NDSU and two other Dakota school and say Sac State and Portland State due to market size. That seems to be a decent starting block. The other teams could remain FCS in football until there programs were ready of if they even wanted to go FBS.

It would be a sad day if the Griz had to step back to a lower level. I just done see that T-2 level being all that great. Too much ground work has been laid to have such a thing happen for UM and MSU!

It would be interesting to get Kent H take on all of this. Would he be in favor? Would UM and BOR support it. If all those answers are no we could see the modern day time of the Romans Coliseum in Missoula a massive empty shell of a place that once help amazing sports specticals.

Increasing expenses $5 million per year to get a $1 million per year playoff payout would not "make sense".

 

[G&B]

Lets get this year in the books first.