• Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!

Engstrom capitulation hits the Wall Street Journal

grizfromhel

Well-known member
The "Resolution Agreement" between the feds and the University of Montana hits the opinion page of the Wall Street Journal. Such a shameful acquiesence by Royce Engstrom in throwing out the First Amendment of the Constitution in one giant kowtow to left-wing political correctness.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323582904578485041304763554.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Meh.

I can see both arguments. The standard the DOJ set for college campuses is really no different than the standard in all workplace harassment cases. I find it unlikely -- as the op ed piece suggests -- that an unsuccessful request for a date will rise to the level of harassment on campuses, much like those situations have not been considered harassment in the workplace.

Is the standard reasonable? I'll leave that to others to debate. But it's worked relatively well in the private sector.
 
Sadly, the Missoulian was too busy validating it's own agenda to ask whether DOJ was trampling our first amendment rights and why UM's $273k man just went along with it.
 
griz4life said:
Sadly, the Missoulian was too busy validating it's own agenda to ask whether DOJ was trampling our first amendment rights and why UM's $273k man just went along with it.
I agree with you. but "sadly" isnt the adjective I was thinking of
 
The concerning quote from the article is "An obsession with political correctness and the expansion of bureaucracy on campus are key factors in the proliferation of such free-speech abuses. But the hidden force that pushes schools to overreact to offensive, or merely dissenting, speech is fear of liability and the federal government."

Fear was the driver to fire people and impact lives. The most frightened university president in the country is Royce Engstrom, and rightfully so. He is so far over his head. I'm sure that causes him sleepless nights, as it should. The buck stops at the top.

The University of Montana deserves better!
 
... make an appointment and go to Engstrom's office and voice your opinion, or

post another anonymous post on eGriz? :roll:
 
justanotherfan said:
The concerning quote from the article is "An obsession with political correctness and the expansion of bureaucracy on campus are key factors in the proliferation of such free-speech abuses. But the hidden force that pushes schools to overreact to offensive, or merely dissenting, speech is fear of liability and the federal government."

Fear was the driver to fire people and impact lives. The most frightened university president in the country is Royce Engstrom, and rightfully so. He is so far over his head. I'm sure that causes him sleepless nights, as it should. The buck stops at the top.

The University of Montana deserves better!

Engstrom doesn't know what he's doing. He's an embarrassment. Now he's shown the world including college presidents and administrators that he lacks knowledge and spine.
 
justanotherfan said:
The concerning quote from the article is "An obsession with political correctness and the expansion of bureaucracy on campus are key factors in the proliferation of such free-speech abuses. But the hidden force that pushes schools to overreact to offensive, or merely dissenting, speech is fear of liability and the federal government."

Fear was the driver to fire people and impact lives. The most frightened university president in the country is Royce Engstrom, and rightfully so. He is so far over his head. I'm sure that causes him sleepless nights, as it should. The buck stops at the top.

The University of Montana deserves better!

I hate to disagree with you, but I don't think RR loses any sleep. He is far to dense and is counting his coins instead of worrying. He is more symbolic of a U.S. epidemic that has been effecting the country for some time. This epidemic is not confined to just government employees, the private sector has caught the disease as well. We have no LEADERS left in this once great country. I believe this is largely due to impacts from Vietnam. WW2 leadership style started to die during the baby boomers era, but I digress! Needless to say - Rolls is a pocket pussy and that is what our country is now becoming. A bunch of pocket pussies. An earlier poster recommended we not be anonymous and march to Rolls office and make our complaints known. I applaud this suggestion if you live in Missoula or have the opportunity while visiting. You can also write a letter. I will tell you though, don't head to Rolls office. He is likely in the mens room balled up in the fetal position with his thumb in his mouth praying that the bad men and women go away. He could also be in his office, but if there he will be hiding under his desk!
 
Proud Griz Man said:
... make an appointment and go to Engstrom's office and voice your opinion, or

post another anonymous post on eGriz? :roll:

...so who the hell does your PGM pseudonym belong to?..justanother is not the first, nor will he be the last to voice his opinion about the devisive twit occupying Main Hall...and why would you care anyway? :roll:
 
There is a school in the southeast whereby those wanting the AD to fire the basketball coach have rented a billboard demanding this be accomplished. A similar effort could stimulate action from the Board of Regents if a billboard is rented in Helena asking for them to fire Engstrom.
 
Spanky said:
There is a school in the southeast whereby those wanting the AD to fire the basketball coach have rented a billboard demanding this be accomplished. A similar effort could stimulate action from the Board of Regents if a billboard is rented in Helena asking for them to fire Engstrom.
I'm for a billboard to fire the BOR....
 
EverettGriz said:
Meh.

I can see both arguments. The standard the DOJ set for college campuses is really no different than the standard in all workplace harassment cases. I find it unlikely -- as the op ed piece suggests -- that an unsuccessful request for a date will rise to the level of harassment on campuses, much like those situations have not been considered harassment in the workplace.

Is the standard reasonable? I'll leave that to others to debate. But it's worked relatively well in the private sector.

Your statement is flat out wrong. Workplace harassment has a different standard. The new standard for UM would never work in the workplace.
 
And in the Christian Science Monitor:

"Key among the federal findings at the University of Montana, where the university acknowledged it failed to properly address allegations of sexual assault against several football players, is the necessity to broaden the definition of sexual harassment to “unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature,” including “verbal conduct,” or speech."

"Failed to properly address ...". Baloney.

However, none of that had anything whatsoever to do with "speech" on campus. This was an outrageous, and likely calculated, effort to pick out a University with a hapless President, make some wild and frankly idiotic accusations, get him to fold like a origami crane and ...

"To be sure, the new rules still require that sex crime allegations suggest either pervasive or severe acts or language, and still require an objective standard before allegations are upheld, according to the Department of Education’s letter to the University of Montana.

"But campus free speech advocates have balked at those explanations, saying the policy could have a chilling impact on social, professional, even political dynamics on US college campuses. Critics say any sexual topic, including flirtation, sex ed classes, or a discussion of Vladimir Nabokov’s “Lolita,” could be deemed “unwelcome” and the basis for censure.

"Such fears aren’t theoretical, campus free speech advocates say, citing a professor at the University of Denver who was found to have sexually harassed students by talking about sexual taboos in American culture.

"“Unwelcome” speech has also been used in allegations of teachers creating a “hostile environment,” which apparently happened to a professor at Purdue University at Calumet who last year faced investigation for criticizing on Facebook the failure by moderate Muslims to condemn violence by Islamic extremists."

...

"The Department of Education probe of the University of Montana’s handling of rape allegations against football players found problems with both the university’s sex harassment policy and its implementation. Federal officials focused on police reports, for example, that suggested that one alleged victim simply “regretted sex” and that another one didn’t seem sufficiently upset, and smelled of alcohol."

There was no connection between the "sexual harassment policy" and any rape charges. The fact is, "the police" are, or at least were, bound to write down what they observe as part of their investigations.

"Smelled of alcohol" is no longer an appropriate observation if the complaining witness is female, but is perfectly fine if the driver of a car involved in an accident is male? Police officers are now bound, by social justice theory, to "not see" what they see?

She says things like "Oh, I don't know, it just didn't go like I had wanted," and the officer cannot summarize, "regretted sex?"

Notably, the DOJ didn't find what was in front of its face, that an extraordinarily high rate of false reports had been made, and that male students have little defense against them since false reports are not punished at all.

This is delusional stuff. This is no longer a "justice" system, this is turning any University into a Frankfurt School experiment whereby gender and position determines the disparate treatment of both male and female students, determines the "kind of justice" process applied to them, and attempts on a broad theoretical basis to assign guilt in advance on the basis of gender and irrespective of factual circumstance, and "factual circumstance" now includes expression of thought, and the opinion of the hearer, even if the hearer is eavesdropping on a conversation.

This is thought control gone wild.

And it happened at the University of Montana under the feeble collapse of Royce Engstrom and his complete failure to recall that Universities used to be places where people were educated to speak their minds, not persecuted for doing so.

These are the new puritans; under these policies, the University of Montana could not dare have Jack Kerouac, Lawrence Ferlingetti, Alan Ginsburg, or even Hunter S. Thompson on campus. And students that write such controversial things in their classes ... is the faculty now obligated to report them? Can they dare risk class presentations without advance censorship?

This is, of course, the end of Mark Twain in literature classes; the palpable offense of "Nigger Jim" is too overwhelming in this enfeebled, emasculated, preening culture of hyperattenuated feelings and causes.

“I doubt [the new sexual harassment policy] is intended to be fairly enforced,” writes civil libertarian Wendy Kaminer on Atlantic.com. “I doubt federal officials want or expect it to be used against sex educators, advocates of reproductive choice, anti-porn feminists, or gay rights advocates, if their speech of a sexual nature is ‘unwelcome’ by religious conservatives.”

“When people demand censorship of ‘unwelcome’ speech, they’re usually demanding censorship of speech that they find unwelcome,” Ms. Kaminer writes. “They usually seek to silence their political or ideological opponents, not their friends – all in the name of some greater good.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0518/Feds-rooting-out-unwelcome-speech-on-campus-But-what-is-that" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Are parents really going to want to send their children to the University of Montana after THIS fiasco?

The University of Montana under Royce Engstrom no longer wants to prepare people for the "real world," it wants them to live, while here, in a world of fear and intimidation, presumptively to take it with them when they leave.

That man needs to go.
 
Excellent post :thumb:. It's a cinch that Engstrom won't depart on his own. If Kem's suggestion for a billboard aimed at the BOR gains traction I'm in for a c-note...if nothing else it would generate plenty of discussion across the state - and who knows where it might lead :?:
 
No more condom fashion shows or vagina monologues at Msu. :shock: Seems like these new rules will definitely scale back certain types of classes and put its participants on notice not to in fact participate in ones which discuss human sexuality in any way. A new word for the up coming Thesaurus may be
Engstrom or spineless. It seems as if the DOJ and DOE have used athletics to excel a very dangerous agenda.
 
UMGriz75 said:
Are parents really going to want to send their children to the University of Montana after THIS fiasco?

The University of Montana under Royce Engstrom no longer wants to prepare people for the "real world," it wants them to live, while here, in a world of fear and intimidation, presumptively to take it with them when they leave.

That man needs to go.

100% agree with your views. Nicely said!
 
Back
Top