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DII games not factored?

R

ronbo

Well-known member
On the 1AA board they are having heated discussions about the fact that WKU played two Div. II teams and those wins won't be considered in their record for seeding purposes.

That makes WKU 6-3 vs. Div. 1 competition instead of 8-3 overall.

Now here is my question, if they can't count wins then wouldn't it also be said they won't count any D II game?

The guys there are saying the committee looks at records vs. Div. 1. That is why some schools like Youngstown and Idaho State haven't made it to the playoffs in the past.

If they look at our Div. 1 games only, and we win this weekend, we'll have a 10-1 Div. 1 record. That puts us in a very good position for a top 4 seed.
 
Yeah, doesn't seem like they can take wins out but keep the loses in. Thats whacked. You can't have one without the other.
 
What I heard is that the Sagarin ratings (and/or GPI) doesn't take any DII games into consideration but the playoff committee still does. That may be wrong but that is what I heard.
 
I'm sorry.!!!!.............we lost to NDSU..........we will pay for that in the standings and WE SHOULD! ...............no way, shape, or closing an eye to it. We will pay for that...............and we SHOULD!!!!

My opinion...............but I have/am the "other thing" also!

On another note..............If we play the way we have been, I think we will go a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG ways into the playoffs. It might actually even be better for business in Missoula if we don't host a second/third game(see below)


1) No tailgates....no free beer by distributers (More $$ for stores)

2) No leaving tailgates to watch games.....beer drinking ALL GAME LONG!!

3) See #1 and #2....lot more pizza's ordered!

I could go on and onnnnnnnnnnnnn........but I won't.............no matter what, I hope everyone is safe!!!!!! Even you "Bob" fans.........I say Bob fans because everyone knows that if a guy is a Bobcat fan...he is a "Bob" fan as well!!!! .............!?!?!?!?!?! :wink:
 
In regard to "not counting" DivII wins its quite simple...1-aa playoff teams are supposed to beat those teams. A loss to a DivII team means you really screwed up.
By the same token losses to 1-a teams(they don't say it but they mean really good 1-a teams) really don't count either while the wins vs 1-a teams do count. so it sorta balances things out.

I'm sure last year, had it come down to it, Griz fans would be quite upset if the Cats loss to a DivII team wouldn't have counted.

We lost to a DivII team and will face what comes with that.

However, if the Selection committee doesn't have its head up it's backside they'll look at how teams are playing down the stretch, like they do in NCAA hoops. That being said, this is the same selection committee that gave us regionalized playoffs so in other words don't expect anything good.
 
I think wins vs. I-A and losses vs. II should be determining factors in seeding. Losses to I-A and wins vs. II should be throwaways, and the committee should look at a team's record apart from those games. That said, Montana's loss to NDSU and the win vs. Idaho should almost cancel eachother out. I know Idaho sucks, but it was a convincing win vs. a team on 85 scholarships. And believe it or not, they're actually not the worst team in I-A because they beat UL-Monroe last Saturday 58-20 and they beat New Mexico State earlier, both on the road. I'm not saying Idaho would even be in the top 100, but they're not totally hapless now either.
 
The attitude some of the other fans from UMass, N. Iowa, etc. is that we should not be #1 in the GPI and we should not be #4 in most of the polls.

So where should we be because of that EARLY SEASON loss?

Should we get an 8 or 9 seed? That's what a lot of other schools fans think we should get. They are scared as hell to have to come here.

Either way I pity the school that has to play us even in Iowa or Louisiana. I think we should get all three road games and then we can drink beer during the whole game. :roll:
 
there will be more weight to those teams that played all division I teams over teams that have played lower division teams. So, the Griz loss to NDSU early this will hurt the Griz. I believe I read this from a Tony Moss article who got his information from the NCAA rules on how the teams get seeded and bracketed.


Okay, I found the source, From Tony Moss. Here it is and I put in bold about division 1 games. Division II teams are accounted for, but more weight will be with schedules with all Division 1 games. Thus the fewer division II teams the better chance of being seeded higher depending on the strength of schedule and record.

*************************
Again, let’s review the I-AA playoff particulars for the unacquainted.

Sixteen playoff teams will be announced on Nov. 23th, of which eight will be automatic qualifiers (the champions of the Atlantic 10, Big Sky, Gateway, MEAC, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern and Southland conferences) and eight chosen as at-large entries. A committee of I-AA directors of athletics will be asked to judge at-large teams on the following points - which come straight out of the NCAA manual:

1. The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket;

2. There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one conference;

3. The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, more than three losses will place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;

4. The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents; and

5. If the team of a committee member is under consideration, the member may not vote for the team being considered and will not be in the room when a vote is taken. Once they’ve got their 16, the committee will determine the top four seeds, and will attempt to fill in the rest of the bracket with potential regional matchups in mind. Two teams from the same conference cannot meet in the first round.



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Notice what is in bold, it didn't say anything about 1A or 1AA. But the sentence does infer that division II teams on schedule will be inferior to those schedules without division II teams, thus the NDSU will have an affect on where Griz will be placed.

How much it affects it really depends on how teams above the Griz fare this weekend, and how Griz do.

Since nobody really knows which teams are above the Griz (as all published polls are meaningless anyway), none of us will really be able to determine where Griz will finish up until they actually announce the pairings next sunday.
 
ronbo said:
The attitude some of the other fans from UMass, N. Iowa, etc. is that we should not be #1 in the GPI and we should not be #4 in most of the polls.

So where should we be because of that EARLY SEASON loss?

Should we get an 8 or 9 seed? That's what a lot of other schools fans think we should get. They are scared as hell to have to come here.

Either way I pity the school that has to play us even in Iowa or Louisiana. I think we should get all three road games and then we can drink beer during the whole game. :roll:
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There isn't such a thing as 8 or 9 seeds as there are only 4 seeds. Griz ARE going to be home for at least one game due to Griz record, and money.

You can refer to my previous post right before this as to what that earlier loss to NDSU may do.
 
True....

They don't officially announce an 8th seed, but 8 teams host, so they have to have a secret 1-16 that they follow.

The top 8 host the first game. Then the bottom eight are sent to play the tougher teams the lower you are rated. Sort of like McNeese vs. MSU last year. You gotta believe MSU was the lowest rated team in the tourney at 7-5 and they drew #1 McNeese the first game.

Even if we get just 1 home game, I'll bet NAU draws McNeese and they could beat them. I put a 50/50 chance we'll see NAU in the 2nd round at Missoula.
 
ronbo said:
True....

They don't officially announce an 8th seed, but 8 teams host, so they have to have a secret 1-16 that they follow.

The top 8 host the first game. Then the bottom eight are sent to play the tougher teams the lower you are rated. Sort of like McNeese vs. MSU last year. You gotta believe MSU was the lowest rated team in the tourney at 7-5 and they drew #1 McNeese the first game.

Even if we get just 1 home game, I'll bet NAU draws McNeese and they could beat them. I put a 50/50 chance we'll see NAU in the 2nd round at Missoula.
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Yes, 8 teams host, but there are still only 4 seeded teams.

The 4 seeded teams are picked in a different manner than the rest. Strength of schedule and record are used more when determining seeded teams.

After the 4 seeded teams are picked, they will determine the final 4 host sites with money being more of a factor. If Montana isn't a top 4 seed, it will still host whether Griz win or lose this week due to attendance. And Montana will be put in a bracket where travel is as limited as possible for whatever opponent that has to come to Missoula.

And If Montana is a top 4 seed, they still will match the Griz with an opponent that is relatively close.

As for MSU being the lowest rated, that maybe true, and if MSU was, then it was just coincidence. The committee is not going to send a school clear across the country to play an opponent in the first round.

McNeese has a good chance at being seeded number 1. NAU is not going to be worst team in the playoffs I can assure you that. But NAU will most likely go to McNeese State. And it won't be because NAU is the lowest rated team in the playoffs. Naturally, we will never know what team is rated the lowest due to the regionalization of the playoffs.
 
Is the number of games played considered? The GRIZ play a 12 game schedule while a number the teams squaking the loudest only played 11 games.
 
1. Montana will have played twelve games this year. Some will only play eleven. Montana will have played ten 1-AA games and one 1-A game. In addition, NDSU is moving to 1-AA (next year?).

2. Somewhere I saw that Montana had the seventh toughest 1-AA schedule this year. This should be the important factor.

3. This "regional seeding" thing is just awful. Most of the 1-AA teams are on the east coast anyway. The NCAA is being penny wise and pound foolish to save a few thousand dollars in travel costs at the expense of having games in places like Missoula where you can bring in 23,000 X $20 = $460,000.

And that brings up 4. The University of Montana charges MORE for regular season tickets than the NCAA allows UofM to charge for PLAYOFF tickets. Who was the friggin Einstein who came up with that?
 
My opinion is that if a Div. II win almost counts for nothing, and a Div. II loss is heavily counted against you.


Then why the hell are we playing Div. II schools????

It's a "NO WIN" situation!
 
ronbo said:
My opinion is that if a Div. II win almost counts for nothing, and a Div. II loss is heavily counted against you.


Then why the hell are we playing Div. II schools????

It's a "NO WIN" situation!
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You will need to talk to Hogan about that. I have stated before there is nothing to gain by playing division II games. Except for money.

But, there is hope if things play right that the Griz can get a top 4 seed. Find out next sunday.

But remember, the 1995 team was seeded 6th. So it isn't the end of the world not being a top 4 team. Never know what will happen once the teams get on the field and start playing. Like in 1995, upsets happen and Griz may still end up playing at home throughout the playoffs.
 
I hate this regionalization crap. How much cheaper is it to fly to Louisiana than to, say, Kentucky? Or vice versa. D I-AA proponents always brag about how we crown a true champion. Well, then, seed teams 1-16 and make them play it out in a true tourney format. Money should not be a consideration...

Yawn... okay, I just woke up and am coming back down to earth! The way this whole thing is run just pisses me off, though!
 
BozoneCat said:
I hate this regionalization crap. How much cheaper is it to fly to Louisiana than to, say, Kentucky? Or vice versa. D I-AA proponents always brag about how we crown a true champion. Well, then, seed teams 1-16 and make them play it out in a true tourney format. Money should not be a consideration...
quote]

I agree, the regionalized thing is crap.

In the last 2 seasons, i charted the miles of the first round games with who did play and if the games would have been seeded 1-16 and the milage was nearly the same.

As it sits now, the Griz will have no chance to play teams that are ranked low, ie Flordia Atlantic or International(whatever they're called) if they get in, Colgate(whom we'd crush), Bethune-Cookman, etc.
Nope, we'll end up playing a Gateway team, NAU, and McNeese.
It gets kinda old playing the same teams every year without even a chance of playing anyone from a conference other than the Gateway or Southland other than in the NC.
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This is an interesting thread. I never realized that a D2 loss could impact the home field advantage in the playoffs so much. NDSU will need to look very hard at that when it comes to continuing games with UND who is staying D2.
 
The regionalization thing is done entirely for the east coast teams. The goal of the committee is to create "as many bus trips as possible." It has no basis for the teams in the Big Sky who have to charter to go anywhere. The system works for some teams, but can penalize the teams out west.
 
D2 is regionalized as well. 4 teams from each of the four regions (6 next year) play the first 2 rounds in region. 2 more rounds out of region and a championship game. The top 16 teams have not been getting in because some regions dont even have 4 worthy teams. Changing it to 6 per region will help.

Its true regionalization is being promted and all divisions are discouraging inter divisional play. That makes transitions tough and Montana might be the best D1AA game we will see for several years. The only games we are going to find next year will be against teams that feel they dont have playoff chances in DIAA or D2. But, it looks to me that you guys are set. I dont think the loss to NDSU is going to hurt you much, if at all.
 
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