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Dane Oliver Named Sentinel Head Coach
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mtgrizrule
Well-known member
gah-riz said:mtgrizrule said:
St. Joseph's had middle school football. I'm not catholic, but if my kids enjoy football when they reach that age I will enroll them... Oh, and can't forget the academics
Will be interesting to see if enrollments at these schools go up? :thumb:
AllWeatherFan said:
That is because they can give them a little financial aid, and they will walk on. Nearly all of the players from Missoula are walk-ons, or are given partials (split several ways). There is rarely a full-ride offered in town, even when it is deserved.
grizcountry420
Well-known member
AllWeatherFan said:
You mad bro....
ALPHAGRIZ1 said:Missoula needs to field one 1AA team its the only way they will ever have a chance to compete with any of the other programs in the state.
Kids are raised way to soft in Zoo town.
That's what happens when a liberal town like Missoula, the only blue county in the state, tries to convince 16-18 year old kids that it is better to play sports in high school rather than getting body piercings, tats, baseball hats cocked to the side, dressed all in black, and wearing your pants down below your ass.
I think people are getting "Team" and "Individual" mixed up. An individual can still be a good football player going through the "Missoula" system of Little Grizzly football, but will lag well behind in the team concept developed by the methods used in most places.
The good news is that there is a new league being organized as we speak. It will be sanctioned by American Youth Fooball and will have leagues for players from the 3rd grade through 8th grade.
It is being organized by a group of motivated individuals with lots of football backgrounds(including NFL).
They have the backing and support of the local high school coaches.
They tried to "merge" with the little griz program but Hermes and his gang would not bend on some of the main points.
They will start this fall with the younger kids and work their way into it.
If anyone would like more info PM me and I can get you the contact info for the organizers.
It is being organized by a group of motivated individuals with lots of football backgrounds(including NFL).
They have the backing and support of the local high school coaches.
They tried to "merge" with the little griz program but Hermes and his gang would not bend on some of the main points.
They will start this fall with the younger kids and work their way into it.
If anyone would like more info PM me and I can get you the contact info for the organizers.
mtgrizrule
Well-known member
Grizzly4Life said:
This is GREAT. The leagues in the Denver area are outstanding. They have this advertised in a lot of places in the Aurora area.
jagur1 said:
That is a good question about the round table. I don't remember any Laurel kids being nominees. I know when I was in high school Vince Henman would've been in a heart beat if he could. But I can barely remember yesterday let alone 10 years ago. My favorite moment vs Central was our homecoming game. Central tried to get in our heads by sitting on the bus until kickoff. The warmed up in Billings. Drove to the game and just sat there. Pissed us off so we onside kicked it. Won 61-0. My senior year in basketball we beat Central at divisionals to keep them out of state. Some of my best friends are from Central though. Makes for a great rivalry.
I chime in with my two cents about the Missoula situation:
1. I do beleive the little grizzly football model is outdated. however I do believe we are tilting at windmills.
2. The problem with football in Missoula, was that aside from Eckegren, the past twenty five years of Missoula high school football has been chock full of incredibly mediocre high school football and football coaches. You can blame missoula youth football, but in all reality (minus the 92-95 years) Missoula high school football has been nothing but spectacularly awful.
Pete did a good job at selling Sentinel football, but the reality is that he won 18 games in his time at sentinel. Eck lost more than he won at Big Sky. Dohn and the R. L. Boyles era have been knightmares.
Really hard to develop a desire to play high school football in Missoula when you are going to get pounded by teams and coaching staffs that are far more prepared than yours. Eck (who I greatly idolized) developed great kids within his scheme and got the most out of them but that didn't mean much after 1994.
3. Going forward the mediocrity ends when coaches realize that what has always 'worked' in Missoula doesn't really work. For one, I just don't think that what happens in middle school has much relation as to what happens in high school. If kids are taught fundamentals at that level you can run whatever you want, but at the high school level the lack of excellent leadership by head coaches has led to programs that are spectacularly adrift.
I am not picking on Boyles, Joseph or Johnson, but this isn't about talent really nor is it about middle school football programs. You have to change culture and it doesn't change over night. Some have tried and eventually succombed to the culture. Oliver has a lot of work to do at Sentinel, and much of it has nothing at all to do with the talent he'll put on the field on Friday nights in September nor what little grizzly football is doing.
1. I do beleive the little grizzly football model is outdated. however I do believe we are tilting at windmills.
2. The problem with football in Missoula, was that aside from Eckegren, the past twenty five years of Missoula high school football has been chock full of incredibly mediocre high school football and football coaches. You can blame missoula youth football, but in all reality (minus the 92-95 years) Missoula high school football has been nothing but spectacularly awful.
Pete did a good job at selling Sentinel football, but the reality is that he won 18 games in his time at sentinel. Eck lost more than he won at Big Sky. Dohn and the R. L. Boyles era have been knightmares.
Really hard to develop a desire to play high school football in Missoula when you are going to get pounded by teams and coaching staffs that are far more prepared than yours. Eck (who I greatly idolized) developed great kids within his scheme and got the most out of them but that didn't mean much after 1994.
3. Going forward the mediocrity ends when coaches realize that what has always 'worked' in Missoula doesn't really work. For one, I just don't think that what happens in middle school has much relation as to what happens in high school. If kids are taught fundamentals at that level you can run whatever you want, but at the high school level the lack of excellent leadership by head coaches has led to programs that are spectacularly adrift.
I am not picking on Boyles, Joseph or Johnson, but this isn't about talent really nor is it about middle school football programs. You have to change culture and it doesn't change over night. Some have tried and eventually succombed to the culture. Oliver has a lot of work to do at Sentinel, and much of it has nothing at all to do with the talent he'll put on the field on Friday nights in September nor what little grizzly football is doing.
ilovethecats
Well-known member
Grizzly4Life said:
that is great. i'm going to have a nephew going through the system in a few years and i'll be damned to let him get his first athletic experience in something so ridiculous. where should we send our donations? this has been an eye-opener for me. i'll be happy to help. :thumb:
I totally agree the culture of Missoula High School football needs to change. Obviously easier said than done. Still, to me the place to start is to have these kids play together from the moment they begin organized football. This would help strengthen the "team" idea that is so important. To be honest, little griz is really more about the individual, not the team.
I'll take a contrary view. Little Griz football is fine. I've just had a kid go through it. Sure, some things could be changed or improved. However, the basics are there. I would like there to be middle school football, mainly because it would avoid the problems and favoritism caused by parents coaching. I agree that running a similar system as the high schools starting in the 5th grade might make for better teams later on, but jeez, who wants to run the same system for 8 years. Talk about boring. I also don't buy the playing-together argument. There are lots of Little Griz teams. Even if the teams were grouped by high school area, no team would have more than a few kids who would be playing high school ball as juniors and seniors.
There are some very good coaches in LIttle Griz. They put in huge effort and time. Some of them are former high school coaches, and some are former college players. Some of these guys are better than some of the high school coaches, in my view. One of my favorite memories of Little Griz was watching former Griz and NFL center Guy Bingham show 5th graders how to center the ball.
The biggest problem with the lack of success of Missoula AA schools is their very small enrollments, compared to other AA schools and powers. Of course, there are some other problems too, as has been pointed out, but this is the biggest one.
There are some very good coaches in LIttle Griz. They put in huge effort and time. Some of them are former high school coaches, and some are former college players. Some of these guys are better than some of the high school coaches, in my view. One of my favorite memories of Little Griz was watching former Griz and NFL center Guy Bingham show 5th graders how to center the ball.
The biggest problem with the lack of success of Missoula AA schools is their very small enrollments, compared to other AA schools and powers. Of course, there are some other problems too, as has been pointed out, but this is the biggest one.
ALPHAGRIZ1
Well-known member
PlayerRep said:
The kids are soft because they are raised that way. It has nothing to do with enrollment, they have plenty of bodies to choose from its just that most of the kids in Missoula pop out of the womb with no chance in life unless its handed to them by their parents.
WaGriz4life
Well-known member
That's great. If I still lived in Missoula I would Definately help get that league going. Anything to stop Hermes' ridiculous league.Grizzly4Life said:
The enrollment crutch has been used as a reason for terrible missoula football programs forever. I call B.S.. If that were the case then Flathead would have won about twenty consecutive state titles in all sports if that were the case.
Football isn't about quantity it is about quality. If you want to read a good book on how to develop football programs regardless of the level is suggest reading "Our Boys" about the program was built in Smith Center Kansas.
If Missoula wants to compete at the AA level of Montana they have to increase the quantity of quality just not numbers. The reason that Jack Johnson's CMR programs were good wasn't because he could suit up 99 kids on Friday night but rather that 77 of those 99 that suited up could compete at that level. Missoula programs have been beset not by numbers but the lack of quality from 1 to 50 on the varsity program.
I have coached in two districts in Montana and one in Idaho, and good football programs are about culture. Two teams in the league I coach in generally produce anywhere between 125 and 150 kids in those programs and they win about 2 or 3 games on average. They get kids out, but the football they play is absolutely putrid.
Missoula doesn't demand good football coaching but we sure do in Basketball. Football at Frenchtown matters more than football at Big Sky, Sentinel or Hellgate. That is culture that isn't about numbers. I have learned a lot since I started coaching a decade ago and from a lot of AA coaches outside of Missoula. One guy said to me about a decade ago, Missoula wastes more football talent than any other city in the state minus Kalispell.
Football isn't about quantity it is about quality. If you want to read a good book on how to develop football programs regardless of the level is suggest reading "Our Boys" about the program was built in Smith Center Kansas.
If Missoula wants to compete at the AA level of Montana they have to increase the quantity of quality just not numbers. The reason that Jack Johnson's CMR programs were good wasn't because he could suit up 99 kids on Friday night but rather that 77 of those 99 that suited up could compete at that level. Missoula programs have been beset not by numbers but the lack of quality from 1 to 50 on the varsity program.
I have coached in two districts in Montana and one in Idaho, and good football programs are about culture. Two teams in the league I coach in generally produce anywhere between 125 and 150 kids in those programs and they win about 2 or 3 games on average. They get kids out, but the football they play is absolutely putrid.
Missoula doesn't demand good football coaching but we sure do in Basketball. Football at Frenchtown matters more than football at Big Sky, Sentinel or Hellgate. That is culture that isn't about numbers. I have learned a lot since I started coaching a decade ago and from a lot of AA coaches outside of Missoula. One guy said to me about a decade ago, Missoula wastes more football talent than any other city in the state minus Kalispell.
