court ruling on Northwestern

[NewPapaBear]

Listen, I don't have all the answers & I already know that many of you are going to come after me , but I believe that athletes in "revenue producing sports" should receive a share of the take in a direct monetary form (i.e. actual currency).

Operating & administering an NCAA athletic program that is generating substantial revenue, which must legally be appropriately, accurately & justly defined by an unbiased neutral party, is definitely running a business.

People go into to business to deliver a product or service to the public or private sector to "make money" period. NCAA programs that exceed these current unknown & un-established criteria should be legally bound to pay these athletes.

In 2010 The NCAA announced it has reached a 14-year, nearly $11 billion agreement with CBS and Turner Sports for the TV rights to the tournament we sports fans know & love as March Madness. http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2011-11-02/ncaa-participation-rates-going" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many people question the national letter of intent is a legal binding contract. We know that players must seek & be granted permission (release from said contract) in order to leave one program for another in most cases.

PLEASE NOTE: The National Letter of Intent is a bind­ing agree­ment between a prospec­tive student-athlete and an NLI mem­ber insti­tu­tion. When the NLI is signed, a prospec­tive student-athlete is agree­ing to attend the insti­tu­tion as a full-time stu­dent for a full aca­d­e­mic year (two semes­ters or three quar­ters). The insti­tu­tion is agree­ing to pro­vide the student-athlete with ath­letic finan­cial aid for that same academic year.

Until the NLOI until such a time comes that the athletes can move freely from university to university and/or college to college without seeking permission or being restricted in their pursuit of such an opportunity, the athletes whom efforts on & off the field are attached to revenue generation while under the terms of the agreement (solely IMO) should receive compensation.

It is all about labor law definition & interpretation in the "private" sector. It’s a different type of process at the public facing state level, where most programs like UM participate. What complicates things is that these laws differ from state-to-state. Ultimately, I just want to see a standardized process to rectifying this on-going issue.

Northwest is more focused on out of pocket medical expenses, that parents like me have to personally absorb & post career health benefits. The term student-athlete was legally crafted years ago to try & protect the NCAA. Time has come, the NCAA needs to step in, play nice & make this right.

I have to agree, at least on the medical. My son blew an ACL. Even with our insurance it cost thousands with travel rehab etc. The worst of course is they yanked his scholarship because he had to withdraw mid-semster. I realize this outcome can vary widley. Some repairs take better than others. His didn't.

40-50-60 hour weeks at NCAA programs for the football/basketball programs among the higher level schools is the norm. It's not about the professional aspects to me either. I for one believe that tuition room & board is a part of the compensation.

Student/Athletes are regularly forced to "settle" for a different degree than what they truly want to study at said university. This is due to the time demands put upon them from the athletic program that forces them into this area of academic .

However, its the out of pocket medical expenses, no insurance & no form of recourse when injuries sustained during your college career are carried into your post playing days OR your scholly gets yanked because of said injury & you are forced to leave school as the example above is what this is really about.

Plus, a stipend for the TRUE cost of attending a university would be more than fair & appropriate. Would you not agree?

 

[PlayerRep]

I like the ruling. From a Washington Post article:

"The specific goals of CAPA include guaranteeing coverage of sports-related medical expenses for current and former players, reducing head injuries and potentially letting players pursue commercial sponsorships.

Outgoing Wildcats quarterback Kain Colter took a leading role in establishing CAPA. The United Steelworkers union has been footing the legal bills.

Colter, who has entered the NFL draft, said nearly all of the 85 scholarship players on the Wildcats roster backed the union bid, though only he expressed his support publicly.

He said the No. 1 reason to unionize was to ensure injured players have their medical needs met."

 

[FosterGrant]

The ruling only effects private schools, not public universities.

So far.

Consider, though, the lowly domino. Knock one over and all the rest go with it in order.

Even if this decision doesn't stand, this is the beginning of the end. The whole system of college sports is going to have to change or collapse. The problem is that, in their shortsightedness and their greed, the NCAA and the college presidents it represents almost have guaranteed that the process will be sudden and bloody. If they had worked with their athletes toward some sort of soft landing over the past 20 years, all of that might have been avoided. I always has reminded me of how Bill Veeck once warned his fellow baseball owners that the reserve clause was blatantly illegal and that it would one day fall and, if they were smart, they'd abandon it so that they could better control the fallout. If they didn't, Veeck cautioned, then some judge would strike it down all at once and baseball would be thrown into chaos. The other owners ignored Veeck, and his scenario came to pass, and we were treated to 30 years of labor strife because of it.

The current system of college athletics is doomed. It is untenable, and now it's under assault from too many directions. There's the O'Bannon case in Los Angeles, and Jeff Kessler's anti-trust suit against the NCAA, and now this. Somebody better seriously start thinking of negotiating the terms of the inevitable surrender.

NLRB Says College Athletes Can Unionize - The Earthquake In College Sports Is Here - Esquire

 

[PlayerRep]

The ruling only effects private schools, not public universities.

So far.

Consider, though, the lowly domino. Knock one over and all the rest go with it in order.

Even if this decision doesn't stand, this is the beginning of the end. The whole system of college sports is going to have to change or collapse. The problem is that, in their shortsightedness and their greed, the NCAA and the college presidents it represents almost have guaranteed that the process will be sudden and bloody. If they had worked with their athletes toward some sort of soft landing over the past 20 years, all of that might have been avoided. I always has reminded me of how Bill Veeck once warned his fellow baseball owners that the reserve clause was blatantly illegal and that it would one day fall and, if they were smart, they'd abandon it so that they could better control the fallout. If they didn't, Veeck cautioned, then some judge would strike it down all at once and baseball would be thrown into chaos. The other owners ignored Veeck, and his scenario came to pass, and we were treated to 30 years of labor strife because of it.

The current system of college athletics is doomed. It is untenable, and now it's under assault from too many directions. There's the O'Bannon case in Los Angeles, and Jeff Kessler's anti-trust suit against the NCAA, and now this. Somebody better seriously start thinking of negotiating the terms of the inevitable surrender.

NLRB Says College Athletes Can Unionize - The Earthquake In College Sports Is Here - Esquire

I agree with this article. Making the major sports into large money-making machines and businesses, yet trying to treat the athletes as amateurs, is untenable. There are too many people/forces attacking college sports and the ncaa. The current system will not survive--nor should it.

 

[Grizzly Oredigger]

A quote from Tennessee senator Lamar Alexander (I know this is directed at basketball, but you get the point):
“Imagine a university’s basketball players striking before a Sweet Sixteen game demanding shorter practices, bigger dorm rooms, better food, and no classes before 11 a.m. This is an absurd decision that will destroy intercollegiate athletics as we know it.”

 

[statler & waldorf]

Seems this is an attempt to obliterate the distinction between professional and amateur. Players now can opt out and play in the pro's.....and get paid. They are employees of the team. Of course their college eligibility is forfeit. Northwestern players want to be considered employees....that play football as their "job" and get paid, nevermind the $75,000/year education they get currently. Wouldn't this new ruling eliminate their eligibility the second they are paid? Currently, the NCAA dings players for eating hot dogs with tailgaters, eating extra pasta at a "free" pasta bar, or just flat out taking cash. They have opened up a can of worms that will devour college sports.....or the NCAA.

 

[PlayerRep]

Seems this is an attempt to obliterate the distinction between professional and amateur. Players now can opt out and play in the pro's.....and get paid. They are employees of the team. Of course their college eligibility is forfeit. Northwestern players want to be considered employees....that play football as their "job" and get paid, nevermind the $75,000/year education they get currently. Wouldn't this new ruling eliminate their eligibility the second they are paid? Currently, the NCAA dings players for eating hot dogs with tailgaters, eating extra pasta at a "free" pasta bar, or just flat out taking cash. They have opened up a can of worms that will devour college sports.....or the NCAA.

The NW players are not asking to get paid, above their scholarships. See above posts. A large reason for the NLRB ruling for the players was because the board ruled that the scholarships were in effect wages.

 

[ranco]

Seems this is an attempt to obliterate the distinction between professional and amateur. Players now can opt out and play in the pro's.....and get paid. They are employees of the team. Of course their college eligibility is forfeit. Northwestern players want to be considered employees....that play football as their "job" and get paid, nevermind the $75,000/year education they get currently. Wouldn't this new ruling eliminate their eligibility the second they are paid? Currently, the NCAA dings players for eating hot dogs with tailgaters, eating extra pasta at a "free" pasta bar, or just flat out taking cash. They have opened up a can of worms that will devour college sports.....or the NCAA.

The NW players are not asking to get paid, above their scholarships. See above posts. A large reason for the NLRB ruling for the players was because the board ruled that the scholarships were in effect wages.

That's true, but I have to believe if the players unionized that they would strive to get benefits that a prohibited by the NCAA. I think this has great potential to totally change the way the NCAA regulates college sports and athletes. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm sure it has the NCAA quaking in its shoes.

 

[Grizzoola]

My view of this is, it's about time. Stop the hypocrisy of these athletes being students. They are given scholarships on their ATHLETIC ability, not their academic ability. It's a farce. These people are semi-pros and should be treated as such, and that is what this decision is all about.

They are being paid to play their sport. Period. And, the decision has stated as much, that athletic scholarships are for the athletics, and not the academics. Look at how much money is spent keeping these people academically eligible. They receive far more tutoring than regular students, force-fed their courses. Plus, the travel time, away from a regular college experience.

It's a farce and has been, all in the name of money. I don't know where this issue is going to wind up, but I believe football and basketball teams are going to have to create farm systems like that in baseball. Why do talented football and basketball players need a college education, when talented baseball players don't?

Yes, there're college baseball programs despite the farm systems. Players have the option to attend college or go directly into the pros. It should be the way of football, basketball, and other talented sports players.

This is a good move by the NLRB. I applaud it, and I hope the decision is upheld by higher authorities/courts, because it reflects the reality of what's been happening & time to call a spade a spade.

 

[PlayerRep]

Seems this is an attempt to obliterate the distinction between professional and amateur. Players now can opt out and play in the pro's.....and get paid. They are employees of the team. Of course their college eligibility is forfeit. Northwestern players want to be considered employees....that play football as their "job" and get paid, nevermind the $75,000/year education they get currently. Wouldn't this new ruling eliminate their eligibility the second they are paid? Currently, the NCAA dings players for eating hot dogs with tailgaters, eating extra pasta at a "free" pasta bar, or just flat out taking cash. They have opened up a can of worms that will devour college sports.....or the NCAA.

The NW players are not asking to get paid, above their scholarships. See above posts. A large reason for the NLRB ruling for the players was because the board ruled that the scholarships were in effect wages.

That's true, but I have to believe if the players unionized that they would strive to get benefits that a prohibited by the NCAA. I think this has great potential to totally change the way the NCAA regulates college sports and athletes. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm sure it has the NCAA quaking in its shoes.

I agree with you.

 

[ordigger]

So if I'm a work study student, do I get to join the union too? Technically I would be an employee also of the school. And how about all those academics, who earn scholarships, and attract massive grants and endowments, should they get to join the union too? If I sell programs at the football game, I'm an employee so guess I get to join too.

Crazy times are going to get more bizarre.....how long before Congress weighs in?

 

[zengriz]

...let'z be brief...
...unions are a great concept...
...then the union guyz think they're entitled...
...and that fcuks up.. the whole fcuking concept...

... :roll: ...

 

[ordigger]

For the lawyers....


The 45-year-old case is Bingler v. Johnson and focuses on Richard Johnson, who received a scholarship to go back to school by his employer, Westinghouse, based on the condition that he returned to the company. Johnson argued that the scholarship money was not taxable, but the IRS successfully countered and prevailed all the way up to the Supreme Court, maintaining that any amount related to employment services were not exempt. The ruling specifically mentions that compensation that is bargained for, which is what the Northwestern players would be seeking to do by forming a union, is excluded from scholarship funds and is to be reported as income.

Anyone familiar with this case? ESPN is reporting this case could be the blueprint for tax liability on scholarships if Northwestern unionizes.

 

[PlayerRep]

Interesting. My reaction is that a ruling by the NLRB probably doesn't impact the tax laws and IRS views athletic scholarships. However, I suppose the IRS could look at the arguments that the players made regarding the scholarships, or part of them, being payment for their services. I'm not sure why the IRS would want to do that, or get into that area and potential mess. Here's some of the IRS specifics from an ESPN article:

"Section 117 of the Internal Revenue Service code provides that "gross income does not include any amount received as a qualified scholarship by an individual who is a candidate for a degree at an educational organization" as long as that money goes towards educational expenses. An IRS rule that was established in 1986 stated athletic scholarships are no different than financial aid or academic scholarships with respect to the tax code.

But if the players are defined as employees, the limitation of the code could come into play. The code notes that the exclusion "shall not apply to that portion of any amounts received which represents payment for ... services by the student required as a condition for receiving the qualified scholarship."

In addition, I see no reason that unionization would make athletic scholarships, or part of them, income that would be taxed by the IRS. Unionization doesn't change the nature of the scholarships. Negotiating to get more money, or to get paid, might be different, tho.

My reaction is that any IRS position that athletic scholarships, or part of them, are payment for services, and should be taxable, would apply to all athletic scholarships--not just to teams that unionized.

 

[ranco]

For the lawyers....


The 45-year-old case is Bingler v. Johnson and focuses on Richard Johnson, who received a scholarship to go back to school by his employer, Westinghouse, based on the condition that he returned to the company. Johnson argued that the scholarship money was not taxable, but the IRS successfully countered and prevailed all the way up to the Supreme Court, maintaining that any amount related to employment services were not exempt. The ruling specifically mentions that compensation that is bargained for, which is what the Northwestern players would be seeking to do by forming a union, is excluded from scholarship funds and is to be reported as income.

Anyone familiar with this case? ESPN is reporting this case could be the blueprint for tax liability on scholarships if Northwestern unionizes.

Perhaps the most problematic aspect of the decision for universities and the NCAA, is that it defines student athletes that receive scholarships as employees. If that is the case, then a whole slew of employment laws could apply to any athlete receiving a scholarship - this might include worker's compensation, wrongful termination etc...

 

[Yukon]

no union:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/national-labor-board-sacks-ruling-to-allow-college-athletes-to-unionize-northwestern/

 

[kemajic]

how long before Congress weighs in?

What a solution that would afford.....

 

[kemajic]

My view of this is, it's about time. Stop the hypocrisy of these athletes being students. They are given scholarships on their ATHLETIC ability, not their academic ability. It's a farce. These people are semi-pros and should be treated as such, and that is what this decision is all about.

They are being paid to play their sport. Period. And, the decision has stated as much, that athletic scholarships are for the athletics, and not the academics. Look at how much money is spent keeping these people academically eligible. They receive far more tutoring than regular students, force-fed their courses.

Stereotype much? I'd love for you to have a discussion with Derek Crittenden.

 

[SaskGriz]

My view of this is, it's about time. Stop the hypocrisy of these athletes being students. They are given scholarships on their ATHLETIC ability, not their academic ability. It's a farce. These people are semi-pros and should be treated as such, and that is what this decision is all about.

They are being paid to play their sport. Period. And, the decision has stated as much, that athletic scholarships are for the athletics, and not the academics. Look at how much money is spent keeping these people academically eligible. They receive far more tutoring than regular students, force-fed their courses.

Stereotype much? I'd love for you to have a discussion with Derek Crittenden.

This +1 :thumb:

 

[Griz2k]

no union:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/national-labor-board-sacks-ruling-to-allow-college-athletes-to-unionize-northwestern/

:clap: