Cornerback, the weakest link in 2012?

[Pounder29]

I'm fine with a corner who doesn't make mistakes, tackles well, and is reasonably good in coverage. In coverage, a corner can get it done with any combination of smarts, lack of mistakes, correct anticipation, quickness and speed--just as long he's in reasonably good coverage position when the ball arrives. I don't care as much about height, weight, arm length or speed. All of those things help, of course, but there are other important factors and criteria, and the other things can compensate for lack of those 4 things. A smart and consistent corner who can tackle will make good and quick decisions, and get to the ball or ball carrier.

Player all great points,- Correct anticipation i.e. jumping the route no matter how right it can be disaterous but it is a part of the game, risk for the reward. Quickness- Driving to the ball again going back to correct anticipation, Speed as we all know, there are no 40s in a game however can the DB close and gain back the ground when flipping their hips? As for being position when the ball arrives depends on everything that you stated, but I do believe that with the rules in favor of the offense, being smart, and having good coverage isn't enough. All the physical attributes, length, height come into play in my opinion those are some very important factors as well. Just my opinion.

 

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Add in that the other front-running teams all have taller WRs, such as EWU who I think has at least 2 if not 3 that are at or over 6-3 and I think having a taller corner or two helps.

Kaufman 6-5
Edwards 6-3
Herd 6-3
Mitchell 6-2

 

[PlayerRep]

I'm fine with a corner who doesn't make mistakes, tackles well, and is reasonably good in coverage. In coverage, a corner can get it done with any combination of smarts, lack of mistakes, correct anticipation, quickness and speed--just as long he's in reasonably good coverage position when the ball arrives. I don't care as much about height, weight, arm length or speed. All of those things help, of course, but there are other important factors and criteria, and the other things can compensate for lack of those 4 things. A smart and consistent corner who can tackle will make good and quick decisions, and get to the ball or ball carrier.

Player all great points,- Correct anticipation i.e. jumping the route no matter how right it can be disaterous but it is a part of the game, risk for the reward. Quickness- Driving to the ball again going back to correct anticipation, Speed as we all know, there are no 40s in a game however can the DB close and gain back the ground when flipping their hips? As for being position when the ball arrives depends on everything that you stated, but I do believe that with the rules in favor of the offense, being smart, and having good coverage isn't enough. All the physical attributes, length, height come into play in my opinion those are some very important factors as well. Just my opinion.

I should have included technique and discipline in my original post. They are very important, especially if some of the other purely physical attributes are a bit lacking.

By saying "correct anticipation", I was trying to indicate that it was the right read/decision, not a guess or gamble, and thus not ever disastrous. Some people make corrects reads and decisions almost all the time, and aren't taking chances. Some people are gambling.

Most passes are completed when the receiver is open or wide open, and most TD passes occur when the receiver is open or wide open or a tackle is missed. They don't occur because the corner was a few inches too short or the corner's arms were several inches too short. Quickness is always important. Speed helps greatly, but technique, decision-making and smart play, as well as physical play, can make up for not having great speed on most routes. College corners with great speed often don't have great technique, because their speed compensated for the lack of technique.

I'll take a Tim Hauck kind of player any day. I know he didn't play corner.

Some of this analysis doesn't apply to the NFL play.

 

[PTGrizzly]

I agree that the CB is one of the bigger question marks this year. However I'm not sold on the idea that taller is necessarily better. I like Murray's size, but I'd rather have 4 CB's at 5'8 to 5'10 in the 190 range with good closing speed, eye hand coordination and can hit like canonball.

The assumption that a tall wideout will overshadow a short corner is still unproven, although I agree it is only a matter of time. Right now, give me a short corner who can close and hit and I'll take my chances. A couple of real good pops and even the sturdiest of wide receivers will think twice.

On the downside and more specific to the NFL, smaller corner's do have issues with the size & skills of today's tight ends. The better argument for getting bigger at CB is to protect against 6'6 240-260 pound tight ends as compared to a 6'5 200 lb wideout.

Gaeilege1- I agree with some of the justification for size and speed, but I also will counter with length, the arm length that is. Probably a small thing to be picking at, but it is something to be considered.
The short corner thougth process I have is that, the 6'5 WR with skills can take advantage of the size difference and it can be exploited as a weak link in the chain, this is just a thought to defensive schemes and such.

Whatever defense the Grizz decide to play, the 3-4 or the 4-3 LBs are still going to be responsible for the TE coming inside i.e slant or arrow route, requiring them to cover that ground. Yes in the league a TE can and is going deep down field. My opinionis 190 lbs is a 190 ibs regardless of what size is bringing it on the field. My like on the taller DB is that I believe that the hand fighting that goes on and the poetential stride for stride if he has the speed would better suite a tall DB. Just an opinion.

As for the overshawdow being unproven, recently in other leagues of college ball the DBs are becoming taller, Dre Kirkpatrick from Alabama 6'1, Patrick Peterson LSU a few years ago 6', Darrell "my Island" Revis 6'1, and the horrible Cormartie is 6'2. I respect your analysis but height can make a difference in a conference that has WRs in the 6'3 to 6'6 range. The TEs going down field are former track guys and most DBs come form the same back ground, so I believe that you would give up some ground with the shorter DBs in the stride for stride defense. I appreciate the football talk on the board..

It doesn't really matter, but just for accuracy sake, Revis is 5'11. In general I think that CB's tend to be a little shorter just because taller people don't have the hip swivel or hip flexibility needed to turn and run with WR's. That's why you so often see these tall college CB's get converted to Safety for the NFL. Obviously there are always exceptions, but that's just how it typically goes.

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

One of my favorite Grizzly CBs, Keith Thompson, was on the shorter side. Although, I will agree that length is an advantage in a corner's ability to defend large recievers. Athleticism, toughness, closing speed, and flexibility is more important than length in my opinion though. At our level, it is difficult to recruit CBs that have those attributes along with size. There are a lot of good corners out there that get overlooked by FBS level programs for being "too short". I think these are good targets for us to target as long as they have the toughness and work ethic to ball.

 

[Pounder29]

I'm fine with a corner who doesn't make mistakes, tackles well, and is reasonably good in coverage. In coverage, a corner can get it done with any combination of smarts, lack of mistakes, correct anticipation, quickness and speed--just as long he's in reasonably good coverage position when the ball arrives. I don't care as much about height, weight, arm length or speed. All of those things help, of course, but there are other important factors and criteria, and the other things can compensate for lack of those 4 things. A smart and consistent corner who can tackle will make good and quick decisions, and get to the ball or ball carrier.

Player all great points,- Correct anticipation i.e. jumping the route no matter how right it can be disaterous but it is a part of the game, risk for the reward. Quickness- Driving to the ball again going back to correct anticipation, Speed as we all know, there are no 40s in a game however can the DB close and gain back the ground when flipping their hips? As for being position when the ball arrives depends on everything that you stated, but I do believe that with the rules in favor of the offense, being smart, and having good coverage isn't enough. All the physical attributes, length, height come into play in my opinion those are some very important factors as well. Just my opinion.

I should have included technique and discipline in my original post. They are very important, especially if some of the other purely physical attributes are a bit lacking.

By saying "correct anticipation", I was trying to indicate that it was the right read/decision, not a guess or gamble, and thus not ever disastrous. Some people make corrects reads and decisions almost all the time, and aren't taking chances. Some people are gambling.

Most passes are completed when the receiver is open or wide open, and most TD passes occur when the receiver is open or wide open or a tackle is missed. They don't occur because the corner was a few inches too short or the corner's arms were several inches too short. Quickness is always important. Speed helps greatly, but technique, decision-making and smart play, as well as physical play, can make up for not having great speed on most routes. College corners with great speed often don't have great technique, because their speed compensated for the lack of technique.

I'll take a Tim Hauck kind of player any day. I know he didn't play corner.

Some of this analysis doesn't apply to the NFL play.

Player- I understand your point of view, I would rather have a technician who knows the craft than a athlete with the alledged total package to play the position. Techenique is so key in the position it does overide height, and length aspect. I concur. Not familair with the player you reference but hopefully if he is still on the team or in the league of sort I'll get a chance to see him play. I concur that some of this analysis does not apply to the NFL.

You last line about "College corners with great speed often don't have great technique, because their speed compensated for the lack of technique". I love it, if you look at an SEC game it's more of a track meet sometimes when the DBs and WRS are out there.

Just and opinion

 

[indian-outlaw]

Here is a 5'11" DB vs a 6'5" receiver. Both Desmond Trufant and Brandon Kaufman will most likely be NFL Players.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Here is a 5'11" DB vs a 6'5" receiver. Both Desmond Trufant and Brandon Kaufman will most likely be NFL Players.

Thats not possible......the picture was obviously photoshopped. :roll:

 

[BWahlberg]

Bad placement on that throw, inside. If that were on the WRs back hip I don't think any corner could've played that - however that's more of an NFL-esque throw/demand rather than than something you see much in the FCS.

 

[indian-outlaw]

Bad placement on that throw, inside. If that were on the WRs back hip I don't think any corner could've played that - however that's more of an NFL-esque throw/demand rather than than something you see much in the FCS.

So you're saying it has more to do with QB ball placement than it does with the height of the players involved? I think that's the point.

 

[Grizmayor]

Anybody remember Mickey??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Sutton_(cornerback" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

Look to the right of the page... 5'8", 165 lbs. soaking wet. I saw him in '89 in a preseason game against the Jets in Milwaukee suited out with the Pack. He looked like the towel boy on the field... but when I hollared "Hey Mickie... GO GRIZ!" I got a fist pump. The kid had quicks and could stick to anyone.

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

Continuing some per position discussions the cornerback crew is probably the biggest unknown coming into the season.

I would agree that CB is the biggest unknown coming into the season, however in my mind it is not the weakest link in 2012. That would POTENTIALLY be interior DL.

HOWEVER, this is all POTENTIAL because it hasn't happened yet.

Hopefully there ends up being no weak link.

 

[IntuitiveGriz]

There's also our incoming freshman and JuCo transfers to add into the mix, JR Nelson is a taller freshman coming in but as I recall overall speed might not be there just yet (didn't he have a slower 40 time?). Also there's JuCo transfer Anthony Goodwin who is another good sized guy (6-1, 190) with good speed (training video lists a 4.38 - 40). A lot of times cornerback transfers have a rough adjustment period (Dodson in 2009, Roots in 2010) but if Goodwin can step up that would be a huge help to the team.

I love J.R. Nelson, I think he has the potential to be one of the best athletes we've recruited in a while. Tremendously athletic...