Cat-Griz Insider just wrote:

[kemajic]

Many people believe Engstrom does not want the Grizzlies to excel in athletics because he doesn't want our school to be known for that. There are MANY professors at the U who agree with him and wish athletics would just go away so we're simply known as a smaller liberal arts college. Engstrom said he supported athletics and would help find ways to get additional revenue to the football program to make facility improvements as well as match donor contributions. He has already backed off both of those things and will most likely force the Athletic Department to pay for Pflugrad and O'days contract. Make no mistake, Engstrom does not think he's strengthening the athletic department by firing those two. He knows this will hurt athletics, but doesn't care, because he doesn't think they are important at all.

Please name one professor that does not want the Grizzlies to be good. What a load of bullshit!

We obviously had some different professors. My political theory professor spoke openly after the house robbery near campus about how she thinks the football program should lose funding because that's all people care about and its hurting our image. I had another professor who taught a philanthropy course who proudly claimed she has never gone to a Grizzly sporting event and never will. I'm sure these two are not alone. I have friends who have heard similar things from professors.

Anyone who thinks the UM faculty is 100% behind Griz football is amaziingly naive. There is a significant portion of the faculty, disporportionatly female, that detests the attention and support devoted to football. There is substantial envy that their departments do not get the accolades or money coming in that football gets. This group puts pressure on RE at every opportunity and the sexual assault accusations have been their best opening in years.

 

[Noches de Passion]

I don't doubt that there are a significant number of faculty members at UM who regularly trash the athletics program. Having experienced some of them, I would add that these type of "people" have an incredibly skewed life perspective. If they were at top notch athletic and academic institutions like Michigan or Southern Cal, they would be spewing the same kind of crap there as well. They contribute to stunting our school's growth AND Missoula's growth.

That being said, there isn't any reason why UM can't be both an outstanding academic institution as well as an outstanding athletic destination as well. The two aren't mutually exclusive. If those same professors weren't so intolerable, maybe they would say something like "this scandal hurts the reputation of the entire school, not just athletics." And could we argue with them? No. Whether or not this scandal will be proven or disproven is irrelevant at this point. What matters now is how we respond to it. The reputation damage has already occured. The newspaper articles have already been published, and there isn't much we can do now. Like most things, time can cure these problems and we can get back to having our excellence on the field AND in the classroom.

For those who still believe they are entitled to know why JOD and RP were fired, I would again direct you east to Bozeman. You aren't entitled to know why, unless you want to foot the bill for the lawsuit that would immediately arise for firing either with cause. You may be entitled to know email exchanges back and forth on government computers using tax payer dollars, but your quest for knowledge is not worth $225,000. Donate that money to a new locker room and better facilities. We need to be thinking a little more longer term here; boycotting Lee Enterprises and constantly hoping JOD and RP are rehired is undoubtedly short term, limited logic.

 

[argh!]

the vast majority of um professors, etc, are big supporters of griz football. to think otherwise is what is naive.

 

[PlayerRep]

For those who still believe they are entitled to know why JOD and RP were fired, I would again direct you east to Bozeman. You aren't entitled to know why, unless you want to foot the bill for the lawsuit that would immediately arise for firing either with cause. You may be entitled to know email exchanges back and forth on government computers using tax payer dollars, but your quest for knowledge is not worth $225,000. Donate that money to a new locker room and better facilities. We need to be thinking a little more longer term here; boycotting Lee Enterprises and constantly hoping JOD and RP are rehired is undoubtedly short term, limited logic.

Actually, given all the damage to UM's and Engstrom's reputation from the silence on the firings, I think it would be worthwhile for UM to pay $225,000, or even $225,000 times 2, for Engstrom to be able to explain everything. This issue isn't going away. It's festering and smoldering. It's impacting fund-raising negatively. My take is that Engstrom really doesn't have any specific reasons, except perhaps smaller things, and his reasons were big picture ones, which may or may not have been valid. As I have said all along, doing what it is right and best for a company or institution cannot be dictated by legal concerns. Legal concerns are only one of several important factors. I have been involved, numerous times, in advising companies and institutions, and in helping make decisions like this, in similar situations for over 30 years. A company/institution shouldn't let legal concerns run or dictate various important decisions the company/institution, although, of course, legal factors must be analyzed and taken into account.

 

[maroonandsilver]

Really Tokyo? Engstrom's life long goal is to destroy the Grizzly Athletic Department? What the fug is this outcome going to do for him exactly?

Many people believe Engstrom does not want the Grizzlies to excel in athletics because he doesn't want our school to be known for that. There are MANY professors at the U who agree with him and wish athletics would just go away so we're simply known as a smaller liberal arts college. Engstrom said he supported athletics and would help find ways to get additional revenue to the football program to make facility improvements as well as match donor contributions. He has already backed off both of those things and will most likely force the Athletic Department to pay for Pflugrad and O'days contract. Make no mistake, Engstrom does not think he's strengthening the athletic department by firing those two. He knows this will hurt athletics, but doesn't care, because he doesn't think they are important at all.

I have a hard time believing this. I'm aware that Engstrom appears to be incompetent, but I highly doubt he doesn't want the Grizzlies to excel in athletics. He's aware of where the money comes from, he's dumb, but he's not that dumb.

What money? Don't you know our athletic department is lucky to break even every year?

The AD does not come even close to breaking even. Football comes close. Men's and women's basketball lose about a Million each annually. All minor sports lose another million total. This--from figures sent to me by Jim O'Day.

 

[Tokyogriz]

Yep - hurting the football program is going to damage the ENTIRE athletic department and cut of some funding for the main fund itself since money is siphoned football revenues off to pay for other non athletic programs/costs.

 

[Noches de Passion]

Yep - hurting the football program is going to damage the ENTIRE athletic department and cut of some funding for the main fund itself since money is siphoned football revenues off to pay for other non athletic programs/costs.

So why does a college exist in the first place? For athletic or education? You think it is for one, I think it is for both.

 

[Tokyogriz]

Did I ever say the college exists for nothing other than football or any athletic activity? No.

Please dont try speak for me, you dont know me at all sir. I support the university not for football but as an educational place for me and my children, with athletics being a way of bringing our community together. Thats it.

The football program has been very successful in both bringing the students, local community and entire state together over the years. The football program has been MAKING money for many years and has earned and is a GREAT asset to both the academic and athletic departments at UM as it promotes the University very well both in state and nationally.

Royce Engstrom has intentionally tried to discredit this Football program to protect himself and others at UM in a time of near national hysteria over sex allegations and college football.

 

[kemajic]

The AD does not come even close to breaking even. Football comes close. Men's and women's basketball lose about a Million each annually. All minor sports lose another million total. This--from figures sent to me by Jim O'Day.

Of course not when UM has their accounting set up the way they do. This gave O'Day enormous heartburn.

 

[Noches de Passion]

Did I ever say the college exists for nothing other than football or any athletic activity? No.

Please dont try speak for me, you dont know me at all sir. I support the university not for football but as an educational place for me and my children, with athletics being a way of bringing our community together. Thats it.

The football program has been very successful in both bringing the students, local community and entire state together over the years. The football program has been MAKING money for many years and has earned and is a GREAT asset to both the academic and athletic departments at UM as it promotes the University very well both in state and nationally.

Royce Engstrom has intentionally tried to discredit this Football program to protect himself and others at UM in a time of near national hysteria over sex allegations and college football.

You're right. I don't know you. And actually I admire how much you care about UM football and our University. There are many people who probably wish they care as much about anything in their lives as you do about our football program and University.

The interesting thing is that no one really cared as much about any of this until it stared affecting our football program and prominent, out-of state athletes living in Montana named "John Doe." That goes for fans and administrators and President Engstrom himself. No one was taking this problem seriously until it started affecting the most noticeable and public portion of our University. If you really care about UM as an institution and not just a football program, many would have been far more upset about these blunders before they impacted our star quarterback.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Did I ever say the college exists for nothing other than football or any athletic activity? No.

Please dont try speak for me, you dont know me at all sir. I support the university not for football but as an educational place for me and my children, with athletics being a way of bringing our community together. Thats it.

The football program has been very successful in both bringing the students, local community and entire state together over the years. The football program has been MAKING money for many years and has earned and is a GREAT asset to both the academic and athletic departments at UM as it promotes the University very well both in state and nationally.

Royce Engstrom has intentionally tried to discredit this Football program to protect himself and others at UM in a time of near national hysteria over sex allegations and college football.

You're right. I don't know you. And actually I admire how much you care about UM football and our University. There are many people who probably wish they care as much about anything in their lives as you do about our football program and University.

The interesting thing is that no one really cared as much about any of this until it stared affecting our football program and prominent, out-of state athletes living in Montana named "John Doe." That goes for fans and administrators and President Engstrom himself. No one was taking this problem seriously until it started affecting the most noticeable and public portion of our University. If you really care about UM as an institution and not just a football program, many would have been far more upset about these blunders before they impacted our star quarterback.

There are few other things that go into what you just posted.

The way, and attitude, a certain tabloid reporter painted the picture, really pissed off a lot of people in GRIZNATION. They want to see her proven wrong. One of those people she painted an ugly picture of,happens to be the QB, in which people are rallying around.

Also the 2 name positions let go, in all this mess, happen to be very well liked, and respected people personally, and professionally. The manner, and timing they were treated by Engstrom, added fuel to the fire. Again, causing the optimists, and diehards, to believe even stronger, in the men let go. Like it or not, the way they were handled, has turned Engstrom into a villain, to more than a few.

I could be wrong here, but if the published articles not been so one sided, and nasty, GRIZNATION would have a lot less motivation to care the the extents they have. I hope this storm gets over, sooner than later. Doubt will happen because of the egos on the line, and the legal system. I do believe all this negative crap has brought GRIZNATION together, even stronger. :thumb:

I know I would not want to be Engstrom, or Florio, right now. No matter the outcome, hard for me to imagine them lasting in Missoula very long. The public will make them feel a lot unwanted there. As for Engstrom, I don't know, if he deserves that kind of attitude, yet. As for Florio, the sooner she hitches her horse elsewhere, the better. It cannot happen soon enough for me!!!

 

[grizatwork]

Did I ever say the college exists for nothing other than football or any athletic activity? No.

Please dont try speak for me, you dont know me at all sir. I support the university not for football but as an educational place for me and my children, with athletics being a way of bringing our community together. Thats it.

The football program has been very successful in both bringing the students, local community and entire state together over the years. The football program has been MAKING money for many years and has earned and is a GREAT asset to both the academic and athletic departments at UM as it promotes the University very well both in state and nationally.

Royce Engstrom has intentionally tried to discredit this Football program to protect himself and others at UM in a time of near national hysteria over sex allegations and college football.

I too admire your passion albeit a little over the top at times and sometimes I think misdirected. I defend your right to have your opinion. I do have a problem with this post. You ask him to not speak for you because he does not know you, yet you speak for Engstrom. I think is hyperbole to say that he is trying to discredit the football program to protect himself. When you do that it discredits your point of view. In my opinion.

 

[Tokyogriz]

Firing the Athletic Director and the Football coach at the same time, in the same room while having one of your underlings Railroad the star QB in a sham of a hearing to expel the young man are actions that could easily lead one to conclude RE is out to get the Football program. Judging Royce Engstrom on his ACTIONS is in fact a fair and reasonable thing to do.

Somone saying I simply care about athletics and not academics based on nothing, neither my actions or my words, is in fact unfair and unfounded. I have NEVER said in any post that athletics takes priority in any way over academics, nor have I taken any action that would lead one to conclude that point.

 

[Grizbacker1]

I personally don't think Engstrom is out to destroy Griz Athletics. I just think he is in way over his head and is making knee jerk reactionary judgements that are doing some damage. What is happening to Jordan Johnson is beyond pathetic. If someone is truly advising Engstrom, then as the saying goes; "Houston, we have a problem."

 

[grizatwork]

I personally don't think Engstrom is out to destroy Griz Athletics. I just think he is in way over his head and is making knee jerk reactionary judgements that are doing some damage. What is happening to Jordan Johnson is beyond pathetic. If someone is truly advising Engstrom, then as the saying goes; "Houston, we have a problem."

I don't see him as out to destroy athletics either. I guess that is my point with Tokyo. His flair for the dramatic truly takes away from some really legitimate points that he is making. I don't think he instructed Couture to railroad JJ. I think Couture had a bee in his bonnet about the whole situation and was ready to make an example of an athlete. I think the embarrassment of the situation has led Royce to over-react. If you are reacting, you really are not leading. I would like for him to have the opportunity to get out in front of things so we can see what kind of leader he can be. I think this has been the perfect storm for a new president that has really put him a horrible position. I think the multiple investigations led him to wanting to look like he was making legitimate steps toward addressing a bad situation.

 

[poorgriz]

Ya... I still haven't heard how RE is supposedly going to benefit personally by "Destroying UM Athletics". Speaking of "Knee Jerk" reactions... that seems like one of them to me.

 

[Growler1]

For those who still believe they are entitled to know why JOD and RP were fired, I would again direct you east to Bozeman. You aren't entitled to know why, unless you want to foot the bill for the lawsuit that would immediately arise for firing either with cause. You may be entitled to know email exchanges back and forth on government computers using tax payer dollars, but your quest for knowledge is not worth $225,000. Donate that money to a new locker room and better facilities. We need to be thinking a little more longer term here; boycotting Lee Enterprises and constantly hoping JOD and RP are rehired is undoubtedly short term, limited logic.

Actually, given all the damage to UM's and Engstrom's reputation from the silence on the firings, I think it would be worthwhile for UM to pay $225,000, or even $225,000 times 2, for Engstrom to be able to explain everything. This issue isn't going away. It's festering and smoldering. It's impacting fund-raising negatively. My take is that Engstrom really doesn't have any specific reasons, except perhaps smaller things, and his reasons were big picture ones, which may or may not have been valid. As I have said all along, doing what it is right and best for a company or institution cannot be dictated by legal concerns. Legal concerns are only one of several important factors. I have been involved, numerous times, in advising companies and institutions, and in helping make decisions like this, in similar situations for over 30 years. A company/institution shouldn't let legal concerns run or dictate various important decisions the company/institution, although, of course, legal factors must be analyzed and taken into account.

If your advisement to companies was as convoluted and typically legal-speak as this post was, then your companies got jobbed in hiring you. Typical freakin' lawyer!

 

[Growler1]

Really Tokyo? Engstrom's life long goal is to destroy the Grizzly Athletic Department? What the fug is this outcome going to do for him exactly?

Many people believe Engstrom does not want the Grizzlies to excel in athletics because he doesn't want our school to be known for that. There are MANY professors at the U who agree with him and wish athletics would just go away so we're simply known as a smaller liberal arts college. Engstrom said he supported athletics and would help find ways to get additional revenue to the football program to make facility improvements as well as match donor contributions. He has already backed off both of those things and will most likely force the Athletic Department to pay for Pflugrad and O'days contract. Make no mistake, Engstrom does not think he's strengthening the athletic department by firing those two. He knows this will hurt athletics, but doesn't care, because he doesn't think they are important at all.

What a crock! First, Engstrom is a huge fan of athletics in general, and especially UM athletics. Second, the man is smart enough to realize the tremendous marketing advantage that having a superior football program is for enrollment and growth at his university. Obvious that you and Tokoyo have an agenda. But, don't try to paint an incorrect picture of this guy just to support that agenda.

 

[Ursa Major]

He's back!! Thank you baby Jesus!!

 

[Growler1]

He's back!! Thank you baby Jesus!!

Somebody has to bring some levity to this board. I was banned for a week by heavy-handed mods, then decided to stay off the board another week to make a statement to them about their selective censorship.