Can Anyone Tell Me..................

[tnt]

What happened at the apartment is not the point. The number of these students partys broken up off campus every year is huge. The University rarely has the involvement they had with this one, nor will they in the future. Their involvement in this one and other incidents with the goal of "protecting the Universities Image" is the problem and has been in the past.

Illegal search and seizure is a very big deal as is assault by a police officer. I'm sure that the reducing misdemeanor charges to misdemeanor charges is only the begining.........

 

[Growler1]

WaGriz..I agree that good kids need to be recruited. The point I am making is there needs to be an environment of discipline to keep order. I do not think Pflu projected that and the players did not fear being punished for a violation.

But you think the players feared Bobby Hauck's discipline and that is why they never got in trouble :lol: If players staying out of trouble is how you judge an "environment of discipline" than Bobby Hauck had no environment of discipline.

Whether they feared Bobby or not wasn't near as important as knowing any stupidity on their part would be take care of by the Athletic Department.

I am guessing now what won't happen is that two high profile players accused of being drunk and stupid before a playoff run won't show up in Justice court with a their university vice president and the highest priced attorney in several states on a simple misdemeanor charge to make sure there won't be any disposition of the case until after the playoffs.

Amen, brother. Anyone with half a brain watching what happened with that case would know there is a cover-up going on. Just pray that the NCAA does not give us another dose of reality!

 

[WaGriz4life]

What happened at the apartment is not the point. The number of these students partys broken up off campus every year is huge. The University rarely has the involvement they had with this one, nor will they in the future. Their involvement in this one and other incidents with the goal of "protecting the Universities Image" is the problem and has been in the past.

Illegal search and seizure is a very big deal as is assault by a police officer. I'm sure that the reducing misdemeanor charges to misdemeanor charges is only the begining.........

Then why were you asking me what happened at the apartment? :lol: Those two went to the Athletic Department the next day because there isn't one adult in Missoula they know better than Pflu, O'Day, and Foley. They put them in contact with attorneys. Who did you expect them to go to for advice in Missoula? Their English teachers? :lol: Those cops were wrong in almost every way they handled that situation and the Missoula PD was about to be sued (again) for their use of excessive force. If they hadn't dropped the charges the city would have got sued for half a million by each, easily.

 

[tnt]

What happened at the apartment is not the point. The number of these students partys broken up off campus every year is huge. The University rarely has the involvement they had with this one, nor will they in the future. Their involvement in this one and other incidents with the goal of "protecting the Universities Image" is the problem and has been in the past.

Illegal search and seizure is a very big deal as is assault by a police officer. I'm sure that the reducing misdemeanor charges to misdemeanor charges is only the begining.........

Then why were you asking me what happened at the apartment? :lol: Those two went to the Athletic Department the next day because there isn't one adult in Missoula they know better than Pflu, O'Day, and Foley. They put them in contact with attorneys. Who did you expect them to go to for advice in Missoula? Their English teachers? :lol: Those cops were wrong in almost every way they handled that situation and the Missoula PD was about to be sued (again) for their use of excessive force. If they hadn't dropped the charges the city would have got sued for half a million by each, easily.

I didn't ask what happened at the apartment, I asked what happened after the arrests in fact I asked three times. I don't even care if 2 misdemeanor charges were combined into one. You keep focusing on what the kids do or didn't do. That (including the rapes, rumours of rapes, and investigations of rapes) HAS NEVER been the issue. The issue has been how various departments have responded. That response hasn't been good. Its been getting worse for years and now its been decided that its time to stop. So far (I don't have my score card in front of me) we have lost a campus security director, a vice president/dean, an athletic director, and a coach. Will there be more? Has Foley polished his resume? Stay tuned.

 

[PlayerRep]

What happened at the apartment is not the point. The number of these students partys broken up off campus every year is huge. The University rarely has the involvement they had with this one, nor will they in the future. Their involvement in this one and other incidents with the goal of "protecting the Universities Image" is the problem and has been in the past.

Illegal search and seizure is a very big deal as is assault by a police officer. I'm sure that the reducing misdemeanor charges to misdemeanor charges is only the begining.........

Then why were you asking me what happened at the apartment? :lol: Those two went to the Athletic Department the next day because there isn't one adult in Missoula they know better than Pflu, O'Day, and Foley. They put them in contact with attorneys. Who did you expect them to go to for advice in Missoula? Their English teachers? :lol: Those cops were wrong in almost every way they handled that situation and the Missoula PD was about to be sued (again) for their use of excessive force. If they hadn't dropped the charges the city would have got sued for half a million by each, easily.

I didn't ask what happened at the apartment, I asked what happened after the arrests in fact I asked three times. I don't even care if 2 misdemeanor charges were combined into one. You keep focusing on what the kids do or didn't do. That (including the rapes, rumours of rapes, and investigations of rapes) HAS NEVER been the issue. The issue has been how various departments have responded. That response hasn't been good. Its been getting worse for years and now its been decided that its time to stop. So far (I don't have my score card in front of me) we have lost a campus security director, a vice president/dean, an athletic director, and a coach. Will there be more? Has Foley polished his resume? Stay tuned.

Again, this is what happened during that time period, as already posted above. The players' lawyer said and gathered evidence showing that there had been police wrong-doing, the real facts were not as had been reported by the police, it was learned that the taser cop was involved in another inappropriate taser incident (I heard), and the prosecutor decided that he/she had better settle this mess because there were too many credible witnesses and audio/video that didn't support the police version of the facts and the charges. Result: disorderly conduct. Hardly a big deal.

 

[AZGrizFan]

it was learned that the taser cop was involved in another inappropriate taser incident (I heard), and the prosecutor decided that he/she had better settle this mess because there were too many credible witnesses and audio/video that didn't support the police version of the facts and the charges. Result: disorderly conduct. Hardly a big deal.

Sure, when considered in a vaccuum. :|

 

[BearEssentials]

griz arrests by year
2012 - 2 (donaldson,maus)
2011 - 6 (kemp twice, johnson, middleton, montana, duncan)
2010 - 3 (badger, stuberg, wilson)
2009 - 5 (quinn, douglas, von appen, montelius, stuberg)
2008 - 9 (freeman 3, quinn, wilson, coleman, pate, shelton, stapp)
2007 - 2 (joyce, parks)
2006 - 2 (smith, waller)
2005 - 2 (segars, walden)

players that transferred in with arrests - 5 (freeman, coleman, russum, frank, middleton)
ex-players arrested - 3 (peeples, petek, raynock)
players accused, not arrested - 9 (in fairness i won't list any of these)

I don't think Kemp was arrested twice; only once. Were Badger and Liscowski arrested? Wilson was arrested in 2010; only give a citation. I don't believe Freeman was arrested 3 times. Waller wasn't arrested. What was Segar's infraction in 2005?

You're right, PR ... It's unfair to Badger and Liscowski to have them on this list, as they were not arrested. Besides, the charges for fisticuffs in which no one was hurt were dropped.

 

[PlayerRep]

griz arrests by year
2012 - 2 (donaldson,maus)
2011 - 6 (kemp twice, johnson, middleton, montana, duncan)
2010 - 3 (badger, stuberg, wilson)
2009 - 5 (quinn, douglas, von appen, montelius, stuberg)
2008 - 9 (freeman 3, quinn, wilson, coleman, pate, shelton, stapp)
2007 - 2 (joyce, parks)
2006 - 2 (smith, waller)
2005 - 2 (segars, walden)

players that transferred in with arrests - 5 (freeman, coleman, russum, frank, middleton)
ex-players arrested - 3 (peeples, petek, raynock)
players accused, not arrested - 9 (in fairness i won't list any of these)

I don't think Kemp was arrested twice; only once. Were Badger and Liscowski arrested? Wilson was arrested in 2010; only give a citation. I don't believe Freeman was arrested 3 times. Waller wasn't arrested. What was Segar's infraction in 2005?

You're right, PR ... It's unfair to Badger and Liscowski to have them on this list, as they were not arrested. Besides, the charges for fisticuffs in which no one was hurt were dropped.

Thanks. I don't think anything came of Parks' situation either, but don't know. Do you?

If DUI arrests (some of which were dropped or changed to reckless driving) are left out from this list, the proper factual adjustments are made, and only players on the team are included, I think this is what we're left with during O'Day's 8 years.

The house burglary (only 3 active players), the 3 frosh in the fight (I'm not sure if they were actually arrested, but they were charged so I'll count them here), Kemp/Johnson - disorderly conduct, Wilson arrest and acquittal (shouldn't count), Donaldson sexual assault, Freeman bottle-throwing (for which he was acquitted at trial). That's 11 and Freeman was acquitted, so maybe really just 10--in 8 years.

Not involving arrests: Wilson biting - minor charge, Donaldson failure to pay ticket, Smith gun waiving, Kemp public urination, does the Segars thing even belong here, Swink/Johnson - no charges or arrest. Nothing big here.

Sexual assault allegations in press, but for which no charges are been brought. One may have resulted in sanctions or dismissals from the u (but only 1 player still has eligibility).

Too much, but not a huge deal other than the burglarly, frosh fight, and any sexual assault stuff that turns out to be true.

 

[Growler1]

griz arrests by year
2012 - 2 (donaldson,maus)
2011 - 6 (kemp twice, johnson, middleton, montana, duncan)
2010 - 3 (badger, stuberg, wilson)
2009 - 5 (quinn, douglas, von appen, montelius, stuberg)
2008 - 9 (freeman 3, quinn, wilson, coleman, pate, shelton, stapp)
2007 - 2 (joyce, parks)
2006 - 2 (smith, waller)
2005 - 2 (segars, walden)

players that transferred in with arrests - 5 (freeman, coleman, russum, frank, middleton)
ex-players arrested - 3 (peeples, petek, raynock)
players accused, not arrested - 9 (in fairness i won't list any of these)

I don't think Kemp was arrested twice; only once. Were Badger and Liscowski arrested? Wilson was arrested in 2010; only give a citation. I don't believe Freeman was arrested 3 times. Waller wasn't arrested. What was Segar's infraction in 2005?

You're right, PR ... It's unfair to Badger and Liscowski to have them on this list, as they were not arrested. Besides, the charges for fisticuffs in which no one was hurt were dropped.

Thanks. I don't think anything came of Parks' situation either, but don't know. Do you?

If DUI arrests (some of which were dropped or changed to reckless driving) are left out from this list, the proper factual adjustments are made, and only players on the team are included, I think this is what we're left with during O'Day's 8 years.

The house burglary (only 3 active players), the 3 frosh in the fight (I'm not sure if they were actually arrested, but they were charged so I'll count them here), Kemp/Johnson - disorderly conduct, Wilson arrest and acquittal (shouldn't count), Donaldson sexual assault, Freeman bottle-throwing (for which he was acquitted at trial). That's 11 and Freeman was acquitted, so maybe really just 10--in 8 years.

Not involving arrests: Wilson biting - minor charge, Donaldson failure to pay ticket, Smith gun waiving, Kemp public urination, does the Segars thing even belong here, Swink/Johnson - no charges or arrest. Nothing big here.

Sexual assault allegations in press, but for which no charges are been brought. One may have resulted in sanctions or dismissals from the u (but only 1 player still has eligibility).

Too much, but not a huge deal other than the burglarly, frosh fight, and any sexual assault stuff that turns out to be true.

God, how sick is it to keep a record of the criminal acts, then argue over their inclusion, or "severity"! You dudes just don not freakin get it, do you?

 

[Moose Pojansky]

Duke lacrosse didnt have a decade of criminal activity. So it not even close to the same thing. The person that posted that is trying to spin the attention away from the real problem at UM.

He is part of the rape is ok crowd as long as the Griz win football games. It doesnt matter that we have had 26 reported incidents since 2005 and thats not including the multiple incidents that havent been reported. The numbers alone prove there is a problem at UM that simply doesnt happen every year at every other school.

The way some od you go out of your way to defend criminal behavior is sickening and way worse than rape.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

Well, if a man needs to go out and get himself a piece of ass, what's the big deal?

 

[WILD_CAT]

Duke lacrosse didnt have a decade of criminal activity. So it not even close to the same thing. The person that posted that is trying to spin the attention away from the real problem at UM.

He is part of the rape is ok crowd as long as the Griz win football games. It doesnt matter that we have had 26 reported incidents since 2005 and thats not including the multiple incidents that havent been reported. The numbers alone prove there is a problem at UM that simply doesnt happen every year at every other school.

The way some od you go out of your way to defend criminal behavior is sickening and way worse than rape.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

Well, if a man needs to go out and get himself a piece of ass, what's the big deal?

Okay not to derail the thread but moose gets the award for creapiest Avatar of the week

 

[Twincitysgriz]

Alpha you're an idiot. If you really think the crime at the Griz level is out of the norm I would challenge you to use Google a little more and look at the facts. Oh but wait, you can't do that because your specialty is turning everything into a negative. Or is it bragging about being the first to talk so much Shit on an opponents website that you get kicked off. Oh wait maybe its belittling anyone that disagrees with you and launching personal attacks against them. Maybe its berating people with your little video's. Personally I'd rather have the Griz in the news for crime than you as a fan representing them... Just my thoughts.

 

[MrTitleist]

Alpha your an idiot. If you really think the crime at the Griz level is out of the norm I would challenge you to use Google a little more and look at the facts. Oh but wait, you can't do that because your specialty is turning everything into a negative. Or is it bragging about being the first to talk so much Shit on an opponents website that you get kicked off. Oh wait maybe its belittling anyone that disagrees with you and launching personal attacks against them. Maybe its berating people with your little video's. Personally I'd rather have the Griz in the news for crime than you as a fan representing them... Just my thoughts.

You're*

 

[moose/squirrel]

OK alpha then what was your point in creating this thread?

He's looking for attention...

Imagine that, SMH.

 

[moose/squirrel]

This thread is truely pointless.

Alpha has nothing better to do than create jibberish threads on egriz while he runs around naked lathered in KY jelly with his cowboy boots on, lounging on his leather EZ-Chair watching fox tv, stroking it to Rush Limbaughs poster on his ceiling and posting on his circle jerk maroon whatever website.

And yes alpha I have hijacked your webcam and this on a hard drive!

In a serious note your multiple threads that got killed today, this thread and your other attack threads will not make others see your viewpoint. Many folks will never agree with what has happened. I know you want to lead the inquisition here but I would give it a rest. Your just looking stupid here.

Pot meet kettle, LMFAO.

 

[moose/squirrel]

cclarkblues is asking the right questions. And no matter what anybody says, there are no easy answers.

Any player who is accused of misconduct deserves some due process. The question is, what process is due? Obviously, the university doesn't need to do an investigation of a student athlete's potential misconduct that establishes proof of guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt," or anything like that, but how about "a preponderance of the evidence" or "clear and convincing evidence" or some other reasonable standard?

You can't just say "no due process." That's B.S. Peoples' lives can be ruined by completely false accusations. You have to do some fact-finding and find out if there's anything to the charges, whether they're civil or criminal. And in criminal cases, like it or not, it might be completely reasonable to defer to the criminal justice system.

Great post,with you on this.

And, in deciding what the penalty should be, of course you have to consider: (1) the seriousness of the "offense," (2) whether the student-athlete has been in trouble in the past, (3) how the student-athlete responds to the investigation (i.e., does the individual cooperate fully, does the individual tell the truth, does the individual express a genuine intent to change his/her behavior), etc.

It's easy to say that people should be fired or not fired, that kids should be kicked off a team or not, etc. Any idiot can have an opinion on that stuff. What's hard is being in a position of responsibility to make those kinds of decisions.

It looks to me like the University needs to devote a whole lot more resources to investigating these types of matters and making educated decisions on what should be done in response. And it can't be left completely to the coaches - they don't have the time or expertise. The AD needs to be very involved in these decisions, in consultation with the coaches and the people who do the compliance work.

Like I said, it's not simple. So let's all be civil and discuss it like adults. Wait, I don't mean "adult" as in that other thread.