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BobKitty's Defense is all AMPed up.

Bear Axed

Well-known member
the Whole Kitty team should be forced by the NCAA to have Drug tests, someone that close to the players that is dealing drugs may have had a negative influnce on what they used to help thier performance.

This may end up bigger than the SPAM attack
Bareassed: Your previous post was the most ignorant, outrageous, and downright slimey post I have ever read on this board. Shame on you. You wouldn't be related to the late Sen. Jos. McCarthy would you?
Apparently Bear Axed is also strongly in favor of racial profiling by police officers... This is a sad enough situation as it is, let's not start speculating about players and/or other coaches being involved in this. If they are, they will most likely be caught and punished just like O'Brien was/will be.
I don't care what color he is! If had had influence on my son I certainly would want to know so I could get help for him ASAP. A cover up or delay will only make matters that much worse if any kids were affected. This is DAMN serious stuff he was involved in.
My point is that you can't mandate drug testing of all the MSU players unless you also do the same for every single NCAA football player. If a parent wants to get his kid tested that's fine, but the NCAA can't mandate that just MSU players get tested. It's a similar situation to when police officers pull over black drivers more often because there is a perception that they are more likely to be committing a crime.
Ya I'm sure that's whats best for the kids! We should help the program hide any possible DRUG problems - NOW - cause it might affect the schools Athletic program. To hell with the kids they'll all be gone and on their own in a year or two anyway. And if they are on the stuff they'll be a blite on society, But not MSU's problem once they're gone.

You probably think a gay Boyscout leader isn't that bad of a deal ether?

Do you have a son?
Look, I'm by no means saying MSU should try to cover up or hide any drug problems that may exist in order to not hurt the performance of the football team. I'm saying that the NCAA can't mandate that ONLY the Montana State players take drug tests because one person associated with the program allegedly is involved in some bad stuff. What if players from other schools are taking crystal meth or some other illegal drug(s)? They are certainly also blights on society and should be dealt with as well. I think MSU should (and will) do a thorough investigation to determine whether this was an isolated thing with one coach or if it involves more players/coaches/trainers/etc. If more people are found to be involved, they should be gotten rid of immediately.

No, I don't have a son. If I did have a son on the team, I would have a serious discussion with him about what he knew AND make sure that the Athletic Department and university did all they could to find out what was going on.
So... an inhouse investigation is the answer - that worked great in the Clinton Administration.

Associated with the Program - easy way of saying DIRECT INTRACTION with and on key players lifestyles and attitudes.

I suppose you are also in favor of the "DON'T ASK ; DON'T TELL " Clinton phylosophy?
Inhouse investigation: Fine with me, but let's get the police involved as well if they want to be.

Where I draw the line is with your original idea of mandated drug testing for only MSU players. It would be singling out one team when similar problems may easily exist on other teams. In my opinion, that is unfair.

Don't ask, Don't Tell: I don't have any problem with homosexuals serving in the military if they so wish and if they keep their sexual preference private.

At any rate, this is all I'm saying about this on this board. I don't think this discussion has much to do with Griz Football.
You don't think The Felonious acts commited by a HEAD COACH at MSU DO NOT affect the athletic program for UofM or other Big Sky programs ?
you're an idiot
I'm embarassed for All football progreams in 1-AA because it affects us all.

Why do I call him "Head Coach" It's like the MSU football program referring to ITSELF as the 2002 Bigsky Camp's, they keep forgetting they are co-champs, kinda like your inferance that other Head Coaches are probably selling drugs too! it's just bad luck that MSU coaches keep getting caught 'behaving VERY bably'.

NEWS FLASH "most college coaches are NOT criminals, outside of Bozeman MT that is!"
You're absolutely right BEAR [who] AXED [you]. I think they should profile every gay military reservist ex Clinton staffer Boyscout leader player on the MSU roster. Have them drawn and quartered and tested for drugs. Let the innocent drown. The guilty will float to the top of your conspiracist hallucinations.
People, people, let's be reasonable. You're all overreacting. Is it really a crime to be caught in possession of crystal meth? Oh wait, it is.
Wow, I never saw this one coming. No, not the drug charge. Well, yes this came as a huge shock, but it's not what I am talking about here. Who ever foresaw a Griz fan/Missoulian playing the homophobic, intolerant, McCarthy-esque, Clinton-hating neophyte, and a Bobcat/Bozemanite playing the liberal?! I guess Bear-brained didn't hear about the High Times ranking of UM as the #5 school in the nation for counter-culture. Although I am pretty sure as being ranked as more liberal than UC-Berkeley is never a good thing.

Bear-brain's suggestion of meth-testing for all the MSU players is completely ridiculous, insulting, and borders on libelous. Just because O'Brien was allegedly involved in drugs says absolutely NOTHING about the Bobcat players. First of all, don't you think that just maybe Coach Kramer, despite your intense hatred of him, would have gotten rid of any coach he knew was involved in selling drugs? Second, just as you all view your Griz players as being upstanding citizens and role-models, don't you think that we view our Bobcats the same way, and for the same good reasons? Why would anyone suspect these players of using a drug that would most likely hamper their performance?

Get off your high-horse, Bear-brained. I hear the KGB is trying to rebuild, perhaps you would be better-suited in a place like that.
Bear Axed said:
kinda like your inferance that other Head Coaches are probably selling drugs too! it's just bad luck that MSU coaches keep getting caught 'behaving VERY bably'.

NEWS FLASH "most college coaches are NOT criminals, outside of Bozeman MT that is!"

Where exactly did I make the inferEnce that "other head coaches are probably selling drugs too"? I simply said that if you want to eliminate any drug problem at MSU by testing all the players, do the same to all the other programs at which a "drug problem" may or may not exist, whether it involves coaches, players, or both. If you don't want people supposedly making inferences I suggest you don't start your post with the title "BobKitty defense is all AMPed up".

I guess if you call me an idiot in 18 point font it must be true.
Did O'Brien have it for his own use only, or did he have it with an intent to distribute it?
I'm pretty sure Bozeman's law enforcement and the Feds are checking into things far beyond what the news and papers tell us. For one thing, they knew enough to catch him, so I'm sure they're checking into any coaches/players that may, if at all, be involved.
Is it really that unreasonable to think that there could be players using methamphetamine (not the same thing as crystal meth) when the assistant head coach is busted for distribution in a sting? If this was any other school, surely there would be Bobcat fans wondering the same thing. Surely they would be wondering the same thing if it was the Griz assistant head coach.

Does anyone remember when the Cal State Northridge womens basketball coach was busted for selling crack cocaine? Did everyone just assume that none of the players were using? I doubt it. I do, however, remember having a good snicker over the matter with a couple higher ups in MSU's athletic department.

I don't know how familiar any of you are with the nature of the charges O'Brien faces, but he's in deep. Felony possession is the easy one, but the felony possession with intent to distribute, suggests that he wasn't just selling a quarter gram at the Townsend truck stop. Intent to distribute is a bit more serious than intent to sell. It also suggests that MRDTF has been watching MSU's assistant head coach Joe O'Brien for some time. They should already know who is in on it and who is not.

It isn't McCarthyesque for the NCAA to test your players for drugs, either. They have the right under normal circumstances to test a few after every game, without and any suggestion of suspicion. These tests happen all the time, just usually not at ol' Moo U, which nobody in DI is that concerned about.

Montana players have been tested several times in the last 10 years after playoff games. The NCAA just picks the kids to test at random. After the 1996 National Championship game, one of the kids tested positive for marijuana, he didn't play in the game and nothing became of it. He wasn't suspected of anything beforehand either, he just won the lottery.

Don't be shocked if the NCAA comes knocking after hearing that MSU's assistant head coach was charged with a felony that could put him behind bars for more than 20 years. If the NCAA wants to test the entire team, it will.

I'm sorry this had to happen at your school, which seemed to be heading in the right direction. MSU had a series of rough scrapes in the last couple years, but was two years out from anything really horrendous.
Meth is a HUGE problem in Montana in general. It's easy to make. With a rudimentary lab built out of a few glass jars, coffee filters and precursors that you can mostly buy over the counter or "borrow" from your rural farmer and your set to "cook" up a batch it in your garage (if you don't mind the possibility of burning i down if things go wrong)

It's horribly addictive and causes you to have serious health problems once hooked. Withdrawl symptoms include hallucinations (many people feel they are covered with spiders or see the walls and ceiling spewing colord rain) along with the usual maladies that effect IV drug users. It can also be smoked and that carries it's own health risks.

I can't believe he had it for personal use as it would have effected his performance immensely (at the outset he would get tons done because you can go almost a week without sleep and you lose your appetite completely so no pesky need to stop and eat) but your body begins to break down and your behavior would be noticeable by those you spend a lot of time with.

The news reports I read indicated he sold meth during an arranged sale. Unfortunately for him it was arranged by an undercover officer or informant. If he's got a clean record, he will see a mandatory minimum hitch in a federal prison (Insert your own "Office Space" joke here).

If it turns out he dealt at MSU - katie bar the door - the feds will jump on him with both feet and the sentencing guidelines get a lot stiffer because of a school being involved.

I don't feel a bit sorry for the guy because he made the choice to do this. You don't accidently start dealing drugs. I do however feel very sorry for everyone related to him personally and professionally because each will feel some blame for his bad choice and several will have to deal with the myriad of questions that will arise as a result of a school and law enforcement investigation. Not a good thing for anyone.