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Big Sky Expansion???

What a haul! I didn't know where SDSU was until I looked on a map, south eastern SD, and Fargo is the same.

It would be a far too far for a bus trip and I've heard flights have been few and far between.

Not that 'distance' should be an issue, but I'd never go there for an away trip... :eek:
Right now I have a hard time seeing that this is a benefit to the Big Sky. How can these schools raise the level of play in the Big Sky? By scheduling these teams it will take two games away from us, where we could schedule opponents that are better than the Dakota schools.
I could see North Dakota State giving people fits down the road. In years, they have dominated DII. SDSU, on the other hand, has a long way to go if they want to compete in Division I-AA.

It's no wonder that Fullerton is giving serious consideration to both of them. NDSU leads Division II in football attendence and SDSU leads in basketball attendence. Their per home game averages are much better than most teams in the Big Sky have right now.

As it is now, I see no advantages to having a ten team conference. Eight is the right number to leave more room on the schedule for non-conference games. And what ever happened to the "wait and see" attitude in case Idaho and/or Utah State are dropped from I-A?
I will cast my vote against these two. As another poster said, why would we want a 1 in 10 chance of going to the dance rather than a 1 in 8 chance. Let's face it, the Big Sky will NEVER get 2 teams into the tournament. The only way it may help us may be to get 3 teams into the football playoffs.

If we have to take them, I would be in favor of making a 12 team conference by adding Northern Colorado and someone like UC Davis. Both are strong universities that could come in and be respectable right away. We could then have a north and south division, and a true conference championship game.
Thats exactly what I was thinking. Even with 10, you could still split the conference. Have MSU, EWU, UM, PSU & Sac St as one, and ND, SD, NAU, ISU & Weber as the other. make it that you play all in your own side and 3 of the 5 in the other, you still retain the same conference games and keep the chance to play bigger schools in the east or wherever they choose. I do like the idea of 12 though. If we did have those 12 you mentioned, we'd be covering 10 states with our conference. Travelling would have to take its toll.
with a ten team conference you would have 9 football games. Normally, when the NCC was 10 teams we would play 12 games. At any rate you would have room for at least 1 or 2 more non conference games.

Travel to the Dakotas is about 2 hrs further by air to either Fargo or Sioux Falls. In basketball season you will fly an extra 2 hrs or less, have a shorter bus trip than you do from Phoenix to Flagstaff and you will get 2 games. As travel partners I would expect one game on Friday in either Sioux Falls or Fargo and another on Sat in the other town and then fly home.

Northern Co. is a good football team. They have been very strong in the NCC over the past several years. But, they are not dominate by any means. They are very avg or below in BB. Both SDSU and NDSU have beaten them regularly. They barely beat NDSU last year and the BISON had their worst season since 1960 going 2-8. Northern Co. is very representative of the good teams in the NCC. Both SDSU and NDSU are among the better teams.

SDSU is currently ranked in the top 5 nationally in mens basket ball, DII. The SDSU women are ranked #1. The NDSU men are rebuilding but still 2-1 in the NCC witha victory over UNC. The women are ranked #4. I dont know who you play now, but the addition of 2 more league teams would certainly make it a bit more competitive. I dont know it would be easier to get in the tournament now or with a more comptetive league. Its likely the league would place teams in both the NIT and the NCAA if it were to expand and get better.

The point is we will be Division I and IAA no matter which league we play so its going to be more competitive for every BSC school if we are in the conference or not. You can run but you cant hide. There is a long history between the Dakota schools and many of the BSC schools. It wasnt too far to travel in prior to the BSC moving up in 1974 and I dont believe the distance has gotten any further.
A thought:

"Under current NCAA regulations, a school that has set-course for I-A is no longer eligible to compete in the I-AA playoffs. That legislation was enacted to compensate for the recruiting advantage conferred on schools like the 1995 and 1996 Marshall Thundering Herd, who can compete in I-AA while recruiting like a I-A."

Does anyone know if this rule applies to D2 schools moving up to 1AA? I guess it is also something to keep in mind as our own debate carries on in Missoula about where the program should be headed.

I think there is also a rule about new teams not being eligible for conference and playoffs or tournaments championships until after a certain probabtionary perios. Not possitive on that one though.
Near as I know, schools that move from DII to Div 1 aren't eligible for March Madness or the NIT for a period of 8 years! Which brings up the questions that if SDSU and NDSU are admitted and win the regular season basketball crown, where is the tournament held because they aren't eligible and do wins against those two teams count either for or against the leagues RPI? It would be like having "shadow" members in the conference. Football wouldn't be a problem except for the previously mentioned loss of "money" games or other OOC scheduling opportunities.
jbb, it seems to me in conferences with 10 teams they don't play each team each season. meaning they play 8 conference games and 3 non-con...4 if you're the Griz.
Also, if The dakota weren't so far they'd fit in ok as they draw well and have good schools. But sadly they are too far IMHO.
Grizmania - I think you are correct. I know the Big 10 doesn't play each team each year. See Iowa v. OSU.
grizpack said:
Grizmania - I think you are correct. I know the Big 10 doesn't play each team each year. See Iowa v. OSU.

Bad example as the big ten actually has eleven teams. A better example would be the pac 10.
North Texas would be the ideal choice. It is a public university with a 30 thousand seat stadium and its location in the northern part of the Dallas metroplex would lend itself to favorable recruiting.

If North Texas would get out of the obscure Sun Belt Conference they would have the potential to be competitive in the Big 12.

On second thought, maybe UNT and Baylor should switch conferences.
It was announced today that all 8 BSC presidents will meet in Salt Lake City Feb. 20 for an expansion meeting.

I don't know how the BSC would schedule 10 teams but in the NCC we played every team every year in football and twice in BB. Looking for 4 games every year is a lot harder and more expensive than looking for 1 or 2. It’s much easier to schedule when you know your cost profile each year.

By the looks of the conference I would say that most games are not bus trips. Whatever bus trips exist now would not change. Once your in the air whats the difference if your going to TX or the Dakotas? If the BSC expands it’s going to 9 or 10 teams and you will have to travel to get there. It's not a question of miles. Both Dakota Schools are more accessible than UNA.

Both Dakota Schools would like to be members, are similar in schools in size and mission, are competitive athletically, would bring stability, strength, and exposure and are in fact traditional rivals with the BSC, at least until it moved to DIAA.

DII schools moving up cant recruit at the DIAA level for the first year, called the provisional year. NDSU is in the first year of a 5 year probation for football meaning they are not playoff eligible for 5 years. The first year is the provisional year and it is played by the DII rules with a DII schedule. After that we will have to meet the scheduling requirements of DIAA. The probation in BB is 8 yrs. They may become playoff eligible immediately if they are members of a conference, I don't know for sure, but it seems to me if they weren't eligible they would be treated as non conference until they were fully incorporated.
Sorry, JBB, but travel IS a problem. The GRIZ have several thousand fans who travel to road games. We had nearly three thousand at Hofstra on Long Island last season and many thousand at Eastern Washington and Idaho. We would have to fly to Minneapolis than back to the Dakotas for games with NDSU or SDSU. It costs significantly less to fly to New York or Atlanta than it does to the Dakotas. It's a lot easier to get to Colorado, California, Texas, or Arizona than it is to the other side of flat. Would you even have enough motels to put up several thousand fans?

Do you realize that the Fargo/Moorehead area has around 200,000 people? And, Sioux Falls (40 miles from Brookings where SDSU is) is about 150,000 or so...there are plenty of rooms.
If I was to chose a game to travel to.. it sure as hell wouldn't be to one of the Dakota games. I'd be more apt to make a trip out of it, stay a few extra days, see the sights, etc. Maine... big possibility.

Dakotas.... Ummm,
Well somewhere out in those black mountain hills you may meet up with Rocky Raccoon. If you do, be careful. You see his rival it seems had broken his dreams by stealing the girl of his fancy. So I would be very careful and stay out of Dakota. No need to risk meeting up with a jealous Raccoon in Dakota. :fist: