Another View on Recent Griz "Incidents"

[grizbrokebacker1]

I really don't like how quickly people throw out the race card or just make the assumption that the other person in the fight had to of been racist. None of you know that. Regardless, when a cop tells you to do something as simple as sitting down and shutting up, you do it. When I was in college in Missoula, I was in a similar situation. I was breaking up a fight and a cop rushed in, pointed a taser at me, and told me to sit on the ground and shut up. That's what I did and I was let go when the situation was dissolved. Nobody was arrested or tased because we listened (and because we knew the cops had a reputation of being taser happy...). You can't let your emotions get away from you in those situations.

Cherry seems to be a good person as does DeShields and I'd be surprised if charges weren't dropped, but you can't say this wasn't their fault at all. Nothing wrong with defending yourself, but when a cop tells you to stop and shut up, you do it if you don't want to be in the police blotter.

So if a white guy calls a black guy the N word, would that make the white guy a racist? I would say either yes or the white guy is just plain f'n stupid. But in this situation the N word was used so I would say race played a part in this fight.

It makes him ignorant, but not necessarily racist. You said he was either drunk or stoned. Do you think either of those things could've made him say something he regrets?

 

[PlayerRep]

And by the way, PR, your boy Jason Washington looks to be going to federal prison for what you considered to be insignificant acts. But I know I would be expecting too much for you to admit error on that as well.

What "error" on JW would you like me to admit? I don't believe I ever said much on his situation. I assumed he'd probably plea or get convicted all along, and end up with a prison sentence.

Do you believe people should be charged and convicted with selling marijuana when it is legal under state law?

With the feds not going after sellers of now-legal marijuana (not just medical marijuana, but any marijuana) in Colorado and Washington, and not going after sellers of medical marijuana in states outside of MT, do you think sellers of medical marijuana in MT should be sent to federal provision?

 

[PlayerRep]

I really don't like how quickly people throw out the race card or just make the assumption that the other person in the fight had to of been racist. None of you know that. Regardless, when a cop tells you to do something as simple as sitting down and shutting up, you do it. When I was in college in Missoula, I was in a similar situation. I was breaking up a fight and a cop rushed in, pointed a taser at me, and told me to sit on the ground and shut up. That's what I did and I was let go when the situation was dissolved. Nobody was arrested or tased because we listened (and because we knew the cops had a reputation of being taser happy...). You can't let your emotions get away from you in those situations.

Cherry seems to be a good person as does DeShields and I'd be surprised if charges weren't dropped, but you can't say this wasn't their fault at all. Nothing wrong with defending yourself, but when a cop tells you to stop and shut up, you do it if you don't want to be in the police blotter.

So if a white guy calls a black guy the N word, would that make the white guy a racist? I would say either yes or the white guy is just plain f'n stupid. But in this situation the N word was used so I would say race played a part in this fight.

It makes him ignorant, but not necessarily racist. You said he was either drunk or stoned. Do you think either of those things could've made him say something he regrets?

Nope, that's the definition of racism, whether sober or drunk.

 

[Ursa Major]

I really don't like how quickly people throw out the race card or just make the assumption that the other person in the fight had to of been racist. None of you know that. Regardless, when a cop tells you to do something as simple as sitting down and shutting up, you do it. When I was in college in Missoula, I was in a similar situation. I was breaking up a fight and a cop rushed in, pointed a taser at me, and told me to sit on the ground and shut up. That's what I did and I was let go when the situation was dissolved. Nobody was arrested or tased because we listened (and because we knew the cops had a reputation of being taser happy...). You can't let your emotions get away from you in those situations.

Cherry seems to be a good person as does DeShields and I'd be surprised if charges weren't dropped, but you can't say this wasn't their fault at all. Nothing wrong with defending yourself, but when a cop tells you to stop and shut up, you do it if you don't want to be in the police blotter.

So if a white guy calls a black guy the N word, would that make the white guy a racist? I would say either yes or the white guy is just plain f'n stupid. But in this situation the N word was used so I would say race played a part in this fight.

It makes him ignorant, but not necessarily racist. You said he was either drunk or stoned. Do you think either of those things could've made him say something he regrets?

Nope, that's the definition of racism, whether sober or drunk.

...or an Irish lad.

 

[grizbrokebacker1]

I really don't like how quickly people throw out the race card or just make the assumption that the other person in the fight had to of been racist. None of you know that. Regardless, when a cop tells you to do something as simple as sitting down and shutting up, you do it. When I was in college in Missoula, I was in a similar situation. I was breaking up a fight and a cop rushed in, pointed a taser at me, and told me to sit on the ground and shut up. That's what I did and I was let go when the situation was dissolved. Nobody was arrested or tased because we listened (and because we knew the cops had a reputation of being taser happy...). You can't let your emotions get away from you in those situations.

Cherry seems to be a good person as does DeShields and I'd be surprised if charges weren't dropped, but you can't say this wasn't their fault at all. Nothing wrong with defending yourself, but when a cop tells you to stop and shut up, you do it if you don't want to be in the police blotter.

So if a white guy calls a black guy the N word, would that make the white guy a racist? I would say either yes or the white guy is just plain f'n stupid. But in this situation the N word was used so I would say race played a part in this fight.

It makes him ignorant, but not necessarily racist. You said he was either drunk or stoned. Do you think either of those things could've made him say something he regrets?

Nope, that's the definition of racism, whether sober or drunk.

Raise your hand if you've never told or laughed at a joke that involved anybody of ethnicity.....

That's what I thought. Racist.

 

[tnt]

I really don't like how quickly people throw out the race card or just make the assumption that the other person in the fight had to of been racist. None of you know that. Regardless, when a cop tells you to do something as simple as sitting down and shutting up, you do it. When I was in college in Missoula, I was in a similar situation. I was breaking up a fight and a cop rushed in, pointed a taser at me, and told me to sit on the ground and shut up. That's what I did and I was let go when the situation was dissolved. Nobody was arrested or tased because we listened (and because we knew the cops had a reputation of being taser happy...). You can't let your emotions get away from you in those situations.

Cherry seems to be a good person as does DeShields and I'd be surprised if charges weren't dropped, but you can't say this wasn't their fault at all. Nothing wrong with defending yourself, but when a cop tells you to stop and shut up, you do it if you don't want to be in the police blotter.

I don't disagree with you. However, you are neither black nor native american and you probably grew up in a smaller town in MT. You didn't grow up in Oakland. You grew up in an area where there is more trust and respect for the police, and where there is not considerable resentment towards the police. You were probably not a high profile hoops player at UM. While you may have been involved in situations in which you or your friends were provoked, you have not been in situations in which random people were saying/yelling racial stuff at you or trying to get a piece of you because you were a high profile athlete. Again, not disagreeing with your post or analysis, but you're making it from your shoes and not the shoes of high profile black athletes who grew up in Oakland and Baltimore, and who now reside in a very white town with plenty of rednecks and guys who think they are tough, especially when they are drinking. Like you, I would have done things different, and believe the guys, or at least Cherry, were wrong in some respects. However, I also believe that it is likely that the police unnecessarily escalated and provoked the situation, and certainly didn't know, or care, that someone had jumped Cherry and been racially insulted to him. Very few people on this board know what it's like to be racially insulted. And it's even more insulting and infuriating when the person of color has achieved more, and is more prominent (for lack of a better word), than the guy slinging the insults.

I have never heard a more convincing or compelling argument from you PR (let alone racial stereoptyping) that our recruiting process does indeed recruit thugs and needs a change.... You should get together with PW

According to you bringing in these kids who grew up black in Oakland we are to assume they grew up with a chip on their shoulder and a disregard for authority that we should excuse.

I don't buy any of it mind you, but you do a a good job selling it and should be commended

 

[Jerry Punch]

And by the way, PR, your boy Jason Washington looks to be going to federal prison for what you considered to be insignificant acts. But I know I would be expecting too much for you to admit error on that as well.

What "error" on JW would you like me to admit? I don't believe I ever said much on his situation. I assumed he'd probably plea or get convicted all along, and end up with a prison sentence.

Do you believe people should be charged and convicted with selling marijuana when it is legal under state law?

With the feds not going after sellers of now-legal marijuana (not just medical marijuana, but any marijuana) in Colorado and Washington, and not going after sellers of medical marijuana in states outside of MT, do you think sellers of medical marijuana in MT should be sent to federal provision?

Oh boy, here we go again.

JW was convicted for violating STATE law, PR. He sold to caregivers (illegal) and sold to people who aren't patients (also illegal). I'll let the legal scholars debate what will happen with Colorado and Washington. But this is Montana, PR. It isn't Colorado or Washington. Our state law allows for medical marijuana, but not in the way JW distributed and sold it.

Next.

 

[grizbrokebacker1]

You didn't grow up in Oakland. You grew up in an area where there is more trust and respect for the police, and where there is not considerable resentment towards the police.

so, this justifies Will's actions to tell the officer to "F-off" and resist arrest? :clap:

You've got your nose so far up Cherry's arse, you redefine brown-nosing. Darnit... label me a racist.

 

[Hells bells]

You didn't grow up in Oakland. You grew up in an area where there is more trust and respect for the police, and where there is not considerable resentment towards the police.

so, this justifies Will's actions to tell the officer to "F-off" and resist arrest? :clap:

You've got your nose so far up Cherry's arse, you redefine brown-nosing. Darnit... label me a racist.

:clap:

 

[PlayerRep]

I really don't like how quickly people throw out the race card or just make the assumption that the other person in the fight had to of been racist. None of you know that. Regardless, when a cop tells you to do something as simple as sitting down and shutting up, you do it. When I was in college in Missoula, I was in a similar situation. I was breaking up a fight and a cop rushed in, pointed a taser at me, and told me to sit on the ground and shut up. That's what I did and I was let go when the situation was dissolved. Nobody was arrested or tased because we listened (and because we knew the cops had a reputation of being taser happy...). You can't let your emotions get away from you in those situations.

Cherry seems to be a good person as does DeShields and I'd be surprised if charges weren't dropped, but you can't say this wasn't their fault at all. Nothing wrong with defending yourself, but when a cop tells you to stop and shut up, you do it if you don't want to be in the police blotter.

I don't disagree with you. However, you are neither black nor native american and you probably grew up in a smaller town in MT. You didn't grow up in Oakland. You grew up in an area where there is more trust and respect for the police, and where there is not considerable resentment towards the police. You were probably not a high profile hoops player at UM. While you may have been involved in situations in which you or your friends were provoked, you have not been in situations in which random people were saying/yelling racial stuff at you or trying to get a piece of you because you were a high profile athlete. Again, not disagreeing with your post or analysis, but you're making it from your shoes and not the shoes of high profile black athletes who grew up in Oakland and Baltimore, and who now reside in a very white town with plenty of rednecks and guys who think they are tough, especially when they are drinking. Like you, I would have done things different, and believe the guys, or at least Cherry, were wrong in some respects. However, I also believe that it is likely that the police unnecessarily escalated and provoked the situation, and certainly didn't know, or care, that someone had jumped Cherry and been racially insulted to him. Very few people on this board know what it's like to be racially insulted. And it's even more insulting and infuriating when the person of color has achieved more, and is more prominent (for lack of a better word), than the guy slinging the insults.

I have never heard a more convincing or compelling argument from you PR (let alone racial stereoptyping) that our recruiting process does indeed recruit thugs and needs a change.... You should get together with PW

According to you bringing in these kids who grew up black in Oakland we are to assume they grew up with a chip on their shoulder and a disregard for authority that we should excuse.

I don't buy any of it mind you, but you do a a good job selling it and should be commended

Please don't even suggest that recruiting people of color, including ones who get offended when racial slurs like the N word are directed at them, is recruiting thugs. My god, you are starting to show your ignorance and perhaps prejudice.

 

[PlayerRep]

And by the way, PR, your boy Jason Washington looks to be going to federal prison for what you considered to be insignificant acts. But I know I would be expecting too much for you to admit error on that as well.

What "error" on JW would you like me to admit? I don't believe I ever said much on his situation. I assumed he'd probably plea or get convicted all along, and end up with a prison sentence.

Do you believe people should be charged and convicted with selling marijuana when it is legal under state law?

With the feds not going after sellers of now-legal marijuana (not just medical marijuana, but any marijuana) in Colorado and Washington, and not going after sellers of medical marijuana in states outside of MT, do you think sellers of medical marijuana in MT should be sent to federal provision?

Oh boy, here we go again.

JW was convicted for violating STATE law, PR. He sold to caregivers (illegal) and sold to people who aren't patients (also illegal). I'll let the legal scholars debate what will happen with Colorado and Washington. But this is Montana, PR. It isn't Colorado or Washington. Our state law allows for medical marijuana, but not in the way JW distributed and sold it.

Next.

No he wasn't. State law wasn't even mentioned. His lawyer couldn't even argue that Montana had legal medical marijuana. He was convicted under federal law, in federal court, and is being sentence to federal prison. My good, how dumb are you. He was convicted of selling marijuana in violation of federal law; not selling to people who were not patients. The possible of marijuana to a person who was not a medical marijuana card holder was mentioned in the trial by prosecutors, but that's not what the conviction was for.

 

[PlayerRep]

You didn't grow up in Oakland. You grew up in an area where there is more trust and respect for the police, and where there is not considerable resentment towards the police.

so, this justifies Will's actions to tell the officer to "F-off" and resist arrest? :clap:

You've got your nose so far up Cherry's arse, you redefine brown-nosing. Darnit... label me a racist.

:clap:

I didn't justify Cherry's actions of telling the officer to FO. In fact, I said exactly the opposite. It looks like you can't refute what I've said or argued, so you have to make up something I didn't say, and try to argue against that. That's a telltale sign of someone who isn't very smart. It's done fairly often on this message board.

 

[BDizzle]

Lets all agree on a few things here.

1. The guy was in the wrong, no matter if he was high or drunk, to call Cherry the N word and to "jump" him as Cherry was walking away. I believe calling Cherry the N word and go after him is an example of racism. Guy might have regretted what he did the next day but he showed his true colors that night.

2. Cherry was in the wrong for not listening to police and telling them to F off. It doesn't matter if he was in the heat of the moment. You need to listen to the police. He probably wouldn't of gotten arrested if he would've just sat down and he definately wouldn't of been tazed.

3. Cherry is not a "thug". A few weeks ago we were praising him and talking about his pro chances. One incident doesn't change what he has done for the University of Montana.

4. eGriz is fun.

 

[tnt]

[

Please don't even suggest that recruiting people of color, including ones who get offended when racial slurs like the N word are directed at them, is recruiting thugs. My god, you are starting to show your ignorance and perhaps prejudice.

You said it, Cherry was to be excused because of his background that taught him disrespect for cops is okay because he was raised that way. Don't know that that's a black or white thing, I'm reasonably certain there white guys raised with a disrespect for authority as well. the used to be a bunch in northern Idaho.

The ignorance here is you. I haven't heard "people of color" since George Wallace. A guy comes at a cop anywhere tells him FU, I'm reasonably certain he is is going to the slammer.

I prefer to think Cherry made a bad decision, NOT as you are suggesting was raised to make bad decisions because of where he was from.

BTW it isn't illegal to call someone names, you do it all the time. So is it okay for one of those people to be offended and threaten you to the point of having to be held back by cooler heads.

 

[PlayerRep]

[

Please don't even suggest that recruiting people of color, including ones who get offended when racial slurs like the N word are directed at them, is recruiting thugs. My god, you are starting to show your ignorance and perhaps prejudice.

You said it, Cherry was to be excused because of his background that taught him disrespect for cops is okay because he was raised that way. Don't know that that's a black or white thing, I'm reasonably certain there white guys raised with a disrespect for authority as well. the used to be a bunch in northern Idaho.

The ignorance here is you. I haven't heard "people of color" since George Wallace. A guy comes at a cop anywhere tells him FU, I'm reasonably certain he is is going to the slammer.

I prefer to think Cherry made a bad decision, NOT as you are suggesting was raised to make bad decisions because of where he was from.

BTW it isn't illegal to call someone names, you do it all the time. So is it okay for one of those people to be offended and threaten you to the point of having to be held back by cooler heads.

Nope, never said Cherry was or should be excused. Didn't say Cherry was raised with respect for authority. People of color is actually the preferred term, or one of them, now. Shows how far out of it you are. Maybe ignorant is a better description of where you are.

From Wikipedia:

"Person of color (plural: people of color; persons of color) is a term used primarily in the United States to describe any person who is not white. The term is meant to be inclusive among non-white groups, emphasizing common experiences of racism. People of color was introduced as a preferable replacement to both non-white and minority, which are also inclusive, because it frames the subject positively; non-white defines people in terms of what they are not (white), and minority frequently carries a subordinate connotation.[1] Style guides for writing from American Heritage,[2] the Stanford Graduate School of Business,[3] Mount Holyoke College,[4] recommend the term over these alternatives. It may also be used with other collective categories of people such as students of color, men of color and women of color."

 

[AllWeatherFan]

I feel that the quote function is overused in this thread.

 

[tnt]

[
Nope, never said Cherry was or should be excused. Didn't say Cherry was raised with respect for authority. People of color is actually the preferred term, or one of them, now. Shows how far out of it you are. Maybe ignorant is a better description of where you are.

Thats correct you didn't say he was raised with a respect for authority, you made it clear that where he was from, and how he was raised was an excuse for lack of respect and poor decision. You went so far as to suggest other persons of color would likley react the same.

You turned to Wikipedia, and have the gall to call ME ignorant??? That seemingly modern euphemism, persons of color actually dates from the late 1700s and was revived in the late 1900s. It was most often used as in the case of grandmother to denote someone who was a persons of color because of the one drop rules..... Generally terms like this are used by the PC when they want to say something racist, but don't want it to sound that way.

Most are like the vast majority on this board (unlike you) who don't care what color someone is IF they follow the rules (including being respectful of authority) and only care when color is used as an excuse for doing otherwise. There are lots of reasons people get into bar fights many of whom have never been in fight anywhere else. Funny how BAR doesn't seem to figure into it.

Drawing on your vast football knowledge..... Which guy is most likely to get the flag? the guy who throws the punch or the guy who reacts? of course Cherry was a BB player.

Kinda funny how you want to have a discussion until it doesn't go your way, and you resort to the names.

 

[Jerry Punch]

Player, anything about your errors on the JW case? Or are you going to ignore that one too?

 

[grizbrokebacker1]

I didn't justify Cherry's actions of telling the officer to FO. In fact, I said exactly the opposite. It looks like you can't refute what I've said or argued, so you have to make up something I didn't say, and try to argue against that. That's a telltale sign of someone who isn't very smart. It's done fairly often on this message board.

Everyone knows your intent and can read through your thinly veiled arguments and rationalizations. So I'm not even going to requote what you've just said in this post and on the basketball forum.

I'm not smart? Do you even know me, my educational background, or anything about me? Why do you have to constantly make up lies?

 

[grizbrokebacker1]

People of color is actually the preferred term, or one of them, now. Shows how far out of it you are. Maybe ignorant is a better description of where you are.

From Wikipedia:

"Person of color (plural: people of color; persons of color) is a term used primarily in the United States to describe any person who is not white. The term is meant to be inclusive among non-white groups, emphasizing common experiences of racism. People of color was introduced as a preferable replacement to both non-white and minority, which are also inclusive, because it frames the subject positively; non-white defines people in terms of what they are not (white), and minority frequently carries a subordinate connotation.[1] Style guides for writing from American Heritage,[2] the Stanford Graduate School of Business,[3] Mount Holyoke College,[4] recommend the term over these alternatives. It may also be used with other collective categories of people such as students of color, men of color and women of color."

I beg and plead you to go up to all of the people of color that you claim to know and ask them how they feel about being called a "person of color". Get back to me with the results. This ought to be good.