Another View on Recent Griz "Incidents"

[UMGriz75]

I also feel it is time for coaches to restrict their players from renting homes. I hear that is where most of the trouble arises for parties. They need to restrict the athletes to living on campus or small apartment rentals. Also there has to be something done to keep these kids out of the damn bars, especially when they are under age. Yes it would suck to be limited in living options while on scholarship, but there are too many athletes screwing it up for the innocent ones. I would not blame the coaches and athletic department for implementing stricter policies for athletes and anyone on any scholarship.

It is time to make athletics a religious order.

Take vows of Coenobitic Monasticism. Live in the monastery. Remain celibate. Wear sackcloth. Eat ashes.

Don't be 19.

Raise goats.

 

[Washgrizfan1]

PR do you get paid by UM athletics to excuse the bad actions of their Student Athletes?
:?:

He used to think he was paying money to gain access to players, which was a bit sad. Some people actually pay big money to just support the program, and not just gain access to players.

Now, he's on the outside trying to find a way back in... :shock:

Guess you didn't notice him on the sidelines during the last scrimmage. He was talking to Dave Dickenson and John Edwards at one point.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Is expecting your athletes to use common sense asking too much?

 

[Griz-O-Matic]

It is time to make athletics a religious order.

Take vows of Coenobitic Monasticism. Live in the monastery. Remain celibate. Wear sackcloth. Eat ashes.

Don't be 19.

Raise goats.

Romans 13:13

Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealously.

...doesn't mean you can't get laid and have a drink now and then. :clap: :clap:

 

[Griz-O-Matic]

However, I'm pretty sure that passage doesn't condone "gangbangs".

 

[BDizzle]

2. Looking at the Cherry article and affidavit, it looks like a 34 year guy (I'm just going to guess he was white, but don't know) went after Cherry as Stocks closed. "Jumped" him, according to what was said in the affidavit. When somebody goes after a college kid, especially a black UM athlete, does it surprise any of you that a black athlete and his friends don't like that, especially at the end of an evening of being in the bars? This is a far too frequent occurrence in Missoula. In my view, it reflects the considerable prejudice and racism that lies with a small minority of people in this town. If you don't believe me, ask around the athletic department. Ask Jim O'Day.

Whatever. WTF does the color of ANY of their skin matter? This wasn't a race issue, plain and simple. For you to imply as much is idiotic.

Actually race played a huge part in the altercation. A drunk and (I'm guessing) stoned white guy was making racist comments and then came up and continued to antagonize Cherry.

Not that I don't believe you BDizzle but was this in the affidavit (I can't view it) or did you just hear this (or witness it?).

I don't believe the affidavit states what caused the confrontation before the police arrived. And I was not there. But I did hear from multiple sources that the 34 year old was the instigator and Cherry tried walking away. But my sources are friends of Cherry so it may be biased. The 34 year old is honestly lucky he didn't get his ass kicked.

 

[mtgrizrule]

Whatever. WTF does the color of ANY of their skin matter? This wasn't a race issue, plain and simple. For you to imply as much is idiotic.

Actually race played a huge part in the altercation. A drunk and (I'm guessing) stoned white guy was making racist comments and then came up and continued to antagonize Cherry.

Not that I don't believe you BDizzle but was this in the affidavit (I can't view it) or did you just hear this (or witness it?).

I don't believe the affidavit states what caused the confrontation before the police arrived. And I was not there. But I did hear from multiple sources that the 34 year old was the instigator and Cherry tried walking away. But my sources are friends of Cherry so it may be biased. The 34 year old is honestly lucky he didn't get his ass kicked.

Here is to hoping what you heard is what turns out to be the truth, or close to it.

 

[NorthwestFresh]

Guess you didn't notice him on the sidelines during the last scrimmage. He was talking to Dave Dickenson and John Edwards at one point.

Well whoopety freaking doo. :lol:

Thanks for confirming my point about PR craving access. Plus, are you PR's groupie, now? :shock:

 

[goatcreekgriz]

There isn't one person (especially in Msla) that would jump a guy and beat his ass ONLY because he's black. Not fu*king one person.

2

Says Hoss who waves the Confederate flag on his posts. Ironic? Pathetic? Both?

I enjoy Alpha's posts in general, but this statement is flat wrong, and punctuated by fake "rebel" bravado.

 

[Ken Jones]

Racism is a human condition ... stupid is as stupid does.

This is what my famous friends do on festive nights. Take their smart phone, record the incidents, put it on YouTube, then the stupidity of human behavior can be witnessed by all.

Racially antagonize or not ... stupid is as stupid does.

 

[grizrgood]

I'm no saint. I've was in trouble for more than disturbing the peace in my youth, but that all changed when I landed a good paying job for a company that valued its image in the community and didn't want to be associated with the employees who behaved like childish assholes in their free time.

If a Griz athlete values his scholarship, values being on the team, is it really asking much of him to stay out of the police blotter. If it's just "petty" offenses, then it really shouldn't be hard to clean up.
I agree that non-student athletes get written up for this stuff, too. If a kid wants to trade the privileges of being a Griz for the privileges of being a non-student athlete, Haslam should do everything possible to help him with the transition.

Well said sir! This completely sums it up for me!

 

[84GRIZ]

Maybe it is just me but I find it just as interesting that there is nothing in the Missoulian regarding the police officer "pepper spraying" the crowd along with the tasing of Cherry. I am waiting for the cell phone videos to come out on that one and am wondering how many possible lawsuits against the City of Missoula will come of it. And I am not saying that the cop was out of line but in today's age of legal lawsuits for just about anything I bet city admin. and attorney are not to happy.

 

[Twincitysgriz]

I found this site interesting. http://arrestnation.com/2012-arrest-stats/, Its probably been posted before but oh well.

 

[grizfan47]

I am just curious for those of you that seem to be second guessing the police officers if you have ever been in a situation where there were 6 (give or take a couple guys) of you to control a large group of alcohol fueled, ramped up, somewhat angry and certainly agitated group of young people. In addition, you had to get all of the combatants to quit fighting and threatening each other long enough to speak with them in an effort to find out who did what. Then the combatants turn on you as well while you are constantly looking over your shoulder to see if the agitated crowd is closing in on you or standing back. Maybe you should call for help but you probably have every available officer already with you. Now you have to decide how to control all of the situation, determine if a crime has been commited and make arrests if they are warranted. If the combatant refuses your efforts to calm, speak and discontinue his agression; you have to decide how to effect the arrest without bringing the mob in on top of you. Is a taser better than getting into a wrestling match that may take two or more of you to control? If you choose to wrestle then who is left to cover your back against others taking their shots at you. If you wrestle you and/or the combatant may end up with injuries that are worse then the taser. God forbid an NBA prospect break his hand while scuffling with the police.

These are all decisions that have to be made in the midst of a very tense situation with very uncooperative combatants and a very thin line with the crowd being bystanders or aggressors. I would suspect that many of the officers are not that much older than the crowd they are trying to control. Wrong decisions are made in the heat of battle so to speak. And some decisions are the exactly right.

The one thing we know is that if you put yourself in the position to be involved in confrontations then you will be accountable for your actions whether you started it or not.

 

[PlayerRep]

I am just curious for those of you that seem to be second guessing the police officers if you have ever been in a situation where there were 6 (give or take a couple guys) of you to control a large group of alcohol fueled, ramped up, somewhat angry and certainly agitated group of young people. In addition, you had to get all of the combatants to quit fighting and threatening each other long enough to speak with them in an effort to find out who did what. Then the combatants turn on you as well while you are constantly looking over your shoulder to see if the agitated crowd is closing in on you or standing back. Maybe you should call for help but you probably have every available officer already with you. Now you have to decide how to control all of the situation, determine if a crime has been commited and make arrests if they are warranted. If the combatant refuses your efforts to calm, speak and discontinue his agression; you have to decide how to effect the arrest without bringing the mob in on top of you. Is a taser better than getting into a wrestling match that may take two or more of you to control? If you choose to wrestle then who is left to cover your back against others taking their shots at you. If you wrestle you and/or the combatant may end up with injuries that are worse then the taser. God forbid an NBA prospect break his hand while scuffling with the police.

These are all decisions that have to be made in the midst of a very tense situation with very uncooperative combatants and a very thin line with the crowd being bystanders or aggressors. I would suspect that many of the officers are not that much older than the crowd they are trying to control. Wrong decisions are made in the heat of battle so to speak. And some decisions are the exactly right.

The one thing we know is that if you put yourself in the position to be involved in confrontations then you will be accountable for your actions whether you started it or not.

Good points and questions.

However, I would ask additionally, why is it necessary for police officers to charge into a situation like this--without knowing what's going on (which he couldn't have because he had just arrived according to his affidavit)--and start ordering people around, grabbing someone/people, and then making arrests and tasering someone? From reading the affidavits, it doesn't look like anyone was actually fighting or throwing punches. Restraint was already coming from people who were there and presumably knew who they were restraining. I would ask if the officer's actions actually escalated the situation. If this actually occurred, why would the police have to pepper spray the crowd? Did that escalate the situation or help the situation? Why did the crowd even have to dispersed? Why taser a person in this situation? While it looks like the kid wasn't fully cooperating, I don't think a situation like this deserves tasering.

What would have happened if the police had a stood back a bit, making their points verbally from a short distance? I think the situation may have diffused itself.

Another question is what would have happened if the police had not even been there or intervened?

What were the police trying to protect? This wasn't a riot. Doesn't sound like anything was being broken. From the affidavits, it doesn't sound like this was even an actual fighting.

Again, your views/questions are valid, and I'm not trying to minimize them. I'm just asking more questions.

 

[garizzalies]

hahahahaha do you even read what you post?
Instead of breaking up a fight, cops should "stand back" and "make their points verbally"?
Yeah, cops need to practice being "passive agressive" like the rest of MSLA. That makes perfect sense.

 

[getgrizzy]

I am just curious for those of you that seem to be second guessing the police officers if you have ever been in a situation where there were 6 (give or take a couple guys) of you to control a large group of alcohol fueled, ramped up, somewhat angry and certainly agitated group of young people. In addition, you had to get all of the combatants to quit fighting and threatening each other long enough to speak with them in an effort to find out who did what. Then the combatants turn on you as well while you are constantly looking over your shoulder to see if the agitated crowd is closing in on you or standing back. Maybe you should call for help but you probably have every available officer already with you. Now you have to decide how to control all of the situation, determine if a crime has been commited and make arrests if they are warranted. If the combatant refuses your efforts to calm, speak and discontinue his agression; you have to decide how to effect the arrest without bringing the mob in on top of you. Is a taser better than getting into a wrestling match that may take two or more of you to control? If you choose to wrestle then who is left to cover your back against others taking their shots at you. If you wrestle you and/or the combatant may end up with injuries that are worse then the taser. God forbid an NBA prospect break his hand while scuffling with the police.

These are all decisions that have to be made in the midst of a very tense situation with very uncooperative combatants and a very thin line with the crowd being bystanders or aggressors. I would suspect that many of the officers are not that much older than the crowd they are trying to control. Wrong decisions are made in the heat of battle so to speak. And some decisions are the exactly right.

The one thing we know is that if you put yourself in the position to be involved in confrontations then you will be accountable for your actions whether you started it or not.

wow, excellent post. i saw it earlier but waited to see if anyone would give you props. as i figured no one did and, of course playerrep pounced when he saw he'd get no resistance. everyone is to blame except the players. the cops, newspaper, non-athletes involved, engstrom, etc etc etc etc.

 

[Jerry Punch]

I think we can put a microscope on each incident and parse out things all day long. And PR, I agree with most of what you wrote. The bigger problem is the reputation of the program and to a lesser degree the University. Right or wrong, people who read the headlines in Montana are losing their faith in the team and the institution. No doubt it is hurting financial support and enrollment. Call it quantity over quality of bad press reports (i.e. stupid actions by athletes) if you like, an unfair focus on the team but the bottom line is the brand is surely suffering.

The real question is how do you right the ship and repair the program's reputation? The first step has to be stop digging (i.e. stop these almost weekly news reports) and stop blaming. The second is to promote the postive things that student athletes do in the community and what the University does for the State of Montana.

If only there was another university that was close in distance, size and demographics that we could compare ourselves to... As much as I hate to admit it, right now we are losing that comparison. Especially with the 900.000 Montanans that only read headlines.

We need to address this.

Great post, Ursa.

I agree with any sane person that the Missoulian digs, retreads, and exaggerates bordering on lies when it writes about its hometown University. Their agenda is obvious, even to this Bobcat.

However, it is undeniable that you aren't "digging" for a story if it involves the arrest of one of the biggest and best athletes UM Basketball has ever had. That's news. It would be news in any other college town if an athlete with a high profile got in a situation like that to be arrested.

I also agree with Ursa that the blaming needs to stop, at least as far as a criminal conviction is concerned. I think blame is legitimate in every instance in which a young athlete puts himself in a situation to have an arrest or altercation occur. To write, as our resident legal scholar does, that it's all the fault of ignorant white racists in Missoula is naïve and overly simple. I partied heavily throughout college and along with a great number of friends who did the same, we never managed to be arrested or get caught up in the heat of the moment when police arrived. The simple answer is that you shouldn't do something to get yourself arrested. Regardless of the criminal conviction that may or may not follow, it isn't too hard to avoid the alleged persecution of white people in downtown Missoula.

 

[narly]

I think we can put a microscope on each incident and parse out things all day long. And PR, I agree with most of what you wrote. The bigger problem is the reputation of the program and to a lesser degree the University. Right or wrong, people who read the headlines in Montana are losing their faith in the team and the institution. No doubt it is hurting financial support and enrollment. Call it quantity over quality of bad press reports (i.e. stupid actions by athletes) if you like, an unfair focus on the team but the bottom line is the brand is surely suffering.

The real question is how do you right the ship and repair the program's reputation? The first step has to be stop digging (i.e. stop these almost weekly news reports) and stop blaming. The second is to promote the postive things that student athletes do in the community and what the University does for the State of Montana.

If only there was another university that was close in distance, size and demographics that we could compare ourselves to... As much as I hate to admit it, right now we are losing that comparison. Especially with the 900.000 Montanans that only read headlines.

We need to address this.

Great post, Ursa.

I agree with any sane person that the Missoulian digs, retreads, and exaggerates bordering on lies when it writes about its hometown University. Their agenda is obvious, even to this Bobcat.

However, it is undeniable that you aren't "digging" for a story if it involves the arrest of one of the biggest and best athletes UM Basketball has ever had. That's news. It would be news in any other college town if an athlete with a high profile got in a situation like that to be arrested.

I also agree with Ursa that the blaming needs to stop, at least as far as a criminal conviction is concerned. I think blame is legitimate in every instance in which a young athlete puts himself in a situation to have an arrest or altercation occur. To write, as our resident legal scholar does, that it's all the fault of ignorant white racists in Missoula is naïve and overly simple. I partied heavily throughout college and along with a great number of friends who did the same, we never managed to be arrested or get caught up in the heat of the moment when police arrived. The simple answer is that you shouldn't do something to get yourself arrested. Regardless of the criminal conviction that may or may not follow, it isn't too hard to avoid the alleged persecution of white people in downtown Missoula.

Racist

 

[CV Griz Fan]

The racism part of this thread is the part that I find most inteteresting. I am from So Cal and I have been to Missoula twice
during the last six months for football games. Mizzoula is beautiful. But let's be honest. It is not what I would call a "diverse"
city in terms of race. I never saw racism but then again, I am white. This may be a stupid quesion but has anyone asked
any of the black athletes from UM how THEY feel about Missoula and how the blacks are treated there? Having a bunch of middle aged white guys argue and debate this issue is kind of meaningless. Someone has to ask Tru, Gerald and others what their views on the subject are? Missoula, are you ready for the answer?