Another View on Recent Griz "Incidents"

[narly]

After looking looking at various newspaper articles and the linked affidavit related to the Cherry charges, and thinking about this subject, I will offer some observations and contrary views.

1. While I wish none of this recent stuff was happening, especially with what some have referred to as "UM athletics being under a microscope", it doesn't surprise me that kids, including college kids and UM athletes, are getting into fights, having loud parties, and driving after drinking. This has happened for years and will likely continue. If it surprises some of you, then I wonder what you and your friends did in college, whether you have ever lived or experienced life, and/or what planet you are from.

2. Looking at the Cherry article and affidavit, it looks like a 34 year guy (I'm just going to guess he was white, but don't know) went after Cherry as Stocks closed. "Jumped" him, according to what was said in the affidavit. When somebody goes after a college kid, especially a black UM athlete, does it surprise any of you that a black athlete and his friends don't like that, especially at the end of an evening of being in the bars? This is a far too frequent occurrence in Missoula. In my view, it reflects the considerable prejudice and racism that lies with a small minority of people in this town. If you don't believe me, ask around the athletic department. Ask Jim O'Day.

3. In the Cherry affidavit, there is no mention of Cherry or DeShields throwing a punch. Lots of talking. I supposed there could have been more or other things.

4. Assuming the officer's affidavit it accurate (and based on my many years of experience as a lawyer, following criminal procedure developments and reading articles, I generally don't believe all of what's in charging affidavits and know that there are often important omissions), Cherry was basically telling the other guy to bring it on, and later pulled away from the cop and gave the cop a few FU's. If true, that's obviously unfortunate, and should not have occurred. However, I don't understand why a cop just coming into the situation (as he admitted in the affidavit) would come running into this type of situation and order Cherry, or any black or white kid, to sit on the curb. How could the cop have known what was going on? Sounds like no punches were being thrown at the time. Unnecessary confrontation can and does escalate situations.

5. Then when the cop has decided to arrest Cherry, Will pulls away and says FU a time or two to the cop. When the cop tries to pull Cherry's arm back to handcuff him, the cop supposedly warns him that he'll be tased if he doesn't cooperate, and then tases him. I guess I just don't believe in tasing in situations like this. Just don't see why tasing, which can seriously hurt people and even kill them, is used so easily. Note that an order guy died after being tased in MT within the last month or so.

7. Interesting that Paoli is representing Cherry and DeShields. Not really a criminal lawyer. Great civil and plaintiffs lawyer. Just won the JJ case in spectacular fashion. Has sued the city and won hundreds of thousands of dollars previously. Hum. The city better have their ducks in order on this one. With phones and video, and often multiple witnesses, it will be interesting to learn more. What if Cherry is physically damaged by this and his professional career is affected? Hum.

8. In the version of the affidavit included with the Missoulian article, the name of the charging officer who gave the affidavit is blacked out. What's with that? Who blacked that out? Two other officers are named in the affidavit. I sure hope this isn't a tase-happy cop. Paoli will come after that one big-time, if it is.

9. If the Missoulian is looking for something to cover other than arrests and citations related to UM athlete fights, loud parties and dui's, perhaps they could look into the significant prejudice and racism that occurs in Missoula, often directed at blacks and native americans. The gang bang and sexual assault thing sure hasn't worked out for the Missoulian. Zero gang bangs. They're lucky that Donaldson bailed them out. Otherwise they would have had zero involving athletes, from what seems to be public and out there.

10. I know this won't happen (and I'm also not really being serious)--and know alot of dumbass posters will come flying out of the woodwork--but another way to deal with these issues is: to do it the old fashion way. Stop pursuing so many of these situations that may not deserve escalation and confrontation, and stop giving them so much attention and publicity. Does a minor fight involving a UM athlete in front of Stocks really deserve more attention in the Missoulian, than the Boston marathon bombing or the death of a former Lady Griz athlete? I know this kind of stuff has become a big deal in recent years at UM, but I'm sorry, I guess I just don't get as worked up about fights, loud parties, etc. as some people. I wish it would all stop, but it probably won't. Maybe UM and Haslam can figure out how to at least reduce it. Does it seem to have gotten worse since Engstrom became the president?

Okay, enought of this. Back to the beach.

P.S. This post is intended to stimulate constructive and intellectual discussion. Ha-ha.

You just had to play the race card, eh Player Rep? I guess it is standard fare these days any time something negative happens to a person of color. I do not subscribe to the mantra of political correctness which pervades this country these days, so I will give you my two cents, based upon facts instead of pathetic blame-placing. Blacks make up 15% of the U.S. population, yet make up over 60% of the federal and state prison population. Is it racist to point this fact out? I am sure that many of you do-righters will jump on me for stating a fact, but facts do not lie.

The same skewed percentages are seen around Grizzly athletes who get arrested. While I am unsure of the exact numbers, there are probably about 20-30 Grizzly football and basketball players on the squads. This means that out of about 100 athletes, only 20-30% of them are black. Yet, significantly more than half of the arrests of Griz athletes are the arrest of these minorities. Is this a coincidence, or does it mirror our society? I guess I am a racist for pointing these facts out. If so, then I don't really give a rip. I will wear the badge proudly. Frankly I am tired of apologists like Player Rep trying to say that the reason these black kids keep getting arrested is due to racism in the Missoula Community. I just do not buy it, and it is another example of a blatant cop-out (no pun intended) which pervades our politically correct society. There, flame away apologists!

 

[PlayerRep]

After looking looking at various newspaper articles and the linked affidavit related to the Cherry charges, and thinking about this subject, I will offer some observations and contrary views.

1. While I wish none of this recent stuff was happening, especially with what some have referred to as "UM athletics being under a microscope", it doesn't surprise me that kids, including college kids and UM athletes, are getting into fights, having loud parties, and driving after drinking. This has happened for years and will likely continue. If it surprises some of you, then I wonder what you and your friends did in college, whether you have ever lived or experienced life, and/or what planet you are from.

2. Looking at the Cherry article and affidavit, it looks like a 34 year guy (I'm just going to guess he was white, but don't know) went after Cherry as Stocks closed. "Jumped" him, according to what was said in the affidavit. When somebody goes after a college kid, especially a black UM athlete, does it surprise any of you that a black athlete and his friends don't like that, especially at the end of an evening of being in the bars? This is a far too frequent occurrence in Missoula. In my view, it reflects the considerable prejudice and racism that lies with a small minority of people in this town. If you don't believe me, ask around the athletic department. Ask Jim O'Day.

3. In the Cherry affidavit, there is no mention of Cherry or DeShields throwing a punch. Lots of talking. I supposed there could have been more or other things.

4. Assuming the officer's affidavit it accurate (and based on my many years of experience as a lawyer, following criminal procedure developments and reading articles, I generally don't believe all of what's in charging affidavits and know that there are often important omissions), Cherry was basically telling the other guy to bring it on, and later pulled away from the cop and gave the cop a few FU's. If true, that's obviously unfortunate, and should not have occurred. However, I don't understand why a cop just coming into the situation (as he admitted in the affidavit) would come running into this type of situation and order Cherry, or any black or white kid, to sit on the curb. How could the cop have known what was going on? Sounds like no punches were being thrown at the time. Unnecessary confrontation can and does escalate situations.

5. Then when the cop has decided to arrest Cherry, Will pulls away and says FU a time or two to the cop. When the cop tries to pull Cherry's arm back to handcuff him, the cop supposedly warns him that he'll be tased if he doesn't cooperate, and then tases him. I guess I just don't believe in tasing in situations like this. Just don't see why tasing, which can seriously hurt people and even kill them, is used so easily. Note that an order guy died after being tased in MT within the last month or so.

7. Interesting that Paoli is representing Cherry and DeShields. Not really a criminal lawyer. Great civil and plaintiffs lawyer. Just won the JJ case in spectacular fashion. Has sued the city and won hundreds of thousands of dollars previously. Hum. The city better have their ducks in order on this one. With phones and video, and often multiple witnesses, it will be interesting to learn more. What if Cherry is physically damaged by this and his professional career is affected? Hum.

8. In the version of the affidavit included with the Missoulian article, the name of the charging officer who gave the affidavit is blacked out. What's with that? Who blacked that out? Two other officers are named in the affidavit. I sure hope this isn't a tase-happy cop. Paoli will come after that one big-time, if it is.

9. If the Missoulian is looking for something to cover other than arrests and citations related to UM athlete fights, loud parties and dui's, perhaps they could look into the significant prejudice and racism that occurs in Missoula, often directed at blacks and native americans. The gang bang and sexual assault thing sure hasn't worked out for the Missoulian. Zero gang bangs. They're lucky that Donaldson bailed them out. Otherwise they would have had zero involving athletes, from what seems to be public and out there.

10. I know this won't happen (and I'm also not really being serious)--and know alot of dumbass posters will come flying out of the woodwork--but another way to deal with these issues is: to do it the old fashion way. Stop pursuing so many of these situations that may not deserve escalation and confrontation, and stop giving them so much attention and publicity. Does a minor fight involving a UM athlete in front of Stocks really deserve more attention in the Missoulian, than the Boston marathon bombing or the death of a former Lady Griz athlete? I know this kind of stuff has become a big deal in recent years at UM, but I'm sorry, I guess I just don't get as worked up about fights, loud parties, etc. as some people. I wish it would all stop, but it probably won't. Maybe UM and Haslam can figure out how to at least reduce it. Does it seem to have gotten worse since Engstrom became the president?

Okay, enought of this. Back to the beach.

P.S. This post is intended to stimulate constructive and intellectual discussion. Ha-ha.

You just had to play the race card, eh Player Rep? I guess it is standard fare these days any time something negative happens to a person of color. I do not subscribe to the mantra of political correctness which pervades this country these days, so I will give you my two cents, based upon facts instead of pathetic blame-placing. Blacks make up 15% of the U.S. population, yet make up over 60% of the federal and state prison population. Is it racist to point this fact out? I am sure that many of you do-righters will jump on me for stating a fact, but facts do not lie.

The same skewed percentages are seen around Grizzly athletes who get arrested. While I am unsure of the exact numbers, there are probably about 20-30 Grizzly football and basketball players on the squads. This means that out of about 100 athletes, only 20-30% of them are black. Yet, significantly more than half of the arrests of Griz athletes are the arrest of these minorities. Is this a coincidence, or does it mirror our society? I guess I am a racist for pointing these facts out. If so, then I don't really give a rip. I will wear the badge proudly. Frankly I am tired of apologists like Player Rep trying to say that the reason these black kids keep getting arrested is due to racism in the Missoula Community. I just do not buy it, and it is another example of a blatant cop-out (no pun intended) which pervades our politically correct society. There, flame away apologists!

Another way of looking at your 15%/60% stat is that it proves, or supports the view that there is, racism--in arresting and convicting.

As for the 50% comment in your last paragraph, i.e. that half of the arrests are of blacks, there's been discussion on the board in the past showing that that stat is absolutely not true. While a number of the latest incidents have involved black players, historically, most of the arrests and incidents are of white players. Why do people like you have to make up stuff, and tell lies?

 

[PlayerRep]

hahahahaha do you even read what you post?
Instead of breaking up a fight, cops should "stand back" and "make their points verbally"?
Yeah, cops need to practice being "passive agressive" like the rest of MSLA. That makes perfect sense.

If you look at the affidavits done by the arresting officer, there was no fight being broken up. There was no mention that any fight had even occurred, or that any punch had been thrown.

Let's see you tell us what the police were trying or needing to accomplish.

 

[tnt]

hahahahaha do you even read what you post?
Instead of breaking up a fight, cops should "stand back" and "make their points verbally"?
Yeah, cops need to practice being "passive agressive" like the rest of MSLA. That makes perfect sense.

If you look at the affidavits done by the arresting officer, there was no fight being broken up. There was no mention that any fight had even occurred, or that any punch had been thrown.

Let's see you tell us what the police were trying or needing to accomplish.

Apparently for Mr. Cherry to sit down down and shut up as he was told to do while they sorted things out, something most learn in Kindergarten.

 

[Ursa Major]

After looking looking at various newspaper articles and the linked affidavit related to the Cherry charges, and thinking about this subject, I will offer some observations and contrary views.

1. While I wish none of this recent stuff was happening, especially with what some have referred to as "UM athletics being under a microscope", it doesn't surprise me that kids, including college kids and UM athletes, are getting into fights, having loud parties, and driving after drinking. This has happened for years and will likely continue. If it surprises some of you, then I wonder what you and your friends did in college, whether you have ever lived or experienced life, and/or what planet you are from.

2. Looking at the Cherry article and affidavit, it looks like a 34 year guy (I'm just going to guess he was white, but don't know) went after Cherry as Stocks closed. "Jumped" him, according to what was said in the affidavit. When somebody goes after a college kid, especially a black UM athlete, does it surprise any of you that a black athlete and his friends don't like that, especially at the end of an evening of being in the bars? This is a far too frequent occurrence in Missoula. In my view, it reflects the considerable prejudice and racism that lies with a small minority of people in this town. If you don't believe me, ask around the athletic department. Ask Jim O'Day.

3. In the Cherry affidavit, there is no mention of Cherry or DeShields throwing a punch. Lots of talking. I supposed there could have been more or other things.

4. Assuming the officer's affidavit it accurate (and based on my many years of experience as a lawyer, following criminal procedure developments and reading articles, I generally don't believe all of what's in charging affidavits and know that there are often important omissions), Cherry was basically telling the other guy to bring it on, and later pulled away from the cop and gave the cop a few FU's. If true, that's obviously unfortunate, and should not have occurred. However, I don't understand why a cop just coming into the situation (as he admitted in the affidavit) would come running into this type of situation and order Cherry, or any black or white kid, to sit on the curb. How could the cop have known what was going on? Sounds like no punches were being thrown at the time. Unnecessary confrontation can and does escalate situations.

5. Then when the cop has decided to arrest Cherry, Will pulls away and says FU a time or two to the cop. When the cop tries to pull Cherry's arm back to handcuff him, the cop supposedly warns him that he'll be tased if he doesn't cooperate, and then tases him. I guess I just don't believe in tasing in situations like this. Just don't see why tasing, which can seriously hurt people and even kill them, is used so easily. Note that an order guy died after being tased in MT within the last month or so.

7. Interesting that Paoli is representing Cherry and DeShields. Not really a criminal lawyer. Great civil and plaintiffs lawyer. Just won the JJ case in spectacular fashion. Has sued the city and won hundreds of thousands of dollars previously. Hum. The city better have their ducks in order on this one. With phones and video, and often multiple witnesses, it will be interesting to learn more. What if Cherry is physically damaged by this and his professional career is affected? Hum.

8. In the version of the affidavit included with the Missoulian article, the name of the charging officer who gave the affidavit is blacked out. What's with that? Who blacked that out? Two other officers are named in the affidavit. I sure hope this isn't a tase-happy cop. Paoli will come after that one big-time, if it is.

9. If the Missoulian is looking for something to cover other than arrests and citations related to UM athlete fights, loud parties and dui's, perhaps they could look into the significant prejudice and racism that occurs in Missoula, often directed at blacks and native americans. The gang bang and sexual assault thing sure hasn't worked out for the Missoulian. Zero gang bangs. They're lucky that Donaldson bailed them out. Otherwise they would have had zero involving athletes, from what seems to be public and out there.

10. I know this won't happen (and I'm also not really being serious)--and know alot of dumbass posters will come flying out of the woodwork--but another way to deal with these issues is: to do it the old fashion way. Stop pursuing so many of these situations that may not deserve escalation and confrontation, and stop giving them so much attention and publicity. Does a minor fight involving a UM athlete in front of Stocks really deserve more attention in the Missoulian, than the Boston marathon bombing or the death of a former Lady Griz athlete? I know this kind of stuff has become a big deal in recent years at UM, but I'm sorry, I guess I just don't get as worked up about fights, loud parties, etc. as some people. I wish it would all stop, but it probably won't. Maybe UM and Haslam can figure out how to at least reduce it. Does it seem to have gotten worse since Engstrom became the president?

Okay, enought of this. Back to the beach.

P.S. This post is intended to stimulate constructive and intellectual discussion. Ha-ha.

You just had to play the race card, eh Player Rep? I guess it is standard fare these days any time something negative happens to a person of color. I do not subscribe to the mantra of political correctness which pervades this country these days, so I will give you my two cents, based upon facts instead of pathetic blame-placing. Blacks make up 15% of the U.S. population, yet make up over 60% of the federal and state prison population. Is it racist to point this fact out? I am sure that many of you do-righters will jump on me for stating a fact, but facts do not lie.

The same skewed percentages are seen around Grizzly athletes who get arrested. While I am unsure of the exact numbers, there are probably about 20-30 Grizzly football and basketball players on the squads. This means that out of about 100 athletes, only 20-30% of them are black. Yet, significantly more than half of the arrests of Griz athletes are the arrest of these minorities. Is this a coincidence, or does it mirror our society? I guess I am a racist for pointing these facts out. If so, then I don't really give a rip. I will wear the badge proudly. Frankly I am tired of apologists like Player Rep trying to say that the reason these black kids keep getting arrested is due to racism in the Missoula Community. I just do not buy it, and it is another example of a blatant cop-out (no pun intended) which pervades our politically correct society. There, flame away apologists!

Thanks Growler!

 

[MrTitleist]

After looking looking at various newspaper articles and the linked affidavit related to the Cherry charges, and thinking about this subject, I will offer some observations and contrary views.

1. While I wish none of this recent stuff was happening, especially with what some have referred to as "UM athletics being under a microscope", it doesn't surprise me that kids, including college kids and UM athletes, are getting into fights, having loud parties, and driving after drinking. This has happened for years and will likely continue. If it surprises some of you, then I wonder what you and your friends did in college, whether you have ever lived or experienced life, and/or what planet you are from.

2. Looking at the Cherry article and affidavit, it looks like a 34 year guy (I'm just going to guess he was white, but don't know) went after Cherry as Stocks closed. "Jumped" him, according to what was said in the affidavit. When somebody goes after a college kid, especially a black UM athlete, does it surprise any of you that a black athlete and his friends don't like that, especially at the end of an evening of being in the bars? This is a far too frequent occurrence in Missoula. In my view, it reflects the considerable prejudice and racism that lies with a small minority of people in this town. If you don't believe me, ask around the athletic department. Ask Jim O'Day.

3. In the Cherry affidavit, there is no mention of Cherry or DeShields throwing a punch. Lots of talking. I supposed there could have been more or other things.

4. Assuming the officer's affidavit it accurate (and based on my many years of experience as a lawyer, following criminal procedure developments and reading articles, I generally don't believe all of what's in charging affidavits and know that there are often important omissions), Cherry was basically telling the other guy to bring it on, and later pulled away from the cop and gave the cop a few FU's. If true, that's obviously unfortunate, and should not have occurred. However, I don't understand why a cop just coming into the situation (as he admitted in the affidavit) would come running into this type of situation and order Cherry, or any black or white kid, to sit on the curb. How could the cop have known what was going on? Sounds like no punches were being thrown at the time. Unnecessary confrontation can and does escalate situations.

5. Then when the cop has decided to arrest Cherry, Will pulls away and says FU a time or two to the cop. When the cop tries to pull Cherry's arm back to handcuff him, the cop supposedly warns him that he'll be tased if he doesn't cooperate, and then tases him. I guess I just don't believe in tasing in situations like this. Just don't see why tasing, which can seriously hurt people and even kill them, is used so easily. Note that an order guy died after being tased in MT within the last month or so.

7. Interesting that Paoli is representing Cherry and DeShields. Not really a criminal lawyer. Great civil and plaintiffs lawyer. Just won the JJ case in spectacular fashion. Has sued the city and won hundreds of thousands of dollars previously. Hum. The city better have their ducks in order on this one. With phones and video, and often multiple witnesses, it will be interesting to learn more. What if Cherry is physically damaged by this and his professional career is affected? Hum.

8. In the version of the affidavit included with the Missoulian article, the name of the charging officer who gave the affidavit is blacked out. What's with that? Who blacked that out? Two other officers are named in the affidavit. I sure hope this isn't a tase-happy cop. Paoli will come after that one big-time, if it is.

9. If the Missoulian is looking for something to cover other than arrests and citations related to UM athlete fights, loud parties and dui's, perhaps they could look into the significant prejudice and racism that occurs in Missoula, often directed at blacks and native americans. The gang bang and sexual assault thing sure hasn't worked out for the Missoulian. Zero gang bangs. They're lucky that Donaldson bailed them out. Otherwise they would have had zero involving athletes, from what seems to be public and out there.

10. I know this won't happen (and I'm also not really being serious)--and know alot of dumbass posters will come flying out of the woodwork--but another way to deal with these issues is: to do it the old fashion way. Stop pursuing so many of these situations that may not deserve escalation and confrontation, and stop giving them so much attention and publicity. Does a minor fight involving a UM athlete in front of Stocks really deserve more attention in the Missoulian, than the Boston marathon bombing or the death of a former Lady Griz athlete? I know this kind of stuff has become a big deal in recent years at UM, but I'm sorry, I guess I just don't get as worked up about fights, loud parties, etc. as some people. I wish it would all stop, but it probably won't. Maybe UM and Haslam can figure out how to at least reduce it. Does it seem to have gotten worse since Engstrom became the president?

Okay, enought of this. Back to the beach.

P.S. This post is intended to stimulate constructive and intellectual discussion. Ha-ha.

You just had to play the race card, eh Player Rep? I guess it is standard fare these days any time something negative happens to a person of color. I do not subscribe to the mantra of political correctness which pervades this country these days, so I will give you my two cents, based upon facts instead of pathetic blame-placing. Blacks make up 15% of the U.S. population, yet make up over 60% of the federal and state prison population. Is it racist to point this fact out? I am sure that many of you do-righters will jump on me for stating a fact, but facts do not lie.

The same skewed percentages are seen around Grizzly athletes who get arrested. While I am unsure of the exact numbers, there are probably about 20-30 Grizzly football and basketball players on the squads. This means that out of about 100 athletes, only 20-30% of them are black. Yet, significantly more than half of the arrests of Griz athletes are the arrest of these minorities. Is this a coincidence, or does it mirror our society? I guess I am a racist for pointing these facts out. If so, then I don't really give a rip. I will wear the badge proudly. Frankly I am tired of apologists like Player Rep trying to say that the reason these black kids keep getting arrested is due to racism in the Missoula Community. I just do not buy it, and it is another example of a blatant cop-out (no pun intended) which pervades our politically correct society. There, flame away apologists!

Thanks Growler!

Ha, Nailed it! We see you AzGriz/Wolfman/SeattleGrizFan!

 

[PTGrizzly]

Just because fights are "common-place" does not make it acceptable for them to happen, especially with athletes. As for it being common...I made it all the way through undergrad and never got into a fight, and it wasn't like I was staying away from the bars. All the people that I ever saw get into fights deserved it. Oh, and it is not ok for somebody to be yelling "FU" at a cop. Cops are authority figures, treat them as such.

 

[cclarkblues]

The racism part of this thread is the part that I find most inteteresting. I am from So Cal and I have been to Missoula twice
during the last six months for football games. Mizzoula is beautiful. But let's be honest. It is not what I would call a "diverse"
city in terms of race. I never saw racism but then again, I am white. This may be a stupid quesion but has anyone asked
any of the black athletes from UM how THEY feel about Missoula and how the blacks are treated there? Having a bunch of middle aged white guys argue and debate this issue is kind of meaningless. Someone has to ask Tru, Gerald and others what their views on the subject are? Missoula, are you ready for the answer?

I think Missoula is more diverse than you might think. In addition to blacks and first Americans we have morons, meatheads, rednecks, shitkickers, jock sniffers, cowboys, farmers, rebels, jerks, the sane and insane, redheads, dickheads, gays, latinos, a-holes and rotundos, liars and lunatics, the short in stature and the short in brains, vegans, meat eaters and booger eaters. And once in a while, some poor bastard that wanders in from California.

 

[EverettGriz]

The racism part of this thread is the part that I find most inteteresting. I am from So Cal and I have been to Missoula twice
during the last six months for football games. Mizzoula is beautiful. But let's be honest. It is not what I would call a "diverse"
city in terms of race. I never saw racism but then again, I am white. This may be a stupid quesion but has anyone asked
any of the black athletes from UM how THEY feel about Missoula and how the blacks are treated there? Having a bunch of middle aged white guys argue and debate this issue is kind of meaningless. Someone has to ask Tru, Gerald and others what their views on the subject are? Missoula, are you ready for the answer?

I think Missoula is more diverse than you might think. In addition to blacks and first Americans we have morons, meatheads, rednecks, shitkickers, jock sniffers, cowboys, farmers, rebels, jerks, the sane and insane, redheads, dickheads, gays, latinos, a-holes and rotundos, liars and lunatics, the short in stature and the short in brains, vegans, meat eaters and booger eaters. And once in a while, some poor bastard that wanders in from California.

You forgot granolas.

 

[grizfan47]

I am just curious for those of you that seem to be second guessing the police officers if you have ever been in a situation where there were 6 (give or take a couple guys) of you to control a large group of alcohol fueled, ramped up, somewhat angry and certainly agitated group of young people. In addition, you had to get all of the combatants to quit fighting and threatening each other long enough to speak with them in an effort to find out who did what. Then the combatants turn on you as well while you are constantly looking over your shoulder to see if the agitated crowd is closing in on you or standing back. Maybe you should call for help but you probably have every available officer already with you. Now you have to decide how to control all of the situation, determine if a crime has been commited and make arrests if they are warranted. If the combatant refuses your efforts to calm, speak and discontinue his agression; you have to decide how to effect the arrest without bringing the mob in on top of you. Is a taser better than getting into a wrestling match that may take two or more of you to control? If you choose to wrestle then who is left to cover your back against others taking their shots at you. If you wrestle you and/or the combatant may end up with injuries that are worse then the taser. God forbid an NBA prospect break his hand while scuffling with the police.

These are all decisions that have to be made in the midst of a very tense situation with very uncooperative combatants and a very thin line with the crowd being bystanders or aggressors. I would suspect that many of the officers are not that much older than the crowd they are trying to control. Wrong decisions are made in the heat of battle so to speak. And some decisions are the exactly right.

The one thing we know is that if you put yourself in the position to be involved in confrontations then you will be accountable for your actions whether you started it or not.

Good points and questions.

However, I would ask additionally, why is it necessary for police officers to charge into a situation like this--without knowing what's going on (which he couldn't have because he had just arrived according to his affidavit)--and start ordering people around, grabbing someone/people, and then making arrests and tasering someone? From reading the affidavits, it doesn't look like anyone was actually fighting or throwing punches. Restraint was already coming from people who were there and presumably knew who they were restraining. I would ask if the officer's actions actually escalated the situation. If this actually occurred, why would the police have to pepper spray the crowd? Did that escalate the situation or help the situation? Why did the crowd even have to dispersed? Why taser a person in this situation? While it looks like the kid wasn't fully cooperating, I don't think a situation like this deserves tasering.

I will try to address some of your questions but I cannot answer them all since I was not there nor have I read the affidavit.
I'm not sure what you mean by "charge into a situation." Clearly they cannot stand back and watch since that leaves way to much time for other actions to occur which they may be liable for since they were present and did not take any action. I'm sure you see my point there. However, if you mean, could they have addressed the combatants and their restrainers to see what happened? Certainly, in the best case scenario that is what they should do. However, if the highly charged combatants would not stand down and listen to reason then the options for solving the situation change. They can be addressed by placing one or more of the combatants (either of whom is not cooling off and cooperating) in a patrol car so that details can be gathered from witnesses. If the combatant continues to yell obscenities and be uncooperative then he has to be removed so he and others can calm down. Again, I was not there and can't second guess if using the taser was appropriate or not. It appears Cherry was not being cooperative. If he was refusing the officers request and escalating the situation then it was probably warranted. The goal is to defuse the situation as quickly as possible so that order can be maintained and facts gathered to see if a crime was committed.

Certainly, some officers can escalate the situation if poor judgment was used but again, I was not there and neither were you. Why did they spray the crowd? I have no idea but if they felt that the crowd was large enough and becoming a threat then that may have been the best course of action. There is a very thin line between bystanders and a threatening mob. Emotions run high and alcohol just adds fuel to the fire. Can that incite the crowd even more? Certainly. But sometimes a very quick decision has to be made for the safety of the officers and others. It is not always the best decision and it is hard to second guess without having been there. I can tell you that being outnumbered by a loud drunk crowd can be very threatening under the right circumstance. Did they need to be dispersed? Sorry to sound like a broken record but I have no idea. If they were deemed any sort of threat then yes. If they were being peaceful and merely watching, then probably not.[/i]

What would have happened if the police had a stood back a bit, making their points verbally from a short distance? I think the situation may have diffused itself.

Huh? I don't even understand that question. Do you mean with a bull horn? Again, you better hope nothing more serious happens while you are appearing to be merely a bystander.[/i]

Another question is what would have happened if the police had not even been there or intervened?

I have no idea.[/i]

What were the police trying to protect? This wasn't a riot. Doesn't sound like anything was being broken. From the affidavits, it doesn't sound like this was even an actual fighting.

They were probably trying to protect all involved from further injury and keep the situation from escalating. Do we know for certain that it would not have turned into a riot had the police not arrived and attempted to defuse the situation? It certainly sounds like a disturbance had occurred even though the actual fight had been stopped. That doesn't mean that an assault had not occurred. Only an investigation would answer that question. Were the officers supposed to just get in their cars and go away at that point. How about if Cherry's hand had been broken but the police didn't bother to ask some questions and identify the participants?

Again, your views/questions are valid, and I'm not trying to minimize them. I'm just asking more questions.

I have tried to answer your questions but they are mostly hypothetical since again...I was not there. I am merely trying to point out that second guessing decisions made during one of these situations is like trying to second guess the last two minutes of an overtime game. The difference is, the police officers decisions can have outcomes that are much more serious. And the behavior of the combatants and their lack of good judgment certainly play a part in how the officers respond and how the outcome of the situation plays out. I hope this has helped.

 

[mtgrizrule]

After looking looking at various newspaper articles and the linked affidavit related to the Cherry charges, and thinking about this subject, I will offer some observations and contrary views.

1. While I wish none of this recent stuff was happening, especially with what some have referred to as "UM athletics being under a microscope", it doesn't surprise me that kids, including college kids and UM athletes, are getting into fights, having loud parties, and driving after drinking. This has happened for years and will likely continue. If it surprises some of you, then I wonder what you and your friends did in college, whether you have ever lived or experienced life, and/or what planet you are from.

2. Looking at the Cherry article and affidavit, it looks like a 34 year guy (I'm just going to guess he was white, but don't know) went after Cherry as Stocks closed. "Jumped" him, according to what was said in the affidavit. When somebody goes after a college kid, especially a black UM athlete, does it surprise any of you that a black athlete and his friends don't like that, especially at the end of an evening of being in the bars? This is a far too frequent occurrence in Missoula. In my view, it reflects the considerable prejudice and racism that lies with a small minority of people in this town. If you don't believe me, ask around the athletic department. Ask Jim O'Day.

3. In the Cherry affidavit, there is no mention of Cherry or DeShields throwing a punch. Lots of talking. I supposed there could have been more or other things.

4. Assuming the officer's affidavit it accurate (and based on my many years of experience as a lawyer, following criminal procedure developments and reading articles, I generally don't believe all of what's in charging affidavits and know that there are often important omissions), Cherry was basically telling the other guy to bring it on, and later pulled away from the cop and gave the cop a few FU's. If true, that's obviously unfortunate, and should not have occurred. However, I don't understand why a cop just coming into the situation (as he admitted in the affidavit) would come running into this type of situation and order Cherry, or any black or white kid, to sit on the curb. How could the cop have known what was going on? Sounds like no punches were being thrown at the time. Unnecessary confrontation can and does escalate situations.

5. Then when the cop has decided to arrest Cherry, Will pulls away and says FU a time or two to the cop. When the cop tries to pull Cherry's arm back to handcuff him, the cop supposedly warns him that he'll be tased if he doesn't cooperate, and then tases him. I guess I just don't believe in tasing in situations like this. Just don't see why tasing, which can seriously hurt people and even kill them, is used so easily. Note that an order guy died after being tased in MT within the last month or so.

7. Interesting that Paoli is representing Cherry and DeShields. Not really a criminal lawyer. Great civil and plaintiffs lawyer. Just won the JJ case in spectacular fashion. Has sued the city and won hundreds of thousands of dollars previously. Hum. The city better have their ducks in order on this one. With phones and video, and often multiple witnesses, it will be interesting to learn more. What if Cherry is physically damaged by this and his professional career is affected? Hum.

8. In the version of the affidavit included with the Missoulian article, the name of the charging officer who gave the affidavit is blacked out. What's with that? Who blacked that out? Two other officers are named in the affidavit. I sure hope this isn't a tase-happy cop. Paoli will come after that one big-time, if it is.

9. If the Missoulian is looking for something to cover other than arrests and citations related to UM athlete fights, loud parties and dui's, perhaps they could look into the significant prejudice and racism that occurs in Missoula, often directed at blacks and native americans. The gang bang and sexual assault thing sure hasn't worked out for the Missoulian. Zero gang bangs. They're lucky that Donaldson bailed them out. Otherwise they would have had zero involving athletes, from what seems to be public and out there.

10. I know this won't happen (and I'm also not really being serious)--and know alot of dumbass posters will come flying out of the woodwork--but another way to deal with these issues is: to do it the old fashion way. Stop pursuing so many of these situations that may not deserve escalation and confrontation, and stop giving them so much attention and publicity. Does a minor fight involving a UM athlete in front of Stocks really deserve more attention in the Missoulian, than the Boston marathon bombing or the death of a former Lady Griz athlete? I know this kind of stuff has become a big deal in recent years at UM, but I'm sorry, I guess I just don't get as worked up about fights, loud parties, etc. as some people. I wish it would all stop, but it probably won't. Maybe UM and Haslam can figure out how to at least reduce it. Does it seem to have gotten worse since Engstrom became the president?

Okay, enought of this. Back to the beach.

P.S. This post is intended to stimulate constructive and intellectual discussion. Ha-ha.

You just had to play the race card, eh Player Rep? I guess it is standard fare these days any time something negative happens to a person of color. I do not subscribe to the mantra of political correctness which pervades this country these days, so I will give you my two cents, based upon facts instead of pathetic blame-placing. Blacks make up 15% of the U.S. population, yet make up over 60% of the federal and state prison population. Is it racist to point this fact out? I am sure that many of you do-righters will jump on me for stating a fact, but facts do not lie.

The same skewed percentages are seen around Grizzly athletes who get arrested. While I am unsure of the exact numbers, there are probably about 20-30 Grizzly football and basketball players on the squads. This means that out of about 100 athletes, only 20-30% of them are black. Yet, significantly more than half of the arrests of Griz athletes are the arrest of these minorities. Is this a coincidence, or does it mirror our society? I guess I am a racist for pointing these facts out. If so, then I don't really give a rip. I will wear the badge proudly. Frankly I am tired of apologists like Player Rep trying to say that the reason these black kids keep getting arrested is due to racism in the Missoula Community. I just do not buy it, and it is another example of a blatant cop-out (no pun intended) which pervades our politically correct society. There, flame away apologists!

Another way of looking at your 15%/60% stat is that it proves, or supports the view that there is, racism--in arresting and convicting.

As for the 50% comment in your last paragraph, i.e. that half of the arrests are of blacks, there's been discussion on the board in the past showing that that stat is absolutely not true. While a number of the latest incidents have involved black players, historically, most of the arrests and incidents are of white players. Why do people like you have to make up stuff, and tell lies?

This is starting to remind me of the many race related discussions I had with friends, when I was in the military. During my time in the Air Force, I was fortunate to meet people of all races, religions, ethnic backgrounds, up bringings, social status, and from all over the world. Being young, and from Montana I had to learn to accept and respect diversity from the 1st day I arrived in basic training. That was the case for everyone in my flight as well.

In my time in the military, I had friends and worked with this melting pot. I gained many friends of African American descent from all over the place. I seen plenty of heated discussions, and fights over the years. Regardless of the diversity and all the factors, most all got pissed at the gangs, criminals, athletes, and celebrities who caused problems and got in trouble with the law. I seen my black friends put other blacks in their place, when someone would be all over them about a crime or stupid decision. They took a lot of pride in their black history, good and bad, just like any ethnic background does. When anyone of their background got in trouble, they took it very personal. I asked a few of them why? Everyone of them told me the same thing, because it is a bad reflection on them, their families, and their race. They had no sympathy for the ones creating the problems. They were not shy about telling them to clean up their act(s). They would tell them if you don't like how society or someone is interpreting you and our race, then clean the hell up, and not give reason for the stereotyping.

Unfortunately, the stats that were brought up are the exact reason why law abiding African Americans have problem and get upset when someone of their ethnic background screws up. Bringing up those stats do not make anyone prejudice to any background, color, race, social status, etc. If someone believes everyone of a certain race are all the same because of the stats, well then that is where prejudice opinions can result.

As for myself, when any GRIZ gets in trouble or makes a dumb decision, it pisses me off. Why? Because I care about how my teams, schools, and states are viewed by society. It is also disappointing when all it would take to avoid most of these situations, is some damn common sense. I don't see why or how common sense is so difficult to use at any age!!!!!

In Will's case, he had no common sense in telling a cop to F.O, or whatever language he used. Keron used no common sense for being underage and frequenting a place with alcohol. Neither showed common sense by simply walking away from the said instigator. I do believe it took a lot for Will to react, and in the heat of the moment he reacted the way he did. He should not have let himself be in that position from the get go, or asked security to address whoever this asshole was. If he had done that, and it was still a problem, then bar management needs to get new security personnel.

In this case, Will and Keron, had better options, and they chose not to use them. That is where they were both wrong. This coming from one of the 1st egrizzers to get on Cherry's bandwagon. With that said, I support them as people, players, and GRIZ. I understand they are young and people make mistakes. I wish them and all GRIZ athletes the best. Is it asking too much for GRIZ athletes to use common sense for now on?

 

[PlayerRep]

I am just curious for those of you that seem to be second guessing the police officers if you have ever been in a situation where there were 6 (give or take a couple guys) of you to control a large group of alcohol fueled, ramped up, somewhat angry and certainly agitated group of young people. In addition, you had to get all of the combatants to quit fighting and threatening each other long enough to speak with them in an effort to find out who did what. Then the combatants turn on you as well while you are constantly looking over your shoulder to see if the agitated crowd is closing in on you or standing back. Maybe you should call for help but you probably have every available officer already with you. Now you have to decide how to control all of the situation, determine if a crime has been commited and make arrests if they are warranted. If the combatant refuses your efforts to calm, speak and discontinue his agression; you have to decide how to effect the arrest without bringing the mob in on top of you. Is a taser better than getting into a wrestling match that may take two or more of you to control? If you choose to wrestle then who is left to cover your back against others taking their shots at you. If you wrestle you and/or the combatant may end up with injuries that are worse then the taser. God forbid an NBA prospect break his hand while scuffling with the police.

These are all decisions that have to be made in the midst of a very tense situation with very uncooperative combatants and a very thin line with the crowd being bystanders or aggressors. I would suspect that many of the officers are not that much older than the crowd they are trying to control. Wrong decisions are made in the heat of battle so to speak. And some decisions are the exactly right.

The one thing we know is that if you put yourself in the position to be involved in confrontations then you will be accountable for your actions whether you started it or not.

Good points and questions.

However, I would ask additionally, why is it necessary for police officers to charge into a situation like this--without knowing what's going on (which he couldn't have because he had just arrived according to his affidavit)--and start ordering people around, grabbing someone/people, and then making arrests and tasering someone? From reading the affidavits, it doesn't look like anyone was actually fighting or throwing punches. Restraint was already coming from people who were there and presumably knew who they were restraining. I would ask if the officer's actions actually escalated the situation. If this actually occurred, why would the police have to pepper spray the crowd? Did that escalate the situation or help the situation? Why did the crowd even have to dispersed? Why taser a person in this situation? While it looks like the kid wasn't fully cooperating, I don't think a situation like this deserves tasering.

I will try to address some of your questions but I cannot answer them all since I was not there nor have I read the affidavit.
I'm not sure what you mean by "charge into a situation." Clearly they cannot stand back and watch since that leaves way to much time for other actions to occur which they may be liable for since they were present and did not take any action. I'm sure you see my point there. However, if you mean, could they have addressed the combatants and their restrainers to see what happened? Certainly, in the best case scenario that is what they should do. However, if the highly charged combatants would not stand down and listen to reason then the options for solving the situation change. They can be addressed by placing one or more of the combatants (either of whom is not cooling off and cooperating) in a patrol car so that details can be gathered from witnesses. If the combatant continues to yell obscenities and be uncooperative then he has to be removed so he and others can calm down. Again, I was not there and can't second guess if using the taser was appropriate or not. It appears Cherry was not being cooperative. If he was refusing the officers request and escalating the situation then it was probably warranted. The goal is to defuse the situation as quickly as possible so that order can be maintained and facts gathered to see if a crime was committed.

Certainly, some officers can escalate the situation if poor judgment was used but again, I was not there and neither were you. Why did they spray the crowd? I have no idea but if they felt that the crowd was large enough and becoming a threat then that may have been the best course of action. There is a very thin line between bystanders and a threatening mob. Emotions run high and alcohol just adds fuel to the fire. Can that incite the crowd even more? Certainly. But sometimes a very quick decision has to be made for the safety of the officers and others. It is not always the best decision and it is hard to second guess without having been there. I can tell you that being outnumbered by a loud drunk crowd can be very threatening under the right circumstance. Did they need to be dispersed? Sorry to sound like a broken record but I have no idea. If they were deemed any sort of threat then yes. If they were being peaceful and merely watching, then probably not.[/i]

What would have happened if the police had a stood back a bit, making their points verbally from a short distance? I think the situation may have diffused itself.

Huh? I don't even understand that question. Do you mean with a bull horn? Again, you better hope nothing more serious happens while you are appearing to be merely a bystander.[/i]

Another question is what would have happened if the police had not even been there or intervened?

I have no idea.[/i]

What were the police trying to protect? This wasn't a riot. Doesn't sound like anything was being broken. From the affidavits, it doesn't sound like this was even an actual fighting.

They were probably trying to protect all involved from further injury and keep the situation from escalating. Do we know for certain that it would not have turned into a riot had the police not arrived and attempted to defuse the situation? It certainly sounds like a disturbance had occurred even though the actual fight had been stopped. That doesn't mean that an assault had not occurred. Only an investigation would answer that question. Were the officers supposed to just get in their cars and go away at that point. How about if Cherry's hand had been broken but the police didn't bother to ask some questions and identify the participants?

Again, your views/questions are valid, and I'm not trying to minimize them. I'm just asking more questions.

I have tried to answer your questions but they are mostly hypothetical since again...I was not there. I am merely trying to point out that second guessing decisions made during one of these situations is like trying to second guess the last two minutes of an overtime game. The difference is, the police officers decisions can have outcomes that are much more serious. And the behavior of the combatants and their lack of good judgment certainly play a part in how the officers respond and how the outcome of the situation plays out. I hope this has helped.

Thanks for responding. I will try to provide some information/thoughts in return.

Here is why I said "charge into the situation". From the affidavit:

"I responded to the area of Stockman's Bar , 1-25 W.
Front St. , to assist Officer Derek Emerson wiLh a
physical disturbance at the location.
2-), -l--arrived- -on scene and - obsenr-e-d-Of f icen Emers-on-
-running-af ter-_a-gr-o-up-of -mal.es-t-o-rlra:lds-Higgins-Av-e
and Front St.
3. ) Officer Nathan Griesse and I made contact with the
maIes. I observed one male (later identified as
William E. Cherry) witfr his shirt of f . I observed
two other males holding Cherry back as Cherry was
trying to get to another male ( identif ied as a
Jason Snyder) . Cherry had his arms spread wide out
in a provoking manner.
4.) I made contact with Cherry and told him to stop and
sit down on the curb. Cherry refused and continued
to shout and try to provoke Snyder."

Police aren't going to be liable for something by not taking immediate action in a situation like this. That's just not correct.

"Highly charged" "combantants". While some police or someone may describe an almost fight that way, I see nothing that would support calling them highly charged combatants. I still say the better alternative would have been to stand back and observe/learn what was occurring. No one was even throwing a punch. Two other males, presumably his friends, were restraining him. It was likely the cop's intervention that caused them to unrestrain him, and it was certainly the cop's grabbing Cherry that caused him to say FO (if indeed that's actually what he said). I think it was the cop who was escalating the situation, and don't believe tasing should be done at the drop of a hat. I also submit that not intervening immediately and grabbing Cherry, might have been the better way to diffuse the situation better and more quickly.

If 2 guys are yelling at each and saying bring it on, what crime is being committed?

There was no "threatening mob". Nothing has indicated that anything was even broken. Again, what crime is being committed by the crowd? Nothing has indicated that the police were being put in a dangerous situation.

Again, I'm only going from limited information, and yes, neither of us were there. So I suppose we're having a theoretical discussion.

Bullhorn or not, I still submit that standing back would probably have been a better alternative.

"Prevent further injury"? There's nothing in the affidavits or newspaper articles to indicate that anyone was injured, or had even been fighting.

Again, thanks for the discussion.

 

[PlayerRep]

hahahahaha do you even read what you post?
Instead of breaking up a fight, cops should "stand back" and "make their points verbally"?
Yeah, cops need to practice being "passive agressive" like the rest of MSLA. That makes perfect sense.

If you look at the affidavits done by the arresting officer, there was no fight being broken up. There was no mention that any fight had even occurred, or that any punch had been thrown.

Let's see you tell us what the police were trying or needing to accomplish.

Apparently for Mr. Cherry to sit down down and shut up as he was told to do while they sorted things out, something most learn in Kindergarten.

Why did the cop pick out the black guy to address and not the white guy? If you think all or even most kindergarten kids have learned how to sit down, shut up and take instructions, then obviously you don't have any kindergarten teachers in the family (like I do).

 

[tnt]

hahahahaha do you even read what you post?
Instead of breaking up a fight, cops should "stand back" and "make their points verbally"?
Yeah, cops need to practice being "passive agressive" like the rest of MSLA. That makes perfect sense.

If you look at the affidavits done by the arresting officer, there was no fight being broken up. There was no mention that any fight had even occurred, or that any punch had been thrown.

Let's see you tell us what the police were trying or needing to accomplish.

Apparently for Mr. Cherry to sit down down and shut up as he was told to do while they sorted things out, something most learn in Kindergarten.

Why did the cop pick out the black guy to address and not the white guy? If you think all or even most kindergarten kids have learned how to sit down, shut up and take instructions, then obviously you don't have any kindergarten teachers in the family (like I do).

They don't always do they? They quickly learn they had better or there will be cosequences. The teacher learns that too or she loses control. Was the white guy being held back by two of his buddies? Or yelling obsenities at the cops, or did he have brains enough to be humble and keep his mouth shut knowing it would go very badly if he didn't.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

After looking looking at various newspaper articles and the linked affidavit related to the Cherry charges, and thinking about this subject, I will offer some observations and contrary views.

1. While I wish none of this recent stuff was happening, especially with what some have referred to as "UM athletics being under a microscope", it doesn't surprise me that kids, including college kids and UM athletes, are getting into fights, having loud parties, and driving after drinking. This has happened for years and will likely continue. If it surprises some of you, then I wonder what you and your friends did in college, whether you have ever lived or experienced life, and/or what planet you are from.

2. Looking at the Cherry article and affidavit, it looks like a 34 year guy (I'm just going to guess he was white, but don't know) went after Cherry as Stocks closed. "Jumped" him, according to what was said in the affidavit. When somebody goes after a college kid, especially a black UM athlete, does it surprise any of you that a black athlete and his friends don't like that, especially at the end of an evening of being in the bars? This is a far too frequent occurrence in Missoula. In my view, it reflects the considerable prejudice and racism that lies with a small minority of people in this town. If you don't believe me, ask around the athletic department. Ask Jim O'Day.

3. In the Cherry affidavit, there is no mention of Cherry or DeShields throwing a punch. Lots of talking. I supposed there could have been more or other things.

4. Assuming the officer's affidavit it accurate (and based on my many years of experience as a lawyer, following criminal procedure developments and reading articles, I generally don't believe all of what's in charging affidavits and know that there are often important omissions), Cherry was basically telling the other guy to bring it on, and later pulled away from the cop and gave the cop a few FU's. If true, that's obviously unfortunate, and should not have occurred. However, I don't understand why a cop just coming into the situation (as he admitted in the affidavit) would come running into this type of situation and order Cherry, or any black or white kid, to sit on the curb. How could the cop have known what was going on? Sounds like no punches were being thrown at the time. Unnecessary confrontation can and does escalate situations.

5. Then when the cop has decided to arrest Cherry, Will pulls away and says FU a time or two to the cop. When the cop tries to pull Cherry's arm back to handcuff him, the cop supposedly warns him that he'll be tased if he doesn't cooperate, and then tases him. I guess I just don't believe in tasing in situations like this. Just don't see why tasing, which can seriously hurt people and even kill them, is used so easily. Note that an order guy died after being tased in MT within the last month or so.

7. Interesting that Paoli is representing Cherry and DeShields. Not really a criminal lawyer. Great civil and plaintiffs lawyer. Just won the JJ case in spectacular fashion. Has sued the city and won hundreds of thousands of dollars previously. Hum. The city better have their ducks in order on this one. With phones and video, and often multiple witnesses, it will be interesting to learn more. What if Cherry is physically damaged by this and his professional career is affected? Hum.

8. In the version of the affidavit included with the Missoulian article, the name of the charging officer who gave the affidavit is blacked out. What's with that? Who blacked that out? Two other officers are named in the affidavit. I sure hope this isn't a tase-happy cop. Paoli will come after that one big-time, if it is.

9. If the Missoulian is looking for something to cover other than arrests and citations related to UM athlete fights, loud parties and dui's, perhaps they could look into the significant prejudice and racism that occurs in Missoula, often directed at blacks and native americans. The gang bang and sexual assault thing sure hasn't worked out for the Missoulian. Zero gang bangs. They're lucky that Donaldson bailed them out. Otherwise they would have had zero involving athletes, from what seems to be public and out there.

10. I know this won't happen (and I'm also not really being serious)--and know alot of dumbass posters will come flying out of the woodwork--but another way to deal with these issues is: to do it the old fashion way. Stop pursuing so many of these situations that may not deserve escalation and confrontation, and stop giving them so much attention and publicity. Does a minor fight involving a UM athlete in front of Stocks really deserve more attention in the Missoulian, than the Boston marathon bombing or the death of a former Lady Griz athlete? I know this kind of stuff has become a big deal in recent years at UM, but I'm sorry, I guess I just don't get as worked up about fights, loud parties, etc. as some people. I wish it would all stop, but it probably won't. Maybe UM and Haslam can figure out how to at least reduce it. Does it seem to have gotten worse since Engstrom became the president?

Okay, enought of this. Back to the beach.

P.S. This post is intended to stimulate constructive and intellectual discussion. Ha-ha.

You just had to play the race card, eh Player Rep? I guess it is standard fare these days any time something negative happens to a person of color. I do not subscribe to the mantra of political correctness which pervades this country these days, so I will give you my two cents, based upon facts instead of pathetic blame-placing. Blacks make up 15% of the U.S. population, yet make up over 60% of the federal and state prison population. Is it racist to point this fact out? I am sure that many of you do-righters will jump on me for stating a fact, but facts do not lie.

The same skewed percentages are seen around Grizzly athletes who get arrested. While I am unsure of the exact numbers, there are probably about 20-30 Grizzly football and basketball players on the squads. This means that out of about 100 athletes, only 20-30% of them are black. Yet, significantly more than half of the arrests of Griz athletes are the arrest of these minorities. Is this a coincidence, or does it mirror our society? I guess I am a racist for pointing these facts out. If so, then I don't really give a rip. I will wear the badge proudly. Frankly I am tired of apologists like Player Rep trying to say that the reason these black kids keep getting arrested is due to racism in the Missoula Community. I just do not buy it, and it is another example of a blatant cop-out (no pun intended) which pervades our politically correct society. There, flame away apologists!

Thanks Growler!

Hey Narly, Tom Metzger called. He says that you left your 18 eylet Doc Martin's, your flight jacket and your red suspenders at the bonfire last weekend. You can come pick them up at his house at any time!

 

[Spanky]

All of this conversation over a fight....amazing. As long as man walks the planet there will be fights, blacks, whites. Racism is alive and well and probably will be to the end of time, but racism doesn't have to be involved in fights..could be a woman, don't like someone looks....whatever. Quit making a big deal over fights at UM as they will still be happening after all of us are gone. A final comment about those that say they never got in a fight during college..no, I guess I won't comment.

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

I really don't like how quickly people throw out the race card or just make the assumption that the other person in the fight had to of been racist. None of you know that. Regardless, when a cop tells you to do something as simple as sitting down and shutting up, you do it. When I was in college in Missoula, I was in a similar situation. I was breaking up a fight and a cop rushed in, pointed a taser at me, and told me to sit on the ground and shut up. That's what I did and I was let go when the situation was dissolved. Nobody was arrested or tased because we listened (and because we knew the cops had a reputation of being taser happy...). You can't let your emotions get away from you in those situations.

Cherry seems to be a good person as does DeShields and I'd be surprised if charges weren't dropped, but you can't say this wasn't their fault at all. Nothing wrong with defending yourself, but when a cop tells you to stop and shut up, you do it if you don't want to be in the police blotter.

 

[Jerry Punch]

And by the way, PR, your boy Jason Washington looks to be going to federal prison for what you considered to be insignificant acts. But I know I would be expecting too much for you to admit error on that as well.

 

[BDizzle]

I really don't like how quickly people throw out the race card or just make the assumption that the other person in the fight had to of been racist. None of you know that. Regardless, when a cop tells you to do something as simple as sitting down and shutting up, you do it. When I was in college in Missoula, I was in a similar situation. I was breaking up a fight and a cop rushed in, pointed a taser at me, and told me to sit on the ground and shut up. That's what I did and I was let go when the situation was dissolved. Nobody was arrested or tased because we listened (and because we knew the cops had a reputation of being taser happy...). You can't let your emotions get away from you in those situations.

Cherry seems to be a good person as does DeShields and I'd be surprised if charges weren't dropped, but you can't say this wasn't their fault at all. Nothing wrong with defending yourself, but when a cop tells you to stop and shut up, you do it if you don't want to be in the police blotter.

So if a white guy calls a black guy the N word, would that make the white guy a racist? I would say either yes or the white guy is just plain f'n stupid. But in this situation the N word was used so I would say race played a part in this fight.

 

[PlayerRep]

I really don't like how quickly people throw out the race card or just make the assumption that the other person in the fight had to of been racist. None of you know that. Regardless, when a cop tells you to do something as simple as sitting down and shutting up, you do it. When I was in college in Missoula, I was in a similar situation. I was breaking up a fight and a cop rushed in, pointed a taser at me, and told me to sit on the ground and shut up. That's what I did and I was let go when the situation was dissolved. Nobody was arrested or tased because we listened (and because we knew the cops had a reputation of being taser happy...). You can't let your emotions get away from you in those situations.

Cherry seems to be a good person as does DeShields and I'd be surprised if charges weren't dropped, but you can't say this wasn't their fault at all. Nothing wrong with defending yourself, but when a cop tells you to stop and shut up, you do it if you don't want to be in the police blotter.

I don't disagree with you. However, you are neither black nor native american and you probably grew up in a smaller town in MT. You didn't grow up in Oakland. You grew up in an area where there is more trust and respect for the police, and where there is not considerable resentment towards the police. You were probably not a high profile hoops player at UM. While you may have been involved in situations in which you or your friends were provoked, you have not been in situations in which random people were saying/yelling racial stuff at you or trying to get a piece of you because you were a high profile athlete. Again, not disagreeing with your post or analysis, but you're making it from your shoes and not the shoes of high profile black athletes who grew up in Oakland and Baltimore, and who now reside in a very white town with plenty of rednecks and guys who think they are tough, especially when they are drinking. Like you, I would have done things different, and believe the guys, or at least Cherry, were wrong in some respects. However, I also believe that it is likely that the police unnecessarily escalated and provoked the situation, and certainly didn't know, or care, that someone had jumped Cherry and been racially insulted to him. Very few people on this board know what it's like to be racially insulted. And it's even more insulting and infuriating when the person of color has achieved more, and is more prominent (for lack of a better word), than the guy slinging the insults.