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Another View on Recent Griz "Incidents"

PlayerRep

Well-known member
After looking looking at various newspaper articles and the linked affidavit related to the Cherry charges, and thinking about this subject, I will offer some observations and contrary views.

1. While I wish none of this recent stuff was happening, especially with what some have referred to as "UM athletics being under a microscope", it doesn't surprise me that kids, including college kids and UM athletes, are getting into fights, having loud parties, and driving after drinking. This has happened for years and will likely continue. If it surprises some of you, then I wonder what you and your friends did in college, whether you have ever lived or experienced life, and/or what planet you are from.

2. Looking at the Cherry article and affidavit, it looks like a 34 year guy (I'm just going to guess he was white, but don't know) went after Cherry as Stocks closed. "Jumped" him, according to what was said in the affidavit. When somebody goes after a college kid, especially a black UM athlete, does it surprise any of you that a black athlete and his friends don't like that, especially at the end of an evening of being in the bars? This is a far too frequent occurrence in Missoula. In my view, it reflects the considerable prejudice and racism that lies with a small minority of people in this town. If you don't believe me, ask around the athletic department. Ask Jim O'Day.

3. In the Cherry affidavit, there is no mention of Cherry or DeShields throwing a punch. Lots of talking. I supposed there could have been more or other things.

4. Assuming the officer's affidavit it accurate (and based on my many years of experience as a lawyer, following criminal procedure developments and reading articles, I generally don't believe all of what's in charging affidavits and know that there are often important omissions), Cherry was basically telling the other guy to bring it on, and later pulled away from the cop and gave the cop a few FU's. If true, that's obviously unfortunate, and should not have occurred. However, I don't understand why a cop just coming into the situation (as he admitted in the affidavit) would come running into this type of situation and order Cherry, or any black or white kid, to sit on the curb. How could the cop have known what was going on? Sounds like no punches were being thrown at the time. Unnecessary confrontation can and does escalate situations.

5. Then when the cop has decided to arrest Cherry, Will pulls away and says FU a time or two to the cop. When the cop tries to pull Cherry's arm back to handcuff him, the cop supposedly warns him that he'll be tased if he doesn't cooperate, and then tases him. I guess I just don't believe in tasing in situations like this. Just don't see why tasing, which can seriously hurt people and even kill them, is used so easily. Note that an order guy died after being tased in MT within the last month or so.

7. Interesting that Paoli is representing Cherry and DeShields. Not really a criminal lawyer. Great civil and plaintiffs lawyer. Just won the JJ case in spectacular fashion. Has sued the city and won hundreds of thousands of dollars previously. Hum. The city better have their ducks in order on this one. With phones and video, and often multiple witnesses, it will be interesting to learn more. What if Cherry is physically damaged by this and his professional career is affected? Hum.

8. In the version of the affidavit included with the Missoulian article, the name of the charging officer who gave the affidavit is blacked out. What's with that? Who blacked that out? Two other officers are named in the affidavit. I sure hope this isn't a tase-happy cop. Paoli will come after that one big-time, if it is.

9. If the Missoulian is looking for something to cover other than arrests and citations related to UM athlete fights, loud parties and dui's, perhaps they could look into the significant prejudice and racism that occurs in Missoula, often directed at blacks and native americans. The gang bang and sexual assault thing sure hasn't worked out for the Missoulian. Zero gang bangs. They're lucky that Donaldson bailed them out. Otherwise they would have had zero involving athletes, from what seems to be public and out there.

10. I know this won't happen (and I'm also not really being serious)--and know alot of dumbass posters will come flying out of the woodwork--but another way to deal with these issues is: to do it the old fashion way. Stop pursuing so many of these situations that may not deserve escalation and confrontation, and stop giving them so much attention and publicity. Does a minor fight involving a UM athlete in front of Stocks really deserve more attention in the Missoulian, than the Boston marathon bombing or the death of a former Lady Griz athlete? I know this kind of stuff has become a big deal in recent years at UM, but I'm sorry, I guess I just don't get as worked up about fights, loud parties, etc. as some people. I wish it would all stop, but it probably won't. Maybe UM and Haslam can figure out how to at least reduce it. Does it seem to have gotten worse since Engstrom became the president?

Okay, enought of this. Back to the beach.

P.S. This post is intended to stimulate constructive and intellectual discussion. Ha-ha.
 
My take....on all the latest crap. The TE coach should have been totally dismissed from his job....and Tinkle's program sure isn't as squeaky clean as many thought...
 
PlayerRep said:
. Does a minor fight involving a UM athlete in front of Stocks really deserve more attention in the Missoulian, than the Boston marathon bombing or the death of a former Lady Griz athlete?.


I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't understand why they need to devote so much time and print on the details of bar fights and initial appearances on petty misdemeanors. They are a pretty common occurrence in MT, and it certainly isn't something new that 20 somethings are just beginning to engage in.
 
Good post. This type of stuff has always taken place at every college in America. Cops need to use their heads, just like a domestic disturbance, emotions are high and they need to tread lightly.
 
PR,
There is some real validity to the comments you posted. More so that most of the jockeys on this board know, or will admit too.

That said, the mere fact that you posted it will prohibit any level of “constructive” discussion. Sorry, but that is fact. You’ve made your bed in that regard, and this discussion will be littered with "jock-sniffer", "apologist", "maroon colored glasses", etc. clichés left and right.

Start over.
 
I was told this by someone who worked at the Missoulian for a very long time. Essentially, the newspaper business is, for lack of a better word, dying. As the industry becomes less profitable, the companies that own these papers reduce employees, salaries and content. So, in an effort to fill the paper on a daily basis with the fewest amount of employees at a the lowest possible salary, they resort to ambulance chasing and police reports, those stories that don't require investigative journalism. Read the police report, call a few people for quotes, write the story, move on to the next report. The Missoulian, according to my friend, is no different. That is part of the reason we are seeing this hypersensitive reporting on these bar scuffles. It's very easy to whip out an article, and it gets people attention.
I would love to see an article on racism in Missoula, how it affects athletes not from around here, and Native American students.
 
Ursus1 said:
My take....on all the latest crap. The TE coach should have been totally dismissed from his job....and Tinkle's program sure isn't as squeaky clean as many thought...

If this is the worst stuff I hear out of Grizzly Basketball, then I am not going to get too worked up over it. People who think that nothing should ever happen in any program are simply dellusional.
 
putter said:
Good post. This type of stuff has always taken place at every college in America. Cops need to use their heads, just like a domestic disturbance, emotions are high and they need to tread lightly.

I really do miss the days when athletes got the benefit of the doubt and the "small stuff" was swept under the rug.
 
Not bad, PR. I wonder how many non-Griz disturbances around town never get reported?

Regarding AD Haslam's article in today's paper....I had to chuckle with the "WISE USE OF ALCOHOL" comment! I alway knew it made me wiser with a little time.
 
CV Griz Fan said:
putter said:
Good post. This type of stuff has always taken place at every college in America. Cops need to use their heads, just like a domestic disturbance, emotions are high and they need to tread lightly.

I really do miss the days when athletes got the benefit of the doubt and the "small stuff" was swept under the rug.
Your sarcasm is rather transparent. If this had not been two UM athletes, do you think this would have been front page news? Yes they should be held to a higher standard than a non-scholarship student, but even if this had been an academic scholar, should it/would it make the front page? The answer sure seems obvious to me. The Missoulian is picking an easy target to promote their prejudice. It is pretty hard to combat prejudice when even the newspaper practices it.
 
PR lost me at "I'm guessing he was white".

There isn't one person (especially in Msla) that would jump a guy and beat his ass ONLY because he's black. Not fu*king one person.

Therefore when Cherry is running his mouth (I'm guessing because he's black) and pissing off some guy with his words.....being a man you have to expect to have some punches thrown your way. Either that or STFU.



Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
Like everyone I wish all athletes wouldn’t get involved in any of these type incidents (dui, fights, arguments with police, etc.) though no doubt some of these issues will happen again. I don’t see how anyone can not see that these events get far more exposure in the media than in prior years. This will only get worse as it’s now a top of mind story … in Montana.

Yesterday, I had a conversation about incidents like these with a friend of mine. He had played football for the GRIZ in the very early sixties. Asked him what he remembered that involved fights during his days in Missoula. He said players in bar fights were pretty much a weekly occurrence. He was personally involved in many fights and can remember three fights that also caused extensive damage to the establishments. Example … in one incident, he and four other football players had invited two GRIZ basketball players to join them for drinks. The basketball players were black and very reluctant to go along. They were both from Louisiana. In the end, they decided to go along. Anyway, as soon as they all walked into the bar the owner threw racial slurs at the two black athletes and told them to get the hell out. This resulted in all the football players tearing up the establishment. A few days later, the athletic department got a bill for $3700 from the owner. As far as my friend can remember, this was never a news story.
 
ALPHAGRIZ1 said:
PR lost me at "I'm guessing he was white".

There isn't one person (especially in Msla) that would jump a guy and beat his ass ONLY because he's black. Not fu*king one person.

Therefore when Cherry is running his mouth (I'm guessing because he's black) and pissing off some guy with his words.....being a man you have to expect to have some punches thrown your way. Either that or STFU.



Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Ya... same ol same ol for PR. Blah blah blah. The # or arrests of players and others related to Grizzly athletics over the past few years is STAGGERING. Way, way higher than probably any other college in the country. Yet you keep trying to explaing all these incidents away, one by one.

The idea that the Missoula community is racist and everyone including the cops are "out to get" the black folk... is downright stupid. If there is ANY truth to that at all, it's due to the fact that black players that have been brought into the program in the past few years have absolutely acted like thugs. I know for a fact, 100% proof positive there have been multiple black football players seen downtown flashing pistols and acting like thugs. My buddy, ex griz player, has seen it happen.
 
druhag said:
I was told this by someone who worked at the Missoulian for a very long time. Essentially, the newspaper business is, for lack of a better word, dying. As the industry becomes less profitable, the companies that own these papers reduce employees, salaries and content. So, in an effort to fill the paper on a daily basis with the fewest amount of employees at a the lowest possible salary, they resort to ambulance chasing and police reports, those stories that don't require investigative journalism. Read the police report, call a few people for quotes, write the story, move on to the next report. The Missoulian, according to my friend, is no different. That is part of the reason we are seeing this hypersensitive reporting on these bar scuffles. It's very easy to whip out an article, and it gets people attention.
I would love to see an article on racism in Missoula, how it affects athletes not from around here, and Native American students.

You just need to look at the stock price of Lee Enterprises, the parent company. In 2004 it $49 a share, today it is at $1.40 a share.
 
this isn't a big deal and very few are trying to make it into one, but p.r. had to come up with his usual b.s. and now we got a thread sure to go on for days. it is what it is. players making bad decisions and getting trouble. i like what haslem said in the missoulian today. "you can't just pretend its not happening."
 
Ursus1 said:
My take....on all the latest crap. The TE coach should have been totally dismissed from his job....and Tinkle's program sure isn't as squeaky clean as many thought...

Agreed on the TE coach, but what about a random bar altercation says anything about the state of the basketball team? If it says anything at all, its that college sports teams are populated by kids that do the same things most college kids do, for better or worse. Shocker! You're WAY off base here saying this is any sort of revelation on the state of Tinkle's program.
 
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