2 Deep

[Wolf777]

It’s funny as I was writing it I thought there’s no way in hell they throw it over 10 times a game, even if we went to cover 0, like Ohio State did against Michigan last year. Well they do have two route tree combinations East of the divide, the first is a 50/50 lob to the sideline on an out route, which is 90% of their passing game and the second is a 50/50 lob to the center of the field if your down and desperate in the second half.

I have to believe bozeman will have spent a great deal of time working on a more robust passing strategy during the spring and summer, in conjunction with their recruiting and getting back to a running game that isn't predominantly plus one because of their troubles keeping everyone healthy. They managed to survive injuries to both guys, but I'm not sure the horseshoe up their asses are going to hold this season. It will be interesting to see what they trot out.

I only play a football analyst here, but my thought is the way you beat them is to get off blocks and get the ball carriers down. Last season, not so much, the season prior in Missoula, the Griz were unblockable against a veteran offensive line. I think that's as much attitude as technique. Bozeman isn't going to out-physical anyone, but they are exceptional at getting to their spots and walling off defenders.

At no point did I say we would be running cover 0 every single play or even ten times nor that OSU did it over 10 times. I pointed out that it was utilized enough for a team to take advantage as Michigan did for several (3+ over 70
Yards) big plays. If you look at the initial posts they were pretty tongue in cheek. I simply implied that if we did throw Cover 0 at MSU that they still would not take the opportunity and pass the ball. The difference is a team like Michigan has the athletes and coaches that will recognize and take advantage. The bobcat coaches and athletes are not built as such. There is a reason they went to a +1 running game with Mellott and Chambers after not having a quality true qb for a decade. It is also a reason why they have struggled mightily against MVFC teams for the past 5-6 years.

As for your assessment on the difference between 2021 and 2022 I wholly agree. You could throw 2019 in there as well. Same story. Poor gap coverage and far too often our players got stuck on blocks or in the wash allowing numbers to shift to an advantage to the offense. Attitude is a big part of that and one weakness I saw with our previous DC’s utilization of the 3-3-5. It was always agressive on passing downs, but against run heavy teams we always tried to guess with run blitzes instead of using our front like a battering ram to knock extra pullers and blockers off their route and bouncing the play to the defenses strengths. We were too reactionary in both 2022 and 2019.

 

[Missoula223]

I have to believe bozeman will have spent a great deal of time working on a more robust passing strategy during the spring and summer, in conjunction with their recruiting and getting back to a running game that isn't predominantly plus one because of their troubles keeping everyone healthy. They managed to survive injuries to both guys, but I'm not sure the horseshoe up their asses are going to hold this season. It will be interesting to see what they trot out.

I only play a football analyst here, but my thought is the way you beat them is to get off blocks and get the ball carriers down. Last season, not so much, the season prior in Missoula, the Griz were unblockable against a veteran offensive line. I think that's as much attitude as technique. Bozeman isn't going to out-physical anyone, but they are exceptional at getting to their spots and walling off defenders.

At no point did I say we would be running cover 0 every single play or even ten times nor that OSU did it over 10 times. I pointed out that it was utilized enough for a team to take advantage as Michigan did for several (3+ over 70
Yards) big plays. If you look at the initial posts they were pretty tongue in cheek. I simply implied that if we did throw Cover 0 at MSU that they still would not take the opportunity and pass the ball. The difference is a team like Michigan has the athletes and coaches that will recognize and take advantage. The bobcat coaches and athletes are not built as such. There is a reason they went to a +1 running game with Mellott and Chambers after not having a quality true qb for a decade. It is also a reason why they have struggled mightily against MVFC teams for the past 5-6 years.

As for your assessment on the difference between 2021 and 2022 I wholly agree. You could throw 2019 in there as well. Same story. Poor gap coverage and far too often our players got stuck on blocks or in the wash allowing numbers to shift to an advantage to the offense. Attitude is a big part of that and one weakness I saw with our previous DC’s utilization of the 3-3-5. It was always agressive on passing downs, but against run heavy teams we always tried to guess with run blitzes instead of using our front like a battering ram to knock extra pullers and blockers off their route and bouncing the play to the defenses strengths. We were too reactionary in both 2022 and 2019.

Yeah wasn’t trying to start anything. Just a personal deal I’ve had a few buddies try and tell me that Ohio state played a bunch of 0 and their DC should be canned . So couldn’t help myself but mention that they don’t play a bunch of 0.

I’ll be interested to see how Bradford pressures compared to Baer. I don’t know how much the defensive staff game planned under Baer as opposed to “doing what they do”. Not that one is better than the other, but definitely different.

 

[bgbigdog]

I have to believe bozeman will have spent a great deal of time working on a more robust passing strategy during the spring and summer, in conjunction with their recruiting and getting back to a running game that isn't predominantly plus one because of their troubles keeping everyone healthy. They managed to survive injuries to both guys, but I'm not sure the horseshoe up their asses are going to hold this season. It will be interesting to see what they trot out.

I only play a football analyst here, but my thought is the way you beat them is to get off blocks and get the ball carriers down. Last season, not so much, the season prior in Missoula, the Griz were unblockable against a veteran offensive line. I think that's as much attitude as technique. Bozeman isn't going to out-physical anyone, but they are exceptional at getting to their spots and walling off defenders.

At no point did I say we would be running cover 0 every single play or even ten times nor that OSU did it over 10 times. I pointed out that it was utilized enough for a team to take advantage as Michigan did for several (3+ over 70
Yards) big plays. If you look at the initial posts they were pretty tongue in cheek. I simply implied that if we did throw Cover 0 at MSU that they still would not take the opportunity and pass the ball. The difference is a team like Michigan has the athletes and coaches that will recognize and take advantage. The bobcat coaches and athletes are not built as such. There is a reason they went to a +1 running game with Mellott and Chambers after not having a quality true qb for a decade. It is also a reason why they have struggled mightily against MVFC teams for the past 5-6 years.

As for your assessment on the difference between 2021 and 2022 I wholly agree. You could throw 2019 in there as well. Same story. Poor gap coverage and far too often our players got stuck on blocks or in the wash allowing numbers to shift to an advantage to the offense. Attitude is a big part of that and one weakness I saw with our previous DC’s utilization of the 3-3-5. It was always agressive on passing downs, but against run heavy teams we always tried to guess with run blitzes instead of using our front like a battering ram to knock extra pullers and blockers off their route and bouncing the play to the defenses strengths. We were too reactionary in both 2022 and 2019.

Sorry for the confusion. I was responding to what I thought was a conversation around bozeman looking to actually have a passing game strategy beyond your description, which is exactly what we saw, nothing to do with coverages, of which I am only conversant. Amazingly, it worked an astounding number of times, like the game with SHSU in the playoffs and NAU last season.

From my vantage point, there was another reason they had trouble getting off blocks that day. They came out flat. In 21, they were on fire until they turned the scoreboard off. Unblockable against a veteran line. I'm not sure how that works, particularly when you have everything to play for, but that's what I saw. Teams do come out flat, unfortunately it was that Saturday in November, and the first half of the SEMO game.

Coverage X's and O's aside, the reality is that the defense was left out on the field far too long last season, including the forty minutes in bozeman. My contention this season is that even without three all-Americans, the defense will be better with the fresh perspective and if the offense comes to play - meaning significantly more productive in terms of points. You beat the heavyweights in this conference and beyond by keeping their offenses on the sidelines as long as possible. Three and-outs and unsustained drives, coupled with turnovers, will get them a sixth-place finish again.

 

[uofmman1122]

Serious question (not trolling):

Are fans concerned that no one definitively claimed the QB1 job in camp?

I'm not concerned. I actually like it. It shows that McDowell has caught on and caught up (and likely will still learn more of the O), and that the Griz have 2 good qb's.

Brint think McDowell will get first snap; I think Vidlak will get first snap. I assume neither one of us is doing anything other than guessing.

Yeah, I think it honestly says a lot more about how much better McDowell has showed than anything negative about Vidlak.

 

[Wolf777]

At no point did I say we would be running cover 0 every single play or even ten times nor that OSU did it over 10 times. I pointed out that it was utilized enough for a team to take advantage as Michigan did for several (3+ over 70
Yards) big plays. If you look at the initial posts they were pretty tongue in cheek. I simply implied that if we did throw Cover 0 at MSU that they still would not take the opportunity and pass the ball. The difference is a team like Michigan has the athletes and coaches that will recognize and take advantage. The bobcat coaches and athletes are not built as such. There is a reason they went to a +1 running game with Mellott and Chambers after not having a quality true qb for a decade. It is also a reason why they have struggled mightily against MVFC teams for the past 5-6 years.

As for your assessment on the difference between 2021 and 2022 I wholly agree. You could throw 2019 in there as well. Same story. Poor gap coverage and far too often our players got stuck on blocks or in the wash allowing numbers to shift to an advantage to the offense. Attitude is a big part of that and one weakness I saw with our previous DC’s utilization of the 3-3-5. It was always agressive on passing downs, but against run heavy teams we always tried to guess with run blitzes instead of using our front like a battering ram to knock extra pullers and blockers off their route and bouncing the play to the defenses strengths. We were too reactionary in both 2022 and 2019.

Sorry for the confusion. I was responding to what I thought was a conversation around bozeman looking to actually have a passing game strategy beyond your description, which is exactly what we saw, nothing to do with coverages, of which I am only conversant. Amazingly, it worked an astounding number of times, like the game with SHSU in the playoffs and NAU last season.

From my vantage point, there was another reason they had trouble getting off blocks that day. They came out flat. In 21, they were on fire until they turned the scoreboard off. Unblockable against a veteran line. I'm not sure how that works, particularly when you have everything to play for, but that's what I saw. Teams do come out flat, unfortunately it was that Saturday in November, and the first half of the SEMO game.

Coverage X's and O's aside, the reality is that the defense was left out on the field far too long last season, including the forty minutes in bozeman. My contention this season is that even without three all-Americans, the defense will be better with the fresh perspective and if the offense comes to play - meaning significantly more productive in terms of points. You beat the heavyweights in this conference and beyond by keeping their offenses on the sidelines as long as possible. Three and-outs and unsustained drives, coupled with turnovers, will get them a sixth-place finish again.

Seems like we had a very unbalanced team the last couple of years for a variety of reasons. In 2021 it was injuries in the backfield and we became one dimensional leading to leaning on the defense and special teams. Last year it was lack of qb play down the stretch leading to leaning on defense and special teams to make the big play.

I really hope what we see this year is a more balanced team. Not too heavy in one area, just good across the board. I do hope that the team chemistry continues to build and we have some continuity on the offensive side of the ball which we have been lacking for the last couple of years. It would really help if Sam elevates himself and takes the qb race by the balls so that we have a multi year starter. I also think that it will help team chemistry not having a coaches kid as the leader of the defense. Just eliminating those dynamics will allow this entire team to start to be player led where nobody is above reproach.

 

[mthoopsfan]

At least 10 of the two-deep (including kickers/punter) are first year transfers. At least, 6 more are earlier transfers. So, that's at least 16 transfers of the 47 players on the current two-deep. (Only 1 punter on two-deep). I did this from memory, so maybe there are more.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Sorry for the confusion. I was responding to what I thought was a conversation around bozeman looking to actually have a passing game strategy beyond your description, which is exactly what we saw, nothing to do with coverages, of which I am only conversant. Amazingly, it worked an astounding number of times, like the game with SHSU in the playoffs and NAU last season.

From my vantage point, there was another reason they had trouble getting off blocks that day. They came out flat. In 21, they were on fire until they turned the scoreboard off. Unblockable against a veteran line. I'm not sure how that works, particularly when you have everything to play for, but that's what I saw. Teams do come out flat, unfortunately it was that Saturday in November, and the first half of the SEMO game.

Coverage X's and O's aside, the reality is that the defense was left out on the field far too long last season, including the forty minutes in bozeman. My contention this season is that even without three all-Americans, the defense will be better with the fresh perspective and if the offense comes to play - meaning significantly more productive in terms of points. You beat the heavyweights in this conference and beyond by keeping their offenses on the sidelines as long as possible. Three and-outs and unsustained drives, coupled with turnovers, will get them a sixth-place finish again.

Seems like we had a very unbalanced team the last couple of years for a variety of reasons. In 2021 it was injuries in the backfield and we became one dimensional leading to leaning on the defense and special teams. Last year it was lack of qb play down the stretch leading to leaning on defense and special teams to make the big play.

I really hope what we see this year is a more balanced team. Not too heavy in one area, just good across the board. I do hope that the team chemistry continues to build and we have some continuity on the offensive side of the ball which we have been lacking for the last couple of years. It would really help if Sam elevates himself and takes the qb race by the balls so that we have a multi year starter. I also think that it will help team chemistry not having a coaches kid as the leader of the defense. Just eliminating those dynamics will allow this entire team to start to be player led where nobody is above reproach.

I see what you are saying, but I wouldn't use the term not "balanced". We had injuries that threw off what the team could do well. Small point.

I believe the chemistry has been very good in the past several years. I'm not sure what you mean by lacking continuity.

I don't believe Robby caused any bad chemistry. I believe he was was well-liked and a leader.

I'm not sure what a player-led team is.

 

[Wolf777]

I see what you are saying, but I wouldn't use the term not "balanced". We had injuries that threw off what the team could do well. Small point.

I believe the chemistry has been very good in the past several years. I'm not sure what you mean by lacking continuity.

I don't believe Robby caused any bad chemistry. I believe he was was well-liked and a leader.

I'm not sure what a player-led team is.

We have been a very defensive heavy team the last couple of years, not purely due to injury. Injuries had a huge effect the last two seasons. But in season four you shouldn’t be 1 qb deep with 3 all Americans on the defensive side of the ball. 2021 was just a rash of injuries in the RB room that started in camp. Bobby has consistently worked to fill in gaps and make adjustments. He had to turn an entire program and roster around and got screwed with Covid right in the middle and the seventh year eligibility has really thrown things out of wack. There is still Stitt recruits this year. Insane to think about.

I believe the chemistry was fine prior to last year. But, it was very apparent when you get former players speaking out after the season saying things that couldn’t be said in the locker room or to the staff that there is a reason they felt that way. Perceived or legit, it doesn’t matter. Without that element there is a big dynamic that no longer has to be contended with. The chemistry issue wasn’t purely on the defensive side of the ball. I believe last years team lost some faith in the offensive coaching and frustrations boiled over. Again a huge reason the offensive side of the ball has been shuffled or reassigned to off field roles. Again being close to the sideline and hearing players in various games there was definitely a lot of frustration and consternation. The players that didn’t feel like they were getting a fair shake or didn’t have the mentality we need around here made the easy decision and hit the portal.

Robby is a hell of a player, and I guarantee we are going to miss his production. I do know that Bobby has never brought other linebackers over to the sideline at every break and every chance like he did with Robby. Part of that has to do with making Robby the leader of the defense and part of that has to do with his future aspirations as a coach, and part of that has to do with him being his son. I don’t blame anyone for this, just something that was obvious. Most defenses, even a 3-3-5 are not led by their safety’s but by their linebackers.

If you don’t know what a player led team or program is with your vast football experience, I can’t help you.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I see what you are saying, but I wouldn't use the term not "balanced". We had injuries that threw off what the team could do well. Small point.

I believe the chemistry has been very good in the past several years. I'm not sure what you mean by lacking continuity.

I don't believe Robby caused any bad chemistry. I believe he was was well-liked and a leader.

I'm not sure what a player-led team is.

We have been a very defensive heavy team the last couple of years, not purely due to injury. Injuries had a huge effect the last two seasons. But in season four you shouldn’t be 1 qb deep with 3 all Americans on the defensive side of the ball. 2021 was just a rash of injuries in the RB room that started in camp. Bobby has consistently worked to fill in gaps and make adjustments. He had to turn an entire program and roster around and got screwed with Covid right in the middle and the seventh year eligibility has really thrown things out of wack. There is still Stitt recruits this year. Insane to think about.

I believe the chemistry was fine prior to last year. But, it was very apparent when you get former players speaking out after the season saying things that couldn’t be said in the locker room or to the staff that there is a reason they felt that way. Perceived or legit, it doesn’t matter. Without that element there is a big dynamic that no longer has to be contended with. The chemistry issue wasn’t purely on the defensive side of the ball. I believe last years team lost some faith in the offensive coaching and frustrations boiled over. Again a huge reason the offensive side of the ball has been shuffled or reassigned to off field roles. Again being close to the sideline and hearing players in various games there was definitely a lot of frustration and consternation. The players that didn’t feel like they were getting a fair shake or didn’t have the mentality we need around here made the easy decision and hit the portal.

Robby is a hell of a player, and I guarantee we are going to miss his production. I do know that Bobby has never brought other linebackers over to the sideline at every break and every chance like he did with Robby. Part of that has to do with making Robby the leader of the defense and part of that has to do with his future aspirations as a coach, and part of that has to do with him being his son. I don’t blame anyone for this, just something that was obvious. Most defenses, even a 3-3-5 are not led by their safety’s but by their linebackers.

If you don’t know what a player led team or program is with your vast football experience, I can’t help you.

I don’t agree with you about Robby-caused chemistry issues. I know multiple defensive starters and talked to them last year about Robby. All liked him and said he was good player and leader. One tweet by a former player about tackles doesn’t mean there is a chemistry problem. To me, it says more about the former player.

I have seen Hauck talk to multiples players when they come off the field. It is not true that Hauck talked to Robby consistently at breaks.

You are trying to create issues that didn’t and don’t exist.

Brown was a good backup in 2021. Why would the coaches think he wouldn’t be as good in 2022. Why wouldn’t you want 3 all-Americans in the defense?