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Some Ask a Taboo Question: Is America Overreacting to Coronavirus?

PlayerRep

Well-known member
Here's a NY Times article from today. The sports news is obviously limited. I tried to cull out some paras to shorten the read. I have no dog in the fight. I am not going to criticize at this point. It's obviously a complex and important situation. Can we keep this away from a political discussion. Everything below are qotes from the article.

With “social distancing” now widely adopted nationwide, a small group of contrarians urge a more careful weighing of the harm as well as the benefits of such policies.

Calculating the economic costs of curtailing social interaction compared with the lives saved, he agreed, might yield a useful metric for policymakers.

No one wants to be seen as prioritizing profit or, say, youth soccer over saving lives. But in recent days, a group of contrarian political leaders, ethicists and ordinary Americans have bridled at what they saw as a tendency to dismiss the complex trade-offs that the measures collectively known as “social distancing” entail.

Besides the financial ramifications of such policies, their concerns touch on how society’s most marginalized groups may fare and on the effect of government-enforced curfews on democratic ideals.

Some college students who were abruptly ushered off campus last week complain that they are more likely to infect higher-risk older adults at home than they were at college. Among the throngs who have been ordered to self-quarantine, some people question the purpose of isolating themselves if the virus is already circulating widely in their communities. Certain parents balk at the pressure from friends to withdraw their children from schools that are still open, or at what they see as group-think that has prompted the cancellation of events that are still weeks or months away.
And how do you weigh the risk of an unknown number of deaths against the possibility that several hundred thousand students who depend on free lunch at school will go hungry? Or against other lives that may be lost in an economic contraction born of social isolation?

About 45 million Americans have been infected by the flu this season, which typically peaks in February, and about 40,000 have died.

“The fear is far worse than the virus,’’ tweeted Tim Draper, a venture capitalist. “The governments have it wrong. Stay open for business.’’
But even the many experts who agree on social distancing as an effective remedy worry about some of the fallout. There are civil liberties concerns surrounding quarantines. There is economic hardship for hourly wage workers. Few have thought through how sick people staying in their homes would be cared for.
Until he reversed course on Sunday under mounting pressure, Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York City had suggested that there was a lack of evidence that closing the nation’s largest school district would significantly slow the virus’s spread.

What such a closure would do, he said before reversing himself, would be to force parents to stay home, including those who work in the hospitals that are expected to fill with coronavirus patients.

But Dr. Campbell said he had argued for Davidson to remain open, based on the relatively low risk the virus poses to college-age students, and the virtue of classes like his, which cannot be taught online.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/coronavirus-hype-overreaction-social-distancing.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
 
Here's another article/opinion. The guy asks some good questions. It's from Fox, so I assume the guy is conservative. It's not a political article, tho.

"Hilton challenges Fauci, health officials over this coronavirus precaution: 'It doesn't add up'"

https://www.foxnews.com/media/steve-hilton-dr-fauci-coronavirus-school-closures
 
I think something bigger behind the scenes is going on. Ya, I'm kind of a conspiracy theorist.

Defender 2020 is still a go right now. Biggest military exercise in 25 years. About 20,000 US troops deployed during this corona virus when everything is locked down?
 
Another NY Times article:

"As Coronavirus Deepens Inequality, Inequality Worsens Its Spread

The pandemic is widening social and economic divisions that also make the virus deadlier, a self-reinforcing cycle that experts warn could have consequences for years to come."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/world/europe/coronavirus-inequality.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
 
I get it's a balancing act but when government for any reason starts limiting freedom of association or movement, we should all be worried.
 
Agreed. When they first started the 'no more that groups of 250,' I thought of any diictatorial regime from around the world, left of right, in the recent past or longer.
 
Probably any discussion about this should be in the context of the global response, rather than just the US response. It is helpful to realize and keep in mind these restrictions are being placed on people around the globe so this is not an American issue, or a US political issue or one prone to conspiracy theories. If we focus only on the US response we end up with wild conspiracy theories and crackpot political theories. This is a global response to a global pandemic that doesn't give a damn about national borders or political parties. I think there is absolutely legitimate ground for discussion about the proper response level. I also strongly believe that if we are at all successful in flattening the curve we will all look back and feel like we overreacted, which would be a great thing.
 
Cliff on Cheers answered the question much more elegantly than I can, but to reference an old proverb about the wolf keeping the buffalo herd strong to keep the wolf pack strong......
Political and religious references aside, we haven't developed hundreds of thousands of years of immunity to bacteria and viruses to cower in fear of a new player on the block. We will emerge much stronger and probably much younger because of the selection process. Do I like it, being as I'm one of the 70+ years old member of the population-no... Does a planet with 7+billion people using resources unsustainably survive unchanged? Again-no.
Common sense is not so common anymore. And in response to the overreacting..... I think we are overreacting.
 
Glendivegriz said:
I get it's a balancing act but when government for any reason starts limiting freedom of association or movement, we should all be worried.

NY Times article:

"For Some Buyers With Virus Fears, the Priority Isn’t Toilet Paper. It’s Guns.

Gun shops and ammunition dealers say they’ve seen a surge in purchases, particularly from first-time buyers."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/coronavirus-gun-buyers.html
 
Do I think we are over-reacting? Absolutely. Do my 80 year old relatives? No, and they are scared. I have to keep reminding myself of that. I am pretty sure I will be fine even if I get it. However, I sure as hell don't want to pass it on to anyone like that.

That is what people need to keep in mind. Most of us will be fine. But those who aren't as healthy may not be fine.
 
To Track Coronavirus, Israel Moves to Tap Secret Trove of Cellphone Data

The information, intended for use in counterterrorism, would help identify people who have crossed paths with known patients.

JERUSALEM — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel has authorized the country’s internal security agency to tap into a vast and previously undisclosed trove of cellphone data to retrace the movements of people who have contracted the coronavirus and identify others who should be quarantined because their paths crossed.

The unprecedented move to use data secretly gathered to combat terrorism for public health efforts was authorized on Sunday by Mr. Netanyahu’s holdover cabinet. It must still be approved by Parliament’s Secret Services Subcommittee."

https://egriz.com/grizboard/posting.php?f=1&mode=reply&t=85162&sid=0c2d5b238ed1052927db39cecacaaec1
 
PlayerRep said:
Glendivegriz said:
I get it's a balancing act but when government for any reason starts limiting freedom of association or movement, we should all be worried.

NY Times article:

"For Some Buyers With Virus Fears, the Priority Isn’t Toilet Paper. It’s Guns.

Gun shops and ammunition dealers say they’ve seen a surge in purchases, particularly from first-time buyers."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/coronavirus-gun-buyers.html

A garage full of liquor and ammo will take you a lot farther than a garage full of TP.
 
2 week shutdown is pretty useless. To achieve what they claim, the world needs to shutdown until the vaccine is available in 2021.
 
This is one of the best articles on the issue I have read.

https://newcriterion.com/blogs/dispatch/compared-to-what
 
The answer is both yes and no. Americans are greatly overestimating their personal risk of the virus.

But the actions implemented to slow the spread of the disease is far from an overreaction. And extremely clear data from China prove it.

These steps will in no way stop the spread of the virus, but they're not intended to. They are intended to greatly slow the spread. Look at the daily trend lines for new cases in China. After they implemented their draconian policies, new cases dropped from 3,000 a day to less than 100. That's what our policies are intended to do. And if we fail, and a month from now that 3,000 new cases a day number has jumped to 30,000, we'll absolutely overwhelm our healthcare infrastructure.
 
PlayerRep said:
Here's another article/opinion. The guy asks some good questions. It's from Fox, so I assume the guy is conservative. It's not a political article, tho.

"Hilton challenges Fauci, health officials over this coronavirus precaution: 'It doesn't add up'"

https://www.foxnews.com/media/steve-hilton-dr-fauci-coronavirus-school-closures
Brit Steve Hilton is a libertarian. Juan Williams and Judge Napolitano are with Fox; they certainly are not conservatives.
 
by Yukon » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:50 am

I think something bigger behind the scenes is going on. Ya, I'm kind of a conspiracy theorist.

Defender 2020 is still a go right now. Biggest military exercise in 25 years. About 20,000 US troops deployed during this corona virus when everything is locked down?

Another conspiracy theory debunked:
https://www.stripes.com/news/coronavirus-fears-force-pentagon-to-curtail-large-defender-europe-20-exercise-1.622572

I wish they would just stop but I guess they never will
 
ordigger said:
2 week shutdown is pretty useless. To achieve what they claim, the world needs to shutdown until the vaccine is available in 2021.

The shutdown isn’t necessarily aimed at preventing infections (although it is for vulnerable populations). It’s aim is to slow the rate of community infection so that hospitals aren’t overwhelmed. It’s about flattening and lengthening the curve, not eliminating it, so in that respect governments believe their actions are doing just that (as Everett described above).
 
firmgriz said:
ordigger said:
2 week shutdown is pretty useless. To achieve what they claim, the world needs to shutdown until the vaccine is available in 2021.

The shutdown isn’t necessarily aimed at preventing infections (although it is for vulnerable populations). It’s aim is to slow the rate of community infection so that hospitals aren’t overwhelmed. It’s about flattening and lengthening the curve, not eliminating it, so in that respect governments believe their actions are doing just that.

Agree completely, as I noted above. China's numbers prove this is an effective method.
 
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