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Ivies being sued to force athletic scholarships

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mthoopsfan

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/ivy-leagues-agreement-to-ban-athletic-scholarships-is-illegal-lawsuit-says-e1e7c29c?page=1

"Ivy League’s Agreement to Ban Athletic Scholarships Is Illegal, Lawsuit Says

Suit alleges Ivies engage in price-fixing by not awarding financial aid like other Division I schools do"

"Will Ivy League Schools Be Forced to Offer Athletic Scholarships?"

"Earlier this week attorneys representing two Brown University basketball players filed a class action lawsuit in United States District Court for the District of Connecticut accusing the school and the seven other members of the Ivy League of violating federal antitrust law by agreeing to not offer athletic scholarships to students. All eight Ivy League schools compete in the NCAA’s Division 1, which includes more than 350 colleges and universities that enroll top athletes from around the world. Most other Division 1 schools, including premier academic institutions like Stanford and Duke, offer athletic scholarships.

According to the lawsuit, “The Ivy League Agreement has direct anticompetitive effects, raising the net price of education that Ivy League Athletes pay and suppressing compensation for the athletic services they provide to the University Defendants.”

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ivy-league-schools-forced-offer-200500791.html
 
Haven’t these kids already signed up knowing that they don’t receive athletic scholarships at the ivies? I’m pretty sure they weren’t misled into playing there. You go to an ivy for the education and sports is on the side.
 
Is someone holding a gun to their head to go to an Ivy League school?

This might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
 
AZGrizFan said:
Is someone holding a gun to their head to go to an Ivy League school?

This might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
Click to expand...

The Ivies offer scholarships for excellence in other activities e.g., "The Music Lesson Subsidy Program provides scholarship support to full-time Harvard undergraduates. Recipients are selected on the basis of financial need and demonstrated musical ability and/or potential."

My guess is that this is about collusion between the schools. Individual schools get to run their programs as they wish but the lawsuit is about the league colluding.

They have tried this before with the NCAA and although they may have lost the suit, they may have raised awareness enough that legislatures got involved and now we have NIL $ . They may lose the battle of the court case but there may be enough public pressure that the athletes win the war. The Ivies certainly have the $ to spare.
 
From the Journal article:

"“The Ivy League Agreement has direct anticompetitive effects, raising the net price of education that Ivy League Athletes pay and suppressing compensation for the athletic services they provide to the University Defendants,” the suit says. Without the agreement, the plaintiffs allege, the schools would compete with one another regarding athletic scholarship offers, just as they do with compensation for full-time employees.

Division I and II schools award more than $3.7 billion in athletic scholarships annually to nearly 190,000 students, according to the NCAA. Among those are other academically competitive schools including Stanford University and Duke University.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs say the same rules that apply to the NCAA, as determined by the Supreme Court in a 2021 antitrust case, should apply to the Ivy League conference as well.

Tuesday’s lawsuit cites Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s concurring opinion in that case: “Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate.”

Two of the law firms behind Tuesday’s suit are also involved in a case against 17 prestigious colleges, filed in January 2022, that alleges the schools engage in antitrust violations because of how they determine financial-aid packages for many students. That case is ongoing, with no trial date yet set. The U.S. Justice Department filed a statement of interest last summer urging the judge not to dismiss the case outright."
 
I dated a girl that attended Brown. And I totally understand why two dudes from there would originate the lawsuit. Dated a chic (her friend m) from Columbia - much more normal. 😆
 
mthoopsfan said:
From the Journal article:

"“The Ivy League Agreement has direct anticompetitive effects, raising the net price of education that Ivy League Athletes pay and suppressing compensation for the athletic services they provide to the University Defendants,” the suit says. Without the agreement, the plaintiffs allege, the schools would compete with one another regarding athletic scholarship offers, just as they do with compensation for full-time employees.

Division I and II schools award more than $3.7 billion in athletic scholarships annually to nearly 190,000 students, according to the NCAA. Among those are other academically competitive schools including Stanford University and Duke University.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs say the same rules that apply to the NCAA, as determined by the Supreme Court in a 2021 antitrust case, should apply to the Ivy League conference as well.

Tuesday’s lawsuit cites Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s concurring opinion in that case: “Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate.”

Two of the law firms behind Tuesday’s suit are also involved in a case against 17 prestigious colleges, filed in January 2022, that alleges the schools engage in antitrust violations because of how they determine financial-aid packages for many students. That case is ongoing, with no trial date yet set. The U.S. Justice Department filed a statement of interest last summer urging the judge not to dismiss the case outright."
Click to expand...

And...what is the "market rate" on an Ivy education. Keep in mind, most who attend pay very little to do so...huge endowments make that possible and very common.

Service Academies also do not have scholarships...instead every person selected attends on the taxpayer dime. It is well worth the investment, but that is clearly my opinion and others may disagree.
 
SoldierGriz said:
mthoopsfan said:
From the Journal article:

"“The Ivy League Agreement has direct anticompetitive effects, raising the net price of education that Ivy League Athletes pay and suppressing compensation for the athletic services they provide to the University Defendants,” the suit says. Without the agreement, the plaintiffs allege, the schools would compete with one another regarding athletic scholarship offers, just as they do with compensation for full-time employees.

Division I and II schools award more than $3.7 billion in athletic scholarships annually to nearly 190,000 students, according to the NCAA. Among those are other academically competitive schools including Stanford University and Duke University.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs say the same rules that apply to the NCAA, as determined by the Supreme Court in a 2021 antitrust case, should apply to the Ivy League conference as well.

Tuesday’s lawsuit cites Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s concurring opinion in that case: “Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate.”

Two of the law firms behind Tuesday’s suit are also involved in a case against 17 prestigious colleges, filed in January 2022, that alleges the schools engage in antitrust violations because of how they determine financial-aid packages for many students. That case is ongoing, with no trial date yet set. The U.S. Justice Department filed a statement of interest last summer urging the judge not to dismiss the case outright."
Click to expand...

And...what is the "market rate" on an Ivy education. Keep in mind, most who attend pay very little to do so...huge endowments make that possible and very common.

Service Academies also do not have scholarships...instead every person selected attends on the taxpayer dime. It is well worth the investment, but that is clearly my opinion and others may disagree.
Click to expand...

At my school, Dartmouth, half of the students receive zero financial aid. Many don't receive much financial aid. Some receive a lot. Financial aid is need-based. The Ivies are now full of very rich kids. Tuition alone is $61,000. When it's all said and done, it costs about $100,000 annually to send a kid to the Ivies.
 
mthoopsfan said:
SoldierGriz said:
And...what is the "market rate" on an Ivy education. Keep in mind, most who attend pay very little to do so...huge endowments make that possible and very common.

Service Academies also do not have scholarships...instead every person selected attends on the taxpayer dime. It is well worth the investment, but that is clearly my opinion and others may disagree.
Click to expand...

At my school, Dartmouth, half of the students receive zero financial aid. Many don't receive much financial aid. Some receive a lot. Financial aid is need-based. The Ivies are now full of very rich kids. Tuition alone is $61,000. When it's all said and done, it costs about $100,000 annually to send a kid to the Ivies.
Click to expand...

The vast majority pay far less than that...and you know it.
 
SoldierGriz said:
mthoopsfan said:
At my school, Dartmouth, half of the students receive zero financial aid. Many don't receive much financial aid. Some receive a lot. Financial aid is need-based. The Ivies are now full of very rich kids. Tuition alone is $61,000. When it's all said and done, it costs about $100,000 annually to send a kid to the Ivies.
Click to expand...

The vast majority pay far less than that...and you know it.
Click to expand...

"49 percent of Dartmouth undergraduates received need-based financial aid from Dartmouth in fiscal year 2018.

Average financial aid package in 2017-2018 was $47,383.

Tuition is free to families earning less than $100,000 a year."

https://www.dartmouthcollegefund.org/dartmouths-wacky-business-model

"Distribution Details

Students Receiving Financial Aid
49%" [This is for the class of 2025]

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/dartmouth-college/tuition-and-costs

This link shows the amount of financial aid, based on family income level.

https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/afford/how-aid-works
 
mthoopsfan said:
SoldierGriz said:
The vast majority pay far less than that...and you know it.
Click to expand...

"49 percent of Dartmouth undergraduates received need-based financial aid from Dartmouth in fiscal year 2018.

Average financial aid package in 2017-2018 was $47,383.

Tuition is free to families earning less than $100,000 a year."

https://www.dartmouthcollegefund.org/dartmouths-wacky-business-model

"Distribution Details

Students Receiving Financial Aid
49%" [This is for the class of 2025]

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/dartmouth-college/tuition-and-costs

This link shows the amount of financial aid, based on family income level.

https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/afford/how-aid-works
Click to expand...

Dartmouth is stingy...go figure.

Harvard: For families with annual incomes below $75,000 (increased from $65,000 beginning in the 2022-23 academic year), the expected contribution is zero. Families with annual incomes between $75,000 and $150,000 will contribute between 0 and 10 percent of their income. Those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10 percent based on their circumstances.

100% of Harvard students receive some aid.

Like I said, the vast majority pay far less than published costs...many paying zero.
 
SoldierGriz said:
mthoopsfan said:
"49 percent of Dartmouth undergraduates received need-based financial aid from Dartmouth in fiscal year 2018.

Average financial aid package in 2017-2018 was $47,383.

Tuition is free to families earning less than $100,000 a year."

https://www.dartmouthcollegefund.org/dartmouths-wacky-business-model

"Distribution Details

Students Receiving Financial Aid
49%" [This is for the class of 2025]

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/colleges/dartmouth-college/tuition-and-costs

This link shows the amount of financial aid, based on family income level.

https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/afford/how-aid-works
Click to expand...

Dartmouth is stingy...go figure.

Harvard: For families with annual incomes below $75,000 (increased from $65,000 beginning in the 2022-23 academic year), the expected contribution is zero. Families with annual incomes between $75,000 and $150,000 will contribute between 0 and 10 percent of their income. Those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10 percent based on their circumstances.

100% of Harvard students receive some aid.

Like I said, the vast majority pay far less than published costs...many paying zero.
Click to expand...

100% of kids are Harvard don't receive some aid.

"Harvard College has 55% of students receiving financial aid and an average aid package of $67,898."

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org › colleges › tuition-an...

From the Harvard website:

"55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships."

https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet

Dartmouth has similar financial aid levels as the other Ivies. But, as I said, there are a lot of rich kids at Dartmouth. My daughter didn't receive one cent of aid at Dartmouth.

Man, you are full of misinformation. On both the Ivies and the Academies. Also, often on Griz football.
 
mthoopsfan said:
SoldierGriz said:
Dartmouth is stingy...go figure.

Harvard: For families with annual incomes below $75,000 (increased from $65,000 beginning in the 2022-23 academic year), the expected contribution is zero. Families with annual incomes between $75,000 and $150,000 will contribute between 0 and 10 percent of their income. Those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10 percent based on their circumstances.

100% of Harvard students receive some aid.

Like I said, the vast majority pay far less than published costs...many paying zero.
Click to expand...

100% of kids are Harvard don't receive some aid.

"Harvard College has 55% of students receiving financial aid and an average aid package of $67,898."

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org › colleges › tuition-an...

From the Harvard website:

"55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships."

https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet

Dartmouth has similar financial aid levels as the other Ivies. But, as I said, there are a lot of rich kids at Dartmouth. My daughter didn't receive one cent of aid at Dartmouth.

Man, you are full of misinformation. On both the Ivies and the Academies. Also, often on Griz football.
Click to expand...

Wrong again dude. The vast majority of students attending Ivys do not pay the sticker price...that is a fact.
 
SoldierGriz said:
mthoopsfan said:
100% of kids are Harvard don't receive some aid.

"Harvard College has 55% of students receiving financial aid and an average aid package of $67,898."

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org › colleges › tuition-an...

From the Harvard website:

"55% of our undergraduates receive need-based Harvard scholarships."

https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet

Dartmouth has similar financial aid levels as the other Ivies. But, as I said, there are a lot of rich kids at Dartmouth. My daughter didn't receive one cent of aid at Dartmouth.

Man, you are full of misinformation. On both the Ivies and the Academies. Also, often on Griz football.
Click to expand...

Wrong again dude. The vast majority of students attending Ivys do not pay the sticker price...that is a fact.
Click to expand...

About half of the students at most Ivy schools get financial aid. The other half gets nothing. You don't know what you're talking about. Of course, you seldom do, so why would this time be different.

I will be you any amount of money on this.
 
mthoopsfan said:
SoldierGriz said:
Wrong again dude. The vast majority of students attending Ivys do not pay the sticker price...that is a fact.
Click to expand...

About half of the students at most Ivy schools get financial aid. The other half gets nothing. You don't know what you're talking about. Of course, you seldom do, so why would this time be different.

I will be you any amount of money on this.
Click to expand...

"The schools overwhelmingly granted financial aid to those who applied. Each year, almost every school provided financial aid to over 80 percent of aid applicants, with only a single data point — Penn in 2011 — dipping below that metric.

During the period for which data is available, Yale awarded aid at the highest rate, granting money to an average of 93 percent of students who requested it, and Dartmouth awarded aid at the lowest rate, giving assistance to an average of 87 percent of those who asked."

87 percent of Dartmouth students received aid...the lowest percentage of the ivies.

The fact is the vast majority of those attending the Ivies do not pay sticker price. It's not debatable, but not surprised you will argue it. It's what you do.
 
SoldierGriz said:
mthoopsfan said:
About half of the students at most Ivy schools get financial aid. The other half gets nothing. You don't know what you're talking about. Of course, you seldom do, so why would this time be different.

I will be you any amount of money on this.
Click to expand...

"The schools overwhelmingly granted financial aid to those who applied. Each year, almost every school provided financial aid to over 80 percent of aid applicants, with only a single data point — Penn in 2011 — dipping below that metric.

During the period for which data is available, Yale awarded aid at the highest rate, granting money to an average of 93 percent of students who requested it, and Dartmouth awarded aid at the lowest rate, giving assistance to an average of 87 percent of those who asked."

87 percent of Dartmouth students received aid...the lowest percentage of the ivies.

The fact is the vast majority of those attending the Ivies do not pay sticker price. It's not debatable, but not surprised you will argue it. It's what you do.
Click to expand...

You are crushing PR on all of this, but don’t be too excited about it, he’s wrong a lot, especially about Cat and griz football. He is a good lawyer though, gotta give credit there. Also he was definitely right about RaeQuan Battle.
 
SoldierGriz said:
mthoopsfan said:
About half of the students at most Ivy schools get financial aid. The other half gets nothing. You don't know what you're talking about. Of course, you seldom do, so why would this time be different.

I will be you any amount of money on this.
Click to expand...

"The schools overwhelmingly granted financial aid to those who applied. Each year, almost every school provided financial aid to over 80 percent of aid applicants, with only a single data point — Penn in 2011 — dipping below that metric.

During the period for which data is available, Yale awarded aid at the highest rate, granting money to an average of 93 percent of students who requested it, and Dartmouth awarded aid at the lowest rate, giving assistance to an average of 87 percent of those who asked."

87 percent of Dartmouth students received aid...the lowest percentage of the ivies.

The fact is the vast majority of those attending the Ivies do not pay sticker price. It's not debatable, but not surprised you will argue it. It's what you do.
Click to expand...

Where are your citations? Most don’t request aid, because they know they don’t qualify for it. Give us stats for how many attendees get aid. You are stupid. A total idiot. I feel sorry for you.
 
mthoopsfan said:
SoldierGriz said:
"The schools overwhelmingly granted financial aid to those who applied. Each year, almost every school provided financial aid to over 80 percent of aid applicants, with only a single data point — Penn in 2011 — dipping below that metric.

During the period for which data is available, Yale awarded aid at the highest rate, granting money to an average of 93 percent of students who requested it, and Dartmouth awarded aid at the lowest rate, giving assistance to an average of 87 percent of those who asked."

87 percent of Dartmouth students received aid...the lowest percentage of the ivies.

The fact is the vast majority of those attending the Ivies do not pay sticker price. It's not debatable, but not surprised you will argue it. It's what you do.
Click to expand...

Where are your citations? Most don’t request aid, because they know they don’t qualify for it. Give us stats for how many attendees get aid. You are stupid. A total idiot. I feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...

:lol: Pretty dark here inside your head.

"Over time, all institutions have grown to cover a larger portion of the total cost of attendance. In 2019, Princeton covered the greatest fraction, the average aid package from the University covered 85 percent of the total cost for an individual student to enroll."

This is particularly telling because of all the Ivies - Princeton attracts students from the wealthiest families.
 
SoldierGriz said:
mthoopsfan said:
Where are your citations? Most don’t request aid, because they know they don’t qualify for it. Give us stats for how many attendees get aid. You are stupid. A total idiot. I feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...

:lol: Pretty dark here inside your head.

"Over time, all institutions have grown to cover a larger portion of the total cost of attendance. In 2019, Princeton covered the greatest fraction, the average aid package from the University covered 85 percent of the total cost for an individual student to enroll."

This is particularly telling because of all the Ivies - Princeton attracts students from the wealthiest families.
Click to expand...
Maybe that explains why Arizona went down.
 
SoldierGriz said:
mthoopsfan said:
Where are your citations? Most don’t request aid, because they know they don’t qualify for it. Give us stats for how many attendees get aid. You are stupid. A total idiot. I feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...

:lol: Pretty dark here inside your head.

"Over time, all institutions have grown to cover a larger portion of the total cost of attendance. In 2019, Princeton covered the greatest fraction, the average aid package from the University covered 85 percent of the total cost for an individual student to enroll."

This is particularly telling because of all the Ivies - Princeton attracts students from the wealthiest families.
Click to expand...

If a student does not have or qualify for an aid package, they have zero aid. Can you not read and comprehend?

Roughly half of students don’t have financial aid packages
 
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