Shannon???

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MissoulaMarinerFan
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Re: Shannon???

Post by MissoulaMarinerFan » Tue May 28, 2019 1:56 pm

citay wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:40 pm
Dillon wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:46 am
citay wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:23 pm
maroonandsilver wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:31 pm
I find it most disturbing that AAU coaches are steering their girls away from the Lady Griz.

One of the former Lady Griz, who chose to leave with eligibility remaining, recently told me that playing for Shannon was "the worst experience of my life!).
I would guess that when you are as good a player as Shannon was (and she was VERY good, a Kodak All-American, remember) you lose patience fast with players less skilled, players who are not at your level and never will be. There is a notable arrogance that develops when you are as good as Shannon was, and that arrogance probably carries over as a coach. So there's probably a great deal of frustration on both sides of the equation, players and coach.

But if her attitude is such that it's driving away players, and creating animosity among AAU coaches, then this can't last. It's very much my opinion that within any subset of American culture, be it sports, business, academia, entertainment or whatever, reputation counts, and bad news spreads fast. As a friend of mine once said, "Ya gotta draw the line somewhere."
I may be way off base here but my take on the whole thing is Shannon is trying to coach like Selvig coached & Selvig coached like Heathcoat coached. In your face, high pressure all the time, my way or the highway kind of thing. Shannon needs to do her own thing. Time to try a different approach Coach! Players will play their hearts out if they respect & admire her. Just one mans opinion.
That's a good opinion, in my view. You've drawn a direct link to a coach who was not only the trunk of the Montana coaching tree, but "old school" as well. But the Bobby Knight school of coaching--yelling, humiliating players in public--is long gone. Let a Tom Izzo humiliate a player in public, as he did this past year, and there are recriminations, explanations and apologies all around. Steve Kerr is today's model coach.
I wonder Selvig sounded like a hard-ass on the court during game day, but not practice? It was kind of comical when Selvig would "yell" at a player during the game...and by yelling, I mean, if they did something wrong, he would shout their first name somewhat exasperatedly and then shake his head and mumble to himself. Just by shouting a first name he seemed to imply "hey, don't do that! we went over and over this during practice!" :lol:

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Re: Shannon???

Post by PlayerRep » Tue May 28, 2019 7:36 pm

MissoulaMarinerFan wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:56 pm
citay wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:40 pm
Dillon wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:46 am
citay wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:23 pm


I would guess that when you are as good a player as Shannon was (and she was VERY good, a Kodak All-American, remember) you lose patience fast with players less skilled, players who are not at your level and never will be. There is a notable arrogance that develops when you are as good as Shannon was, and that arrogance probably carries over as a coach. So there's probably a great deal of frustration on both sides of the equation, players and coach.

But if her attitude is such that it's driving away players, and creating animosity among AAU coaches, then this can't last. It's very much my opinion that within any subset of American culture, be it sports, business, academia, entertainment or whatever, reputation counts, and bad news spreads fast. As a friend of mine once said, "Ya gotta draw the line somewhere."
I may be way off base here but my take on the whole thing is Shannon is trying to coach like Selvig coached & Selvig coached like Heathcoat coached. In your face, high pressure all the time, my way or the highway kind of thing. Shannon needs to do her own thing. Time to try a different approach Coach! Players will play their hearts out if they respect & admire her. Just one mans opinion.
That's a good opinion, in my view. You've drawn a direct link to a coach who was not only the trunk of the Montana coaching tree, but "old school" as well. But the Bobby Knight school of coaching--yelling, humiliating players in public--is long gone. Let a Tom Izzo humiliate a player in public, as he did this past year, and there are recriminations, explanations and apologies all around. Steve Kerr is today's model coach.
I wonder Selvig sounded like a hard-ass on the court during game day, but not practice? It was kind of comical when Selvig would "yell" at a player during the game...and by yelling, I mean, if they did something wrong, he would shout their first name somewhat exasperatedly and then shake his head and mumble to himself. Just by shouting a first name he seemed to imply "hey, don't do that! we went over and over this during practice!" :lol:
Selvig yelled, but I didn't think he "berated" anyone on the court. I have heard many former LG talk in interviews, and in person, and never thought they felt that he berated them. They would tell the stories of what he said, and then laugh about it. All of the LG I know or have met like, appreciate and respect Selvig. I suppose that doesn't mean they liked him every minute.

I believe a former LG is putting together a documentary on Selvig. She's been working on it for a couple years.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by moneyball » Wed May 29, 2019 9:07 am

maroonandsilver wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:31 pm
I find it most disturbing that AAU coaches are steering their girls away from the Lady Griz.

One of the former Lady Griz, who chose to leave with eligibility remaining, recently told me that playing for Shannon was "the worst experience of my life!).
she is not the only one that would tell you that!!!

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Re: Shannon???

Post by Grizfan-24 » Thu May 30, 2019 1:09 pm

From a coaches perspective, I have learned that you can't make promises and you need to have a two way street communication policy. I think commonly coaches over promise and i have done that several times in my years of coaching. Players don't need to know everything, but you have to communicate clearly and honestly to players. Been a part of staffs where that wasn't the case and you could see rather quickly that it was going to be a dumpster fire.

Sometimes talent and scheme can overcome those types of things, but many times it doesn't. If players don't trust the process you aren't going to get the best out of them no matter how good at X's and O's you are.

Those bad experiences have a cumulative effect. Players talk. High School, AAU, ASA and club sports coaches all learn what coaches are honest brokers and the ones to avoid. I can't say at all what the actual case is with Shannnon, but if rumors are true then this is can have a chronic impact on the program. There were head guys that I have worked for that wouldn't return phone calls from college coaches or give them access to players because of prior treatment.
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Re: Shannon???

Post by citay » Thu May 30, 2019 1:46 pm

I don't know what the issues are with Shannon. My concerns about the Lady Griz program far transcend just her.

This: That both coaches in the history of the program were born and raised in Montana, one in a very small town in Montana, and their perspectives reflect that. No outreach to major urban areas, where the majority of high school talent lives--only to other small towns in Montana and the Pacific Northwest that reflect their upbringings. We're fortunate that the state of Montana has produced so many outstanding women's players through the years. We're unfortunate that neither staff ever blended in outstanding talent from outside of mostly rural areas in the Pacific Northwest.

As Thoreau said: The world is far wider than our view of it.

And one more thing: Don't give me the "small recruiting budget" argument. The players who have played on the men's side--both basketball and football--could have provided umpteen recruiting leads for the Lady Griz coaches, if asked.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by Zirg » Thu May 30, 2019 10:47 pm

maroonandsilver wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:31 pm
I find it most disturbing that AAU coaches are steering their girls away from the Lady Griz.

One of the former Lady Griz, who chose to leave with eligibility remaining, recently told me that playing for Shannon was "the worst experience of my life!).
AAU coaches would probably be steering their players away from Robin Selvig too. They'd say:"He can't relate to you girls". He only landed one blue-chip recruit (Shannon) in his entire tenure. These agents/AAU coaches are ruining basketball, and continue to perpetuate a panacea attitude for our youth. If everything isn't perfect, then why tough it out?

You can find someone who quits a team in any sport at any school in America who will say playing for "blank" was "the worst experience of my life". You can probably find guys who left Alabama football who would say the same thing. Imagine what ppl would say about Bobby Knight's approach today. If you win, nobody seems to care about the process, but if everything isn't rainbows and Unicorns, it's someone else's fault and there seems to be an epidemic of "soft" college kids these days.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by PlayerRep » Thu May 30, 2019 10:59 pm

Mandy Morales was certainly a blue chip recruit. Averaged 15.9 as a frosh, and about 17 her last 2 seasons. Was MVP of the conference tourney the last 2 years. Think she was/is 4th in career scoring in the conference.

"Morales finished her career as a four-time honorable mention All-American and a four-time first team All-Big Sky selection. Morales is one of five players in league history to earn first-team honors four straight years. She was also named Big Sky Conference player of the week a record 13 times.

Morales was also tied for fifth in league history with 587 career assists. She is the only player in league history to score 1,500 points and dish out 500 assists. She holds the single-game record for free-throw percentage, making 18-of-18 in a 2006 game against Santa Clara. She finished all-time in free throws made at 533."

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Re: Shannon???

Post by grizindabox » Thu May 30, 2019 11:48 pm

Zirg wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:47 pm
maroonandsilver wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:31 pm
I find it most disturbing that AAU coaches are steering their girls away from the Lady Griz.

One of the former Lady Griz, who chose to leave with eligibility remaining, recently told me that playing for Shannon was "the worst experience of my life!).
AAU coaches would probably be steering their players away from Robin Selvig too. They'd say:"He can't relate to you girls". He only landed one blue-chip recruit (Shannon) in his entire tenure. These agents/AAU coaches are ruining basketball, and continue to perpetuate a panacea attitude for our youth. If everything isn't perfect, then why tough it out?

You can find someone who quits a team in any sport at any school in America who will say playing for "blank" was "the worst experience of my life". You can probably find guys who left Alabama football who would say the same thing. Imagine what ppl would say about Bobby Knight's approach today. If you win, nobody seems to care about the process, but if everything isn't rainbows and Unicorns, it's someone else's fault and there seems to be an epidemic of "soft" college kids these days.
You shouldn't assume that only girls that have left feel that way about Shannon and her leadership.
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Re: Shannon???

Post by MissoulaCanucksFan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:38 am

One-year extension for Shannon appears to be a done deal.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by maroonandsilver » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:33 am

A 1-year extension is a kiss of death. The AD obviously (and with good reason) is not showing confidence in Shannon. Currently, Shannon is recruiting young women for the 2020 season. These women cannot be sure she still be the UM coach when they arrive on campus. Shannon is recruiting against coaches with multi-year contracts.

I'm underwhelmed.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by HookedonGriz » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:47 am

maroonandsilver wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:33 am
A 1-year extension is a kiss of death. The AD obviously (and with good reason) is not showing confidence in Shannon. Currently, Shannon is recruiting young women for the 2020 season. These women cannot be sure she still be the UM coach when they arrive on campus. Shannon is recruiting against coaches with multi-year contracts.

I'm underwhelmed.
All true but if they gave her a 3 year contract we’d all be bitching about that too. I like this one year. Time to put up or shut up really.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by marooncoloredglasses » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:51 am

As I remember, the Lady Griz and Robin Selvig weren't Morales first choice. Didn't she sign with one of the Arizona' schools initially and had to redshirt her freshman due to transfer rules.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by MissoulaMarinerFan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:09 am

marooncoloredglasses wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:51 am
As I remember, the Lady Griz and Robin Selvig weren't Morales first choice. Didn't she sign with one of the Arizona' schools initially and had to redshirt her freshman due to transfer rules.
I believe you're correct. I think she was originally at Arizona State.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by MissoulaMarinerFan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:11 am

HookedonGriz wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:47 am
maroonandsilver wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:33 am
A 1-year extension is a kiss of death. The AD obviously (and with good reason) is not showing confidence in Shannon. Currently, Shannon is recruiting young women for the 2020 season. These women cannot be sure she still be the UM coach when they arrive on campus. Shannon is recruiting against coaches with multi-year contracts.

I'm underwhelmed.
All true but if they gave her a 3 year contract we’d all be bitching about that too. I like this one year. Time to put up or shut up really.
Agreed - I'm ambivalent. Still rooting like crazy for the ladies. As far as the one year contract...we're only what 5? (more?) years removed from every coach being on 1 year contracts. I can't remember when the B.O.R agreed to allow the universities to offer contracts longer than 1 year.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by 717s7e » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:39 pm

I am anxious for hoop season.

Travis will have an interesting mixture of returning players with the redshirts, particularly Tony Miller.Anderson's development will be huge.

On the other hand, Shannon will have a veteran team, particularly with the return of Sophia Stiles. Jamie Pickens is said to be the best Montana player since Shannon - and Montana has produced some fine players in that span. I have no doubt the Lady Griz will be a very strong team this year. Counting the days.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by TrueGriz » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:13 pm

MissoulaMarinerFan wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:09 am
marooncoloredglasses wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:51 am
As I remember, the Lady Griz and Robin Selvig weren't Morales first choice. Didn't she sign with one of the Arizona' schools initially and had to redshirt her freshman due to transfer rules.
I believe you're correct. I think she was originally at Arizona State.
She signed a letter of intent to Arizona State but her grandfather was having health problems and ASU let her off easy which allowed Morales to play 4 years instead of only 3 years. she still had to redshirt the first year.
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Re: Shannon???

Post by TrueGriz » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:19 pm

MissoulaMarinerFan wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:11 am
HookedonGriz wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:47 am
maroonandsilver wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:33 am
A 1-year extension is a kiss of death. The AD obviously (and with good reason) is not showing confidence in Shannon. Currently, Shannon is recruiting young women for the 2020 season. These women cannot be sure she still be the UM coach when they arrive on campus. Shannon is recruiting against coaches with multi-year contracts.

I'm underwhelmed.
All true but if they gave her a 3 year contract we’d all be bitching about that too. I like this one year. Time to put up or shut up really.
Agreed - I'm ambivalent. Still rooting like crazy for the ladies. As far as the one year contract...we're only what 5? (more?) years removed from every coach being on 1 year contracts. I can't remember when the B.O.R agreed to allow the universities to offer contracts longer than 1 year.
I forgot when also, but just because a coach has a multi-year contract does not mean that coach will be around for the duration of a prospective player. No matter where they go, there is a chance they will not be playing for the same coach when they finish. having a multi-year contract certainly increases the odds quite a bit you will be playing for the same coach more than 1 year.

I, for one, was in favor of a 1 year contract.
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Re: Shannon???

Post by MissoulaCanucksFan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:27 pm

MissoulaMarinerFan wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:11 am
I can't remember when the B.O.R agreed to allow the universities to offer contracts longer than 1 year.
If my memory serves me right, I think the Board of Regents allowed multi-year deals in 2008 or 2009, but not to exceed three years in length.

As for Shannon getting only a one-year extension, I'm not the least bit surprised. I really thought that she wasn't going to be renewed after this past season. But I do think the one-year extension is fair.
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Re: Shannon???

Post by Zirg » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:33 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:59 pm
Mandy Morales was certainly a blue chip recruit. Averaged 15.9 as a frosh, and about 17 her last 2 seasons. Was MVP of the conference tourney the last 2 years. Think she was/is 4th in career scoring in the conference.

"Morales finished her career as a four-time honorable mention All-American and a four-time first team All-Big Sky selection. Morales is one of five players in league history to earn first-team honors four straight years. She was also named Big Sky Conference player of the week a record 13 times.

Morales was also tied for fifth in league history with 587 career assists. She is the only player in league history to score 1,500 points and dish out 500 assists. She holds the single-game record for free-throw percentage, making 18-of-18 in a 2006 game against Santa Clara. She finished all-time in free throws made at 533."
True but she went to Arizona State first

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Re: Shannon???

Post by Zirg » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:56 pm

grizindabox wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:48 pm
Zirg wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:47 pm
maroonandsilver wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:31 pm
I find it most disturbing that AAU coaches are steering their girls away from the Lady Griz.

One of the former Lady Griz, who chose to leave with eligibility remaining, recently told me that playing for Shannon was "the worst experience of my life!).
AAU coaches would probably be steering their players away from Robin Selvig too. They'd say:"He can't relate to you girls". He only landed one blue-chip recruit (Shannon) in his entire tenure. These agents/AAU coaches are ruining basketball, and continue to perpetuate a panacea attitude for our youth. If everything isn't perfect, then why tough it out?

You can find someone who quits a team in any sport at any school in America who will say playing for "blank" was "the worst experience of my life". You can probably find guys who left Alabama football who would say the same thing. Imagine what ppl would say about Bobby Knight's approach today. If you win, nobody seems to care about the process, but if everything isn't rainbows and Unicorns, it's someone else's fault and there seems to be an epidemic of "soft" college kids these days.
You shouldn't assume that only girls that have left feel that way about Shannon and her leadership.
I'm not assuming anything. Everyone seems to have their mind made up one way or the other, but I am truly 100% still open-minded about Shannon. I don't think she has ever been given a fair chance (considering all the injuries and never being able to put a true A team out there) to prove anything.

I am admittedly ignorant to Shannon's specific tactics (and what happens behind the scenes), but I wonder:How long would Robin Selvig last as a Women's college coach in today's age the way he screamed and berated his players? With a losing record? Nobody cared because he won and it was a different time, but he wouldn't even be given a chance in today's climate, so that makes me ask:Who the hell do you guys want?

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