Indoor practice facility

Get the low down on Griz Football and the FCS
Post Reply
User avatar
Yukon
Posts: 3438
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:51 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by Yukon » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:41 pm

Topic of thread....SWOOSH!! gone.
"Facts are stubborn things" John Adams

Spanky2
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by Spanky2 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:42 pm

After all of the discussion, it seems that since football is a contact sport, the possibility of injury is constant, no matter the team you are playing. Injury can occur

Spanky2
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by Spanky2 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Well anyway, you get the idea. Bottom line, Player is wrong.😈

PlayerRep
Posts: 25190
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by PlayerRep » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:55 pm

Spanky2 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:43 pm
Well anyway, you get the idea. Bottom line, Player is wrong.😈
The information shows that I was absolutely right. As usual.

User avatar
SoldierGriz
eGriz Club
Posts: 3224
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:59 am
Location: Displaced from the Last Best Place

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by SoldierGriz » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:04 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:38 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:13 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:41 am
SaskGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:30 am


Yeah that last sentence needed some proof reading. What I meant to say was; By a comparison I didn't MEAN a comparison of various party's opinions, I meant an actual comparison using numbers and data.

Anecdotal stuff doesn't work for this particular discussion;

Jordan Johnson got hurt vs Wyoming, Reese Phillips didn't get hurt against UW
Reese Phillips got hurt vs Savannah State, Jordan Johnson didn't get hurt against Tennessee.

This is all meaningless without number crunching.
I provided some numbers. A ton of people got injured against Oregon. 3 starting qb's in 5 play up games not available for the next game.

Feel free to provide your own numbers that few players get hurt in play up games.
Okay, I only looked at the last 4 Play-Up games; UW(2017), Wyoming(2014), Tennessee(2011) and Iowa(2006).

I looked at who played in the play-up game and then whether they played in the next game and then whether they played in the game after that.

UW - David Shaw missed the blow out over Savannah State but played the week after.
Shane Moody appeared in neither of the next two games, don't know if that was injury or he fell out of favour.

Wyoming- Ben Weyer, Jordan Johnson, John Nguyen all missed the game against Central Washington but were back for South Dakota. Caleb Kidder appeared in neither of the next two games.

Tennessee - Matt Hermanson missed the next game against Cal Poly. Brett Kirschner, Bryce Carver, and Chris Bradford appeared in neither of the next two games. None of these four players were starters.

Iowa - Josh Swogger, David Haile, and Dan Carter missed the next game against SDSU but were back for Sac State (Swogger went 14-18, 221, 3TDS). Tyson Johnson and Chris Dyk did not appear in either of the next two games.

I realise that this doesn't mean that players didn't play hurt. To figure out if this is more or less than injury levels in FCS or play down games would take more effort/time than I can currently give. It seems to me that these levels of injury do not seem particularily high or out of proportion to any given Saturday.
This level of injury is very high. This proves my point. Look at Wyo. in 1997, That will further prove the point. Also, give us the report on the Oregon game. This further proves my point.

Tyson Johnson tore his ACL at Iowa and didn't play the rest of the season.
Anyone ever tear an ACL in a play down game? Probably not.
FTc, FTv, FTmissoulian

User avatar
SoldierGriz
eGriz Club
Posts: 3224
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:59 am
Location: Displaced from the Last Best Place

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by SoldierGriz » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:05 pm

Yukon wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:41 pm
Topic of thread....SWOOSH!! gone.
The topic of this thread is to get it to 17 pages. Just need PR to find more lists...that is key.
FTc, FTv, FTmissoulian

poorgriz
Posts: 3332
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:11 pm

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by poorgriz » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:30 pm

SoldierGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:05 pm
Yukon wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:41 pm
Topic of thread....SWOOSH!! gone.
The topic of this thread is to get it to 17 pages. Just need PR to find more lists...that is key.
I CANNOT BELIEVE nobody on here will simply take some time and compile stats for all the college footballs games played over the last decade, and run the injury numbers. That'd be a heluva good sample size. First you'd have to define exactly what is considered an injury. Then, run the numbers. 85,000 games should prove out, or disprove this theory. My guess is that there will be very little if any statistical difference in injuries, and if there is a difference it will be slightly more injuries to a team when they're playing DOWN a level.
Bobby Hauck is God. He's not a God... he's the God.

alabamagrizzly
Posts: 3595
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:05 pm
Location: body in Alabama, heart in Montana

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by alabamagrizzly » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:06 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:48 am
alabamagrizzly wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:32 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 pm
Injuries after Oregon game in 2005. 12 injuries going into the next week. Who's going to be the first to say that UM always has 12 injuries of top players after the first game? Was it Raider who said he couldn't remember any injuries after the Oregon game?

"But that injury list is still pretty long.

The most important loss is linebacker Loren Utterback, a starter on the strong side. His father Brad confirmed on Tuesday that the 218-pound sophomore suffered a broken foot with around eight minutes left in the game. The Fort Benton product had surgery Monday, and will be out 6-8 weeks.

At Montana's weekly press conference, head coach Bobby Hauck noted 12 injuries, without giving specifics.

Hauck listed defensive tackle Alan Saenz, defensive end Mike Murphy, corners Quentin Jackson and Tuff Harris and receiver Jon Talmage as probable; safety Colt Anderson, defensive tackle Jesse Carlson and guard Jason Frink as questionable; and corner Chris Clark, running back JR Waller and Utterback doubtful; and safety Jake McCarthy, who was hurt on the opening kickoff, as out."

https://missoulian.com/sports/injuries- ... e8b9d.html
I guess Hauck wasn’t one it your sources on coaches who don’t like these games.
With everything considered, Hauck said the possibility exists for similar games.

"I think it was a good game for us," he said. "There are very few teams that will make it worth our while to go play them, and Oregon is one. If they're willing to make it financially worthwhile, I think it's worth it to go play them."
I have never said any coach or AD didn't like the FBS games. I said they various coaches and AD's have told me that they believe the risk of injury is higher in those games. I also believe that to be true.

Why can't you stick to the subtopic? Why do you have to make up straw man arguments? Answer: because you know that you can't refute my assertion. You need to try to move the goalposts to argue something else.
Sorry, I’m not into arguing for fun like you. You should talk with my brother. He’s better at it but he’s also a lawyer. I’m also glad you finally realized this is a “subtopic”.
"In Bill's(Wild Bill Kelly) tragic death there might be some message for the college society that basks in the glory of the football team and the individual heroes, but overlooks the fact that they are like the rest of us with conflicts, fears, frustrations, and weakness."-Joseph Cochran, friend of Kelly's

SaskGriz
Posts: 2137
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:55 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by SaskGriz » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:29 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:38 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:13 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:41 am
SaskGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:30 am


Yeah that last sentence needed some proof reading. What I meant to say was; By a comparison I didn't MEAN a comparison of various party's opinions, I meant an actual comparison using numbers and data.

Anecdotal stuff doesn't work for this particular discussion;

Jordan Johnson got hurt vs Wyoming, Reese Phillips didn't get hurt against UW
Reese Phillips got hurt vs Savannah State, Jordan Johnson didn't get hurt against Tennessee.

This is all meaningless without number crunching.
I provided some numbers. A ton of people got injured against Oregon. 3 starting qb's in 5 play up games not available for the next game.

Feel free to provide your own numbers that few players get hurt in play up games.
Okay, I only looked at the last 4 Play-Up games; UW(2017), Wyoming(2014), Tennessee(2011) and Iowa(2006).

I looked at who played in the play-up game and then whether they played in the next game and then whether they played in the game after that.

UW - David Shaw missed the blow out over Savannah State but played the week after.
Shane Moody appeared in neither of the next two games, don't know if that was injury or he fell out of favour.

Wyoming- Ben Weyer, Jordan Johnson, John Nguyen all missed the game against Central Washington but were back for South Dakota. Caleb Kidder appeared in neither of the next two games.

Tennessee - Matt Hermanson missed the next game against Cal Poly. Brett Kirschner, Bryce Carver, and Chris Bradford appeared in neither of the next two games. None of these four players were starters.

Iowa - Josh Swogger, David Haile, and Dan Carter missed the next game against SDSU but were back for Sac State (Swogger went 14-18, 221, 3TDS). Tyson Johnson and Chris Dyk did not appear in either of the next two games.

I realise that this doesn't mean that players didn't play hurt. To figure out if this is more or less than injury levels in FCS or play down games would take more effort/time than I can currently give. It seems to me that these levels of injury do not seem particularily high or out of proportion to any given Saturday.
This level of injury is very high. This proves my point. Look at Wyo. in 1997, That will further prove the point. Also, give us the report on the Oregon game. This further proves my point.

Tyson Johnson tore his ACL at Iowa and didn't play the rest of the season.
I don't think this does prove your point. What do you mean that this level of injury is very high? What are you comparing it to? In the three games I checked where I could find the starters; we lost no starter for more than one game. In the Iowa game I was unable to determine who started and who didn't but I'm prepared to accept that losing your punter, Tyson Johnson is unfortunate. We have lost our punter in four games to a serious injury. I think I could probably pick any four games and find a starter who lost significant time.

Even though I'm not one of your paralegals I went ahead and ran the 2005 Oregon game as you instructed. It is by far the worst of the five play up games for injury. 10 players missed the next game; nine reserves and one starter (Loren Utterbeck), all of them played again that season with the exception of Jake McCarthy. 3 played after missing only one game (Karl Pitcher, Eric Michel and Peter Sloan).

Again in five play up games we lost a punter and one every down player (who later came back to play that year). I can't think that is an unusually high number.

Spanky2
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by Spanky2 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:53 pm

Player has forgotten more about football than I will learn. However, in this instance, I suspect he is aware he can’t prove his original premise, but isn’t prepared to concede.

PlayerRep
Posts: 25190
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by PlayerRep » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:53 pm

poorgriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:30 pm
SoldierGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:05 pm
Yukon wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:41 pm
Topic of thread....SWOOSH!! gone.
The topic of this thread is to get it to 17 pages. Just need PR to find more lists...that is key.
I CANNOT BELIEVE nobody on here will simply take some time and compile stats for all the college footballs games played over the last decade, and run the injury numbers. That'd be a heluva good sample size. First you'd have to define exactly what is considered an injury. Then, run the numbers. 85,000 games should prove out, or disprove this theory. My guess is that there will be very little if any statistical difference in injuries, and if there is a difference it will be slightly more injuries to a team when they're playing DOWN a level.
If those stats or studies don't exist, it's probably because it's so obvious to most that play up games against good FBS teams some amount of additional injuries. Just common sense.

PlayerRep
Posts: 25190
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by PlayerRep » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:59 pm

SaskGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:29 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:38 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:13 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:41 am


I provided some numbers. A ton of people got injured against Oregon. 3 starting qb's in 5 play up games not available for the next game.

Feel free to provide your own numbers that few players get hurt in play up games.
Okay, I only looked at the last 4 Play-Up games; UW(2017), Wyoming(2014), Tennessee(2011) and Iowa(2006).

I looked at who played in the play-up game and then whether they played in the next game and then whether they played in the game after that.

UW - David Shaw missed the blow out over Savannah State but played the week after.
Shane Moody appeared in neither of the next two games, don't know if that was injury or he fell out of favour.

Wyoming- Ben Weyer, Jordan Johnson, John Nguyen all missed the game against Central Washington but were back for South Dakota. Caleb Kidder appeared in neither of the next two games.

Tennessee - Matt Hermanson missed the next game against Cal Poly. Brett Kirschner, Bryce Carver, and Chris Bradford appeared in neither of the next two games. None of these four players were starters.

Iowa - Josh Swogger, David Haile, and Dan Carter missed the next game against SDSU but were back for Sac State (Swogger went 14-18, 221, 3TDS). Tyson Johnson and Chris Dyk did not appear in either of the next two games.

I realise that this doesn't mean that players didn't play hurt. To figure out if this is more or less than injury levels in FCS or play down games would take more effort/time than I can currently give. It seems to me that these levels of injury do not seem particularily high or out of proportion to any given Saturday.
This level of injury is very high. This proves my point. Look at Wyo. in 1997, That will further prove the point. Also, give us the report on the Oregon game. This further proves my point.

Tyson Johnson tore his ACL at Iowa and didn't play the rest of the season.
I don't think this does prove your point. What do you mean that this level of injury is very high? What are you comparing it to? In the three games I checked where I could find the starters; we lost no starter for more than one game. In the Iowa game I was unable to determine who started and who didn't but I'm prepared to accept that losing your punter, Tyson Johnson is unfortunate. We have lost our punter in four games to a serious injury. I think I could probably pick any four games and find a starter who lost significant time.

Even though I'm not one of your paralegals I went ahead and ran the 2005 Oregon game as you instructed. It is by far the worst of the five play up games for injury. 10 players missed the next game; nine reserves and one starter (Loren Utterbeck), all of them played again that season with the exception of Jake McCarthy. 3 played after missing only one game (Karl Pitcher, Eric Michel and Peter Sloan).

Again in five play up games we lost a punter and one every down player (who later came back to play that year). I can't think that is an unusually high number.
Including the Oregon game, for which I produced an article showing a huge number of injuries, and the 1997 Wyoming game when multiple players were lost, and your 3 games, there were a huge number of injuries. If you can't see that, or think that is normal, then you really have no clue about the game. Sorry, but you just don't.

In the Iowa, you were able to determine that our star transfer QB and preseason all-American punter started? Please. Even just those 2 was a huge loss. Swogger had to wear a glove on his throwing hand for much of the season. Johnson was done for the season. Those were both significant injuries.

PlayerRep
Posts: 25190
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by PlayerRep » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:00 pm

Spanky2 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:53 pm
Player has forgotten more about football than I will learn. However, in this instance, I suspect he is aware he can’t prove his original premise, but isn’t prepared to concede.
I have already provided very good evidence and proof, and no one has come close to refuting any it. There have actually been more injuries in FBS games that I can recalled. Huge number. Very costly.

User avatar
AZGrizFan
eGriz Club
Posts: 24668
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by AZGrizFan » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:08 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:38 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:13 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:41 am
SaskGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:30 am


Yeah that last sentence needed some proof reading. What I meant to say was; By a comparison I didn't MEAN a comparison of various party's opinions, I meant an actual comparison using numbers and data.

Anecdotal stuff doesn't work for this particular discussion;

Jordan Johnson got hurt vs Wyoming, Reese Phillips didn't get hurt against UW
Reese Phillips got hurt vs Savannah State, Jordan Johnson didn't get hurt against Tennessee.

This is all meaningless without number crunching.
I provided some numbers. A ton of people got injured against Oregon. 3 starting qb's in 5 play up games not available for the next game.

Feel free to provide your own numbers that few players get hurt in play up games.
Okay, I only looked at the last 4 Play-Up games; UW(2017), Wyoming(2014), Tennessee(2011) and Iowa(2006).

I looked at who played in the play-up game and then whether they played in the next game and then whether they played in the game after that.

UW - David Shaw missed the blow out over Savannah State but played the week after.
Shane Moody appeared in neither of the next two games, don't know if that was injury or he fell out of favour.

Wyoming- Ben Weyer, Jordan Johnson, John Nguyen all missed the game against Central Washington but were back for South Dakota. Caleb Kidder appeared in neither of the next two games.

Tennessee - Matt Hermanson missed the next game against Cal Poly. Brett Kirschner, Bryce Carver, and Chris Bradford appeared in neither of the next two games. None of these four players were starters.

Iowa - Josh Swogger, David Haile, and Dan Carter missed the next game against SDSU but were back for Sac State (Swogger went 14-18, 221, 3TDS). Tyson Johnson and Chris Dyk did not appear in either of the next two games.

I realise that this doesn't mean that players didn't play hurt. To figure out if this is more or less than injury levels in FCS or play down games would take more effort/time than I can currently give. It seems to me that these levels of injury do not seem particularily high or out of proportion to any given Saturday.
This level of injury is very high. This proves my point. Look at Wyo. in 1997, That will further prove the point. Also, give us the report on the Oregon game. This further proves my point.

Tyson Johnson tore his ACL at Iowa and didn't play the rest of the season.
High relative to what? You’ve lost and you know it, PR.
Guns kill people like spoons make you fat.

User avatar
AZGrizFan
eGriz Club
Posts: 24668
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by AZGrizFan » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:09 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:00 pm
Spanky2 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:53 pm
Player has forgotten more about football than I will learn. However, in this instance, I suspect he is aware he can’t prove his original premise, but isn’t prepared to concede.
I have already provided very good evidence and proof, and no one has come close to refuting any it. There have actually been more injuries in FBS games that I can recalled. Huge number. Very costly.
OK, Trump. :) :lol:
Guns kill people like spoons make you fat.

grizindabox
eGriz Club
Posts: 15175
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by grizindabox » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:47 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:55 pm
Spanky2 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:43 pm
Well anyway, you get the idea. Bottom line, Player is wrong.😈
The information shows that I was absolutely right. As usual.
PR, did you go back through every game for the past 20 years and note all the injuries and then separate them up by opponent level....or did you only pick a few FBS games and use that as the basis for your argument?
One of the definitions of privilege is, thinking “the system works” because it worked FOR YOU.

User avatar
CDAGRIZ
eGriz Club
Posts: 16834
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:52 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by CDAGRIZ » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:40 pm

God dammit, can anyone, anyone at all, tell me how many injuries an indoor practice facility will cause? Specific pointer/flexor analysis is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Sam A. Blitz
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:45 pm

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by Sam A. Blitz » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:03 pm

You can get injured stepping off the bus... However, my experience is that you are more likely to get injured playing against bigger, faster, and stronger athletes than playing same level. Just from a linebacker's perspective, OL and RB's get to the 2nd level quicker and faster, with less interference, which just makes you more vulnerable. I know that it's even more brutal in the trenches. I still like a play-up game. Makes you a better player and is a good experience overall.

PlayerRep
Posts: 25190
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by PlayerRep » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:03 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:08 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:38 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:13 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:41 am


I provided some numbers. A ton of people got injured against Oregon. 3 starting qb's in 5 play up games not available for the next game.

Feel free to provide your own numbers that few players get hurt in play up games.
Okay, I only looked at the last 4 Play-Up games; UW(2017), Wyoming(2014), Tennessee(2011) and Iowa(2006).

I looked at who played in the play-up game and then whether they played in the next game and then whether they played in the game after that.

UW - David Shaw missed the blow out over Savannah State but played the week after.
Shane Moody appeared in neither of the next two games, don't know if that was injury or he fell out of favour.

Wyoming- Ben Weyer, Jordan Johnson, John Nguyen all missed the game against Central Washington but were back for South Dakota. Caleb Kidder appeared in neither of the next two games.

Tennessee - Matt Hermanson missed the next game against Cal Poly. Brett Kirschner, Bryce Carver, and Chris Bradford appeared in neither of the next two games. None of these four players were starters.

Iowa - Josh Swogger, David Haile, and Dan Carter missed the next game against SDSU but were back for Sac State (Swogger went 14-18, 221, 3TDS). Tyson Johnson and Chris Dyk did not appear in either of the next two games.

I realise that this doesn't mean that players didn't play hurt. To figure out if this is more or less than injury levels in FCS or play down games would take more effort/time than I can currently give. It seems to me that these levels of injury do not seem particularily high or out of proportion to any given Saturday.
This level of injury is very high. This proves my point. Look at Wyo. in 1997, That will further prove the point. Also, give us the report on the Oregon game. This further proves my point.

Tyson Johnson tore his ACL at Iowa and didn't play the rest of the season.
High relative to what? You’ve lost and you know it, PR.
High compared to FCS and play down games. It's not even a close call. I knew I was right all along, and now the additional evidence shows that I am righter.

PlayerRep
Posts: 25190
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Re: Indoor practice facility

Post by PlayerRep » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:05 pm

grizindabox wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:47 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:55 pm
Spanky2 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:43 pm
Well anyway, you get the idea. Bottom line, Player is wrong.😈
The information shows that I was absolutely right. As usual.
PR, did you go back through every game for the past 20 years and note all the injuries and then separate them up by opponent level....or did you only pick a few FBS games and use that as the basis for your argument?
I have played and watched the sport. I have talked to coach and AD's. I have sampled the other evidence and stats.

What have you done? I know you have done nothing.

Post Reply