Indoor practice facility

Get the low down on Griz/FCS Football
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Spanky2 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:35 am
As long as we play down most of our games against teams made up of little, slow, weak players, we will be fine with limited injuries. We should consider a Division 2 or NAIA Conference to join, although, teams like Montana Tech and Rocky do have some big, strong players that could hurt us.
The Oregon game is a problem. Do we show up or forfeit? Maybe play our starters only in the first quarter?
Or the Griz could schedule some soccer teams.
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getgrizzy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:27 pm
poorgriz wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:25 am
getgrizzy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:27 am
poorgriz wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:53 am


This. if the griz coaching staff really feels this way they need to recruit bigger, better players or get a better strength program. Pretty sure the MSU coaching staff isn't worried about getting beat up on when we take the field against Texas Tech, at least not any more worried about injuries than any other game. :roll:
The Griz coaches don’t go into Power 5 games thinking about getting hurt anymore than yours do. It’s just a simple matter of, “over time bigger, stronger players are going to injure smaller, weaker players.” It’s not like every single game or play there’s an injury to a FCS player. Or there’s five FCS injuries to two every game. But over a long period or large number of games injuries will trend this way. It’s self-evident, it’s logic, it’s common sense.
Jeebus, for the umpteenth time - I don't think this discrepancy is nearly what you all think it is. And again, if that's a real think then you need to get bigger stronger players. The only argument I see here on the other side has to do with depth, and the scholly limited team getting worn down which could lead to mistakes in technique, etc. potentially leading to higher risk of injury later in the game. No idea if stats back that up. I made the point above, I think the starters for MSU are close to the same size across the board as the New England Patriots.
I don’t think the discrepancy is great. It doesn’t have to be. Good to see that you can recognize that there is a discrepancy. Now you just need to apply physics, logic, common sense and you’re up to speed.

The more FCS teams play Power 5 teams instead of fellow FCS teams the more they’ll get injured. This is due to the reasons I have given and we can add your reasons (depth, scholarships>>>worn down) too.
Yup, it seems so obvious.
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AZGrizFan wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:37 pm
kemajic wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:33 pm
grizindabox wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:41 pm
getgrizzy wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:55 pm


Yes, that’s true, too. But that doesn’t replace the fact that I pointed out and poorgriz, unintentionally, added. All those factors increase the possibility of injury. There are laws of physics that mathematically work this out.
Curious, how much do those factors increase the chance of injury? 5%? 10%? >.0001%? My guess, all these factors that you and others are trotting out are insignificant when determining the probabilities of a player getting injured playing against a FBS team vs playing against a FCS team.
I can align with that. There is no credible data to suggest otherwise.
Yes there is, dammit. PR saw somebody get injured once!
Also, I played against alot of guys who went to the NFL, so I know what's it like to hit them, get hit by them, and wave at them as they go by (that can result in wind burn). Okay, who played against the leading rusher in the country, two years? Who played against and defended one of the original Hogs for the Redskins? Who played against the runner up for the Heisman? Who played against tackled at least 5 running backs who played in the NFL? Does anyone think it's fun and easy to defend and tackle a Hog? Who played on a team who won the Lambert Trophy over Penn St, when Franco Harris and Lydell Mitchell were the running backs? You're right, no one we know. Ha.
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PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:16 pm
AZGrizFan wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:37 pm
kemajic wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:33 pm
grizindabox wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:41 pm


Curious, how much do those factors increase the chance of injury? 5%? 10%? >.0001%? My guess, all these factors that you and others are trotting out are insignificant when determining the probabilities of a player getting injured playing against a FBS team vs playing against a FCS team.
I can align with that. There is no credible data to suggest otherwise.
Yes there is, dammit. PR saw somebody get injured once!
Also, I played against alot of guys who went to the NFL, so I know what's it like to hit them, get hit by them, and wave at them as they go by (that can result in wind burn). Okay, who played against the leading rusher in the country, two years? Who played against and defended one of the original Hogs for the Redskins? Who played against the runner up for the Heisman? Who played against tackled at least 5 running backs who played in the NFL? Does anyone think it's fun and easy to defend and tackle a Hog? Who played on a team who won the Lambert Trophy over Penn St, when Franco Harris and Lydell Mitchell were the running backs? You're right, no one we know. Ha.
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grizindabox wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:21 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:16 pm
AZGrizFan wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:37 pm
kemajic wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:33 pm

I can align with that. There is no credible data to suggest otherwise.
Yes there is, dammit. PR saw somebody get injured once!
Also, I played against alot of guys who went to the NFL, so I know what's it like to hit them, get hit by them, and wave at them as they go by (that can result in wind burn). Okay, who played against the leading rusher in the country, two years? Who played against and defended one of the original Hogs for the Redskins? Who played against the runner up for the Heisman? Who played against tackled at least 5 running backs who played in the NFL? Does anyone think it's fun and easy to defend and tackle a Hog? Who played on a team who won the Lambert Trophy over Penn St, when Franco Harris and Lydell Mitchell were the running backs? You're right, no one we know. Ha.
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How many NFL guys have you played football against?
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PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:33 pm
grizindabox wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:21 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:16 pm
AZGrizFan wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:37 pm


Yes there is, dammit. PR saw somebody get injured once!
Also, I played against alot of guys who went to the NFL, so I know what's it like to hit them, get hit by them, and wave at them as they go by (that can result in wind burn). Okay, who played against the leading rusher in the country, two years? Who played against and defended one of the original Hogs for the Redskins? Who played against the runner up for the Heisman? Who played against tackled at least 5 running backs who played in the NFL? Does anyone think it's fun and easy to defend and tackle a Hog? Who played on a team who won the Lambert Trophy over Penn St, when Franco Harris and Lydell Mitchell were the running backs? You're right, no one we know. Ha.
There is no doubt that you were an excellent football player. As you have outlined, you competed against many of the top players in the nation at the time. Apparently, you were not injured. How is that possible? Game, Set, Match. You lost.
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How many NFL guys have you played football against?
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PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:20 am
SoldierGriz wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:31 am
I think there is some evidence players actually heal up while playing down. Anyone got any anecdotes?
They do. They are more likely to be held out of those games if injured, and starters play less because the backups often play alot more.
Any specific anecdotes...names of players who healed up after starting, but not finishing a game?

Any anecdotes of players injured during a play down game?

What about 1s vs 2s in live scrimmages? Hope that never happens.
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Injuries after Oregon game in 2005. 12 injuries going into the next week. Who's going to be the first to say that UM always has 12 injuries of top players after the first game? Was it Raider who said he couldn't remember any injuries after the Oregon game?

"But that injury list is still pretty long.

The most important loss is linebacker Loren Utterback, a starter on the strong side. His father Brad confirmed on Tuesday that the 218-pound sophomore suffered a broken foot with around eight minutes left in the game. The Fort Benton product had surgery Monday, and will be out 6-8 weeks.

At Montana's weekly press conference, head coach Bobby Hauck noted 12 injuries, without giving specifics.

Hauck listed defensive tackle Alan Saenz, defensive end Mike Murphy, corners Quentin Jackson and Tuff Harris and receiver Jon Talmage as probable; safety Colt Anderson, defensive tackle Jesse Carlson and guard Jason Frink as questionable; and corner Chris Clark, running back JR Waller and Utterback doubtful; and safety Jake McCarthy, who was hurt on the opening kickoff, as out."

https://missoulian.com/sports/injuries- ... e8b9d.html
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CDAGRIZ
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Anyone know if an indoor practice facility leads to more injuries? Maybe the climate control gives a false sense of security and causes stingers, pointers, and flexors?
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Raider wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:26 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:17 am
Raider wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:14 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:37 am


My evidence is that multiple coaches and athletic directors believe that play-up games, especially against top teams, can lead to more injuries, and in fact some have led to more injuries; the injuries at Wyo. including Ah Yat which a UM AD told me may have kept the Griz from getting another national championship; various anecdotal evidence; and my having played 4 years of D-I football.

What's your counter evidence?

Again, do you think the Griz, as presently constituted, would have more injuries if they played a full schedule in the Pac-12? How about if the presently constituted UM played most of its games every year against Alabama or a similar quality team? Same number of injuries?
If your “evidence” is talking to coaches, then I would easily provide “evidence” the other way. I have had conversations with college coaches that have the exact opposite opinion. They hate “playing down” for this very reason.

It may be the mentality here (which again is why we are beat before we get off the bus), but you cannot say that thought process is universal amongst all coaches. That is just factually incorrect.
I call BS on most of your post. Also, UM playing up, is not the same as UM playing down. I truly can't believe how hard it is for some of you to focus on what is being discussed. Correct, I am not saying all coaches feel the same. I'm mainly talking about Griz coaches.
Call BS all you want. It’s pretty much your MO with anyone that disagrees with you. Could care less.

My conversation was not with a Griz coach, but a defensive coordinator at the FBS level. I’m not surprised that your opinion is based on conversations with Griz coaches, based upon the way these “play up” games have been approached in the past. Again, never seems to be an issue with schools like NDSU and EWU......wonder why that is.......
Why would an FBS coach be following injuries against FCS team? Don't think you had the right source.

How's your memory on not Griz injuries at Oregon? See recent post showing 12 injuries going into the week after the Oregon game, and a starting linebacker out for 2 months due to surgery.

Like I said, I call BS on some of your posts. I disagree with lots of people. I only call BS on the jokers who just make up stuff, like you. Your MO is just making up stuff.
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PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:02 pm
reinell30 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:51 am
If you play the sport of football, you are subject to injury at any time during ANY game!
Yes, but does that have anything to do with the discussion of whether there are more injuries playing against bigger, stronger, faster teams?
Absolutely! I think the bigger, faster teams you have less injuries because you have to sub more. I believe the bigger, faster teams run up the score so their smaller guys can play. Only my opinion however. I am sure a study could or already has taken place to show if this is true.
I do not like to play up, as well as I don't like to play down, I just want to compare apples to apples at our level.
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I hate games against top tier FBS teams. So many negatives. Far outweigh any positives ... especially making money. I just as strongly hate games against D2 teams
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PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 pm
Injuries after Oregon game in 2005. 12 injuries going into the next week. Who's going to be the first to say that UM always has 12 injuries of top players after the first game? Was it Raider who said he couldn't remember any injuries after the Oregon game?

"But that injury list is still pretty long.

The most important loss is linebacker Loren Utterback, a starter on the strong side. His father Brad confirmed on Tuesday that the 218-pound sophomore suffered a broken foot with around eight minutes left in the game. The Fort Benton product had surgery Monday, and will be out 6-8 weeks.

At Montana's weekly press conference, head coach Bobby Hauck noted 12 injuries, without giving specifics.

Hauck listed defensive tackle Alan Saenz, defensive end Mike Murphy, corners Quentin Jackson and Tuff Harris and receiver Jon Talmage as probable; safety Colt Anderson, defensive tackle Jesse Carlson and guard Jason Frink as questionable; and corner Chris Clark, running back JR Waller and Utterback doubtful; and safety Jake McCarthy, who was hurt on the opening kickoff, as out."

https://missoulian.com/sports/injuries- ... e8b9d.html
How many played the next week? Almost half the list above is probable...

Any lists after play down games? Surely no starters injured in those, so probably not.
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SoldierGriz wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:24 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 pm
Injuries after Oregon game in 2005. 12 injuries going into the next week. Who's going to be the first to say that UM always has 12 injuries of top players after the first game? Was it Raider who said he couldn't remember any injuries after the Oregon game?

"But that injury list is still pretty long.

The most important loss is linebacker Loren Utterback, a starter on the strong side. His father Brad confirmed on Tuesday that the 218-pound sophomore suffered a broken foot with around eight minutes left in the game. The Fort Benton product had surgery Monday, and will be out 6-8 weeks.

At Montana's weekly press conference, head coach Bobby Hauck noted 12 injuries, without giving specifics.

Hauck listed defensive tackle Alan Saenz, defensive end Mike Murphy, corners Quentin Jackson and Tuff Harris and receiver Jon Talmage as probable; safety Colt Anderson, defensive tackle Jesse Carlson and guard Jason Frink as questionable; and corner Chris Clark, running back JR Waller and Utterback doubtful; and safety Jake McCarthy, who was hurt on the opening kickoff, as out."

https://missoulian.com/sports/injuries- ... e8b9d.html
How many played the next week? Almost half the list above is probable...

Any lists after play down games? Surely no starters injured in those, so probably not.
Feel free to do your own research. I did mine.

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CDAGRIZ wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:18 pm
Anyone know if an indoor practice facility leads to more injuries? Maybe the climate control gives a false sense of security and causes stingers, pointers, and flexors?
Not to mention it will never be cold and only artificially loud. How could that stand?
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PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:52 pm
SoldierGriz wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:24 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 pm
Injuries after Oregon game in 2005. 12 injuries going into the next week. Who's going to be the first to say that UM always has 12 injuries of top players after the first game? Was it Raider who said he couldn't remember any injuries after the Oregon game?

"But that injury list is still pretty long.

The most important loss is linebacker Loren Utterback, a starter on the strong side. His father Brad confirmed on Tuesday that the 218-pound sophomore suffered a broken foot with around eight minutes left in the game. The Fort Benton product had surgery Monday, and will be out 6-8 weeks.

At Montana's weekly press conference, head coach Bobby Hauck noted 12 injuries, without giving specifics.

Hauck listed defensive tackle Alan Saenz, defensive end Mike Murphy, corners Quentin Jackson and Tuff Harris and receiver Jon Talmage as probable; safety Colt Anderson, defensive tackle Jesse Carlson and guard Jason Frink as questionable; and corner Chris Clark, running back JR Waller and Utterback doubtful; and safety Jake McCarthy, who was hurt on the opening kickoff, as out."

https://missoulian.com/sports/injuries- ... e8b9d.html
How many played the next week? Almost half the list above is probable...

Any lists after play down games? Surely no starters injured in those, so probably not.
Feel free to do your own research. I did mine.

I enjoy blowing some of you out of the water.
LOL. One game. ONE f###[#] game. THAT’S the sum of your “research”?

Good thing you’re an attorney and not a detective.
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One part of this discussion revolves around the size (weight) discrepancy between an FCS team and an FBS team. Another part has to do with athletic ability and speed. Athletic ability is tough to quantify. So, let’s just say that by subjective measures, an FBS teams is four-star compared to three-star for FCS … and leave it at that. It’s hard to get speed data for players, and for some positions quickness is more important that flat-out, straight-ahead speed anyway.

The one thing was can get are the weights of the players. But a comparison is somewhat complicated because UM has not released a depth chart, while Oregon has. But we can make some educated guesses … and that’s what I have done. You might be surprised to learn -- I was -- that the Duck starting lineup is, on average, only a bit under 6 pounds heavier than my projected Griz “ones.”

So that means we need to look at matchups: offense against defense. That gets pretty interesting.

As it happens, the Griz have a weight advantage in their potential receivers compared to the defensive backs for Oregon: 8.25 pounds, on average. Of course, speed and quickness are crucial in those positions, but if the Griz receivers want to out-muscle the Duck defenders, they do have that advantage. Trouble is, the Oregon receivers have almost as much of an advantage over the Griz defenders: 7.75 pounds.

The tight end is a question mark, since we still don’t know how Hauck will use that position. So, I made that part of the seven-man front for the rushing game comparison. Glancing over the list, I figured the Griz OLine was bigger than the Oregon defensive front, but I was actually surprised that the difference was so much: 26.9 pounds, on average. Not bad.

But it is also in this part of the matchup where the Ducks -- with five guys well into the 300-pound range -- run away from the Griz in weight: 50.7 pounds, on average. Ouch! You can rotate defenders in as much as you want … that kind weight difference will still wear them all down.
Last edited by IdaGriz01 on Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bgbigdog wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:18 pm
CDAGRIZ wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:18 pm
Anyone know if an indoor practice facility leads to more injuries? Maybe the climate control gives a false sense of security and causes stingers, pointers, and flexors?
Not to mention it will never be cold and only artificially loud. How could that stand?
Good point. Honestly, practicing in 68 degrees and then playing in 18 degrees is a good way to sprain a taint.
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PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:52 pm
SoldierGriz wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:24 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 pm
Injuries after Oregon game in 2005. 12 injuries going into the next week. Who's going to be the first to say that UM always has 12 injuries of top players after the first game? Was it Raider who said he couldn't remember any injuries after the Oregon game?

"But that injury list is still pretty long.

The most important loss is linebacker Loren Utterback, a starter on the strong side. His father Brad confirmed on Tuesday that the 218-pound sophomore suffered a broken foot with around eight minutes left in the game. The Fort Benton product had surgery Monday, and will be out 6-8 weeks.

At Montana's weekly press conference, head coach Bobby Hauck noted 12 injuries, without giving specifics.

Hauck listed defensive tackle Alan Saenz, defensive end Mike Murphy, corners Quentin Jackson and Tuff Harris and receiver Jon Talmage as probable; safety Colt Anderson, defensive tackle Jesse Carlson and guard Jason Frink as questionable; and corner Chris Clark, running back JR Waller and Utterback doubtful; and safety Jake McCarthy, who was hurt on the opening kickoff, as out."

https://missoulian.com/sports/injuries- ... e8b9d.html
How many played the next week? Almost half the list above is probable...

Any lists after play down games? Surely no starters injured in those, so probably not.
Feel free to do your own research. I did mine.

I enjoy blowing some of you out of the water.
Hey man, I am just asking questions. You are posting the "evidence." It's good work BTW. Keep it coming.
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PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 pm
Injuries after Oregon game in 2005. 12 injuries going into the next week. Who's going to be the first to say that UM always has 12 injuries of top players after the first game? Was it Raider who said he couldn't remember any injuries after the Oregon game?

"But that injury list is still pretty long.

The most important loss is linebacker Loren Utterback, a starter on the strong side. His father Brad confirmed on Tuesday that the 218-pound sophomore suffered a broken foot with around eight minutes left in the game. The Fort Benton product had surgery Monday, and will be out 6-8 weeks.

At Montana's weekly press conference, head coach Bobby Hauck noted 12 injuries, without giving specifics.

Hauck listed defensive tackle Alan Saenz, defensive end Mike Murphy, corners Quentin Jackson and Tuff Harris and receiver Jon Talmage as probable; safety Colt Anderson, defensive tackle Jesse Carlson and guard Jason Frink as questionable; and corner Chris Clark, running back JR Waller and Utterback doubtful; and safety Jake McCarthy, who was hurt on the opening kickoff, as out."

https://missoulian.com/sports/injuries- ... e8b9d.html
And immediately after the Wyoming game in 2014, virtually ZERO injuries. Same starters two games later against USD.
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