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meanwhile, hong kong burns...

A

argh!

Well-known member
DONOR
every weekend now for over 2 months. scrolling down the linked article is a bit surreal, what with the protestors helping each other out with fresh t-shirts and metro tickets being given out so they can get home unidentified. another oddity is that despite molotov cocktails and the like being thrown, there isn't any looting, even though some of these places where the protests are happening are wall-to-wall luxury brand shops.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3021301/mong-kok-march-kicks-warnings-zero-tolerance-violence-pro
 
and it's your fault: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201908/03/WS5d44c685a310cf3e35563abb.html
 
It's interesting. Wonder where it will go/end. Trump is more of an America First guy, with some exceptions, and probably doesn't want to tangle with Chinese leadership while the trade and related things are going on. Not saying I agree with him, but I can see the issues there. It's not clear to me where HK and the protesters can get meaningful support

China wouldn't be able to crack down, or crack down violently, without the whole world seeing. HK is not like T Square and within China where media and other things are controlled.

I'll see a bunch of my HK buddies at the Rugby World Cup in Japan in a month. Will be interesting to hear what they say. The grandfather of one of them was the head of HK in the British days.
 
From what I've seen/heard, the Red Chinese economy is fragile and on the ragged edge right now. The tariffs are having a negative effect on Eleven(XI) and his system, and he knows damn well that if he goes in Tiananmen style in Hong Kong, the American market is gone. Both 'sides of the isle' would turn on Red China, sending it into an economic death spiral, social revolt, and the end of Communist rule in China. The thin veneer of the Communist/Socialist/leftist myth would disappear, and the world would see what it really is, a lie. Read the novel 'Animal Farm' for an animated version. Eleven wants to preserve his power, so he won't do Tiananmen 2.0. Soviet Russia lasted about 72 years before imploding. Red China is on 70. Time is about up. The people of Hong Kong want no part of Red China. No right thinking human being would voluntarily submit to that bullshit. Perhaps a Singapore solution would be a practical solution. However, Red China is hell bent on being the next world superpower, so stand by.
 
PlayerRep said:
It's interesting. Wonder where it will go/end. Trump is more of an America First guy, with some exceptions, and probably doesn't want to tangle with Chinese leadership while the trade and related things are going on. Not saying I agree with him, but I can see the issues there. It's not clear to me where HK and the protesters can get meaningful support

China wouldn't be able to crack down, or crack down violently, without the whole world seeing. HK is not like T Square and within China where media and other things are controlled.

I'll see a bunch of my HK buddies at the Rugby World Cup in Japan in a month. Will be interesting to hear what they say. The grandfather of one of them was the head of HK in the British days.
Click to expand...

can't really see a great ending to the whole hong kong saga. they are dependent on the mainland for basics like water, so true independence is a pipe dream. doubt any kind of big people's liberation army crackdown, though, the logistics would be too difficult. plus, the chinese army, for all it's flexing, has always had it's ass kicked any time they were fighting anyone but dirt farmer civilians. the propaganda machine on the mainland is in high gear, though. i've got friends posting pro-commie idiocies on wechat, even the more liberal ones. the ccp has brainwashed them all into firmly believing hong kong, taiwan, and the entire south china sea belong to them, despite the people actually living in those places wanting nothing to do with the commies.

authoritarianism sucks.
 
Trump getting more vocal and supportive on Hong Kong. From today's NY Times:

"President Trump has shifted his stance on the unrest in Hong Kong in recent days to show greater solidarity with the pro-democracy protesters after coming to view the issue as a point of leverage in trade negotiations with China.

For months, Trump administration officials described the Hong Kong uprising as an internal matter for China, aware of how delicate the issue is for President Xi Jinping and other Communist Party officials. With tensions already high between the two nations and trade talks stalled, the administration chose to tread lightly.

But as the protests have dragged on, advisers to Mr. Trump have succeeded in making the case that wading into the issue could prove necessary — and advantageous — to the United States as it tries to push Beijing to accede to its trade terms.

After previously saying Hong Kong was a “very tough situation” that was up to Chinese leaders to handle, Mr. Trump has more recently called on those leaders to offer a “humane” response and urged Mr. Xi to engage in dialogue with the protesters."
 
PlayerRep said:
Trump getting more vocal and supportive on Hong Kong. From today's NY Times:

"President Trump has shifted his stance on the unrest in Hong Kong in recent days to show greater solidarity with the pro-democracy protesters after coming to view the issue as a point of leverage in trade negotiations with China.

For months, Trump administration officials described the Hong Kong uprising as an internal matter for China, aware of how delicate the issue is for President Xi Jinping and other Communist Party officials. With tensions already high between the two nations and trade talks stalled, the administration chose to tread lightly.

But as the protests have dragged on, advisers to Mr. Trump have succeeded in making the case that wading into the issue could prove necessary — and advantageous — to the United States as it tries to push Beijing to accede to its trade terms.

After previously saying Hong Kong was a “very tough situation” that was up to Chinese leaders to handle, Mr. Trump has more recently called on those leaders to offer a “humane” response and urged Mr. Xi to engage in dialogue with the protesters."
Click to expand...

china adds tariffs, and then trump adds many more today. supposedly called xi jinping his 'enemy', as per the washington post. also says u.s. businesses should look to exit china. i hope what he is saying is true, but he's prone to spewing lies and getting away with it.
 
I see that while Trump hasn't been overly strong on supporting Hong Kong, until recent statements, Europe has been even worse. Little or no support coming out of Europe. There are concerns that Europe is undercutting the US and Trump on China matters.

Trump is right on most of his reasons for taking on China. It's about time someone did. I don't know enough to know if his tactics and strategy, especially all of the tariff stuff and rhetoric, are correct or good.

If this is still going on when/if Trump is reelected, China will fold quickly. They are just trying to wait out Trump now, from what I've read. Getting quiet support, or at least no opposition, from Europe, helps China.
 
PlayerRep said:
I see that while Trump hasn't been overly strong on supporting Hong Kong, until recent statements, Europe has been even worse. Little or no support coming out of Europe. There are concerns that Europe is undercutting the US and Trump on China matters.

Trump is right on most of his reasons for taking on China. It's about time someone did. I don't know enough to know if his tactics and strategy, especially all of the tariff stuff and rhetoric, are correct or good.

If this is still going on when/if Trump is reelected, China will fold quickly. They are just trying to wait out Trump now, from what I've read. Getting quiet support, or at least no opposition, from Europe, helps China.
Click to expand...

sounds like beijing is just going to use soft power on businesses in hong kong to get them to harass their own employees for protesting, and try to wait out the protests.

cosco apparently had a big opening in shanghai the other day. to me that says they don't have much in terms of 'corporate values', an oxymoron, i know. also, any 'foreign' business, including cosco, by now must assume that in the long run they are going to get the nationalistic boot kicking them out of the country some day. they must be figuring they can still make enough money out of the chinese to cover their later losses, when they are squeezed out.

what a great place china would be to do business, were it not for the ccp, and their need to control everything in order to retain power. it's becoming like north korea west there. "dear leader xi can do no wrong", the people are told, over and over every day. i doubt they all buy it, but have to pretend to, or else they could get 'in trouble', at many different levels. i can totally understand young hong kongers not wanting to have to live like that.
 
nobody will read this, but it seems pretty accurate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/30/opinion/trump-china-trade-war.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
 
argh! said:
nobody will read this, but it seems pretty accurate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/30/opinion/trump-china-trade-war.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Click to expand...

I read it. As I had said previously, Trump is right on this.

Wall St Journal is supporting Hong Kong. Has an editorial yesterday.

"Beijing can’t tolerate our editorials or protests in Hong Kong because they expose the Communist Party’s lack of democratic legitimacy. Ms. Lam and the police claim they want to preserve order and rule of law in Hong Kong, but they’re the ones eroding both. If there’s more unrest this weekend and beyond, the fault lies with Beijing and its refusal to honor its promise to Hong Kong and Britain of “one country, two systems” through 2047. The world needs to speak up for Hong Kong and its brave freedom fighters."

My Dartmouth and rugby friend, Paul Gigot, is the editors of WSJ editorial page. Gigsy was a terrific athlete and great guy.

"Paul Gigot is the editorial page editor and vice president of The Wall Street Journal, a position he has held since 2001. He is responsible for the newspaper's editorials, op-ed articles and Leisure & Arts criticism and directs the editorial pages of the Journal's Asian and European editions and the OpinionJournal.com Web site. He is also the host of the weekly half-hour news program, the Journal Editorial Report, on the Fox News Channel.

Mr. Gigot joined the Journal in 1980 as a reporter in Chicago, and in 1982 he became the Journal's Asia correspondent, based in Hong Kong. He won an Overseas Press Club award for his reporting on the Philippines. In 1984, he was named the first editorial page editor of The Asian Wall Street Journal, based in Hong Kong. In 1987, he was assigned to Washington, where he contributed editorials and a weekly column on politics, "Potomac Watch," which won the 2000 Pulitzer Prize for commentary.
Mr. Gigot is a summa cum laude graduate of Dartmouth College, where he was chairman of the daily student newspaper."

https://www.wsj.com/news/author/paul-gigot
 
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
nobody will read this, but it seems pretty accurate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/30/opinion/trump-china-trade-war.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Click to expand...

I read it. As I had said previously, Trump is right on this.

Wall St Journal is supporting Hong Kong. Has an editorial yesterday.

"Beijing can’t tolerate our editorials or protests in Hong Kong because they expose the Communist Party’s lack of democratic legitimacy. Ms. Lam and the police claim they want to preserve order and rule of law in Hong Kong, but they’re the ones eroding both. If there’s more unrest this weekend and beyond, the fault lies with Beijing and its refusal to honor its promise to Hong Kong and Britain of “one country, two systems” through 2047. The world needs to speak up for Hong Kong and its brave freedom fighters."

My Dartmouth and rugby friend, Paul Gigot, is the editors of WSJ editorial page. Gigsy was a terrific athlete and great guy.

"Paul Gigot is the editorial page editor and vice president of The Wall Street Journal, a position he has held since 2001. He is responsible for the newspaper's editorials, op-ed articles and Leisure & Arts criticism and directs the editorial pages of the Journal's Asian and European editions and the OpinionJournal.com Web site. He is also the host of the weekly half-hour news program, the Journal Editorial Report, on the Fox News Channel.

Mr. Gigot joined the Journal in 1980 as a reporter in Chicago, and in 1982 he became the Journal's Asia correspondent, based in Hong Kong. He won an Overseas Press Club award for his reporting on the Philippines. In 1984, he was named the first editorial page editor of The Asian Wall Street Journal, based in Hong Kong. In 1987, he was assigned to Washington, where he contributed editorials and a weekly column on politics, "Potomac Watch," which won the 2000 Pulitzer Prize for commentary.
Mr. Gigot is a summa cum laude graduate of Dartmouth College, where he was chairman of the daily student newspaper."

https://www.wsj.com/news/author/paul-gigot
Click to expand...

sounds like the residents are largely for the more radical protesters, and pissed at the police, who they think are the ones committing the more serious violence. worse, the cops seem to be attacking random people, as well as protesters. saw a video earlier of no-i.d., faces covered cops beating the crap out of pleading, random people in a subway car.

the wsj just had a writer denied a work visa renewal for china, because he wrote an article about the questionable wealth of a member of xi's family, who is an australian citizen. xi was not a focus of the article, but... dear leader had his feelings hurt, just like happens when someone compares him to winnie the pooh (now censored in china). as far as dictators go, he seems to be pretty bad at his job, and risks killing the golden goose.

tell gigsy i said 'hi' the next time you see him.
 
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
nobody will read this, but it seems pretty accurate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/30/opinion/trump-china-trade-war.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Click to expand...

I read it. As I had said previously, Trump is right on this.

Wall St Journal is supporting Hong Kong. Has an editorial yesterday.

"Beijing can’t tolerate our editorials or protests in Hong Kong because they expose the Communist Party’s lack of democratic legitimacy. Ms. Lam and the police claim they want to preserve order and rule of law in Hong Kong, but they’re the ones eroding both. If there’s more unrest this weekend and beyond, the fault lies with Beijing and its refusal to honor its promise to Hong Kong and Britain of “one country, two systems” through 2047. The world needs to speak up for Hong Kong and its brave freedom fighters."

My Dartmouth and rugby friend, Paul Gigot, is the editors of WSJ editorial page. Gigsy was a terrific athlete and great guy.

"Paul Gigot is the editorial page editor and vice president of The Wall Street Journal, a position he has held since 2001. He is responsible for the newspaper's editorials, op-ed articles and Leisure & Arts criticism and directs the editorial pages of the Journal's Asian and European editions and the OpinionJournal.com Web site. He is also the host of the weekly half-hour news program, the Journal Editorial Report, on the Fox News Channel.

Mr. Gigot joined the Journal in 1980 as a reporter in Chicago, and in 1982 he became the Journal's Asia correspondent, based in Hong Kong. He won an Overseas Press Club award for his reporting on the Philippines. In 1984, he was named the first editorial page editor of The Asian Wall Street Journal, based in Hong Kong. In 1987, he was assigned to Washington, where he contributed editorials and a weekly column on politics, "Potomac Watch," which won the 2000 Pulitzer Prize for commentary.
Mr. Gigot is a summa cum laude graduate of Dartmouth College, where he was chairman of the daily student newspaper."

https://www.wsj.com/news/author/paul-gigot
Click to expand...

sounds like the residents are largely for the more radical protesters, and pissed at the police, who they think are the ones committing the more serious violence. worse, the cops seem to be attacking random people, as well as protesters. saw a video earlier of no-i.d., faces covered cops beating the crap out of pleading, random people in a subway car.

the wsj just had a writer denied a work visa renewal for china, because he wrote an article about the questionable wealth of a member of xi's family, who is an australian citizen. xi was not a focus of the article, but... dear leader had his feelings hurt, just like happens when someone compares him to winnie the pooh (now censored in china). as far as dictators go, he seems to be pretty bad at his job, and risks killing the golden goose.

tell gigsy i said 'hi' the next time you see him.
Click to expand...

K. I expect to see him at the Dartmouth/Princeton game in Yankee stadium in early Nov., if not at Homecoming in Hanover against Yale in early October. I'll tell him hi.
 
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
PlayerRep said:
argh! said:
nobody will read this, but it seems pretty accurate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/30/opinion/trump-china-trade-war.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Click to expand...

I read it. As I had said previously, Trump is right on this.

Wall St Journal is supporting Hong Kong. Has an editorial yesterday.

"Beijing can’t tolerate our editorials or protests in Hong Kong because they expose the Communist Party’s lack of democratic legitimacy. Ms. Lam and the police claim they want to preserve order and rule of law in Hong Kong, but they’re the ones eroding both. If there’s more unrest this weekend and beyond, the fault lies with Beijing and its refusal to honor its promise to Hong Kong and Britain of “one country, two systems” through 2047. The world needs to speak up for Hong Kong and its brave freedom fighters."

My Dartmouth and rugby friend, Paul Gigot, is the editors of WSJ editorial page. Gigsy was a terrific athlete and great guy.

"Paul Gigot is the editorial page editor and vice president of The Wall Street Journal, a position he has held since 2001. He is responsible for the newspaper's editorials, op-ed articles and Leisure & Arts criticism and directs the editorial pages of the Journal's Asian and European editions and the OpinionJournal.com Web site. He is also the host of the weekly half-hour news program, the Journal Editorial Report, on the Fox News Channel.

Mr. Gigot joined the Journal in 1980 as a reporter in Chicago, and in 1982 he became the Journal's Asia correspondent, based in Hong Kong. He won an Overseas Press Club award for his reporting on the Philippines. In 1984, he was named the first editorial page editor of The Asian Wall Street Journal, based in Hong Kong. In 1987, he was assigned to Washington, where he contributed editorials and a weekly column on politics, "Potomac Watch," which won the 2000 Pulitzer Prize for commentary.
Mr. Gigot is a summa cum laude graduate of Dartmouth College, where he was chairman of the daily student newspaper."

https://www.wsj.com/news/author/paul-gigot
Click to expand...

sounds like the residents are largely for the more radical protesters, and pissed at the police, who they think are the ones committing the more serious violence. worse, the cops seem to be attacking random people, as well as protesters. saw a video earlier of no-i.d., faces covered cops beating the crap out of pleading, random people in a subway car.

the wsj just had a writer denied a work visa renewal for china, because he wrote an article about the questionable wealth of a member of xi's family, who is an australian citizen. xi was not a focus of the article, but... dear leader had his feelings hurt, just like happens when someone compares him to winnie the pooh (now censored in china). as far as dictators go, he seems to be pretty bad at his job, and risks killing the golden goose.

tell gigsy i said 'hi' the next time you see him.
Click to expand...

K. I expect to see him at the Dartmouth/Princeton game in Yankee stadium in early Nov., if not at Homecoming in Hanover against Yale in early October. I'll tell him hi.
Click to expand...

how was ol' gigsy? or are you now like the nba, instructed not to commented on anything related to hong kong, because your company does business with china?
 
holy shit: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3037453/hong-kong-protests-city-braces-third-straight-day-travel
 
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