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Musings on Next Season

citygriz

Well-known member
Well, it sure will be different! Whereas before we had several returnees mixed in with a few newcomers, this year the roster has seen a significant shakeup. By my reckoning, eight players from last year are no longer on the roster, while at least eight new players join the team. That means more than half the roster has turned over. Which leads me to speculate:

--Have we found a gem in Jaxon Nap? Programs at the mid-major level depend on finding that overlooked high school player that blossoms at the next level, like a Steph Curry or a John Stockton, or even more recently the Groves brothers. Nap developed late and might be that steal we've been looking for.

--DII Players: Many players who excel at one level often excel just as well at a higher level, given the chance. Exhibit A right now is Derrick White, lighting it up right now both for the Celtics and his wallet, who started out at Division II Colorado Springs. Could Laolu Oke and Jonathan Brown both excel at a higher level?

--On the women's side, we just scored a major recruit in Macey Huard, who in part signed on because she wanted to play alongside her sister. Could the same dynamic work for the Dischon brothers? Could they be dynamite playing together?

--And any other surprises among the newcomers? I see both Isaiah Kerr and Rhett Reynolds more as projects than immediate contributors, but could we be surprised? DeCuire is not hesitant to play freshmen if he feels they have the talent to step in immediately.

--And finally, what about the returnees? Will Bannan thrive with help on the boards? Will Vazquez step up now that Beasley is gone?

I don't know when there have been so many questions about the next season. And yet it's also my feeling that this program had become stuck after a couple of particularly discouraging recruiting seasons, and that a major change needed to be made.

I can hardly wait.
 
citay said:
Well, it sure will be different! Whereas before we had several returnees mixed in with a few newcomers, this year the roster has seen a significant shakeup. By my reckoning, eight players from last year are no longer on the roster, while at least eight new players join the team. That means more than half the roster has turned over. Which leads me to speculate:

--Have we found a gem in Jaxon Nap? Programs at the mid-major level depend on finding that overlooked high school player that blossoms at the next level, like a Steph Curry or a John Stockton, or even more recently the Groves brothers. Nap developed late and might be that steal we've been looking for.

--DII Players: Many players who excel at one level often excel just as well at a higher level, given the chance. Exhibit A right now is Derrick White, lighting it up right now both for the Celtics and his wallet, who started out at Division II Colorado Springs. Could Laolu Oke and Jonathan Brown both excel at a higher level?

--On the women's side, we just scored a major recruit in Macey Huard, who in part signed on because she wanted to play alongside her sister. Could the same dynamic work for the Dischon brothers? Could they be dynamite playing together?

--And any other surprises among the newcomers? I see both Isaiah Kerr and Rhett Reynolds more as projects than immediate contributors, but could we be surprised? DeCuire is not hesitant to play freshmen if he feels they have the talent to step in immediately.

--And finally, what about the returnees? Will Bannan thrive with help on the boards? Will Vazquez step up now that Beasley is gone?

I don't know when there have been so many questions about the next season. And yet it's also my feeling that this program had become stuck after a couple of particularly discouraging recruiting seasons, and that a major change needed to be made.

I can hardly wait.

Me too! Anticipation and speculation about the upcoming season is a great part of being a sports and Griz fan.
 
I agree. I think we're gonna have a good team next year. I love the talent we brought in, and I think it will be a 2 horse race between us and the cats. Only thing that has me slightly worried so far is we got a tough non-conference schedule that includes NDSU, SDSU, Xavier, Air Force, and Troy, plus god only knows what else that we haven't uncovered yet. We'll likely have at least 1 more if not 2 more money games to be announced, so non-conference will be a great test for us going into Big Sky play. This will be a team that competes for the conference championship.
 
Can they develop the chemistry of the Oguine/Moorhead/Pridgett years? For whatever reason that team bond was lacking the last few seasons. Let's hope it comes this fall.
 
Hoops watcher said:
Can they develop the chemistry of the Oguine/Moorhead/Pridgett years? For whatever reason that team bond was lacking the last few seasons. Let's hope it comes this fall.

Chemistry. Body Language. Both were horrible the past few years. Not sure what to attribute it to.
 
citay said:
Well, it sure will be different! Whereas before we had several returnees mixed in with a few newcomers, this year the roster has seen a significant shakeup. By my reckoning, eight players from last year are no longer on the roster, while at least eight new players join the team. That means more than half the roster has turned over. Which leads me to speculate:

--Have we found a gem in Jaxon Nap? Programs at the mid-major level depend on finding that overlooked high school player that blossoms at the next level, like a Steph Curry or a John Stockton, or even more recently the Groves brothers. Nap developed late and might be that steal we've been looking for.

--DII Players: Many players who excel at one level often excel just as well at a higher level, given the chance. Exhibit A right now is Derrick White, lighting it up right now both for the Celtics and his wallet, who started out at Division II Colorado Springs. Could Laolu Oke and Jonathan Brown both excel at a higher level?

--On the women's side, we just scored a major recruit in Macey Huard, who in part signed on because she wanted to play alongside her sister. Could the same dynamic work for the Dischon brothers? Could they be dynamite playing together?

--And any other surprises among the newcomers? I see both Isaiah Kerr and Rhett Reynolds more as projects than immediate contributors, but could we be surprised? DeCuire is not hesitant to play freshmen if he feels they have the talent to step in immediately.

--And finally, what about the returnees? Will Bannan thrive with help on the boards? Will Vazquez step up now that Beasley is gone?

I don't know when there have been so many questions about the next season. And yet it's also my feeling that this program had become stuck after a couple of particularly discouraging recruiting seasons, and that a major change needed to be made.

I can hardly wait.

Interesting information. The starters will be? Bannon, Whitney, Anderson, Martin, Vasquez, or do you see a newer lineup?
 
Good post, citay. I like the addition of the guys who can rebound and bang too, as I know you do too.

I wish I knew why several of the guys left. Just curious. I don't think some of them will find a better home, but hopefully more playing time. It will be fun to the follow the Davis and PSU transfers.
 
I think the starting 5 will be Whitney, Martin, Thomas, Bannan, Anderson. Brown, Oke, Vazquez, and Nap I believe will be the 4 guys in the regular rotation.
 
Griz til I die said:
I think the starting 5 will be Whitney, Martin, Thomas, Bannan, Anderson. Brown, Oke, Vazquez, and Nap I believe will be the 4 guys in the regular rotation.

I can see this being the rotation also. But I think we might see Oke start and Mack come off the bench. I think they are similar players but Oke provides more offense. Also with Mack's propensity to get in foul trouble coming off the bench might be better than playing 3 minutes and sitting the half after picking up two quick fouls. The thing that is great about Mack is that he is such a team guy that "starting" or not starting doesn't seem to really matter to him. He appears to always accept pretty much any role he has been asked to fill. Even though Travis isn't a zone guy I would love to see a rotation with three of the four big guys and play a little extended 2-3 or 1-3-1 zone. Just even for a few minutes it could disrupt offensive flow and limit fouls.
 
Admittedly outside of a few clips, I have never seen D. Thomas play, but I am confused why people think he is a small forward (and while I didn’t spend a ton of time looking, I did see various CSU game highlight clips, but outside of the Michigan clips it tough to find him doing a lot. But it makes sense as he only played 16mpg).

KenPom’s algorithm says he played all of his minutes the last two years at the 5. Torvik’s says last year his was a stretch 4 and the year before PF/C. Evan Miya says he was a 3.9 last year and a 4.4 the year before.

Even in the clips, outside of being able to make 3’s is there anything you see from his body type or fluidity that makes you think he can play the 3 or defend opposing small forwards?

I think he is a great pick-up, I just don’t see him as a 3.
 
GrizBall said:
Admittedly outside of a few clips, I have never seen D. Thomas play, but I am confused why people think he is a small forward (and while I didn’t spend a ton of time looking, I did see various CSU game highlight clips, but outside of the Michigan clips it tough to find him doing a lot. But it makes sense as he only played 16mpg).

KenPom’s algorithm says he played all of his minutes the last two years at the 5. Torvik’s says last year his was a stretch 4 and the year before PF/C. Evan Miya says he was a 3.9 last year and a 4.4 the year before.

Even in the clips, outside of being able to make 3’s is there anything you see from his body type or fluidity that makes you think he can play the 3 or defend opposing small forwards?

I think he is a great pick-up, I just don’t see him as a 3.

I agree. I think that Thomas and Bannan start at the 4/5 with Anderson and Oke off the bench. This rotation also give quite a bit of flexibility of lineup.
 
Griz til I die said:
I think the starting 5 will be Whitney, Martin, Thomas, Bannan, Anderson. Brown, Oke, Vazquez, and Nap I believe will be the 4 guys in the regular rotation.

I would find this line-up severely lacking 3Pt shooting and playmaking/ball handling

Whitney 28%. 2.1apg
Martin 33%. 0.8
Thomas 41% 1.0
Bannan 35% 1.6
Anderson 0% 0.4

Also keep in mind that Thomas played with some of the best playmakers in the entire country during his time at CSU. Roddy is a potential 1st round NBA pick this year and averaged 3apg. Stevens was a 3x All Mountain West selection and averaged 4.7 Apg. Thomas was the 4th or 5th option at best on those teams and got plenty of clean looks that he likely won’t get on this team.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
GrizBall said:
Admittedly outside of a few clips, I have never seen D. Thomas play, but I am confused why people think he is a small forward (and while I didn’t spend a ton of time looking, I did see various CSU game highlight clips, but outside of the Michigan clips it tough to find him doing a lot. But it makes sense as he only played 16mpg).

KenPom’s algorithm says he played all of his minutes the last two years at the 5. Torvik’s says last year his was a stretch 4 and the year before PF/C. Evan Miya says he was a 3.9 last year and a 4.4 the year before.

Even in the clips, outside of being able to make 3’s is there anything you see from his body type or fluidity that makes you think he can play the 3 or defend opposing small forwards?

I think he is a great pick-up, I just don’t see him as a 3.

I agree. I think that Thomas and Bannan start at the 4/5 with Anderson and Oke off the bench. This rotation also give quite a bit of flexibility of lineup.

A 2-3 zone with 3 of these 4 on the back line and Whitney and Martin up top could wreak havoc if ever implemented.
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
GrizBall said:
Admittedly outside of a few clips, I have never seen D. Thomas play, but I am confused why people think he is a small forward (and while I didn’t spend a ton of time looking, I did see various CSU game highlight clips, but outside of the Michigan clips it tough to find him doing a lot. But it makes sense as he only played 16mpg).

KenPom’s algorithm says he played all of his minutes the last two years at the 5. Torvik’s says last year his was a stretch 4 and the year before PF/C. Evan Miya says he was a 3.9 last year and a 4.4 the year before.

Even in the clips, outside of being able to make 3’s is there anything you see from his body type or fluidity that makes you think he can play the 3 or defend opposing small forwards?

I think he is a great pick-up, I just don’t see him as a 3.

I agree. I think that Thomas and Bannan start at the 4/5 with Anderson and Oke off the bench. This rotation also give quite a bit of flexibility of lineup.

Not much inside offensive punch from that pair off the bench other than the O glass How they develop the right O/D mixes lineup wise will something to watch. Consistent back court scoring is also iffy at this point. I'm thinking Martin has double digit potential. Can any of the incoming guards provide it?
 
Hoops watcher said:
HelenaHandBasket said:
I agree. I think that Thomas and Bannan start at the 4/5 with Anderson and Oke off the bench. This rotation also give quite a bit of flexibility of lineup.

I'm thinking Martin has double digit potential. Can any of the incoming guards provide it?

I think Martin’s off-season development will be one of the keys to the team’s success next year. He was kind of a 1-trick pony (3-pointers) but really wasn’t great at that (35%). He is very good FT shooter (82%) but only got to the line 28 times in 32 games and some of those were shooting the team’s technical foul shots. He also only got off 21 shots at the rim, which for someone with his skill and athleticism is not very good.

For the most part the mechanics on his 3’s are very solid and I would expect him to be closer to 38-40% next year, so that would get him closer to double-digits from his 6ppg last year. If he could be more aggressive at the rim that would give him more easy points and improve his 34FG%. It would also give him more FTs which would add to his point total.

As you pointed out, the scoring from guards may be iffy, but I think with the improvements stated above, Martin could easily give the team 10-12ppg which would be huge.
 
GrizBall said:
Hoops watcher said:
I'm thinking Martin has double digit potential. Can any of the incoming guards provide it?

I think Martin’s off-season development will be one of the keys to the team’s success next year. He was kind of a 1-trick pony (3-pointers) but really wasn’t great at that (35%). He is very good FT shooter (82%) but only got to the line 28 times in 32 games and some of those were shooting the team’s technical foul shots. He also only got off 21 shots at the rim, which for someone with his skill and athleticism is not very good.

For the most part the mechanics on his 3’s are very solid and I would expect him to be closer to 38-40% next year, so that would get him closer to double-digits from his 6ppg last year. If he could be more aggressive at the rim that would give him more easy points and improve his 34FG%. It would also give him more FTs which would add to his point total.

As you pointed out, the scoring from guards may be iffy, but I think with the improvements stated above, Martin could easily give the team 10-12ppg which would be huge.

Was thinking along the same lines. If they can get some sets to get some good looks at 3's perhaps that can open up the lane for Martin and others to find some space at the rim. Vasquez was deadly from 3 when he was open his first couple years, seemed to press last year (pressure from minimal PT?). The spacing has been mediocre at best recently and a dash of a competent outside game would help that a lot IMO.
 
Vazquez is a very good pure shooter who lost confidence. I’m fairly confident that he will get it back and will be a strong contributor for this team. I’m intrigued by the new faces and the chance for the Griz to have some good team chemistry.
 
Hoops watcher said:
Double post

I saw all of these positive expectations a few years back when the incoming players were going to do this and that. They all did what they were told from the sidelines. How did that work for the griz. We lost 8 players because they weren’t playing their game as a team, they were staged directed. Hope this coming year is different.
 
Jackieb125 said:
Hoops watcher said:
Double post

I saw all of these positive expectations a few years back when the incoming players were going to do this and that. They all did what they were told from the sidelines. How did that work for the griz. We lost 8 players because they weren’t playing their game as a team, they were staged directed. Hope this coming year is different.
:thumb:
 
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