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Can We Recruit Africa?

C

citygriz

Well-known member
Don't laugh.

Over the years, I've witnessed several trends in basketball: The emergence of European talent; the sophistication of defensive strategies; the ability to exploit the three-point line with outside marksmanship.

But the most recent?

It may be the emergence of Africa has a legitimate recruiting ground.

Not that the NBA hasn't had great players who were from Africa or whose parents were from Africa: Olajuwan and Mutombo come to mind immediately.

But today there are some 55 such players in the NBA. One is a kid who'll be a household name in two years, Jonathan Kuminga. Maybe you can guess which team he plays for. The same one as Andre Iguodala.

Maybe you noticed, Oregon has two kids on their roster from Africa, one from Mali, another from Cameroon. I believe Sac State had one such kid last night, Jonathan Komagum, from Africa via London.

It's a trend.

Are we on it?
 
Africa? Are you kidding me? We can’t even recruit the Midwest. The cost and time involved would drain our recruiting budget. Actually though Travis does have access to a private jet for West Coast recruiting. I don’t know if there are restrictions as too number of trips and who’s responsible for expenses.
 
citay said:
Don't laugh.

Over the years, I've witnessed several trends in basketball: The emergence of European talent; the sophistication of defensive strategies; the ability to exploit the three-point line with outside marksmanship.

But the most recent?

It may be the emergence of Africa has a legitimate recruiting ground.

Not that the NBA hasn't had great players who were from Africa or whose parents were from Africa: Olajuwan and Mutombo come to mind immediately.

But today there are some 55 such players in the NBA. One is a kid who'll be a household name in two years, Jonathan Kuminga. Maybe you can guess which team he plays for. The same one as Andre Iguodala.

Maybe you noticed, Oregon has two kids on their roster from Africa, one from Mali, another from Cameroon. I believe Sac State had one such kid last night, Jonathan Komagum, from Africa via London.

It's a trend.

Are we on it?
Click to expand...
I suspect academics and language barriers, not to mention religious and the usual cultural values would be hard for Montana, a school of maximum needs but minimum income. I doubt that is a priority.
 
citay said:
Don't laugh.

Over the years, I've witnessed several trends in basketball: The emergence of European talent; the sophistication of defensive strategies; the ability to exploit the three-point line with outside marksmanship.

But the most recent?

It may be the emergence of Africa has a legitimate recruiting ground.

Not that the NBA hasn't had great players who were from Africa or whose parents were from Africa: Olajuwan and Mutombo come to mind immediately.

But today there are some 55 such players in the NBA. One is a kid who'll be a household name in two years, Jonathan Kuminga. Maybe you can guess which team he plays for. The same one as Andre Iguodala.

Maybe you noticed, Oregon has two kids on their roster from Africa, one from Mali, another from Cameroon. I believe Sac State had one such kid last night, Jonathan Komagum, from Africa via London.

It's a trend.

Are we on it?
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
fanofzoo said:
citay said:
Don't laugh.

Over the years, I've witnessed several trends in basketball: The emergence of European talent; the sophistication of defensive strategies; the ability to exploit the three-point line with outside marksmanship.

But the most recent?

It may be the emergence of Africa has a legitimate recruiting ground.

Not that the NBA hasn't had great players who were from Africa or whose parents were from Africa: Olajuwan and Mutombo come to mind immediately.

But today there are some 55 such players in the NBA. One is a kid who'll be a household name in two years, Jonathan Kuminga. Maybe you can guess which team he plays for. The same one as Andre Iguodala.

Maybe you noticed, Oregon has two kids on their roster from Africa, one from Mali, another from Cameroon. I believe Sac State had one such kid last night, Jonathan Komagum, from Africa via London.

It's a trend.

Are we on it?
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...
 
?
A VAST majority of those Africans who are in the NBA played High School basketball in the US. Jonathan Kuminga being a good example. Travis recruits a lot of high schoolers in the US. So yes, we are on it.

Also you may remember a great Mozambican player named Kendal Manuel?
 
Bozo JrCollegeofAG said:
?
A VAST majority of those Africans who are in the NBA played High School basketball in the US. Jonathan Kuminga being a good example. Travis recruits a lot of high schoolers in the US. So yes, we are on it.

Also you may remember a great Mozambican player named Kendal Manuel?
Click to expand...

Good call, although Manuel was born and went to hs in Billings, and grew up in Maine, Florida and Arizona as well as (briefly?) living in Mozambique as well. I don't know how many years he actually lived in Africa, and would be curious if anyone knows. I don't think he really qualifies as to what citay is getting at. The only "true" born and raised African the Griz have had that I can think of was Vassy Banny from Ivory Coast, although he came to UM from Salt Lake City

CC.https://www.deseret.com/2008/3/18/20077173/slcc-basketball-africans-aid-bruins-tourney-quest
 
citay said:
ordigger said:
Of course this would be a Citay post.
Click to expand...
Of course this would be an Ordigger response.
Click to expand...

Aren't you the guy that has lauded the past 2 - 3 recruiting classes as some of the best in the history of MT basketball? All those little guards from CA you're so high on?

You and coach Cobb must be the same height!
 
Mousegriz said:
citay said:
Of course this would be an Ordigger response.
Click to expand...

Aren't you the guy that has lauded the past 2 - 3 recruiting classes as some of the best in the history of MT basketball? All those little guards from CA you're so high on?

You and coach Cobb must be the same height!
Click to expand...

I've been high on recruiting "little" California guards for a lot more than "2-3 years." I was definitely high on Will Cherry, then Kareem Jamaar, and of course Michael Oguine.

And anybody with basketball savvy beyond California envy would know that my main criticism for some time has not been about the talent but about the design of our offense. In my last post on this topic, I mentioned that it was not just me who noticed this but none other than Mike Montgomery, who said on the Oregon telecast that he "could not diagram the Montana offense." I certainly wish we had more talent up front, but I am fine with our current guard line when properly installed in an offense that suits their talents.

Of course, I too yearn for the great Montana talent that we produced back in the 1950's, legendarily known as "The Fabulous Frosh." Zip Rhoades, Ray Howard, Al Dunham--all home grown. Followed the very next year by Russ Sheriff, like Howard also from Helena, my hometown.

Alas, the talent in those bloodlines dried up, never to recapture the the great glory that once came from homegrown Montana talent. The only vestige now a man expressing thoughts to match his name on this Grizzly board.
 
Cherry Jamar and Oquine? No comparison to any of the guys you've been touting the past 2 - 3years.Save the long winded babble and tell me again about Vasquez, Beasley, Whitney, Falls, Braggs, Etc.
 
Mousegriz said:
Cherry Jamar and Oquine? No comparison to any of the guys you've been touting the past 2 - 3years.Save the long winded babble and tell me again about Vasquez, Beasley, Whitney, Falls, Braggs, Etc.
Click to expand...

Three sophomores and one freshman. So: You've given up on them? Even though the Arizona announcers were lavish in their praise of Vazquez as a true freshman when we played them a couple years ago? Even though Whitney scored 17 points at USC in his very first college game? Even though Rob Beasley was a three-star recruit and the second leading scorer on our team last year, while at the same time setting the all-time Montana record for free-throw percentage at 93% while ranking third in the entire country and second all-time in the Big Sky?

It's taken Mack Anderson four years in the program to become a productive player. Did you ever complain about him? Or does he get a pass because he's from Bozeman.

It's your California bias that comes through here, Mouse. Not any fair reasonable evaluation of the talent.
 
citay said:
Mousegriz said:
Cherry Jamar and Oquine? No comparison to any of the guys you've been touting the past 2 - 3years.Save the long winded babble and tell me again about Vasquez, Beasley, Whitney, Falls, Braggs, Etc.
Click to expand...

Three sophomores and one freshman. So: You've given up on them? Even though the Arizona announcers were lavish in their praise of Vazquez as a true freshman when we played them a couple years ago? Even though Whitney scored 17 points at USC in his very first college game? Even though Rob Beasley was a three-star recruit and the second leading scorer on our team last year, while at the same time setting the all-time Montana record for free-throw percentage at 93% while ranking third in the entire country and second all-time in the Big Sky?

It's taken Mack Anderson four years in the program to become a productive player. Did you ever complain about him? Or does he get a pass because he's from Bozeman.

It's your California bias that comes through here, Mouse. Not any fair reasonable evaluation of the talent.
Click to expand...

The three you mentioned earlier jumped out the first time I saw them and believe started every game they could for 4 years. Athleticism, skill toughness and in Jamar's case size. An actual 6'4" guy. I've not given up on any of these young guys...unless giving up means none of them are or will be another Jamar, Cherry or Oguine. Vasquez impressed the Arizona announcers (announcers!!!???) as a true freshman and now as a third year soph his coach sits him most of some games on a team that won't approach a Cherry, Jamar or Oguine team. Beasley and Whitney are both good players but their size is a factor that limits them. Cherry and Oguine had more athleticism, Jamar more size and played much bigger.

Mack Anderson...I give him lots of credit for hanging in there and becoming a "productive" player. Limited hands, limited offensive skills, great on the up top "flash" defense.....and for some weird reason the Griz get out rebounded by almost every team they play.

Lack of size at every position on the court is not a California bias.
 
Mousegriz said:
citay said:
Three sophomores and one freshman. So: You've given up on them? Even though the Arizona announcers were lavish in their praise of Vazquez as a true freshman when we played them a couple years ago? Even though Whitney scored 17 points at USC in his very first college game? Even though Rob Beasley was a three-star recruit and the second leading scorer on our team last year, while at the same time setting the all-time Montana record for free-throw percentage at 93% while ranking third in the entire country and second all-time in the Big Sky?

It's taken Mack Anderson four years in the program to become a productive player. Did you ever complain about him? Or does he get a pass because he's from Bozeman.

It's your California bias that comes through here, Mouse. Not any fair reasonable evaluation of the talent.
Click to expand...

The three you mentioned earlier jumped out the first time I saw them and believe started every game they could for 4 years. Athleticism, skill toughness and in Jamar's case size. An actual 6'4" guy. I've not given up on any of these young guys...unless giving up means none of them are or will be another Jamar, Cherry or Oguine. Vasquez impressed the Arizona announcers (announcers!!!???) as a true freshman and now as a third year soph his coach sits him most of some games on a team that won't approach a Cherry, Jamar or Oguine team. Beasley and Whitney are both good players but their size is a factor that limits them. Cherry and Oguine had more athleticism, Jamar more size and played much bigger.

Mack Anderson...I give him lots of credit for hanging in there and becoming a "productive" player. Limited hands, limited offensive skills, great on the up top "flash" defense.....and for some weird reason the Griz get out rebounded by almost every team they play.

Lack of size at every position on the court is not a California bias.
Click to expand...

You cite "lack of size at every position on the court" but then ascribe it to all the "little" guards from California! That's not a California bias?

And by the way, Vazquez, Beasely and Braggs (from Nevada, as a matter of fact) are all listed at 6'3". Sure, I'd like to have a Klay Thompson or two out there but 6'3" is not terribly small for a Division One guard. I can live with that--if those players are running an offense that Mike Montgomery can diagram.
 
citay said:
Mousegriz said:
The three you mentioned earlier jumped out the first time I saw them and believe started every game they could for 4 years. Athleticism, skill toughness and in Jamar's case size. An actual 6'4" guy. I've not given up on any of these young guys...unless giving up means none of them are or will be another Jamar, Cherry or Oguine. Vasquez impressed the Arizona announcers (announcers!!!???) as a true freshman and now as a third year soph his coach sits him most of some games on a team that won't approach a Cherry, Jamar or Oguine team. Beasley and Whitney are both good players but their size is a factor that limits them. Cherry and Oguine had more athleticism, Jamar more size and played much bigger.

Mack Anderson...I give him lots of credit for hanging in there and becoming a "productive" player. Limited hands, limited offensive skills, great on the up top "flash" defense.....and for some weird reason the Griz get out rebounded by almost every team they play.

Lack of size at every position on the court is not a California bias.
Click to expand...

You cite "lack of size at every position on the court" but then ascribe it to all the "little" guards from California! That's not a California bias?

And by the way, Vazquez, Beasely and Braggs (from Nevada, as a matter of fact) are all listed at 6'3". Sure, I'd like to have a Klay Thompson or two out there but 6'3" is not terribly small for a Division One guard. I can live with that--if those players are running an offense that Mike Montgomery can diagram.
Click to expand...

Monty's offenses at Montana would have had 15 shot clock violations a game in today's game ....or more!! King of the 53 - 52 score. Let teams you should blow away stay in it and play good teams close. Ran that pattern motion offense that eventually got one of his big men a back pick post up bucket. He did at least recruit post up guys and overall bigger teams than what we see today. One starting lineup I recall was Taylor (6'2") Zanon (6'5" at least) Henkel (6"7" or 6"8) Nielsen (6"7) Stroeder (6"10"). Henkel Nielsen and Stroeder all "bigger" than any starter today. They "ran" about as much as today's team.

I know where the Griz players are from. Guess it's not real a California thing. Now back to your "P5 guards".......I'll take Blaine Taylor and Craig Zanon!
 
Mousegriz said:
citay said:
You cite "lack of size at every position on the court" but then ascribe it to all the "little" guards from California! That's not a California bias?

And by the way, Vazquez, Beasely and Braggs (from Nevada, as a matter of fact) are all listed at 6'3". Sure, I'd like to have a Klay Thompson or two out there but 6'3" is not terribly small for a Division One guard. I can live with that--if those players are running an offense that Mike Montgomery can diagram.
Click to expand...

Monty's offenses at Montana would have had 15 shot clock violations a game in today's game ....or more!! King of the 53 - 52 score. Let teams you should blow away stay in it and play good teams close. Ran that pattern motion offense that eventually got one of his big men a back pick post up bucket. He did at least recruit post up guys and overall bigger teams than what we see today. One starting lineup I recall was Taylor (6'2") Zanon (6'5" at least) Henkel (6"7" or 6"8) Nielsen (6"7) Stroeder (6"10"). Henkel Nielsen and Stroeder all "bigger" than any starter today. They "ran" about as much as today's team.

I know where the Griz players are from. Guess it's not real a California thing. Now back to your "P5 guards".......I'll take Blaine Taylor and Craig Zanon!
Click to expand...

I have no problem with Taylor and Zanon! But where are they today on the Montana high school basketball landscape?

Which leads me to another speculation. Back in the Zanon-Taylor era Montana was more a basketball than football state. But thanks to the success of the Griz in football, this is now a football state. In fact, it is my opinion that much of the strength of our football program rests on the incredible in-state football talent that the state produces year after year.

But basketball? Sure a good player comes along every now and then. But like in football? Or like back in the Taylor-Zanon era? I don't think so.
 
Montana State has a pretty good football team too in case you haven't noticed.

A different question I have...where do our Griz players play in the summer and offseason? Do they stay in Missoula in the summer to work together and if so how do they play against competition that makes them better? That's one thing I think a few of us question.....do our players improve that much during the careers? Vasquez did seem a true frosh that deservedly caught the attention of announcers. This year he's caught the attention of announcers wondering why he's on the bench so much. In what facets has his game improved over the past two years? Same might be said of Carter Hollinger and Owens.

It's interesting to me that HS kids spend their whole summers playing high level competitive basketball all around the country. Do the Griz players get anywhere near the exposure to different competition as the AAU kids during their off season?
 
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