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Transgender?

Transgender? Yea or Nay? and your reasoning!

  • Yea

    Votes: 22 51.2%
  • Nay

    Votes: 21 48.8%

  • Total voters
    43
The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.

Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.

1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.

2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.

3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.


--
Just my perspective.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.

Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.

1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.

2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.

3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.


--
Just my perspective.

Great Post!!!
 
Grizfan-24 said:
The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.

Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.

1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.

2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.

3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.


--
Just my perspective.
Very well said!
 
If you hope to have, had or have girls playing sports. Then the answer to the question is clear. Men are bigger stronger faster on average with no question. Now at the college level they will use up scholarships for those born girls. And the door doesn't swing both ways. Women becoming men and dominating men's sports? Nope. If everything was a level playing field gender related then there would never need to be a distinction in sports. We would see women in every men sport at a 50/50 split. That's just not the case. NCAA is trying to force this on everybody according to a recent article I viewed. Punishing states that have a trans ban with no post season games. I don't know maybe have a transgender division.....?
 
Grizfan-24 said:
The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.

Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.

1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.

2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.

3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.


--
Just my perspective.

You nailed it, but of course this is a very polarized subject, and the group holding hands around the opposite pole....well you know.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.

Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.

1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.

2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.

3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.


--
Just my perspective.

I am a recently retired teacher and coach. I could not have said it any better. Great post.
 
ThinkingGriz said:
If you hope to have, had or have girls playing sports. Then the answer to the question is clear. Men are bigger stronger faster on average with no question. Now at the college level they will use up scholarships for those born girls. And the door doesn't swing both ways. Women becoming men and dominating men's sports? Nope. If everything was a level playing field gender related then there would never need to be a distinction in sports. We would see women in every men sport at a 50/50 split. That's just not the case. NCAA is trying to force this on everybody according to a recent article I viewed. Punishing states that have a trans ban with no post season games. I don't know maybe have a transgender division.....?

:thumb: Since I choose to have no kids a long time ago I really have no or equal say in the matter, but just feel it is not fair or equally competitive to have male born competing with female born athletes. I am sorry to have to say this but hurting a trans feelings is too bad. Just my thoughts on the deal. Sorry if I have offended anyone, but OH WELL! Just my common sense speaking here! Here it comes! 10,9,8,7
 
Dillon said:
ThinkingGriz said:
If you hope to have, had or have girls playing sports. Then the answer to the question is clear. Men are bigger stronger faster on average with no question. Now at the college level they will use up scholarships for those born girls. And the door doesn't swing both ways. Women becoming men and dominating men's sports? Nope. If everything was a level playing field gender related then there would never need to be a distinction in sports. We would see women in every men sport at a 50/50 split. That's just not the case. NCAA is trying to force this on everybody according to a recent article I viewed. Punishing states that have a trans ban with no post season games. I don't know maybe have a transgender division.....?

:thumb: Since I choose to have no kids a long time ago I really have no or equal say in the matter, but just feel it is not fair or equally competitive to have male born competing with female born athletes. I am sorry to have to say this but hurting a trans feelings is too bad. Just my thoughts on the deal. Sorry if I have offended anyone, but OH WELL! Just my common sense speaking here! Here it comes! 10,9,8,7

I am a proud girl Dad, and having coached girls basketball and softball, i understand how far women’s sports have come but also the obstacles they still face. I have yet to read about a biological girl playing boys sports.. it is only bio men competing against women. Why is this? Well, i think most people can figure this out. I fear this movement is a modern day attack on women and can only damage them on the playing field for again, obvious reasons that don’t take too much critical thinking.

It is simple to me, if you are a proponent for transgenders competing against girls than you are against girls. I Believe this is a monumental time for girls and it’s a battle that they have to fight and win to keep moving forward towards equality one day. This movement is endangering all progress in women’s rights to equality in athletics.
 
Do you think that if a 6' 9" five star boy prep player decides to change genders, goes to PoDunk University as a womens athlete, averages 50pts and 30rbs a game and leads them to 4 NCAA titles, then goes to the NBA, will that change anything?
 
sacstateman said:
Do you think that if a 6' 9" five star boy prep player decides to change genders, goes to PoDunk University as a womens athlete, averages 50pts and 30rbs a game and leads them to 4 NCAA titles, then goes to the NBA, will that change anything?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c
 
Dillon said:
ThinkingGriz said:
If you hope to have, had or have girls playing sports. Then the answer to the question is clear. Men are bigger stronger faster on average with no question. Now at the college level they will use up scholarships for those born girls. And the door doesn't swing both ways. Women becoming men and dominating men's sports? Nope. If everything was a level playing field gender related then there would never need to be a distinction in sports. We would see women in every men sport at a 50/50 split. That's just not the case. NCAA is trying to force this on everybody according to a recent article I viewed. Punishing states that have a trans ban with no post season games. I don't know maybe have a transgender division.....?

:thumb: Since I choose to have no kids a long time ago I really have no or equal say in the matter, but just feel it is not fair or equally competitive to have male born competing with female born athletes. I am sorry to have to say this but hurting a trans feelings is too bad. Just my thoughts on the deal. Sorry if I have offended anyone, but OH WELL! Just my common sense speaking here! Here it comes! 10,9,8,7

I am a proud girl Dad, and having coached girls basketball and softball, i understand how far women’s sports have come but also the obstacles they still face. I have yet to read about a biological girl playing boys sports.. it is only bio men competing against women. Why is this? Well, i think most people can figure this out. I fear this movement is a modern day attack on women and can only damage them on the playing field for again, obvious reasons that don’t take too much critical thinking.

It is simple to me, if you are a proponent for transgenders competing against girls than you are against girls. I Believe this is a monumental time for girls and it’s a battle that they have to fight and win to keep moving forward towards equality one day. This movement is endangering all progress in women’s rights to equality in athletics.
 
Quality tweet:


“Still Everyone’s Favorite BackupRB” Schmidtacular
@ASchmidtacular
Straight white man deadass thinks not having a law preventing trans kids from playing sports encourages them to transition. What a fucking leap.

“I feel uncomfortable in my gender but I wasn’t going to transition until I found out I could play women’s softball.”

Fucking idiot
 
NAY! This whole movement is ludicrous! As a former collegiate athlete and current coach of GIRLS sports, and a lifetime fighter for women’s rights... this movement to allow biological men to compete against biological women is outrageous! Female athletes and supporters of women’s sports better star fighting back now... or we will lose everything we have fought for.
 
UncleRico said:
Grizfan-24 said:
The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.

Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.

1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.

2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.

3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.


--
Just my perspective.

I am a recently retired teacher and coach. I could not have said it any better. Great post.

:clap:
 
As of now I'm somewhat indifferent. In the event transgenders want to start wrestling my thoughts will change, even though I still cringe at the thought of a couple of guys grabbing each other anyway.

I seriously doubt either of my daughters ever considered wrestling, but I'm going to ask what their thoughts on this subject might be just out of curiosity.
 
Grizfan-24 said:
The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.

Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.

1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.

2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.

3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.


--
Just my perspective.

POTY
 
HelenaHandBasket said:
Grizfan-24 said:
The football discussion is a dumpster fire and this won't be any different.

Working in high schools for the past 20 years not only as a teacher but as a coach, I have a markedly different approach to this issue than I assume most on this page and site do.

1. This isn't about competitive advantage and it isn't about gaming the system. This is about coming to grips with idea that our nice and neat moral framework for how the world is supposed to be doesn't line up with the bio-chemical element of nature. For my students who have transitioned or have begun the process of transitioning, I see young adults who are happier and more content with who they are. Pretty cynical perspective to have that you see people doing this for a competitive advantage. There isn't some sort of nefarious liberal goal here, this is about students and their mental and physical well being.

2. I have coached girls sports. In almost all the sports I have coached (softball and basketball) girls have taken back seats in communities. They get second everything in a lot of communities and the message many hear when this conversation comes up is, "oh now you are interested" in girls athletics and equity/fairness. You weren't around when schools dump tens of thousands of dollars in the football program and you can't get around to building softball fields so you don't have to share your facility with the cities men's slow pitch softball program or provide adequate training facilities or opportunities. This isn't a viewpoint pushed in the media all that common, but it an absolute truth in most womens/girls sports communities. There are girls and women who are troubled by the transgender issue, as it was in Idaho w/ the transgender athlete running XC for Montana, and I am respectful of that view but as far as my experience has been that isn't or doesn't appear to be a widely held opinion.

3. From a political perspective, this is a tilting at windmills issue. This is a talking point, an issue that is great fodder for the bar, political circuits and family get-togethers. I've dealt with a ton of them in my years as an educator, and it isn't a non-issue in or for most communities in the United States there are more pressing issues than whether someone chooses to identify as one sex or the other, or bathrooms. The cardinal tell is that Montana legislators don't even believe in it because they can't stand losing federal tax money for schools. This is NOT a big or important enough issue them to stand up to the federal government to stand on principle. This is purely to get the base riled up, throwing chum in the water.


--
Just my perspective.

You nailed it, but of course this is a very polarized subject, and the group holding hands around the opposite pole....well you know.

Well said Griz Fan 24. Look nobody said it was going to be perfectly fair. As it is splitting things into girls and boys does a pretty piss poor job of making things fair, there are plenty of dudes that have athletic genetics closer to girls than they do to top preforming male athletes, but they still have to compete against other guys with 5x the natural size and ability. Boxing and wrestling try to deal with this issue by having weight classes. I suspect as time goes on we will come up with better ways to organize players by their competitive abilities rather than just Boy Girl. But the gas lighting and concern trolling by the people who "care" about women's sports now is getting pretty tired as if we have to pump the brakes on accepting non-traditional gender expression because it may raise some complicated issue with athletics.
 
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