Ode to Football

citay said:

As many of you can tell from my posts, my main passion these days is basketball, not only because of the all the recent success of our Griz, but also by being able to watch regularly the incredible exploits of Steph Curry, one of the most exciting basketball players I have ever seen. And I love the coaches, Steve Kerr and Travis DeCurie, because both have brought back team-first ball-movement basketball.

But it wasn't always this way. For a good period, especially during the ego-driven, one-on-one era of basketball, I was primarily a football fan, both pro (Niners) and of course our Griz. I appreciated the team-first concept, the passion of the crowds, the ability to "belch and fart and talk about sports " with my buds. Back in the day I could have recited the two-deeps for the Griz on both sides of the ball and was even on a first-name basis with Joe Glenn. I flew to Portland to watch us play Portland Sate and (once) Oregon State, also to Denver (with a short drive to Laramie to watch us play the Cowboys.) Not to mention driving to Sacramento and San Luis Obispo on several occasions.

But the football scandal at Montana was the first of several incidents that switched me away from football. It reminded me of my own experience as a student, where several of the basketball players were friends, while the football team had a bunch of loud, obnoxious bullies. There ensued then the medical reports, especially from the NFL, about the brain injuries that were far more serious and lasting than just "he got his bell rung." Finally, as you can probably tell from my politics, I was not happy about the NFL's response to the Colin Kaepernick situation. It reminded me of the final scene in "North Dallas Forty," where the receiver is cut and he tells his buddy, the star quarterback: "Just remember. You're not the player. You're just the equipment. The owners are the players."

But I gotta say, last night, I took a night away from other activities, plopped down in a chair and switched among Utah-BYU, Niners-Chargers and South Dakota State-Minnesota. What a great fun evening it was, with the Jackrabbit game easily being the most entertaining. It all reminded me of a saying, "Time wasted pleasurably is not time wasted."

And so, here's a toast to football: "Go Griz!"

(But let the basketball season begin.....)

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PlayerRep said:

There never was a football scandal at UM or Missoula. You must have listened to the faulty and dishonest information coming from the Missoulian and other media. Yes, some incidents over many years, and every guy who actually involved was sent packing and never played a down for the Griz again. Also of stuff that either had not occurred, or was quite minor.

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PlayerRep said:

There never was a football scandal at UM or Missoula. You must have listened to the faulty and dishonest information coming from the Missoulian and other media. Yes, some incidents over many years, and every guy who actually involved was sent packing and never played a down for the Griz again. Also of stuff that either had not occurred, or was quite minor.

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citay said:

As many of you can tell from my posts, my main passion these days is basketball, not only because of the all the recent success of our Griz, but also by being able to watch regularly the incredible exploits of Steph Curry, one of the most exciting basketball players I have ever seen. And I love the coaches, Steve Kerr and Travis DeCurie, because both have brought back team-first ball-movement basketball.

But it wasn't always this way. For a good period, especially during the ego-driven, one-on-one era of basketball, I was primarily a football fan, both pro (Niners) and of course our Griz. I appreciated the team-first concept, the passion of the crowds, the ability to "belch and fart and talk about sports " with my buds. Back in the day I could have recited the two-deeps for the Griz on both sides of the ball and was even on a first-name basis with Joe Glenn. I flew to Portland to watch us play Portland Sate and (once) Oregon State, also to Denver (with a short drive to Laramie to watch us play the Cowboys.) Not to mention driving to Sacramento and San Luis Obispo on several occasions.

But the football scandal at Montana was the first of several incidents that switched me away from football. It reminded me of my own experience as a student, where several of the basketball players were friends, while the football team had a bunch of loud, obnoxious bullies. There ensued then the medical reports, especially from the NFL, about the brain injuries that were far more serious and lasting than just "he got his bell rung." Finally, as you can probably tell from my politics, I was not happy about the NFL's response to the Colin Kaepernick situation. It reminded me of the final scene in "North Dallas Forty," where the receiver is cut and he tells his buddy, the star quarterback: "Just remember. You're not the player. You're just the equipment. The owners are the players."

But I gotta say, last night, I took a night away from other activities, plopped down in a chair and switched among Utah-BYU, Niners-Chargers and South Dakota State-Minnesota. What a great fun evening it was, with the Jackrabbit game easily being the most entertaining. It all reminded me of a saying, "Time wasted pleasurably is not time wasted."

And so, here's a toast to football: "Go Griz!"

(But let the basketball season begin.....)

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maroonandsilver said:

PlayerRep said:

There never was a football scandal at UM or Missoula. You must have listened to the faulty and dishonest information coming from the Missoulian and other media. Yes, some incidents over many years, and every guy who actually involved was sent packing and never played a down for the Griz again. Also of stuff that either had not occurred, or was quite minor.

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You don't think the work-study "Scandal" was not a "Scandal"?

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citay said:

PlayerRep said:

There never was a football scandal at UM or Missoula. You must have listened to the faulty and dishonest information coming from the Missoulian and other media. Yes, some incidents over many years, and every guy who actually involved was sent packing and never played a down for the Griz again. Also of stuff that either had not occurred, or was quite minor.

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Spoken like a true defense lawyer!

But I learned a long time ago, law and justice are often strange bedfellows. That often you're innocent in this country until proved broke--or are a football star at a major American university, where there is a team of coaches, university officials, attorneys and friendly law enforcement people in place to help you get off, as there was at the University of Montana.

And while this is not criminal or immoral, I always have to laugh at the running back I knew back when I was in school. This kid was terrific. His very first game he ran a kickoff back for a touchdown, but there was a holding penalty so they re-kicked. And he ran it back for a touchdown again.

I asked him what he was majoring in, and he said, "I dunno. Coach knows."

Coach knows law-enforcement officials too.

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PlayerRep said:

citay said:

PlayerRep said:

There never was a football scandal at UM or Missoula. You must have listened to the faulty and dishonest information coming from the Missoulian and other media. Yes, some incidents over many years, and every guy who actually involved was sent packing and never played a down for the Griz again. Also of stuff that either had not occurred, or was quite minor.

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Spoken like a true defense lawyer!

But I learned a long time ago, law and justice are often strange bedfellows. That often you're innocent in this country until proved broke--or are a football star at a major American university, where there is a team of coaches, university officials, attorneys and friendly law enforcement people in place to help you get off, as there was at the University of Montana.

And while this is not criminal or immoral, I always have to laugh at the running back I knew back when I was in school. This kid was terrific. His very first game he ran a kickoff back for a touchdown, but there was a holding penalty so they re-kicked. And he ran it back for a touchdown again.

I asked him what he was majoring in, and he said, "I dunno. Coach knows."

Coach knows law-enforcement officials too.

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Oh, please. On the football incidents, or alleged incidents, since 2000, I would be happy to debate you over your "football scandal" comment.

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rocklobster said:

citay said:

As many of you can tell from my posts, my main passion these days is basketball, not only because of the all the recent success of our Griz, but also by being able to watch regularly the incredible exploits of Steph Curry, one of the most exciting basketball players I have ever seen. And I love the coaches, Steve Kerr and Travis DeCurie, because both have brought back team-first ball-movement basketball.

But it wasn't always this way. For a good period, especially during the ego-driven, one-on-one era of basketball, I was primarily a football fan, both pro (Niners) and of course our Griz. I appreciated the team-first concept, the passion of the crowds, the ability to "belch and fart and talk about sports " with my buds. Back in the day I could have recited the two-deeps for the Griz on both sides of the ball and was even on a first-name basis with Joe Glenn. I flew to Portland to watch us play Portland Sate and (once) Oregon State, also to Denver (with a short drive to Laramie to watch us play the Cowboys.) Not to mention driving to Sacramento and San Luis Obispo on several occasions.

But the football scandal at Montana was the first of several incidents that switched me away from football. It reminded me of my own experience as a student, where several of the basketball players were friends, while the football team had a bunch of loud, obnoxious bullies. There ensued then the medical reports, especially from the NFL, about the brain injuries that were far more serious and lasting than just "he got his bell rung." Finally, as you can probably tell from my politics, I was not happy about the NFL's response to the Colin Kaepernick situation. It reminded me of the final scene in "North Dallas Forty," where the receiver is cut and he tells his buddy, the star quarterback: "Just remember. You're not the player. You're just the equipment. The owners are the players."

But I gotta say, last night, I took a night away from other activities, plopped down in a chair and switched among Utah-BYU, Niners-Chargers and South Dakota State-Minnesota. What a great fun evening it was, with the Jackrabbit game easily being the most entertaining. It all reminded me of a saying, "Time wasted pleasurably is not time wasted."

And so, here's a toast to football: "Go Griz!"

(But let the basketball season begin.....)

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Well said, sir! :thumb:

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PlayerRep said:

A football "scandal" largely created by some of the media, a lot of false or misleading information, some people with an agenda and bad motives, and many people willing to buy the BS and not willing to discern the facts. Combined with 1 or 2 legitimate bad incidents (like house invasion) and a string of mostly lesser things, which, as you said, occurs at all schools and among all students, not just athletes. Lots of press about sexual assault stuff that largely didn't occur. JJ acquitted and remaining in school the whole time, and eventually receiving a settlement from UM. BD out of school, but no other player who fought their proceeding was kicked out of school. Wilson acquitted, essentially twice. A weak president who made many bad decisions, which actually made the situation worse. An NCAA investigation based on virtually nothing of substance, which found nothing of substance. And was not properly fought by the administration. A long list of things that mostly turned out to be little or nothing, or just plain false. Coaches and athletic administrators working hard to make things good, and getting virtually no credit.

Many of these guys are now coaches and teachers, in law enforcement, and generally doing well. Pflu is the one who had much of his career taken away from him. Mostly because he had the spine and integrity to say positive things about and support a player he believed in and knew very well. He should have sued the university, as well as anyone who said false crap about him to Engstrom.

The false narrative of some of the media and some others, as well as those who should know better buying the BS, has contributed to the decline of the university. Probably significantly.

While some people are just going to believe what they want, I am not one to sit back and allow what I view as false statements or false views to be said.

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Zirg said:

rocklobster said:

citay said:

As many of you can tell from my posts, my main passion these days is basketball, not only because of the all the recent success of our Griz, but also by being able to watch regularly the incredible exploits of Steph Curry, one of the most exciting basketball players I have ever seen. And I love the coaches, Steve Kerr and Travis DeCurie, because both have brought back team-first ball-movement basketball.

But it wasn't always this way. For a good period, especially during the ego-driven, one-on-one era of basketball, I was primarily a football fan, both pro (Niners) and of course our Griz. I appreciated the team-first concept, the passion of the crowds, the ability to "belch and fart and talk about sports " with my buds. Back in the day I could have recited the two-deeps for the Griz on both sides of the ball and was even on a first-name basis with Joe Glenn. I flew to Portland to watch us play Portland Sate and (once) Oregon State, also to Denver (with a short drive to Laramie to watch us play the Cowboys.) Not to mention driving to Sacramento and San Luis Obispo on several occasions.

But the football scandal at Montana was the first of several incidents that switched me away from football. It reminded me of my own experience as a student, where several of the basketball players were friends, while the football team had a bunch of loud, obnoxious bullies. There ensued then the medical reports, especially from the NFL, about the brain injuries that were far more serious and lasting than just "he got his bell rung." Finally, as you can probably tell from my politics, I was not happy about the NFL's response to the Colin Kaepernick situation. It reminded me of the final scene in "North Dallas Forty," where the receiver is cut and he tells his buddy, the star quarterback: "Just remember. You're not the player. You're just the equipment. The owners are the players."

But I gotta say, last night, I took a night away from other activities, plopped down in a chair and switched among Utah-BYU, Niners-Chargers and South Dakota State-Minnesota. What a great fun evening it was, with the Jackrabbit game easily being the most entertaining. It all reminded me of a saying, "Time wasted pleasurably is not time wasted."

And so, here's a toast to football: "Go Griz!"

(But let the basketball season begin.....)

Click to expand...

Well said, sir! :thumb:

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I'm not gonna dip into the meaty controversy here,others already got that covered,but I just have one minor point of contention,Citay. You said that Steve Kerr brought back team-first ball-movement bball? His "offense employed elements of the triangle offense from his playing days in Chicago under Phil Jackson, the spacing and pace of Gregg Popovich in San Antonio, and the uptempo principles Mike D'Antoni and later Alvin Gentry used in Phoenix when Kerr was the GM." He didn't invent anything, IMO. He's learned from others and has been blessed with the most-talented team every year he's coached. He didn't make Curry and Durant and Thompson etc great players. They already were. If he went to coach Charlotte or some other lowly NBA team, do you really think Kerr could turn a bad team into a good team?

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citay said:

Zirg said:

rocklobster said:

citay said:

As many of you can tell from my posts, my main passion these days is basketball, not only because of the all the recent success of our Griz, but also by being able to watch regularly the incredible exploits of Steph Curry, one of the most exciting basketball players I have ever seen. And I love the coaches, Steve Kerr and Travis DeCurie, because both have brought back team-first ball-movement basketball.

But it wasn't always this way. For a good period, especially during the ego-driven, one-on-one era of basketball, I was primarily a football fan, both pro (Niners) and of course our Griz. I appreciated the team-first concept, the passion of the crowds, the ability to "belch and fart and talk about sports " with my buds. Back in the day I could have recited the two-deeps for the Griz on both sides of the ball and was even on a first-name basis with Joe Glenn. I flew to Portland to watch us play Portland Sate and (once) Oregon State, also to Denver (with a short drive to Laramie to watch us play the Cowboys.) Not to mention driving to Sacramento and San Luis Obispo on several occasions.

But the football scandal at Montana was the first of several incidents that switched me away from football. It reminded me of my own experience as a student, where several of the basketball players were friends, while the football team had a bunch of loud, obnoxious bullies. There ensued then the medical reports, especially from the NFL, about the brain injuries that were far more serious and lasting than just "he got his bell rung." Finally, as you can probably tell from my politics, I was not happy about the NFL's response to the Colin Kaepernick situation. It reminded me of the final scene in "North Dallas Forty," where the receiver is cut and he tells his buddy, the star quarterback: "Just remember. You're not the player. You're just the equipment. The owners are the players."

But I gotta say, last night, I took a night away from other activities, plopped down in a chair and switched among Utah-BYU, Niners-Chargers and South Dakota State-Minnesota. What a great fun evening it was, with the Jackrabbit game easily being the most entertaining. It all reminded me of a saying, "Time wasted pleasurably is not time wasted."

And so, here's a toast to football: "Go Griz!"

(But let the basketball season begin.....)

Click to expand...

Well said, sir! :thumb:

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I'm not gonna dip into the meaty controversy here,others already got that covered,but I just have one minor point of contention,Citay. You said that Steve Kerr brought back team-first ball-movement bball? His "offense employed elements of the triangle offense from his playing days in Chicago under Phil Jackson, the spacing and pace of Gregg Popovich in San Antonio, and the uptempo principles Mike D'Antoni and later Alvin Gentry used in Phoenix when Kerr was the GM." He didn't invent anything, IMO. He's learned from others and has been blessed with the most-talented team every year he's coached. He didn't make Curry and Durant and Thompson etc great players. They already were. If he went to coach Charlotte or some other lowly NBA team, do you really think Kerr could turn a bad team into a good team?

Click to expand...

Zirg: Minor points, indeed.

I never said Kerr "invented" up-tempo team-first basketball; I said he brought it back. I'm happy to credit all the coaches who influenced Kerr, including all the ones you mentioned, and most especially, perhaps, Popovich. When I watch his offense, the ball moves beautifully.

All the great legendary coaches had great players; name one who didn't. Red Auerbach had Russell, Cousy, Sam and KC Jones; Pat Riley had Jabbar, Magic and Worthy; Phil Jackson had Jordan and Pippen; Gregg Popovich had Robinson and Duncan. You seem to hold it against Steve Kerr alone that he had great talent.

Is Kerr a great coach? I think he is. Would he turn it around in Charlotte? Only if he got the players he wanted. The big problem in Charlotte is management, not coaching.

But lest we speculate on that, let's use this very next season as a test case. Kerr loses Durant and two key bench players, Iguadala and Livingston. Thompson won't play till the All-Star break, at the very earliest. The roster is dotted with younger players; no NBA team got younger faster than the Warriors did this off-season. We'll see if Kerr can blend all these players into one cohesive unit.

Will they make the playoffs? Will they contend for a title?

I'm saying yes to both counts, though doubters abound.

So if you insist the verdict is still out on Kerr, the coming season should deliver the result.

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citay said:

Zirg said:

rocklobster said:

citay said:

As many of you can tell from my posts, my main passion these days is basketball, not only because of the all the recent success of our Griz, but also by being able to watch regularly the incredible exploits of Steph Curry, one of the most exciting basketball players I have ever seen. And I love the coaches, Steve Kerr and Travis DeCurie, because both have brought back team-first ball-movement basketball.

But it wasn't always this way. For a good period, especially during the ego-driven, one-on-one era of basketball, I was primarily a football fan, both pro (Niners) and of course our Griz. I appreciated the team-first concept, the passion of the crowds, the ability to "belch and fart and talk about sports " with my buds. Back in the day I could have recited the two-deeps for the Griz on both sides of the ball and was even on a first-name basis with Joe Glenn. I flew to Portland to watch us play Portland Sate and (once) Oregon State, also to Denver (with a short drive to Laramie to watch us play the Cowboys.) Not to mention driving to Sacramento and San Luis Obispo on several occasions.

But the football scandal at Montana was the first of several incidents that switched me away from football. It reminded me of my own experience as a student, where several of the basketball players were friends, while the football team had a bunch of loud, obnoxious bullies. There ensued then the medical reports, especially from the NFL, about the brain injuries that were far more serious and lasting than just "he got his bell rung." Finally, as you can probably tell from my politics, I was not happy about the NFL's response to the Colin Kaepernick situation. It reminded me of the final scene in "North Dallas Forty," where the receiver is cut and he tells his buddy, the star quarterback: "Just remember. You're not the player. You're just the equipment. The owners are the players."

But I gotta say, last night, I took a night away from other activities, plopped down in a chair and switched among Utah-BYU, Niners-Chargers and South Dakota State-Minnesota. What a great fun evening it was, with the Jackrabbit game easily being the most entertaining. It all reminded me of a saying, "Time wasted pleasurably is not time wasted."

And so, here's a toast to football: "Go Griz!"

(But let the basketball season begin.....)

Click to expand...

Well said, sir! :thumb:

Click to expand...

I'm not gonna dip into the meaty controversy here,others already got that covered,but I just have one minor point of contention,Citay. You said that Steve Kerr brought back team-first ball-movement bball? His "offense employed elements of the triangle offense from his playing days in Chicago under Phil Jackson, the spacing and pace of Gregg Popovich in San Antonio, and the uptempo principles Mike D'Antoni and later Alvin Gentry used in Phoenix when Kerr was the GM." He didn't invent anything, IMO. He's learned from others and has been blessed with the most-talented team every year he's coached. He didn't make Curry and Durant and Thompson etc great players. They already were. If he went to coach Charlotte or some other lowly NBA team, do you really think Kerr could turn a bad team into a good team?

Click to expand...

Zirg: Minor points, indeed.

I never said Kerr "invented" up-tempo team-first basketball; I said he brought it back. I'm happy to credit all the coaches who influenced Kerr, including all the ones you mentioned, and most especially, perhaps, Popovich. When I watch his offense, the ball moves beautifully.

All the great legendary coaches had great players; name one who didn't. Red Auerbach had Russell, Cousy, Sam and KC Jones; Pat Riley had Jabbar, Magic and Worthy; Phil Jackson had Jordan and Pippen; Gregg Popovich had Robinson and Duncan. You seem to hold it against Steve Kerr alone that he had great talent.

Is Kerr a great coach? I think he is. Would he turn it around in Charlotte? Only if he got the players he wanted. The big problem in Charlotte is management, not coaching.

But lest we speculate on that, let's use this very next season as a test case. Kerr loses Durant and two key bench players, Iguadala and Livingston. Thompson won't play till the All-Star break, at the very earliest. The roster is dotted with younger players; no NBA team got younger faster than the Warriors did this off-season. We'll see if Kerr can blend all these players into one cohesive unit.

Will they make the playoffs? Will they contend for a title?

I'm saying yes to both counts, though doubters abound.

So if you insist the verdict is still out on Kerr, the coming season should deliver the result.

Click to expand...

citay said:

Zirg said:

rocklobster said:

citay said:

As many of you can tell from my posts, my main passion these days is basketball, not only because of t

So if you insist the verdict is still out on Kerr, the coming season should deliver the result.

Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with anything, but who do you think the greatest Warriors player ever is/was? There's only one right answer, and It's not Steph Curry.

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citay said:

I know this Board is not about the Warriors. But maybe since it's so slow, you'll indulge my responses to Zirg and Rocklobster.

Zirg: I'm sensing a trick question! Okay, I'll bite. The greatest PLAYER in Warriors history would probably be either Wilt Chamberlain or Kevin Durant. You might ever consider Rick Barry.

But the greatest WARRIOR is indubitably, undeniably Steph Curry. No other Warrior has won three championships. No other Warrior has changed basketball like he has or been the face of the franchise like he has. Not to mention that last night my wife and I had a fabulous dinner at his wife Ayesha's restaurant, International Smoke. So for me this morning, it is all Steph Curry!

Rocklobster: Mark Jackson made important contributions to the Warrior dynasty, and Steve Kerr is the first to admit that, especially when it came to defense.

But after three years, Warrior players were starting to tune him out. Jackson is devoutly religious, and that annoyed some players. True, he got the Warriors to the playoffs for two straight years, but it was management's opinion they needed another coach to reach championship level. Kerr did that, and here's how:

--Before his first game, he met with each player individually, to explain his plan for the team, and that player's role in that plan. He even traveled to Australia to meet with Andrew Bogut--one-on-one meetings that came in stark contrast to Jackson's sermonettes.
--He hired Ron Adams, possibly the league's top defensive guru, away from the Boston Celtics.
--He not only created the slogan "strength numbers," he acted on in. He convinced Iguodala, an NBA All-Star who'd always been a starter, to become a sixth man, off the bench. Iguodala did not like it, but he bought in, and that is now seen as a brilliant move.
--He made practice fun--loud music, trick shots, side bets. Kerr was one of the best shooters of his era, and his shooting contests with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson during practices entertained the entire team.
--He installed the famous "death lineup." He's not credited with the idea, a young video coordinator is, but Kerr is the one who stuck with it during a championship game against Cleveland, when initially it seemed not to work. When Durant arrived, that "death lineup" really became lethal, but remember that the Warriors won one championship using it, and might have won another had not Draymond Green been suspended for a critical game five with the Warriors up 3-1 in the series.

Anyway, Kerr really put his stamp on this team, in many ways that Jackson did not. You won't see many Warriors fans shedding dinosaur tears for Mark Jackson.

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