Shannon???

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ThinkingGriz
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Re: Shannon???

Post by ThinkingGriz » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:15 pm

Just wondering? Will it be a year to year contract now with performance criteria?
With all the excitement with Travis returning the utter lack of excitement with Shannon seems to say a lot. Both on the part of Haslem and Lady Griz fans.

717s7e
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Re: Shannon???

Post by 717s7e » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:57 am

When creeps with a total of 3 posts (such as ThinkingGriz) start trash talking one of our coaches, it is obvious we are being hacked by someone from "another school" during the prime of recruiting season. Please don't fall for this crap - let's support Shannon through the crazy rash of injuries she has had.

I saw that another of the trash talkers had only 17 posts. Go back to your own board.

ThinkingGriz
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Re: Shannon???

Post by ThinkingGriz » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:49 am

717s7e wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:57 am
When creeps with a total of 3 posts (such as ThinkingGriz) start trash talking one of our coaches, it is obvious we are being hacked by someone from "another school" during the prime of recruiting season. Please don't fall for this crap - let's support Shannon through the crazy rash of injuries she has had.

I saw that another of the trash talkers had only 17 posts. Go back to your own board.
Well you you just don't know jack. I have been watching the ladies before Shannon ever wore a Lady Griz jersey and have had season tickets for almost as long. I have had many friends and daughters of friends play for the U of M. I will continue to go as long as I can still get there and support the team. Shannon has to change on how she coaches or all of us who aren't wearing rose colored lenses will be seeing the same things as the last three years. Shannon signed sometime around august 3 years ago so that could be the delay in announcement.

717s7e
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Re: Shannon???

Post by 717s7e » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:44 am

If you are such a long-time fan, then shut your piehole until after recruiting season - obviously she has another season so what good does your sniping do? Be part of the team and wait to see how she does with a healthy team. Sheesh . . .

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Grizfan-24
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Re: Shannon???

Post by Grizfan-24 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:12 pm

Why does it matter how many posts they have?

There are some pretty credible people on this board and elsewhere that have been verbalizing their concerns about the coaching for almost nearly two years now. For most of us who have heard rumors there is no solace or axe to grind, but rather a genuine concern about the direction of the program.

Yes she might be returning for another year, but that doesn't make everything right in whoville. There are legitimate concerns that go well beyond tactical on court issues that have been expressed by a number of different stakeholders. If she is in fact returning, I do hope those issues are finally put to bed.

As for the on the court stuff, I hope all the issues remedy themselves. I for one don't believe all the problems were or are injury related, and have reasons to believe they aren't.

I believe people can have a critical eye and not somehow sully the great name of a Lady Griz legend. I think both can exist, but as this conversation has drawn on since December, some obviously cannot handle the idea that we might criticize elements and express concerns about the direction of the program.
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Spanky2
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Re: Shannon???

Post by Spanky2 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:08 pm

Money, those are extreme comments. Do you have information to support the comments or are you just ranting?

grizzlyjournal
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Re: Shannon???

Post by grizzlyjournal » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:29 pm

Grizfan-24 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:12 pm
Why does it matter how many posts they have?

There are some pretty credible people on this board and elsewhere that have been verbalizing their concerns about the coaching for almost nearly two years now. For most of us who have heard rumors there is no solace or axe to grind, but rather a genuine concern about the direction of the program.

Yes she might be returning for another year, but that doesn't make everything right in whoville. There are legitimate concerns that go well beyond tactical on court issues that have been expressed by a number of different stakeholders. If she is in fact returning, I do hope those issues are finally put to bed.

As for the on the court stuff, I hope all the issues remedy themselves. I for one don't believe all the problems were or are injury related, and have reasons to believe they aren't.

I believe people can have a critical eye and not somehow sully the great name of a Lady Griz legend. I think both can exist, but as this conversation has drawn on since December, some obviously cannot handle the idea that we might criticize elements and express concerns about the direction of the program.
Criticism is one thing Grizfan-24, and it's a fundamental aspect of "fandom" that I accept and, in fact encourage. Slander is something else entirely, and I believe some recent comments on this board are unfounded, unjustified and harmful to individuals and entire teams.

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Grizfan-24
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Re: Shannon???

Post by Grizfan-24 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:19 pm

GJ,

I understand and agree. This isn't hard hitting journalism and many people, including myself, don't check our sources enough. I think we trust who we trust.

I don't think we should go around and air all the dirty laundry regardless of who the coach is or the program. Some of the stuff is worthy of discussion and should be made public. Otherwise, like in the case of North Carolina women's program you should let the program and the athletic department handle its business and let the public disseminate the information later.

I more than anything else want to see the ship get righted and that goes beyond the chronic injury problems. The program is in a different place under Shannon, and doesn't seem to be nearly as tight or efficient as Robin. Shannon and the program have to get things right sooner or later.
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Full of double speak and clearly I have never played the game. Two thousand words where 10 would suffice.

Spanky2
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Re: Shannon???

Post by Spanky2 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:33 pm

I’m not an insider, so don’t know the problems, however, if it is true that her recruiting budget is $10,000, how can she be expected to have many good athletes?

PlayerRep
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Re: Shannon???

Post by PlayerRep » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:22 pm

grizzlyjournal wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:29 pm
Grizfan-24 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:12 pm
Why does it matter how many posts they have?

There are some pretty credible people on this board and elsewhere that have been verbalizing their concerns about the coaching for almost nearly two years now. For most of us who have heard rumors there is no solace or axe to grind, but rather a genuine concern about the direction of the program.

Yes she might be returning for another year, but that doesn't make everything right in whoville. There are legitimate concerns that go well beyond tactical on court issues that have been expressed by a number of different stakeholders. If she is in fact returning, I do hope those issues are finally put to bed.

As for the on the court stuff, I hope all the issues remedy themselves. I for one don't believe all the problems were or are injury related, and have reasons to believe they aren't.

I believe people can have a critical eye and not somehow sully the great name of a Lady Griz legend. I think both can exist, but as this conversation has drawn on since December, some obviously cannot handle the idea that we might criticize elements and express concerns about the direction of the program.
Criticism is one thing Grizfan-24, and it's a fundamental aspect of "fandom" that I accept and, in fact encourage. Slander is something else entirely, and I believe some recent comments on this board are unfounded, unjustified and harmful to individuals and entire teams.
Like what? I'm curious. Let's see some specifics.

You professed a month or so ago to not have even heard about some of the issues and criticisms related to the coach. You said you are not an insider. Now, magically, you know enough to know that some of what has been said is slander, unfounded and unjustified?

Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. Either you know what is going on, or you don't. Which is it?

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Grizfan-24
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Re: Shannon???

Post by Grizfan-24 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:41 pm

Spanky2 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:33 pm
I’m not an insider, so don’t know the problems, however, if it is true that her recruiting budget is $10,000, how can she be expected to have many good athletes?
That recruiting line has been pretty much standard for Robin's teams dating back to the early 2000's. Some years a bit higher, others a bit lower. Robin recruited differently and he was effective in how he went upon it. A strategy that worked well for him up until the last couple years of his tenure as head coach.

If Shannon and the staff wanted to expand their recruiting footprint, they could. They haven't however. Rather it appears much of the same that Robin used. That is my perspective obviously. What I do know however, is if the staff wanted to expand beyond the PNW and Montana, they could and it is highly unlikely that Haslam would say no. Rather, based upon my experience with college athletic departments, is okay, how are we going to pay for this?

You don't say no to a flagship program, if they want to enhance the program through recruiting. That isn't how you win games as an athletic department. Haslam has shown that he'll get things done if there is a benefit to improving programs. That budget is that way because it has been commonplace for the women's program to do that. Well within the power of Schweyen and the staff to change that.

I just don't know that Scheweyen and company have asked. That is merely an opinion, nothing based upon fact. Merely I am just inferring from the recruiting lines I have seen recently that the status quo has been maintained. It is of my belief that relying on Montana talent and the pacific northwest just isn't an effective long term strategy.
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Older pedestrian football analysis found here:
www.monidasports.blogspot.com

Full of double speak and clearly I have never played the game. Two thousand words where 10 would suffice.

ThinkingGriz
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Re: Shannon???

Post by ThinkingGriz » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:30 am

Grizfan-24 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:41 pm
Spanky2 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:33 pm
I’m not an insider, so don’t know the problems, however, if it is true that her recruiting budget is $10,000, how can she be expected to have many good athletes?
That recruiting line has been pretty much standard for Robin's teams dating back to the early 2000's. Some years a bit higher, others a bit lower. Robin recruited differently and he was effective in how he went upon it. A strategy that worked well for him up until the last couple years of his tenure as head coach.

If Shannon and the staff wanted to expand their recruiting footprint, they could. They haven't however. Rather it appears much of the same that Robin used. That is my perspective obviously. What I do know however, is if the staff wanted to expand beyond the PNW and Montana, they could and it is highly unlikely that Haslam would say no. Rather, based upon my experience with college athletic departments, is okay, how are we going to pay for this?

You don't say no to a flagship program, if they want to enhance the program through recruiting. That isn't how you win games as an athletic department. Haslam has shown that he'll get things done if there is a benefit to improving programs. That budget is that way because it has been commonplace for the women's program to do that. Well within the power of Schweyen and the staff to change that.

I just don't know that Scheweyen and company have asked. That is merely an opinion, nothing based upon fact. Merely I am just inferring from the recruiting lines I have seen recently that the status quo has been maintained. It is of my belief that relying on Montana talent and the pacific northwest just isn't an effective long term strategy.
That would be logical thinking if that were the case. But it is not...
Shannon has been recruiting in the Phoenix and southern California for years. Prime example was this weekend she was was on the same plane as Travis going far south to look at kids. Just as many northwestern kids were headed the same way to compete against the same kids you think we are lacking. As it is, a many number of our top athletes go to schools outside this region due to a high presence of truly top tier programs. Shannon gets to see them all.
That is a fact. Not just an opinion.

The advantage, I believe, Travis has is a big network of to draw from, and they like and trust him as well. Travis coaches his team well on and off the court. Travis is also a very giving guy to everyone around him. It is in his nature. This is my observation on how he does it.
Mike Patrino has a big respect that way as well. Very well connected but are we using that?
As far as "actual" recruiting budget that is interesting question.

717s7e
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Re: Shannon???

Post by 717s7e » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:26 pm

Title IX doesn't permit a disparity in recruiting budgets unless the coach insists on spending the money elsewhere.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by billingsgriz » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:06 pm

If Shannon has been recruiting Phoenix and Southern California for years, her 2018-19 roster sure does not reflect this.
On the 2018-19 roster, there were/are only 3 Lady Griz from outside the Inland Pacific NW:

Abby Anderson, a redshirt freshman 6-2 F from Hillsboro, Oregon, a Portland suburb

Sammy Fatkin, a 5-11 sophomore G from Snohomish, a small town in Western Washington

Katie Mayhue, a freshman 5-10 G from Albany, Oregon near Corvallis, home of Oregon State and the Tinkle's, where Katie originally committed to go to school. She has already entered the portal and is transferring out of UM.

The only girls of color playing on this year's team were Lee Camel, a 5-9 guard from Ronan that is Salish and from a great Griz family. And Jace Henderson, our great 6-0 post from here in Billings.

Gabi Harrington, a 5-9 Redshirt Sophomore Guard from Bishop Kelly in Boise is the Lady Griz from the largest city. While I love Boise, a thriving capital city that is home to Micron, Albertson's, and JR Simplot, and I am driving there in a few weeks to visit clients, it's population of 225,000 pales in comparison to Seattle and Tacoma, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, LA, San Diego, Phoenix, and Denver.

This year's Lady Griz have 0 African-American players, and black girls on the team have been a rarity for as long as I can remember.

To state my basic point again, if Shannon has been recruiting Southern California and Phoenix, her roster sure does not reflect it. Where are the California and Arizona players ? Where are the players from Seattle and Tacoma ?

Shannon, originally Shannon Cate, is from here in Billings and I want to see her do well and pick right up where Robin left off. She hasn't done that thus far, and for her to succeed, she needs to expand her recruiting footprint and take full advantage of the state-of-the-art training facilities for the Lady Griz at the Washington Champion's Center along with the latest training strategies and regimen to dramatically reduce the number of season-ending injuries the team has suffered during her tenure.

She needs to win more and lose less or in another 2-3 years, she will be a former Lady Griz head coach !!!
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717s7e
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Re: Shannon???

Post by 717s7e » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:31 pm

The folks in
Boise like to say that they are comparable to Spokane in size and that Boise now has a population of nearly 1 million when you include the 'burbs.

Spanky2
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Re: Shannon???

Post by Spanky2 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:00 pm

Probably true.

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Zirg
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Re: Shannon???

Post by Zirg » Wed May 01, 2019 12:05 am

reinell30 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:57 pm
Paytonlives wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:08 pm
astutegriz wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:27 pm
The decision was made. She’s back.
Again,
She only still at UM because of her playing days...

Her coaching is average at best.
I would like to see what she could do with a healthy team. She hasn't had her entire team healthy since she took over for Robin. She has always been without her "Star" player.
Exactly. She's been dealt a terrible hand every year by injuries (to top players). We still have no idea if she can coach, IMO.

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Zirg
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Re: Shannon???

Post by Zirg » Wed May 01, 2019 12:28 am

billingsgriz wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:06 pm
If Shannon has been recruiting Phoenix and Southern California for years, her 2018-19 roster sure does not reflect this.
On the 2018-19 roster, there were/are only 3 Lady Griz from outside the Inland Pacific NW:

Abby Anderson, a redshirt freshman 6-2 F from Hillsboro, Oregon, a Portland suburb

Sammy Fatkin, a 5-11 sophomore G from Snohomish, a small town in Western Washington

Katie Mayhue, a freshman 5-10 G from Albany, Oregon near Corvallis, home of Oregon State and the Tinkle's, where Katie originally committed to go to school. She has already entered the portal and is transferring out of UM.

The only girls of color playing on this year's team were Lee Camel, a 5-9 guard from Ronan that is Salish and from a great Griz family. And Jace Henderson, our great 6-0 post from here in Billings.

Gabi Harrington, a 5-9 Redshirt Sophomore Guard from Bishop Kelly in Boise is the Lady Griz from the largest city. While I love Boise, a thriving capital city that is home to Micron, Albertson's, and JR Simplot, and I am driving there in a few weeks to visit clients, it's population of 225,000 pales in comparison to Seattle and Tacoma, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, LA, San Diego, Phoenix, and Denver.

This year's Lady Griz have 0 African-American players, and black girls on the team have been a rarity for as long as I can remember.

To state my basic point again, if Shannon has been recruiting Southern California and Phoenix, her roster sure does not reflect it. Where are the California and Arizona players ? Where are the players from Seattle and Tacoma ?

Shannon, originally Shannon Cate, is from here in Billings and I want to see her do well and pick right up where Robin left off. She hasn't done that thus far, and for her to succeed, she needs to expand her recruiting footprint and take full advantage of the state-of-the-art training facilities for the Lady Griz at the Washington Champion's Center along with the latest training strategies and regimen to dramatically reduce the number of season-ending injuries the team has suffered during her tenure.

She needs to win more and lose less or in another 2-3 years, she will be a former Lady Griz head coach !!!
Nobody complained when Selvig's Lady Griz won every year with an almost all-white team year after year. He only had one black player in his entire 38 year career that I know of (Vicki Austin) but he DID try to recruit others, including Lisa Leslie, believe it or not. She never responded back. He gave up trying to recruit big cities as he was a small-town Montana hick (with a limited budget to start with) and got the best recruits he could and his superior coaching style worked with whoever he got. Shannon was his only real "national coup" ever. Vivian Stringer of Iowa/Rutgers tried to recruit Shannon out of hs, but similarly failed, and then was later infamously mocked by radio Dj Don Imus for only having "inner city" girls on Rutgers, although he used worse terms. So is Vivian racist for not having more (any) white girls on her team? Nobody would ever say that. You recruit girls that you can relate to and work with usually relatively close to your school. Every coach does.

Robin did recruit and play more Native Americans than any D1 basketball coach in America (men or womens) during his era, and I challenge anyone to provide contradictory proof.

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Re: Shannon???

Post by BWahlberg » Wed May 01, 2019 8:57 am

Zirg wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 12:05 am
reinell30 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:57 pm
Paytonlives wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:08 pm
astutegriz wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:27 pm
The decision was made. She’s back.
Again,
She only still at UM because of her playing days...

Her coaching is average at best.
I would like to see what she could do with a healthy team. She hasn't had her entire team healthy since she took over for Robin. She has always been without her "Star" player.
Exactly. She's been dealt a terrible hand every year by injuries (to top players). We still have no idea if she can coach, IMO.
At what point does this go from "being dealt a terrible hand every year" to examining more about the current training, conditioning, dietary planning, injury prevention, etc? I get freak things happen but these last 3 years are unprecedented in terms of what has occurred. Is it just bad luck, or is it something more?
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PlayerRep
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Re: Shannon???

Post by PlayerRep » Wed May 01, 2019 9:34 am

Zirg wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 12:28 am
billingsgriz wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:06 pm
If Shannon has been recruiting Phoenix and Southern California for years, her 2018-19 roster sure does not reflect this.
On the 2018-19 roster, there were/are only 3 Lady Griz from outside the Inland Pacific NW:

Abby Anderson, a redshirt freshman 6-2 F from Hillsboro, Oregon, a Portland suburb

Sammy Fatkin, a 5-11 sophomore G from Snohomish, a small town in Western Washington

Katie Mayhue, a freshman 5-10 G from Albany, Oregon near Corvallis, home of Oregon State and the Tinkle's, where Katie originally committed to go to school. She has already entered the portal and is transferring out of UM.

The only girls of color playing on this year's team were Lee Camel, a 5-9 guard from Ronan that is Salish and from a great Griz family. And Jace Henderson, our great 6-0 post from here in Billings.

Gabi Harrington, a 5-9 Redshirt Sophomore Guard from Bishop Kelly in Boise is the Lady Griz from the largest city. While I love Boise, a thriving capital city that is home to Micron, Albertson's, and JR Simplot, and I am driving there in a few weeks to visit clients, it's population of 225,000 pales in comparison to Seattle and Tacoma, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, LA, San Diego, Phoenix, and Denver.

This year's Lady Griz have 0 African-American players, and black girls on the team have been a rarity for as long as I can remember.

To state my basic point again, if Shannon has been recruiting Southern California and Phoenix, her roster sure does not reflect it. Where are the California and Arizona players ? Where are the players from Seattle and Tacoma ?

Shannon, originally Shannon Cate, is from here in Billings and I want to see her do well and pick right up where Robin left off. She hasn't done that thus far, and for her to succeed, she needs to expand her recruiting footprint and take full advantage of the state-of-the-art training facilities for the Lady Griz at the Washington Champion's Center along with the latest training strategies and regimen to dramatically reduce the number of season-ending injuries the team has suffered during her tenure.

She needs to win more and lose less or in another 2-3 years, she will be a former Lady Griz head coach !!!
Nobody complained when Selvig's Lady Griz won every year with an almost all-white team year after year. He only had one black player in his entire 38 year career that I know of (Vicki Austin) but he DID try to recruit others, including Lisa Leslie, believe it or not. She never responded back. He gave up trying to recruit big cities as he was a small-town Montana hick (with a limited budget to start with) and got the best recruits he could and his superior coaching style worked with whoever he got. Shannon was his only real "national coup" ever. Vivian Stringer of Iowa/Rutgers tried to recruit Shannon out of hs, but similarly failed, and then was later infamously mocked by radio Dj Don Imus for only having "inner city" girls on Rutgers, although he used worse terms. So is Vivian racist for not having more (any) white girls on her team? Nobody would ever say that. You recruit girls that you can relate to and work with usually relatively close to your school. Every coach does.

Robin did recruit and play more Native Americans than any D1 basketball coach in America (men or womens) during his era, and I challenge anyone to provide contradictory proof.
And Shaunte, AJ's, wife.

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