Perhaps a stupid question

I am not one to question coaches or complain much. I like Travis and believe he is as good or better than any coach UM has had, taking into account recruiting, coaching, and results.

Nevertheless, I wonder if the team is being over coached at this point. The Griz were just off a bit for the whole game tonight. Hesitant at times. Often slow to get into the offense and attack.

I know PSU's defense and full court press tends to throw teams off their rhythm. Travis said that on the radio pre-game.

PSU played well, Woods was very good, the refs gave him a lot of free throws, the other PSU players played their roles, their defense was good and aggressive, and they attacked the offensive boards. However, I didn't think PSU was that good of a team.

I felt that the Griz should have thumped them.

I also felt that the Griz would have beaten PSU by 30 in an uncoached pickup game. The Griz have way more talent than PSU.

I know Travis likes the players to play their roles, to take good shots, and to play great defense. I'm fine with that. In fact, I like that. But, at this point of the season, and with a game against an aggressive defensive team that tries to knock you out of your flow, I'm not sure that it was clear to the Griz exactly what their roles were tonight. The Griz seemed too hesitant and too slow to get into the offense and attack, at times.

Travis must not have liked something about Falls play, and also took Moorehead out at times.

It's not exactly like the other players were kicking ass all game. Only Manuel in first half, and Oguine at beginning of second half when he was being fed down low. And Akoh at various times. His getting his 4th foul caused him to have to be less aggressive.

I don't know how good Dorsey is, but I would play him more.

Attendance was 4400.

Like I said, perhaps a stupid question, or stupid comment.

Still believe the Griz will likely win the conference.

Losses like this happen all the time in basketball. 4 games in 8 days combined with a long arduous road trip doesn't help. Shooting 20.8% from 3 doesn't help and missing easy shots inside doesn't help either, but those things happen. When we lit it up the other night we tend to think we are better than we are and when we lose to a team with only 3 division 1 wins it is natural to think we aren't very good. We are an average 3 point shooting team and to make any run in the Big Sky tournament that has to improve, our free throw shooting has to improve also and so must our defense. If we can't stop penetration without fouling we will not win the conference. Riding on last years laurels will not get it done.

I think 4 games in 8 days...players needed to test last game up 20+. Only a couple minutes at the end...maybe a bit tired

Woods is averaging only about 15 per game. Was 3-15 and 1-8 against MSU. 10-10 in free throws. 17 points.

I see that PSU has been a strong rebounding ream and very strong in offensive rebounds.

Saw in article that coach said they had had injuries and were finally back to full strength last night.

Some of their losses have been to Oregon, Stanford, BYU, and Santa Barbara. Maybe they are better than I gave them credit for.

I'm not really all that surprised we lost to them last night. If I remember correctly, we beat them by about 10 or 15 or so last year at home. When we played them in Portland last year, the game looked more like this one and i think in the end the Griz ended up winning by 5 or so. Could be the Griz just had an off night too. Who knows.

With regards to the OP, I felt the same last year about potentially being over coached with regards to the issues with scoring (at times) last year.

PlayerRep said:

...
Saw in article that coach said they had had injuries and were finally back to full strength last night.

Some of their losses have been to Oregon, Stanford, BYU, and Santa Barbara. Maybe they are better than I gave them credit for.

Click to expand...

Portland State has a low RPI ... 247 even with the win. But they have a SOS rank at 138. The games you listed feed directly into those numbers: Good for the SOS, bad for RPI because they didn't win any of them.

As expected, the SOS for the Griz – now ranked 174 – has dropped substantially since they started conference games. But, because they were winning, the RPI stayed pretty good ... in the 70s. This loss was a major kick in the croakies ... RPI dropped to 115.

MissoulaMarinerFan said:

I'm not really all that surprised we lost to them last night. If I remember correctly, we beat them by about 10 or 15 or so last year at home. When we played them in Portland last year, the game looked more like this one and i think in the end the Griz ended up winning by 5 or so. Could be the Griz just had an off night too. Who knows.

Click to expand...

UM clearly had an off night. My OP was more of a question about whether something else caused UM not t be able to overcome an off night. I'm not overly concerned about anything or the team.

I addressed a few things in the game thread. I have some concerns and questions too.

mtgrizrule said:

I addressed a few things in the game thread. I have some concerns and questions too.

Click to expand...

I pulled some of your post over here to this thread. I have a lot of the same questions.

"(1) Manuel is emerging as a weapon off the bench, that can score from all 3 levels, and drain FT's at a great clip too.

(2) After a loss and showing like that of the PSU game, this tea has ZERO choice, but to have it serve as motivation that will be served all season. I fully expect no more "let down" games. I expect a few conference losses, but not getting beat by the little things.

Now the difficult part, which I hate after a game like this one, concerns, critiques, etc

(1) How could only 1 key rotational player show up ready for this game? Kendal Manuel saved this team from a double digit more embarrassing loss. Speaking of him, with the way the game played out, why wasn't he on the court more, with the ball in his hands. Rather it be coaching, or lack of team play, he was the hot hand, and ZERO reason to not let him continue his great performance down the stretch. PSU had a hot hand in Woods, they kept letting him go to work on the GRIZ, and because of it, PSU pulled off an upset. If it was coaching, I know, Travis will learn from it. If it was the ego of other players, then there is a problem. One that needs addressed right now!!!! Either way, Manuel earned the right to be "The Man" in the 2nd half, being his teammates were struggling. Next time that happens, let whoever the player is go to work!!!

(2) Where was the fire and normal passion from Falls? He goes from giving us a glimpse of the kind of creator and player he is best at, being a terrific distributor and taking key shots to being a non factor in the next game?????? When he is on his game, the offense is at it's best when he can set up his teammates. Yet, why not let him create in this game?

(3) Why not more minutes for Dorsey? He played great against Sac State, and looked pretty solid in his few minutes against PSU, all in the 1st half? He has the talent to do what Manuel does, and be a huge factor coming off the bench. Speaking of minutes, let's touch on that.

(4) For awhile now, Coach DeCuire has mentioned his concerns over 4 games in 8 days. I do agree, that is a huge concern and obstacle. However, why magnify that problem and only use a 6 man rotation in the 2nd half? I can see that, if the key players were on their games. That wasn't the case against PSU. Rorie, Oguine, Pridgett, Moorehead, Falls, Akoh were not on their games, and the pace PSU plays at magnified the lack of energy in them. Meanwhile, Manuel was on fire, and plenty rested to play more. Dorsey was coming off a great game, and appeared ready for a more minutes and bigger role. With the way PSU was beating the GRIZ inside with penetration, and doubling Akoh, I think a few minutes to any combination of our young bigs would have helped preserve Akoh down the stretch, and given more of 1st half, or early 2nd half defensive and rebounding presence.

(5) Why aren't Oguine, Rorie, Pridgett, and Falls penetrating more often, and looking to create more, not only in this game, but this season in general, like last season? Manuel was the only one looking for that, and look at the results. This team is at it's best when those guys are creating.

(6) Why is Bobby Moorehead the only regular who doesn't shy away from taking big shots down the stretch in clutch situations? I admire his willingness, attitude, etc, but the likes of the All Conference players need to be more willingly take on that challenge, when needed. If not them, the hot hand. In this case, Manuel. I applaud, the fact that he was part of the plan in the last possession. My question is, why wait until then? Why not continue to go to him more in the 2nd half?

(7) What is with the FT shooting? There is ZERO reason for this team to not shoot 75% from the FT line.

(8) Will this game serve as motivation, or take away their confidence? I am betting on the motivation. I hope they get it back together, soon!"

PlayerRep said:

I am not one to question coaches or complain much. I like Travis and believe he is as good or better than any coach UM has had, taking into account recruiting, coaching, and results.

Nevertheless, I wonder if the team is being over coached at this point. The Griz were just off a bit for the whole game tonight. Hesitant at times. Often slow to get into the offense and attack.

I know PSU's defense and full court press tends to throw teams off their rhythm. Travis said that on the radio pre-game.

PSU played well, Woods was very good, the refs gave him a lot of free throws, the other PSU players played their roles, their defense was good and aggressive, and they attacked the offensive boards. However, I didn't think PSU was that good of a team.

I felt that the Griz should have thumped them.

I also felt that the Griz would have beaten PSU by 30 in an uncoached pickup game. The Griz have way more talent than PSU.

I know Travis likes the players to play their roles, to take good shots, and to play great defense. I'm fine with that. In fact, I like that. But, at this point of the season, and with a game against an aggressive defensive team that tries to knock you out of your flow, I'm not sure that it was clear to the Griz exactly what their roles were tonight. The Griz seemed too hesitant and too slow to get into the offense and attack, at times.

Click to expand...

I was very critical of Travis' repoire (sp?) with refs in past years, but I think he has improved by staying calmer and not going "ape-shit" and raining obscenities on the refs like he did a few times early in his career. I DO think, this game in particular, he should have been more adamant about Woods' blatant Clown-show flopping and dramatics (which directly affected the outcome), but overall I like the new calmer Travis. There is always a time and place to go "ape-shit" and let the refs know I am not happy with the way things are going, but the rarer you do it, the more affective your rant will be. Unless you are Coach K, who goes "ape-shit" about almost every call against him and intimidates refs into calls more than any coach in the history of b-ball, it won't help most young coaches dealing with veteran refs by screaming obscenities at them, and again, I think Travis has come a long ways in that regard.