citay said:Basketball is definitely on the rise at Montana.
In football, an FCS championship is the limit: Second-rate championship played to low ratings with little national attention on a cable channel.
In basketball, the sky's the limit: A truly national championship played out to high ratings and incredible interest on a broadcast channel.
If we ever gets a taste of that success, say an appearance at the Sweet Sixteen, Montana will be hooked on basketball for good.
And the way DeCuire is building this program, it could happen.
citay said:Basketball is definitely on the rise at Montana.
In football, an FCS championship is the limit: Second-rate championship played to low ratings with little national attention on a cable channel.
In basketball, the sky's the limit: A truly national championship played out to high ratings and nationwide interest on a broadcast channel.
If we ever gets a taste of that success, say an appearance at the Sweet Sixteen, Montana will be hooked on basketball for good.
citay said:Basketball is definitely on the rise at Montana.
In football, an FCS championship is the limit: Second-rate championship played to low ratings with little national attention on a cable channel.
In basketball, the sky's the limit: A truly national championship played out to high ratings and incredible interest on a broadcast channel.
If we ever gets a taste of that success, say an appearance at the Sweet Sixteen, Montana will be hooked on basketball for good.
PlayerRep said:citay said:Basketball is definitely on the rise at Montana.
In football, an FCS championship is the limit: Second-rate championship played to low ratings with little national attention on a cable channel.
In basketball, the sky's the limit: A truly national championship played out to high ratings and incredible interest on a broadcast channel.
If we ever gets a taste of that success, say an appearance at the Sweet Sixteen, Montana will be hooked on basketball for good.
I disagree on the FCS championship. It's a very nice championship, and not easy to achieve. The last FCS championship was played on ESPN2.
"1.515 million viewers between 11 a.m. and 2:18 p.m. Central, when the game ended on ESPN2."
"The FCS game outdrew two college basketball games on ESPN on Saturday: North Carolina/Virginia (1.297 million viewers) and Duke/North Carolina State (1.22 million)."
"JMU-Youngstown State title matchup a year ago ... drew 1.563 million average viewers."
"NDSU’s most-watched TV game was an FCS quarterfinal matchup against South Dakota State in December 2016 that had an average of 1.984 million people watching."
Contrast that to the Michigan v. MT game on TBS, which I believe drew 1.889 million. [didn't link this source]
https://mcfeely.areavoices.com/2018/01/09/win-over-james-madison-gets-bison-biggest-title-game-tv-ratings/
citay said:PlayerRep said:citay said:Basketball is definitely on the rise at Montana.
In football, an FCS championship is the limit: Second-rate championship played to low ratings with little national attention on a cable channel.
In basketball, the sky's the limit: A truly national championship played out to high ratings and incredible interest on a broadcast channel.
If we ever gets a taste of that success, say an appearance at the Sweet Sixteen, Montana will be hooked on basketball for good.
I disagree on the FCS championship. It's a very nice championship, and not easy to achieve. The last FCS championship was played on ESPN2.
"1.515 million viewers between 11 a.m. and 2:18 p.m. Central, when the game ended on ESPN2."
"The FCS game outdrew two college basketball games on ESPN on Saturday: North Carolina/Virginia (1.297 million viewers) and Duke/North Carolina State (1.22 million)."
"JMU-Youngstown State title matchup a year ago ... drew 1.563 million average viewers."
"NDSU’s most-watched TV game was an FCS quarterfinal matchup against South Dakota State in December 2016 that had an average of 1.984 million people watching."
Contrast that to the Michigan v. MT game on TBS, which I believe drew 1.889 million. [didn't link this source]
https://mcfeely.areavoices.com/2018/01/09/win-over-james-madison-gets-bison-biggest-title-game-tv-ratings/
PR: I'm not talking about another one-and-done here. God knows we've had enough of those these past decades--UNLV, Florida State, Oregon, Wisconsin, Syracuse, Michigan. That won't move the needle. But when we beat Nevada, and came within a half of beating Boston College to get to the Sweet 16, that showed us the potential for basketball. We got tons of press, and plenty of national air time. And it would have escalated had we made it to the Sweet 16. Please remember:
1. Unlike a Division 1-AA National Championship, the Big Dance is a huge national sporting event--for many of my friends, more important even than the Super Bowl. It's an occasion for office pools, profiles in national publications on all the schools, human interest stories ad nauseum, and constant constant attention on ESPN and the other sports channels. It arrives at the point that football is over, the NBA schedule is going through its doldrums, and the baseball season hasn't yet started. Thus the Big Dance fills a huge void, and has almost no competition for the National Sports Attention.
2. Remember, I'm talking Sweet 16 here, not the ratings for a one-and-done on TBS. And while I can't access those number right here, I know the numbers for the Sweet 16 increase significantly, to something in the range of five to six million viewers per game. And for the Final Four, the numbers in 2017 soared to 23 million when the game was on CBS, but dropped to a combined 16 million this year when the championship games aired on three cable channels.
My point is, basketball at the Division One level provides the OPPORTUNITY for massive exposure, a la Gonzaga or Creighton or Loyola of Chicago, teams that performed well in the national glare. But the way our football program is structured, there is no chance for much national exposure. And while you say it is a "very nice championship, and not easy to achieve," I would argue that ANY championship is very nice and not easy to achieve, whether Little League, PONY league, church league, YMCA. It's a matter of exposure.
PlayerRep said:citay said:PlayerRep said:citay said:Basketball is definitely on the rise at Montana.
In football, an FCS championship is the limit: Second-rate championship played to low ratings with little national attention on a cable channel.
In basketball, the sky's the limit: A truly national championship played out to high ratings and incredible interest on a broadcast channel.
If we ever gets a taste of that success, say an appearance at the Sweet Sixteen, Montana will be hooked on basketball for good.
I disagree on the FCS championship. It's a very nice championship, and not easy to achieve. The last FCS championship was played on ESPN2.
"1.515 million viewers between 11 a.m. and 2:18 p.m. Central, when the game ended on ESPN2."
"The FCS game outdrew two college basketball games on ESPN on Saturday: North Carolina/Virginia (1.297 million viewers) and Duke/North Carolina State (1.22 million)."
"JMU-Youngstown State title matchup a year ago ... drew 1.563 million average viewers."
"NDSU’s most-watched TV game was an FCS quarterfinal matchup against South Dakota State in December 2016 that had an average of 1.984 million people watching."
Contrast that to the Michigan v. MT game on TBS, which I believe drew 1.889 million. [didn't link this source]
https://mcfeely.areavoices.com/2018/01/09/win-over-james-madison-gets-bison-biggest-title-game-tv-ratings/
PR: I'm not talking about another one-and-done here. God knows we've had enough of those these past decades--UNLV, Florida State, Oregon, Wisconsin, Syracuse, Michigan. That won't move the needle. But when we beat Nevada, and came within a half of beating Boston College to get to the Sweet 16, that showed us the potential for basketball. We got tons of press, and plenty of national air time. And it would have escalated had we made it to the Sweet 16. Please remember:
1. Unlike a Division 1-AA National Championship, the Big Dance is a huge national sporting event--for many of my friends, more important even than the Super Bowl. It's an occasion for office pools, profiles in national publications on all the schools, human interest stories ad nauseum, and constant constant attention on ESPN and the other sports channels. It arrives at the point that football is over, the NBA schedule is going through its doldrums, and the baseball season hasn't yet started. Thus the Big Dance fills a huge void, and has almost no competition for the National Sports Attention.
2. Remember, I'm talking Sweet 16 here, not the ratings for a one-and-done on TBS. And while I can't access those number right here, I know the numbers for the Sweet 16 increase significantly, to something in the range of five to six million viewers per game. And for the Final Four, the numbers in 2017 soared to 23 million when the game was on CBS, but dropped to a combined 16 million this year when the championship games aired on three cable channels.
My point is, basketball at the Division One level provides the OPPORTUNITY for massive exposure, a la Gonzaga or Creighton or Loyola of Chicago, teams that performed well in the national glare. But the way our football program is structured, there is no chance for much national exposure. And while you say it is a "very nice championship, and not easy to achieve," I would argue that ANY championship is very nice and not easy to achieve, whether Little League, PONY league, church league, YMCA. It's a matter of exposure.
I know all that. However, the chances of UM getting to the Sweet 16 are very remote, in my view. The chances of advancing in the FCS football playoffs are much better and have been done many times in the past. I don't see why you need to denigrate or minimize the accomplishments and thrill of advancing in the FCS playoffs, and even to the national championship game, to discuss your goal for UM basketball. I didn't come back at your post calling it pie in the sky. Perhaps you could show more respect for Griz football and FCS.
As for national exposure, personally, I couldn't care less about that. For me, it's joy of following or playing the sport--for myself, and the players and others--not the number of people watching on tv. It's the games, the guys, and the accomplishment (hopefully success).
I played in front of 60,000 people. I played on ABC TV every year. I played in the biggest ABC game of the week, with the no. 1 ABC crew. That was fun, and I can mention it in times like this. But what I got out of the game and get out of following the Griz and Dartmouth/Stanford now, have nothing to do with how many people watched on tv, or the ratings. It was the comradery, the sense of accomplishment, the lessons learned, etc. It is the friends and connections I made. These continue to provide joy, as well as push/pull me along in my professional life. I now enjoy seeing "my" teams work to achieve success each year. It can be thrilling to share their successes. It's fun knowing a few of them and their parents, and the coaches. It's fun stopping at practice. It's fun getting to know other Griz fans.
To me, as a former player and now fan, winning the FCS championship would be every bit as good as winning the FBS championship.
debellatio said:PlayerRep said:citay said:PlayerRep said:I disagree on the FCS championship. It's a very nice championship, and not easy to achieve. The last FCS championship was played on ESPN2.
"1.515 million viewers between 11 a.m. and 2:18 p.m. Central, when the game ended on ESPN2."
"The FCS game outdrew two college basketball games on ESPN on Saturday: North Carolina/Virginia (1.297 million viewers) and Duke/North Carolina State (1.22 million)."
"JMU-Youngstown State title matchup a year ago ... drew 1.563 million average viewers."
"NDSU’s most-watched TV game was an FCS quarterfinal matchup against South Dakota State in December 2016 that had an average of 1.984 million people watching."
Contrast that to the Michigan v. MT game on TBS, which I believe drew 1.889 million. [didn't link this source]
https://mcfeely.areavoices.com/2018/01/09/win-over-james-madison-gets-bison-biggest-title-game-tv-ratings/
PR: I'm not talking about another one-and-done here. God knows we've had enough of those these past decades--UNLV, Florida State, Oregon, Wisconsin, Syracuse, Michigan. That won't move the needle. But when we beat Nevada, and came within a half of beating Boston College to get to the Sweet 16, that showed us the potential for basketball. We got tons of press, and plenty of national air time. And it would have escalated had we made it to the Sweet 16. Please remember:
1. Unlike a Division 1-AA National Championship, the Big Dance is a huge national sporting event--for many of my friends, more important even than the Super Bowl. It's an occasion for office pools, profiles in national publications on all the schools, human interest stories ad nauseum, and constant constant attention on ESPN and the other sports channels. It arrives at the point that football is over, the NBA schedule is going through its doldrums, and the baseball season hasn't yet started. Thus the Big Dance fills a huge void, and has almost no competition for the National Sports Attention.
2. Remember, I'm talking Sweet 16 here, not the ratings for a one-and-done on TBS. And while I can't access those number right here, I know the numbers for the Sweet 16 increase significantly, to something in the range of five to six million viewers per game. And for the Final Four, the numbers in 2017 soared to 23 million when the game was on CBS, but dropped to a combined 16 million this year when the championship games aired on three cable channels.
My point is, basketball at the Division One level provides the OPPORTUNITY for massive exposure, a la Gonzaga or Creighton or Loyola of Chicago, teams that performed well in the national glare. But the way our football program is structured, there is no chance for much national exposure. And while you say it is a "very nice championship, and not easy to achieve," I would argue that ANY championship is very nice and not easy to achieve, whether Little League, PONY league, church league, YMCA. It's a matter of exposure.
I know all that. However, the chances of UM getting to the Sweet 16 are very remote, in my view. The chances of advancing in the FCS football playoffs are much better and have been done many times in the past. I don't see why you need to denigrate or minimize the accomplishments and thrill of advancing in the FCS playoffs, and even to the national championship game, to discuss your goal for UM basketball. I didn't come back at your post calling it pie in the sky. Perhaps you could show more respect for Griz football and FCS.
As for national exposure, personally, I couldn't care less about that. For me, it's joy of following or playing the sport--for myself, and the players and others--not the number of people watching on tv. It's the games, the guys, and the accomplishment (hopefully success).
I played in front of 60,000 people. I played on ABC TV every year. I played in the biggest ABC game of the week, with the no. 1 ABC crew. That was fun, and I can mention it in times like this. But what I got out of the game and get out of following the Griz and Dartmouth/Stanford now, have nothing to do with how many people watched on tv, or the ratings. It was the comradery, the sense of accomplishment, the lessons learned, etc. It is the friends and connections I made. These continue to provide joy, as well as push/pull me along in my professional life. I now enjoy seeing "my" teams work to achieve success each year. It can be thrilling to share their successes. It's fun knowing a few of them and their parents, and the coaches. It's fun stopping at practice. It's fun getting to know other Griz fans.
To me, as a former player and now fan, winning the FCS championship would be every bit as good as winning the FBS championship.
I believe you guys are talking from 2 different view points. Citay is talking from a University point of view and PlayerRep is coming from a participants point of view. I agree with both of your statements when I look at it in that respect.
PlayerRep said:debellatio said:PlayerRep said:citay said:PR: I'm not talking about another one-and-done here. God knows we've had enough of those these past decades--UNLV, Florida State, Oregon, Wisconsin, Syracuse, Michigan. That won't move the needle. But when we beat Nevada, and came within a half of beating Boston College to get to the Sweet 16, that showed us the potential for basketball. We got tons of press, and plenty of national air time. And it would have escalated had we made it to the Sweet 16. Please remember:
1. Unlike a Division 1-AA National Championship, the Big Dance is a huge national sporting event--for many of my friends, more important even than the Super Bowl. It's an occasion for office pools, profiles in national publications on all the schools, human interest stories ad nauseum, and constant constant attention on ESPN and the other sports channels. It arrives at the point that football is over, the NBA schedule is going through its doldrums, and the baseball season hasn't yet started. Thus the Big Dance fills a huge void, and has almost no competition for the National Sports Attention.
2. Remember, I'm talking Sweet 16 here, not the ratings for a one-and-done on TBS. And while I can't access those number right here, I know the numbers for the Sweet 16 increase significantly, to something in the range of five to six million viewers per game. And for the Final Four, the numbers in 2017 soared to 23 million when the game was on CBS, but dropped to a combined 16 million this year when the championship games aired on three cable channels.
My point is, basketball at the Division One level provides the OPPORTUNITY for massive exposure, a la Gonzaga or Creighton or Loyola of Chicago, teams that performed well in the national glare. But the way our football program is structured, there is no chance for much national exposure. And while you say it is a "very nice championship, and not easy to achieve," I would argue that ANY championship is very nice and not easy to achieve, whether Little League, PONY league, church league, YMCA. It's a matter of exposure.
I know all that. However, the chances of UM getting to the Sweet 16 are very remote, in my view. The chances of advancing in the FCS football playoffs are much better and have been done many times in the past. I don't see why you need to denigrate or minimize the accomplishments and thrill of advancing in the FCS playoffs, and even to the national championship game, to discuss your goal for UM basketball. I didn't come back at your post calling it pie in the sky. Perhaps you could show more respect for Griz football and FCS.
As for national exposure, personally, I couldn't care less about that. For me, it's joy of following or playing the sport--for myself, and the players and others--not the number of people watching on tv. It's the games, the guys, and the accomplishment (hopefully success).
I played in front of 60,000 people. I played on ABC TV every year. I played in the biggest ABC game of the week, with the no. 1 ABC crew. That was fun, and I can mention it in times like this. But what I got out of the game and get out of following the Griz and Dartmouth/Stanford now, have nothing to do with how many people watched on tv, or the ratings. It was the comradery, the sense of accomplishment, the lessons learned, etc. It is the friends and connections I made. These continue to provide joy, as well as push/pull me along in my professional life. I now enjoy seeing "my" teams work to achieve success each year. It can be thrilling to share their successes. It's fun knowing a few of them and their parents, and the coaches. It's fun stopping at practice. It's fun getting to know other Griz fans.
To me, as a former player and now fan, winning the FCS championship would be every bit as good as winning the FBS championship.
I believe you guys are talking from 2 different view points. Citay is talking from a University point of view and PlayerRep is coming from a participants point of view. I agree with both of your statements when I look at it in that respect.
Perhaps partially true, but I am also talking from the university viewpoint too. I believe the mission of a university is to educate and produce graduates equipped to deal with whatever they decide to do in life. Part of education is sport. But I don't believe the mission of a school like UM is to go to the Sweet 16 in basketball, or move to FBS in football. That would take and divert too many resources, especially financial ones.
I agree with citay that it is good and important to continue to grow, but that can be done in multiple ways and getting to the Sweet 16 is not the way I think UM should grow. Jeez, only 16 schools get the Sweet 16 every year. Are the thousands of other schools "dying" by not getting to the Sweet 16..
Had UM gone to the WAC, which is right before the WAC folded, UM would have been screwed. Thanks god that didn't occur.
PlayerRep said:citay said:PlayerRep said:citay said:Basketball is definitely on the rise at Montana.
In football, an FCS championship is the limit: Second-rate championship played to low ratings with little national attention on a cable channel.
In basketball, the sky's the limit: A truly national championship played out to high ratings and incredible interest on a broadcast channel.
If we ever gets a taste of that success, say an appearance at the Sweet Sixteen, Montana will be hooked on basketball for good.
I disagree on the FCS championship. It's a very nice championship, and not easy to achieve. The last FCS championship was played on ESPN2.
"1.515 million viewers between 11 a.m. and 2:18 p.m. Central, when the game ended on ESPN2."
"The FCS game outdrew two college basketball games on ESPN on Saturday: North Carolina/Virginia (1.297 million viewers) and Duke/North Carolina State (1.22 million)."
"JMU-Youngstown State title matchup a year ago ... drew 1.563 million average viewers."
"NDSU’s most-watched TV game was an FCS quarterfinal matchup against South Dakota State in December 2016 that had an average of 1.984 million people watching."
Contrast that to the Michigan v. MT game on TBS, which I believe drew 1.889 million. [didn't link this source]
https://mcfeely.areavoices.com/2018/01/09/win-over-james-madison-gets-bison-biggest-title-game-tv-ratings/
PR: I'm not talking about another one-and-done here. God knows we've had enough of those these past decades--UNLV, Florida State, Oregon, Wisconsin, Syracuse, Michigan. That won't move the needle. But when we beat Nevada, and came within a half of beating Boston College to get to the Sweet 16, that showed us the potential for basketball. We got tons of press, and plenty of national air time. And it would have escalated had we made it to the Sweet 16. Please remember:
1. Unlike a Division 1-AA National Championship, the Big Dance is a huge national sporting event--for many of my friends, more important even than the Super Bowl. It's an occasion for office pools, profiles in national publications on all the schools, human interest stories ad nauseum, and constant constant attention on ESPN and the other sports channels. It arrives at the point that football is over, the NBA schedule is going through its doldrums, and the baseball season hasn't yet started. Thus the Big Dance fills a huge void, and has almost no competition for the National Sports Attention.
2. Remember, I'm talking Sweet 16 here, not the ratings for a one-and-done on TBS. And while I can't access those number right here, I know the numbers for the Sweet 16 increase significantly, to something in the range of five to six million viewers per game. And for the Final Four, the numbers in 2017 soared to 23 million when the game was on CBS, but dropped to a combined 16 million this year when the championship games aired on three cable channels.
My point is, basketball at the Division One level provides the OPPORTUNITY for massive exposure, a la Gonzaga or Creighton or Loyola of Chicago, teams that performed well in the national glare. But the way our football program is structured, there is no chance for much national exposure. And while you say it is a "very nice championship, and not easy to achieve," I would argue that ANY championship is very nice and not easy to achieve, whether Little League, PONY league, church league, YMCA. It's a matter of exposure.
I know all that. However, the chances of UM getting to the Sweet 16 are very remote, in my view. The chances of advancing in the FCS football playoffs are much better and have been done many times in the past. I don't see why you need to denigrate or minimize the accomplishments and thrill of advancing in the FCS playoffs, and even to the national championship game, to discuss your goal for UM basketball. I didn't come back at your post calling it pie in the sky. Perhaps you could show more respect for Griz football and FCS.
As for national exposure, personally, I couldn't care less about that. For me, it's joy of following or playing the sport--for myself, and the players and others--not the number of people watching on tv. It's the games, the guys, and the accomplishment (hopefully success).
I played in front of 60,000 people. I played on ABC TV every year. I played in the biggest ABC game of the week, with the no. 1 ABC crew. That was fun, and I can mention it in times like this. But what I got out of the game and get out of following the Griz and Dartmouth/Stanford now, have nothing to do with how many people watched on tv, or the ratings. It was the comradery, the sense of accomplishment, the lessons learned, etc. It is the friends and connections I made. These continue to provide joy, as well as push/pull me along in my professional life. I now enjoy seeing "my" teams work to achieve success each year. It can be thrilling to share their successes. It's fun knowing a few of them and their parents, and the coaches. It's fun stopping at practice. It's fun getting to know other Griz fans.
To me, as a former player and now fan, winning the FCS championship would be every bit as good as winning the FBS championship.
citay said:One other disagreement I have with you PR is your contention that it is a pipe dream for us to make it to the Sweet 16. I don't think it is a pipe dream at all. Consider:
--We were actually one half away against Boston College, when one of their kids who had a poor shooting percentage started draining three's, while our kids went stone cold.
--We played very well against New Mexico in a first round game at San Jose several years ago. Will Cherry was a freshman on that team, and made a real blunder late that cost us the game. That would not have ensured a Sweet 16 appearance, but it would have put us a step closer.
--We were definitely in that game against Michigan this Spring. The final score does not reflect that, because of all the free throws they made when we had to foul. Defense can be a great equalizer, and the way we played defense against them was exemplary.
--I've seen several games against Pac12 teams in recent years where we were more than competitive. Should have taken down Cal, when we missed a corner three to win the game. Got absolutely homered in two games at Washington. And outscored USC from the field when we played them in L.A. year before last in Rorie's first game as a Griz.
--Finally, as well as we've shown in a few of these games, I don't think our rosters then top to bottom are as good as this one, or the ones DeCuire is putting together for the future.
It can be done. It's not a pipe dream.
citay said:One other disagreement I have with you PR is your contention that it is a pipe dream for us to make it to the Sweet 16. I don't think it is a pipe dream at all. Consider:
--We were actually one half away against Boston College, when one of their kids who had a poor shooting percentage started draining three's, while our kids went stone cold.
--We played very well against New Mexico in a first round game at San Jose several years ago. Will Cherry was a freshman on that team, and made a real blunder late that cost us the game. That would not have ensured a Sweet 16 appearance, but it would have put us a step closer.
--We were definitely in that game against Michigan this Spring. The final score does not reflect that, because of all the free throws they made when we had to foul. Defense can be a great equalizer, and the way we played defense against them was exemplary.
--I've seen several games against Pac12 teams in recent years where we were more than competitive. Should have taken down Cal, when we missed a corner three to win the game. Got absolutely homered in two games at Washington. And outscored USC from the field when we played them in L.A. year before last in Rorie's first game as a Griz.
--Finally, as well as we've shown in a few of these games, I don't think our rosters then top to bottom are as good as this one, or the ones DeCuire is putting together for the future.
It can be done. It's not a pipe dream.
MtTarheel said:My wish is to move up conferences in basketball and stay put in football. Villanova does it. Why couldn't we?
'68griz said:MtTarheel said:My wish is to move up conferences in basketball and stay put in football. Villanova does it. Why couldn't we?
Because there's no place to move to. And, personally, I strongly dislike schools playing in multiple conferences.
'68griz said:MtTarheel said:My wish is to move up conferences in basketball and stay put in football. Villanova does it. Why couldn't we?
Because there's no place to move to. And, personally, I strongly dislike schools playing in multiple conferences.