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GRIZ at noco

Fuck this price of shit conference.

Griz we’re better than the home team,
Just not better than the stripes.
 
Good game. Really had a problem with the foul on Owens on his fb bucket. I didn't see anything intentional about that.
 
grizzlyjournal said:
Good game. Really had a problem with the foul on Owens on his fb bucket. I didn't see anything intentional about that.

Agree with that. Hume initiated the contact.

Owens had a pretty good game. Second-leading scorer with 12 points. Also 3 rebounds.

Has he not been playing because of an injury? Or has he been in the dog house?
 
EverettGriz said:
Griz2k said:
Is it time to move on from TD?

Please.



It’s time to move on only from this conference

I would tend to agree if we lacked any competition, but apparently the Griz can't even beat Northern Colorado.
 
I would love to hear from the league offices or the officials consortium precisely how they arrived at a Flagrant 1 on contact initiated by the defender who was out of position on the offensive player. That was a 5 point swing and it has been radio silence from all parties as to how the officials determined that Owens was the party at fault. Very much feels like getting in a car accident, where the other vehicle makes contact with you, only to find out you are responsible for their damage. TDC's physical response was great. Really surprised he didn't go ape shit there. All I want is a reasonable explanation. We won't hear it, but it would be swell.

The officiating was uneven again and for a team who absolutely thrives on getting to the rim like Montana does, is it merely because we just have undersized guards who based upon the rules of logic cannot have fouls called upon them when driving to the basket against bigger players? Yet if the opposite were true, as it was Saturday night, Kountz and others seemed to benefit. Is it truly terrible defensive positioning, can't say that it is, but I know that some of the issues come from how TDC's defense recovers. Part of it I get. I know this an oft discussed issue, but the literal margin of the game was determined by the FT line again. The NC announcers were oblivious and seemed to claim the handful of calls Montana got in the game down low were the officials anticipating contact.

That being said, I am one to argue that Parker needs to be the guy facilitating the offense. He's through the two conference games the best guy we have and created problems for NC all night on Saturday. He's obviously a bit of a liability on the defensive end but he gets people the ball in position to score. He was the best player on Thursday and arguably again on Saturday (though Owens had a great night too).
 
Grizfan-24 said:
I would love to hear from the league offices or the officials consortium precisely how they arrived at a Flagrant 1 on contact initiated by the defender who was out of position on the offensive player. That was a 5 point swing and it has been radio silence from all parties as to how the officials determined that Owens was the party at fault. Very much feels like getting in a car accident, where the other vehicle makes contact with you, only to find out you are responsible for their damage. TDC's physical response was great. Really surprised he didn't go ape shit there. All I want is a reasonable explanation. We won't hear it, but it would be swell.

The officiating was uneven again and for a team who absolutely thrives on getting to the rim like Montana does, is it merely because we just have undersized guards who based upon the rules of logic cannot have fouls called upon them when driving to the basket against bigger players? Yet if the opposite were true, as it was Saturday night, Kountz and others seemed to benefit. Is it truly terrible defensive positioning, can't say that it is, but I know that some of the issues come from how TDC's defense recovers. Part of it I get. I know this an oft discussed issue, but the literal margin of the game was determined by the FT line again. The NC announcers were oblivious and seemed to claim the handful of calls Montana got in the game down low were the officials anticipating contact.

That being said, I am one to argue that Parker needs to be the guy facilitating the offense. He's through the two conference games the best guy we have and created problems for NC all night on Saturday. He's obviously a bit of a liability on the defensive end but he gets people the ball in position to score. He was the best player on Thursday and arguably again on Saturday (though Owens had a great night too).


Ok, I get that you think you are on the short side of the calls every game but Thursday, the " literal margin of the game was determined by the FT line again" ..... I guess it only matters when you lose....
 
Sacstatesman: I respect your views, as I do those of all who post here, even though I strongly disagree with some. I believe, however, that the final 5 minutes of the Griz-Hornet game and the Bear-Griz game were entirely unrelated scenarios.

How I saw this game:
1. Montana lost a 3-point game to UNC that they Griz could have won... regardless of the layup/flagrant foul call at approx the 9 minute mark. Truth is: After a 70-70 tie score, Montana missed two open layups, one free throw and two open jump shots (one a trey). If either or both layups and the free throw had been made, Montana could statistically have won (although, many other "what if" scenarios could have unfolded). In my view, however, Montana lost a game it could have won by converting two layups and a free throw.

2. My puzzlement about the flagrant foul call against Kyle Owens is this: I believe D1 basketball officiating rules were ignored or broken with the call that was made. I.E. refs made a call that I've never seen in D1 basketball... ever. Owens had a breakaway fast break and -- a split second before he made the layup -- contact occured between Owens and Hume. If I understand basketball rules correctly, the refs could have ONLY called one of TWO scenarios: A -- A basket (2 pts) by Owens and no call on the "incidental" contact; B -- Charging by Owens previous to the basket (0 points, by NCAA rules, are recorded on charges) and a subsequent flagrant designation against Owens, thus awarding two shots and subsequent possession by NAU. C -- Instead, refs called some odd kind of intentional flagrant foul by Owens after he made the basket, which replays show did not happen, because contact was clearly made at the exact split-second when Owens made the basket.

If there is an Offical in the house, I would appreciate an explanation. Otherwise, it's my belief that the referees made two incorrect calls on one play, which should be impossible by NCAA D1 basketball rules. The play could ONLY have been a breakaway layup for 2 points and incidental contact on the play, OR a charging foul on Owens with a flagrant designation for an intentional high elbow to Hume's forehead. Instead: FOUR POINTS were awarded on one play: 2 for Montana and 2 (made free throws) for UNC, with the Bears getting possession of the ball after the flagrant foul.

Frankly, it's my belief that officials should be given some sort of public disciplinary notification by the Big Sky Conference, OR the Big Sky Conference should make an official explanation of the incident in defense of the officials.
 
grizzlyjournal said:
Sacstatesman: I respect your views, as I do those of all who post here, even though I strongly disagree with some. I believe, however, that the final 5 minutes of the Griz-Hornet game and the Bear-Griz game were entirely unrelated scenarios.

How I saw this game:
1. Montana lost a 3-point game to UNC that they Griz could have won... regardless of the layup/flagrant foul call at approx the 9 minute mark. Truth is: After a 70-70 tie score, Montana missed two open layups, one free throw and two open jump shots (one a trey). If either or both layups and the free throw had been made, Montana could statistically have won (although, many other "what if" scenarios could have unfolded). In my view, however, Montana lost a game it could have won by converting two layups and a free throw.

2. My puzzlement about the flagrant foul call against Kyle Owens is this: I believe D1 basketball officiating rules were ignored or broken with the call that was made. I.E. refs made a call that I've never seen in D1 basketball... ever. Owens had a breakaway fast break and -- a split second before he made the layup -- contact occured between Owens and Hume. If I understand basketball rules correctly, the refs could have ONLY called one of TWO scenarios: A -- A basket (2 pts) by Owens and no call on the "incidental" contact; B -- Charging by Owens previous to the basket (0 points, by NCAA rules, are recorded on charges) and a subsequent flagrant designation against Owens, thus awarding two shots and subsequent possession by NAU. C -- Instead, refs called some odd kind of intentional flagrant foul by Owens after he made the basket, which replays show did not happen, because contact was clearly made at the exact split-second when Owens made the basket.

If there is an Offical in the house, I would appreciate an explanation. Otherwise, it's my belief that the referees made two incorrect calls on one play, which should be impossible by NCAA D1 basketball rules. The play could ONLY have been a breakaway layup for 2 points and incidental contact on the play, OR a charging foul on Owens with a flagrant designation for an intentional high elbow to Hume's forehead. Instead: FOUR POINTS were awarded on one play: 2 for Montana and 2 (made free throws) for UNC, with the Bears getting possession of the ball after the flagrant foul.

Frankly, it's my belief that officials should be given some sort of public disciplinary notification by the Big Sky Conference, OR the Big Sky Conference should make an official explanation of the incident in defense of the officials.


GJ....you have always in my opinion been fair in your analysis.....I didn't watch your game with NoCo and was referring to a comment made by Grizfan-24, in fact I copied and posted his exact quote about the margin being determined by free throws....I will make time to watch the foul you're talking about and give you my take on it as soon as I can....In fairness, there are only a few on this forum who start complaining about the refs 2 months before the season and never, I mean NEVER quit their bitchin.....
 
Ok, I've now watched the whole game....the foul you are talking about occurred at the 8:40 mark of the second half....The first replay is from a high camera angle and you can see Owens's left arm swing toward Hume...the next replay is from under the hoop and much closer but you can't really see the contact because Hume is blocking the view....Hume obviously was hit because he had to leave the court and when he returned he played the rest of the game with butterflies on his right brow area....as far as the basket being good, I don't know the rules well enough to have an opinion....Owens definitely shoots after the contact with his elbow to Hume's brow...the rule as I understand it about the flagrant 1 is it doesn't matter whether the action was intentional or not but the elbow coming in contact with the head or face is an automatic flagrant 1....There were ticky tack fouls called both ways and a few missed calls that I saw....the one missed call that I think could have had an impact in your favor was fairly early in the first half when Hume went over the back of one of your players and tipped the ball out of bounds....the ref called Montana ball which was correct but if Hume had been called for a foul, he may have had to sit at least half of the first half which could swing it your way...in that case I like not making the foul call because Montana ended up with the ball (which they would have gotten if the foul was called).....There you have it GJ....as open minded as I can be....
 
sacstateman said:
Ok, I've now watched the whole game....the foul you are talking about occurred at the 8:40 mark of the second half....The first replay is from a high camera angle and you can see Owens's left arm swing toward Hume...the next replay is from under the hoop and much closer but you can't really see the contact because Hume is blocking the view....Hume obviously was hit because he had to leave the court and when he returned he played the rest of the game with butterflies on his right brow area....as far as the basket being good, I don't know the rules well enough to have an opinion....Owens definitely shoots after the contact with his elbow to Hume's brow...the rule as I understand it about the flagrant 1 is it doesn't matter whether the action was intentional or not but the elbow coming in contact with the head or face is an automatic flagrant 1....There were ticky tack fouls called both ways and a few missed calls that I saw....the one missed call that I think could have had an impact in your favor was fairly early in the first half when Hume went over the back of one of your players and tipped the ball out of bounds....the ref called Montana ball which was correct but if Hume had been called for a foul, he may have had to sit at least half of the first half which could swing it your way...in that case I like not making the foul call because Montana ended up with the ball (which they would have gotten if the foul was called).....There you have it GJ....as open minded as I can be....

I wasn't complaining about the fouls in general. My only question was how both Montana and UNC could receive points for the fb drive by Kyle, since I'd never before seen a call interpreted that way & would like an "official" interpretation. Otherwise, Montana lost the game down the stretch, not because of fouls, but because of 2 missed open layups, a missed free throw, and two missed jumpers, one of them a trey. :roll: That's basketball...
 
EverettGriz said:
Also is Hume a 17th year senior?

He only seems so because I think he has started every game since his true freshman year. Great player though. He came from a small eastern Colorado high school. One of the best to put on a Bears uniform in recent memory.
 
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