Big Sky off-season winners and losers (so far)

Griz & Big Sky Conference Basketball
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AZGrizFan
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GrizBall wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 12:48 pm
hunt-ducks wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 2:23 pm


Good post. From what I saw last season, we are very deep with about 8-10 kids who are average Big Sky players. From that group, I agree that Beasley and Bannon could become very good players before they graduate.
Blind resume test. Rank these players from 1-3 with 1 being the best. Then comment on how big of difference between the 3 or is it relatively even.



A 16.7p/3.3r/3.7a/2.2TO. 53%FG/45%3p/81%ft
B 13.0p/3.5r/7.5a/3.0TO. 49%FG/49%3p/79%ft
C 16.0/3.0r/3.3a/2.6TO. 47%FG/45%3p/93%ft
Depends on the # of minutes....
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GrizBall
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AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:51 pm
GrizBall wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 12:48 pm

Blind resume test. Rank these players from 1-3 with 1 being the best. Then comment on how big of difference between the 3 or is it relatively even.



A 16.7p/3.3r/3.7a/2.2TO. 53%FG/45%3p/81%ft
B 13.0p/3.5r/7.5a/3.0TO. 49%FG/49%3p/79%ft
C 16.0/3.0r/3.3a/2.6TO. 47%FG/45%3p/93%ft
Depends on the # of minutes....

They were already equalized for minutes.

I admit I am probably outsmarting myself trying to make a point. The point I am trying to make is that no stat correlates more to making All-Conference teams than points scored. The 15 players on the 3 teams all finished in the top 18 in scoring.

In most cases there is also a correlation between minutes played and points scored. And a correlation between a team’s tempo and points scored.

I have seen a lot of comments that “Montana has a lot of average players” or “when was the last time Montana didn’t have a person on an All-conference team?”

Last year Pridgett played 36mpg in Conference. Manuel 37mpg. The year before Rorie played 36mpg and Pridgett 31.0mpg. I am no way comparing these players to last year’s team, but I am fairly confident if Owens played 36mpg in conference vs. the 27mpg he played he would have been in the mix for 2nd Team and if a number of other players played 38mpg they would have been in the mix for at least 3rd team.

If we had a 2nd and 3rd team performer would people still be critical of the talent? Is Owens any more talented if he had played 8 more mpg and made 2nd team? The difference between 2nd or 3rd team and getting nothing can be simply a reflection of minutes played (thus more points) and not talent.

Go through some of our team’s individual stats. Average players just can’t attain some of those.

And while I will admit last year didn’t have any POY-type players, I also wouldn’t say it wasn’t a bunch of average dudes either.
hunt-ducks
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GrizBall wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:30 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:51 pm

Depends on the # of minutes....

They were already equalized for minutes.

I admit I am probably outsmarting myself trying to make a point. The point I am trying to make is that no stat correlates more to making All-Conference teams than points scored. The 15 players on the 3 teams all finished in the top 18 in scoring.

In most cases there is also a correlation between minutes played and points scored. And a correlation between a team’s tempo and points scored.

I have seen a lot of comments that “Montana has a lot of average players” or “when was the last time Montana didn’t have a person on an All-conference team?”

Last year Pridgett played 36mpg in Conference. Manuel 37mpg. The year before Rorie played 36mpg and Pridgett 31.0mpg. I am no way comparing these players to last year’s team, but I am fairly confident if Owens played 36mpg in conference vs. the 27mpg he played he would have been in the mix for 2nd Team and if a number of other players played 38mpg they would have been in the mix for at least 3rd team.

If we had a 2nd and 3rd team performer would people still be critical of the talent? Is Owens any more talented if he had played 8 more mpg and made 2nd team? The difference between 2nd or 3rd team and getting nothing can be simply a reflection of minutes played (thus more points) and not talent.

Go through some of our team’s individual stats. Average players just can’t attain some of those.

And while I will admit last year didn’t have any POY-type players, I also wouldn’t say it wasn’t a bunch of average dudes either.
A person can slice-n-dice stats any way they wish to prove a point. I prefer to go by what my eyes see in watching multiple games. You mentioned Pridgett. Is there any Griz fan who did not see the talent that Pridgett had as a starting sophomore, playing on a team featuring Oguine and Rorie? The same could be said about the young Cherry and Jamar talents. I certainly felt that they would be a stars before they finished their careers, and they did not disappoint. But I don't have that same feeling about any of the current Griz players. To me, we have a bunch of average Big Sky talents going 8-deep, but no emerging stars, that I can feel certain will be so. I guess we will see. But I feel that we need an infusion of a couple of stud transfers to get up back to our accustomed position near the top of the conference.
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hunt-ducks wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:40 am
GrizBall wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:30 pm

They were already equalized for minutes.

I admit I am probably outsmarting myself trying to make a point. The point I am trying to make is that no stat correlates more to making All-Conference teams than points scored. The 15 players on the 3 teams all finished in the top 18 in scoring.

In most cases there is also a correlation between minutes played and points scored. And a correlation between a team’s tempo and points scored.

I have seen a lot of comments that “Montana has a lot of average players” or “when was the last time Montana didn’t have a person on an All-conference team?”

Last year Pridgett played 36mpg in Conference. Manuel 37mpg. The year before Rorie played 36mpg and Pridgett 31.0mpg. I am no way comparing these players to last year’s team, but I am fairly confident if Owens played 36mpg in conference vs. the 27mpg he played he would have been in the mix for 2nd Team and if a number of other players played 38mpg they would have been in the mix for at least 3rd team.

If we had a 2nd and 3rd team performer would people still be critical of the talent? Is Owens any more talented if he had played 8 more mpg and made 2nd team? The difference between 2nd or 3rd team and getting nothing can be simply a reflection of minutes played (thus more points) and not talent.

Go through some of our team’s individual stats. Average players just can’t attain some of those.

And while I will admit last year didn’t have any POY-type players, I also wouldn’t say it wasn’t a bunch of average dudes either.
A person can slice-n-dice stats any way they wish to prove a point. I prefer to go by what my eyes see in watching multiple games. You mentioned Pridgett. Is there any Griz fan who did not see the talent that Pridgett had as a starting sophomore, playing on a team featuring Oguine and Rorie? The same could be said about the young Cherry and Jamar talents. I certainly felt that they would be a stars before they finished their careers, and they did not disappoint. But I don't have that same feeling about any of the current Griz players. To me, we have a bunch of average Big Sky talents going 8-deep, but no emerging stars, that I can feel certain will be so. I guess we will see. But I feel that we need an infusion of a couple of stud transfers to get up back to our accustomed position near the top of the conference.
Beasley, Bannan, and Owens will all be ALL-BSC before their careers are over.
hunt-ducks
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UMFan12 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:46 am
hunt-ducks wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:40 am

A person can slice-n-dice stats any way they wish to prove a point. I prefer to go by what my eyes see in watching multiple games. You mentioned Pridgett. Is there any Griz fan who did not see the talent that Pridgett had as a starting sophomore, playing on a team featuring Oguine and Rorie? The same could be said about the young Cherry and Jamar talents. I certainly felt that they would be a stars before they finished their careers, and they did not disappoint. But I don't have that same feeling about any of the current Griz players. To me, we have a bunch of average Big Sky talents going 8-deep, but no emerging stars, that I can feel certain will be so. I guess we will see. But I feel that we need an infusion of a couple of stud transfers to get up back to our accustomed position near the top of the conference.
Beasley, Bannan, and Owens will all be ALL-BSC before their careers are over.
As long as you are making these predictions, which ones will be first-team All-BSC like Pridgett, Jamar, and Cherry were?
UMFan12
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hunt-ducks wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:14 am
UMFan12 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:46 am
Beasley, Bannan, and Owens will all be ALL-BSC before their careers are over.
As long as you are making these predictions, which ones will be first-team All-BSC like Pridgett, Jamar, and Cherry were?
Whenever takes the bigger leap sophomore year out of Beasley/Bannan. If I had to place a bet, I’d say Beasley.
GrizBall
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UMFan12 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:07 am
hunt-ducks wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:14 am

As long as you are making these predictions, which ones will be first-team All-BSC like Pridgett, Jamar, and Cherry were?
Whenever takes the bigger leap sophomore year out of Beasley/Bannan. If I had to place a bet, I’d say Beasley.
My bet would Bannan. I believe he will be a match up problem for most of the BSC with added strength. I also believe his shooting percentages will dramatically increase because his mechanics are very good. In addition, he averaged 6 rebounds this year and has the potential to become an elite rebounder that regularly records double-doubles.

A realistic projection for him next year is 12p/8r, which I believe would get him on 3rd team.
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He also think WSU is close to being in its own tier.
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GrizBall wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:37 pm

He also think WSU is close to being in its own tier.
I think that's pretty accurate. Not sure about Eastern in tier 2 after all of their deflections. I'd maybe flip them and NAU but other then that, looks good.
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GrizBall wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:37 pm

He also think WSU is close to being in its own tier.
Also of note his reasoning for Um being T-1.
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That guy is a joke for thinking UNC has more upper end talent then us
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Griz til I die wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:48 pm That guy is a joke for thinking UNC has more upper end talent then us
I wouldn’t disagree with him here. Our roster doesn’t have any proven high level D-1 talent. UNC has pre-season POTY candidate Bodie Hume and a top 10 JUCO player in the country (Dalton Knecht) incoming.
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UMFan12 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:55 pm
Griz til I die wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:48 pm That guy is a joke for thinking UNC has more upper end talent then us
I wouldn’t disagree with him here. Our roster doesn’t have any proven high level D-1 talent. UNC has pre-season POTY candidate Bodie Hume and a top 10 JUCO player in the country (Dalton Knecht) incoming.
Hume's a good player and likely will be preseason POTY, but I'm not buying the hype on the JUCO kid yet. As we know, rankings are often overblown and he needs to prove it on the court.
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GrizBall wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:30 am
UMFan12 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:07 am

Whenever takes the bigger leap sophomore year out of Beasley/Bannan. If I had to place a bet, I’d say Beasley.
My bet would Bannan. I believe he will be a match up problem for most of the BSC with added strength. I also believe his shooting percentages will dramatically increase because his mechanics are very good. In addition, he averaged 6 rebounds this year and has the potential to become an elite rebounder that regularly records double-doubles.

A realistic projection for him next year is 12p/8r, which I believe would get him on 3rd team.
What will set him apart from the crowd is his ability to take it to the hole (strong) off the dribble.

In addition to what you said.
oldrunner
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I feel like Root has it mostly right. I do expect UM to be right back in the mix. I also feel that nearly every team has made themselves better with recruiting, Even UI seems to have some additions that will help them get better. Of course, there was only one way for them to go. They coudn't get worse, could they? ISU gets almost everyone back and should be better, just from experience. Also, this can certainly be a year where a dark horse emerges to challenge for a top four spot.

I think that my Wildcats will be good, but I would feel a lot better if they can land a high major, drop down center. I'm sure that UM would like to get that as well. :lol:
LittleBear
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Griz til I die wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:58 pm
UMFan12 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:55 pm
I wouldn’t disagree with him here. Our roster doesn’t have any proven high level D-1 talent. UNC has pre-season POTY candidate Bodie Hume and a top 10 JUCO player in the country (Dalton Knecht) incoming.
Hume's a good player and likely will be preseason POTY, but I'm not buying the hype on the JUCO kid yet. As we know, rankings are often overblown and he needs to prove it on the court.
I watched him play a few times and then against Lonnell...I think UNC may have gotten the better wing. He’s a legit 6’6 with a trigger from 3, able to put it on the floor a little bit and sneaky athletic with his length. He was able to score from all 3 levels at the juco level....BUT I agree with you so many juco players are mysteries. That production doesn’t always translate
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