Athletics and politics do not mix. Never have, never will. You cannot legislate morality despite governments attempts for hundreds even thousands of years to do so. But that did not stop our Republican legislature from proposing and passing HB 112. I had hopes our newly elected Governor would recognize the implications of such legislation but he signed it regardless. I feel the signing of this legislation will have long term negative consequences to our state and our athletic programs. The loss of revenue from home playoff games for all levels not just U of M but MSU and Frontier Conference as well.
-
Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!
Transgender Debate
- Thread starter Sport
- Start date
[Is ncaa going to ban championship events in all these states. See the last para below.]
This is from a March 29 article:
"The NCAA approved rules about a decade ago about transgender people competing on sports teams. Those rules say that a transgender women can compete on a women’s team after completing at least a year of testosterone suppression treatment.
Conservative lawmakers in more than 30 states have proposed similar measures, including in Texas, Michigan, and Florida.
State legislatures in Tennessee, Mississippi, and Arkansas have already passed these kinds of laws, according to the Save Women’s Sports organization, which is working to pass these laws across the country.
A week before lawmakers filed the bill in North Carolina, a similar bill passed in South Dakota. But Republican Gov. Kristi Noem vetoed part of the bill that banned transgender women in college sports teams.
Idaho legislators passed the first law of this kind in 2020, but that is blocked for now after the American Civil Liberties Union sued the state."
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/charlotte/politics/2021/03/29/dozens-of-states-consider-laws-banning-transgender-women-from-team-sports
"So far, sixteen anti-LGBTQ+ legislative proposals have been enacted this year, the highest-ever number of such bills signed into law in a single year, the Human Rights Campaign said on Friday. Eight of the laws specifically target trans people"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/07/montana-transgender-student-athletes-ban-bill
This is from a March 29 article:
"The NCAA approved rules about a decade ago about transgender people competing on sports teams. Those rules say that a transgender women can compete on a women’s team after completing at least a year of testosterone suppression treatment.
Conservative lawmakers in more than 30 states have proposed similar measures, including in Texas, Michigan, and Florida.
State legislatures in Tennessee, Mississippi, and Arkansas have already passed these kinds of laws, according to the Save Women’s Sports organization, which is working to pass these laws across the country.
A week before lawmakers filed the bill in North Carolina, a similar bill passed in South Dakota. But Republican Gov. Kristi Noem vetoed part of the bill that banned transgender women in college sports teams.
Idaho legislators passed the first law of this kind in 2020, but that is blocked for now after the American Civil Liberties Union sued the state."
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/charlotte/politics/2021/03/29/dozens-of-states-consider-laws-banning-transgender-women-from-team-sports
"So far, sixteen anti-LGBTQ+ legislative proposals have been enacted this year, the highest-ever number of such bills signed into law in a single year, the Human Rights Campaign said on Friday. Eight of the laws specifically target trans people"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/07/montana-transgender-student-athletes-ban-bill
Grizzlies1982
Well-known member
With these widely divergent views, and wide support, I suspect it ultimately goes to the Supreme Court.
Question is can anyone compete on any team they wish? Thus no distinction between men or women’s sports. Or, are transgender folks a special group. If they are, then when is someone transgender? Is it upon declaration of such, after a year of hormones, after surgery? Any way you cut it the NCAA won’t be the final word.
Question is can anyone compete on any team they wish? Thus no distinction between men or women’s sports. Or, are transgender folks a special group. If they are, then when is someone transgender? Is it upon declaration of such, after a year of hormones, after surgery? Any way you cut it the NCAA won’t be the final word.
I have to laugh when people automatically assume there will no longer be Griz or cats playoff games due to this. That’s because a lot of media throughout our great state decided to tell everyone that would automatically be the case.
If you look at the verbiage from the ncaa it doesn’t say there will suddenly be no playoffs. It talks about championships sites (think Frisco here) not playoffs sites where a team earned a home game. That’s a huge difference.
There are now a bunch of states who have signed similar legislation. Is the ncaa suddenly going to stop having championship games, playoffs, or whatever in all these states...highly doubtful.
There is still a loooooong ways to go here with any of this either way. A lot of decisions and discussions are still due to take place before any drastic decision will be made.
Just take a breath people.
If you look at the verbiage from the ncaa it doesn’t say there will suddenly be no playoffs. It talks about championships sites (think Frisco here) not playoffs sites where a team earned a home game. That’s a huge difference.
There are now a bunch of states who have signed similar legislation. Is the ncaa suddenly going to stop having championship games, playoffs, or whatever in all these states...highly doubtful.
There is still a loooooong ways to go here with any of this either way. A lot of decisions and discussions are still due to take place before any drastic decision will be made.
Just take a breath people.
RainierGriz
Well-known member
HookedonGriz said:
This. x1000. People are just under the assumption the the bill passed and that the NCAA will just have their way with us.
True this! Plus y'all sports fans know there have been NCAA and Olympic rules in place for transgendered athletes for years and years? Way to go, State of Montana, you guys are keeping up with Mississippi, which didn't get colored TV for 40 years because they didn't like the implication.MikeyGriz said:
I keep thinking to how Montana's sports betting laws nearly cost UM the ability to host football playoff games in 2008 and 2009. There were a few people then who just didn't get that "championship" as the NCAA sees it means the entire tournament, not just the final game.
What saved our asses was that the betting in Montana concerned fantasy sports leagues, not single game events.
Also, playoff games, regardless of where they're played, are NCAA events, not school events. Haslam, O'Day or Hogan would clear up any confusion about whose game it is if you asked.
I don't what media said. I know what Haslam told legislators. I know what the Big Sky Conference Commissioner told them and I know there was a letter from the NCAA-- all stating Montana's transgender sports law would affect the ability of universities to host playoff games.
I cannot accept the "maybe, maybe not" gamble that legislators are playing here. I expect better from the people I elect.
If I was recruiting for a non-Montana school, I would definitely point out the dicey prospects of playoff games for the Griz.
Want to talk about fairness to athletes? Any of these students denied a home playoff event because of this legislative gamble aren't being treated fairly, most likely for two seasons. Can't say the same for transgender athletes because there aren't any.
I was watching SDSU host its first semifinal game ever today. I kept thinking about whether they would have been the host had Kristi Noem signed her legislature's transgender bill into law. I'll bet SDSU is relieved it didn't have to find out.
What saved our asses was that the betting in Montana concerned fantasy sports leagues, not single game events.
Also, playoff games, regardless of where they're played, are NCAA events, not school events. Haslam, O'Day or Hogan would clear up any confusion about whose game it is if you asked.
I don't what media said. I know what Haslam told legislators. I know what the Big Sky Conference Commissioner told them and I know there was a letter from the NCAA-- all stating Montana's transgender sports law would affect the ability of universities to host playoff games.
I cannot accept the "maybe, maybe not" gamble that legislators are playing here. I expect better from the people I elect.
If I was recruiting for a non-Montana school, I would definitely point out the dicey prospects of playoff games for the Griz.
Want to talk about fairness to athletes? Any of these students denied a home playoff event because of this legislative gamble aren't being treated fairly, most likely for two seasons. Can't say the same for transgender athletes because there aren't any.
I was watching SDSU host its first semifinal game ever today. I kept thinking about whether they would have been the host had Kristi Noem signed her legislature's transgender bill into law. I'll bet SDSU is relieved it didn't have to find out.
Think about South Carolina here. They were subject to an NCAA boycott for close to 15 years over the confederate flag at the capital, all directed toward pre-determined championship sites....again not playoff games that were earned from winning games:
"For nearly 15 years we have specifically protested the flag by not allowing states like South Carolina to host pre-selected NCAA championships.”
We all know full well that teams like Wofford, Furman, the Citadel etc hosted playoff games during that time no problem. There is a huge difference between championship sites and an earned local playoff game.
Here’s the EXACT verbiage from the NCAA on this....pay close attention:
“When determining where CHAMPIOSHIPS are held, NCAA policy directs that only locations where hosts can commit to providing an environment that is safe, healthy and free of discrimination SHOULD be selected.”
Again, we are jumping to some HUGE conclusions (mainly due to media blowing this up like it’s 100% leading to no playoff games) that are still a loooooooong ways off and way further away than people realize. Hell this thing will end up in the Supreme Court before the ncaa starts screwing over a whole bunch of states who share this legislation.
"For nearly 15 years we have specifically protested the flag by not allowing states like South Carolina to host pre-selected NCAA championships.”
We all know full well that teams like Wofford, Furman, the Citadel etc hosted playoff games during that time no problem. There is a huge difference between championship sites and an earned local playoff game.
Here’s the EXACT verbiage from the NCAA on this....pay close attention:
“When determining where CHAMPIOSHIPS are held, NCAA policy directs that only locations where hosts can commit to providing an environment that is safe, healthy and free of discrimination SHOULD be selected.”
Again, we are jumping to some HUGE conclusions (mainly due to media blowing this up like it’s 100% leading to no playoff games) that are still a loooooooong ways off and way further away than people realize. Hell this thing will end up in the Supreme Court before the ncaa starts screwing over a whole bunch of states who share this legislation.
HookedonGriz said:
BINGO
This has been debated, testified on, lied about, and even truthfully stated this legislative session. Transgender 2.0 is now alive and well on eGriz. What was missing in Helena was the international perspective, but SaskGriz has that covered for us. Our grads are everywhere, that matter.
WaGriz4life
Well-known member
This isn’t as complicated as you say. You have a biological sex. This is saying of your are biologically a male (science) you can’t compete in women’s sports. Because you are not a woman (biologically).Grizzlies1982 said:
WaGriz4life
Well-known member
WaGriz4life said:
Don't quite get that one but yeah good shot, I guess. I was just pointing out that the NCAA and The Olympic committee have been dealing with this "new issue" for years and have rules in place. Castor Semenya and Margret Wambui were exceptions. There will always be genetic combinations that were not considered that need to be dealt with on an athlete by athlete basis but they are they exceptions.tourist said:
smarsh
Well-known member
first, let me say that i am in the camp that believes there are girls sports and there are boys sports for a reason. GENERALLY speaking, males are physically different than females when it comes to strength and speed. there is no denying that. simply put, it is not fair to allow males to compete against females for that reason. however, there is no reason that this should be legislated at the state or federal government level. this whackjob group we have in helena this year spent this session creating solutions to problems we don't have and trying to make a point to the rest of the country that the goddam libs ain't gonna tell us what to do here. the transgender rules/decisions need to come from the presiding athletic organizations (NCAA, MHA, Big Sky, etc), not state legislators that think we need guns on the state flag.
