P5 Cancellation Inevitable?

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'68griz
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PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:01 pm
argh! wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:21 am


you are pointing out how voting would become more difficult - isn't that knee capping? not everybody has the luxury of time like you and i do.

the post office provides a vital service. your law firm would have been nothing without it. but trump has been kneecapping it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... out-trump/
The announced changes were to help get the PO's operation to meet the lower demand that has declined substantially in the last decade, and for more efficiency. Now, the head of the PO has said that no changes will be made until after the elections.

Here are some PO stats:

"Although the Postal Service has slowly whittled down its offices and workforce during the past two decades, revenue-generating services have declined much more rapidly. Since 2000, the overall volume of mail handled annually has fallen by 31.4%, from 207.9 billion pieces to 142.6 billion in 2019. First-class mail, a profitable service, has declined by 33.6% in the past decade. Package delivery has increased substantially but has not filled the gap.

The USPS has not turned a net profit since 2006. Between 2007 and March 31 of this year, the service has incurred cumulative losses of $83.1 billion, only some of which is attributable to expenses within the control of management. It owes more than $11 billion to the U.S. Treasury and $59 billion in mandatory but unpaid contributions to employee pension and retiree health funds, as Pew Research notes.

[For example, the PO doesn't need as many letter sorter machines as it used to.]

Only a handful of states vote exclusively by mail, and few are proposing to join them. But some 40% or 50% of Americans have said in polls that they’d prefer to vote by mail this year; only about 24% voted by mail or absentee in 2016. More ballots will reach voters too late to be returned on time. Four years ago, about 1% of mail-in ballots were rejected for this and other reasons. This year, the share could be high enough to make a difference in contested states.

[The point is that the states need to change their dates for mail-in voting, if they want to ensure that there is plenty of time to vote by mail. What's so hard about doing that?]

Reforming the USPS raises difficult social questions, too. More than 23% of its employees are black, compared with 13% for the overall U.S. workforce. While veterans make up 6% of the workforce, the Postal Service employs more than 100,000 of them, about 16% of its employees.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/putting-as ... eatst_pos3

The WaPost article you linked was April 11. Long ago. The Dems tried to stick the PO into the Virus Relief bill. Mnuchin rejected it. What does the PO have to do with virus relief?]
Why should the USPS make a profit? It is a federal SERVICE agency!!! And it actually
might be making a profit if the GOP Congress hadn't forced it to fund retirement benefits for people who aren't even yet employed. I am a huge supporter of the postal service and always will be. How many of you have ever lived on rural delivery routes? When I was a kid, the mail man even brought our groceries when we were essentially snowed in, and delivered the daily newspaper from 100 miles away. I will defend the USPS until I die.
argh!
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PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:35 pm
argh! wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:40 pm


i intentionally linked an older article, to emphasize how long the problem has been going on, and how long it has been ignored.
The problem has been going on for at least a decade. If letter volume is down 33%, what's wrong with returning a few sorting machines? The PO warned most states that their deadlines may not be long enough. Why don't the states fix the deadlines? Why is that so hard? And, why can't people get a ballot in the mail or otherwise, and just fill it out and mail it back right away.
sad to see you shilling for trump, but you are getting old. it's the states' fault! blah blah blah it is a federal election, we can afford to do it right, which means mailing votes in when one has had the time to go over all the candidate's position, and all the relevant information about them is out there. not everybody just votes straight down a party line like you. addendum: 40% of seattle's sorting machines are dismantled. https://www.kuow.org/stories/nearly-hal ... v8yQbzHKSQ
Last edited by argh! on Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kemajic
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argh! wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:59 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:35 pm


The problem has been going on for at least a decade. If letter volume is down 33%, what's wrong with returning a few sorting machines? The PO warned most states that their deadlines may not be long enough. Why don't the states fix the deadlines? Why is that so hard? And, why can't people get a ballot in the mail or otherwise, and just fill it out and mail it back right away.
sad to see you shilling for trump, but you are getting old.
How bad is "shilling for Trump" relative to your TDS? PR has a more effective argument; he can find the shift to capitalize.
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard, grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em." - Webb Wilder
argh!
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kemajic wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:19 am
argh! wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:59 am


sad to see you shilling for trump, but you are getting old.
How bad is "shilling for Trump" relative to your TDS? PR has a more effective argument; he can find the shift to capitalize.
he has an argument that is pleasing to your ears. that doesn't make it 'effective'. and the whole "tds" insult attempt is pretty pathetic, even for you. but then again, you may not be able to pass that 'difficult' dementia test like trump did...
PlayerRep
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argh! wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:59 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:35 pm


The problem has been going on for at least a decade. If letter volume is down 33%, what's wrong with returning a few sorting machines? The PO warned most states that their deadlines may not be long enough. Why don't the states fix the deadlines? Why is that so hard? And, why can't people get a ballot in the mail or otherwise, and just fill it out and mail it back right away.
sad to see you shilling for trump, but you are getting old. it's the states' fault! blah blah blah it is a federal election, we can afford to do it right, which means mailing votes in when one has had the time to go over all the candidate's position, and all the relevant information about them is out there. not everybody just votes straight down a party line like you. addendum: 40% of seattle's sorting machines are dismantled. https://www.kuow.org/stories/nearly-hal ... v8yQbzHKSQ
No shilling from Trump from me. Is voting for Gianforte, Daines and Biden right down a party line, in your view?

The PO has been in the red in recent except except for a few Bush years. Obama downsized/right-sized the PO twice.

"First-class mail volume peaked in 2001, declining by 43% as of 2017.

In response, the USPS has increased productivity each year from 2000 to 2007, through increased automation, route re-optimization, and facility consolidation.Despite these efforts, the organization saw an $8.5 billion budget shortfall in 2010, and was losing money at a rate of about $3 billion per quarter in 2011.

On December 5, 2011, the USPS announced it would close more than half of its mail processing centers, eliminate 28,000 jobs and reduce overnight delivery of First-Class Mail. This will close down 252 of its 461 processing centers.[38] (At peak mail volume in 2006, the USPS operated 673 facilities.[39]) As of May 2012, the plan was to start the first round of consolidation in summer 2012, pause from September to December, and begin a second round in February 2014; 80% of first-class mail would still be delivered overnight through the end of 2013.

In July 2011, the USPS announced a plan to close about 3,700 small post offices. Various representatives in Congress protested, and the Senate passed a bill that would have kept open all post offices farther than 10 miles (16 km) from the next office.[43] In May 2012, the service announced it had modified its plan. Instead, rural post offices would remain open with reduced retail hours (some as little as two hours per day) unless there was a community preference for a different option."


Wiki.

The article you linked show the machine taken out of each city. Seattle is not listed as losing a sorter. Redmond lost 5 of 12.

Do you have any data on how much over-capacity each location had? Did you notice that the PO head said that the PO would still be able to handle expected volume this fall, after the cuts?

How does it help anyone to have unnecessary and unused sorters? The post office volume is way way down. It's okay for Obama to downsize the PO, but not for a Repub administration? Is anyone concerned that wasting money is not a good idea?
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AZGrizFan
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argh! wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:59 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:35 pm


The problem has been going on for at least a decade. If letter volume is down 33%, what's wrong with returning a few sorting machines? The PO warned most states that their deadlines may not be long enough. Why don't the states fix the deadlines? Why is that so hard? And, why can't people get a ballot in the mail or otherwise, and just fill it out and mail it back right away.
sad to see you shilling for trump, but you are getting old. it's the states' fault! blah blah blah it is a federal election, we can afford to do it right, which means mailing votes in when one has had the time to go over all the candidate's position, and all the relevant information about them is out there. not everybody just votes straight down a party line like you. addendum: 40% of seattle's sorting machines are dismantled. https://www.kuow.org/stories/nearly-hal ... v8yQbzHKSQ
35,000 blue boxes removed in the past 10 years, but this is just another Trump conspiracy, right? :lol: :lol:

You lefties literally believe anything you hear if it paints “orange man bad”....
Guns kill people like spoons make you fat.
PlayerRep
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AZGrizFan wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:00 am
argh! wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:59 am


sad to see you shilling for trump, but you are getting old. it's the states' fault! blah blah blah it is a federal election, we can afford to do it right, which means mailing votes in when one has had the time to go over all the candidate's position, and all the relevant information about them is out there. not everybody just votes straight down a party line like you. addendum: 40% of seattle's sorting machines are dismantled. https://www.kuow.org/stories/nearly-hal ... v8yQbzHKSQ
35,000 blue boxes removed in the past 10 years, but this is just another Trump conspiracy, right? :lol: :lol:

You lefties literally believe anything you hear if it paints “orange man bad”....
Mail has been declining about 3% per year for a long time. It's gone down more during the Covid. In the most recent quarter, first-class mail volume was down 9.4%. Marketing mail was down 26.4%. Shipping and packages were up substantially. International, periodicals and other down. Overall volume down over 21%.

Extra trucks will be put on standby on Oct. 1, in case more trucks are needed.

472 million pieces of mail per day, of which 182 million are first-class mail, according to this website: https://facts.usps.com/one-day/

How many absentee ballots are there? I suppose one would need to multiple that by two, for each way. Most of the ballots would be sent locally, but not all.

Has anyone seen an article explaining how absentee ballots in October, late October and Nov 1 would create some huge problems for the PO?

Polls show 43% of people plan to vote by mail. 138 million voted in the 2016 election?

Using 50% of say 150 million people, that's 75 million people. Times 2 for ballots going both ways is 150 million.

Can a system handing 472 million pieces of mail a day not handle an additional 150 million pieces of mail spread over several weeks, especially with the huge decrease in mail volume during the pandemic? Using a concentrated 15-day period that's 10 million per day. That's a 2.1% increase per day.

If you've seen some good articles, without analysis and not conclusions or hysteria, please post them.
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kemajic
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AZGrizFan wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:00 am
argh! wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:59 am


sad to see you shilling for trump, but you are getting old. it's the states' fault! blah blah blah it is a federal election, we can afford to do it right, which means mailing votes in when one has had the time to go over all the candidate's position, and all the relevant information about them is out there. not everybody just votes straight down a party line like you. addendum: 40% of seattle's sorting machines are dismantled. https://www.kuow.org/stories/nearly-hal ... v8yQbzHKSQ
35,000 blue boxes removed in the past 10 years, but this is just another Trump conspiracy, right? :lol: :lol:

You lefties literally believe anything you hear if it paints “orange man bad”....
Then bristle at the diagnosis of TDS....
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard, grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em." - Webb Wilder
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EverettGriz
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Congress hadn't forced it to fund retirement benefits for people who aren't even yet employed.
Not about to delve into the political pissing match with the complete nutjobs.

But 68 makes a terrific point here. The completely strange-assed accounting practice of prefunding retiree health benefits makes the USPS "loss" look much, much, much worse than it actually is. In fact, in some years the USPS would have had a "profit" without it (again, as 68 also alludes to, discussing profits and losses for a federal agency seems rather silly to me, but whatever).
Booze is the duct tape of life.
tourist
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kemajic wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:33 pm

Then bristle at the diagnosis of TDS....
Trump Derangement Syndrome
Urban Dictionary offers up this handy definition: "Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is a mental condition in which a person has been driven effectively insane due to their dislike of Donald Trump, to the point at which they will abandon all logic and reason."

I had to look it up. Fits the profiles of LOTS of egriz posters. :?
Spanky2
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tourist wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:52 pm
kemajic wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:33 pm

Then bristle at the diagnosis of TDS....
Trump Derangement Syndrome
Urban Dictionary offers up this handy definition: "Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) is a mental condition in which a person has been driven effectively insane due to their dislike of Donald Trump, to the point at which they will abandon all logic and reason."

I had to look it up. Fits the profiles of LOTS of egriz posters. :?
That explains what’s wrong with you!🧐
PlayerRep
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EverettGriz wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:20 pm
Congress hadn't forced it to fund retirement benefits for people who aren't even yet employed.
Not about to delve into the political pissing match with the complete nutjobs.

But 68 makes a terrific point here. The completely strange-assed accounting practice of prefunding retiree health benefits makes the USPS "loss" look much, much, much worse than it actually is. In fact, in some years the USPS would have had a "profit" without it (again, as 68 also alludes to, discussing profits and losses for a federal agency seems rather silly to me, but whatever).
The USPS just lost $2.2 Billion on the quarter ended on June 30. And $1.5 Billion of so-called Controllable Loss, which is without factoring in of retirement benefits as well as other non-controllable positive things.

"The net loss for the quarter was $2.2 billion compared to a net loss of $2.3 billion for the same quarter last year. The controllable loss for the quarter was $1.5 billion, compared to a controllable loss of $1.1 billion reported for the same quarter last year.

The ability to borrow an additional $10 billion under the CARES Act addresses the Postal Service's near-term liquidity crisis but does not address the Postal Service's broken business model."

https://about.usps.com/newsroom/nationa ... obligation.
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EverettGriz
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Obviously -- with Covid -- this is not one of the "some years". I don't think that should come as a surprise to anyone. That said, the accounting practice -- which is not implemented by any other government agency -- makes zero sense, neglecting for a moment the odd philosophy that a government "service" is supposed to be profitable.
Booze is the duct tape of life.
PlayerRep
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EverettGriz wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:34 pm
Obviously -- with Covid -- this is not one of the "some years". I don't think that should come as a surprise to anyone. That said, the accounting practice -- which is not implemented by any other government agency -- makes zero sense, neglecting for a moment the odd philosophy that a government "service" is supposed to be profitable.
The increase in revenue from shipping and packages essentially offset the revenue loss from less letters and regular mail.

"The Postal Service prepares its financial reports in accordance with GAAP promulgated by the FASB. GAAP requires the Postal Service to account for retirement, health, and life insurance benefit programs under multi-employer accounting rules, and expense is recognized for each period's legally required contribution.Nov 19, 2019."

Give us a link for an article on the accounting practice not implemented by other government agencies.
PlayerRep
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"A Facebook post said: "The Postal Service is not losing money because of Amazon. It’s losing money because in 2006, the Republican-led Congress passed a law forcing it to prepay its pensions for 75 years, which no other corporation does … Without this law, the Postal Service would be turning a profit."

The Postal Service isn’t losing money from its deal with Amazon. But the 2006 law requiring the pre-funding of health benefits for future retirees — not pensions — has put a financial strain on the Postal Service and hurt its ability to turn a profit in some recent years.

However, the Postal Service has more financial problems than just the requirements of the law.

We rate this statement Half True."

""We now estimate that the COVID-19 pandemic will increase the Postal Service’s net operating loss by more than $22 billion dollars over the next 18 months, and by over $54 billion dollars over the longer term," Brennan said.

The 2006 law also established a fund for Postal Service retiree health benefits. It required prepayment of those benefits according to a 50-year schedule, starting with 10 years of statutorily prescribed payments of roughly $5 billion from 2007 to 2017.

Previously, the service funded the benefits on a pay-as-you-go basis.

The act was passed by a Republican-led Congress. But it dealt with retiree health benefits, not pensions, said David Partenheimer, a spokesman for the Postal Service.

"This advance funding requirement places a burden of about $6.6 billion on the postal service that would not exist if they followed a pay-as-you-go approach," O’Rourke said. "This burden has quite nearly bankrupted the USPS over a 15-year period."

But Jim Campbell, a private attorney and an expert on postal service laws, said the 2006 law also freed the Postal Service of a prior obligation to cover pension costs for military service its employees completed before joining the Postal Service.

A 2009 report from the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service said that shift relieved the Postal Service of a $27 billion cost. Campbell said that when the 2006 law was enacted, it was expected that relief from prior costs would "more or less completely offset the new obligation."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... us-postal/
Grizzoola
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This can be argued until blue in the face. It's a simple matter of cause and effect and timing. Why now? Trump appoints Louis DeJoy, long-time big Trump donor, another unqualified crony, as Postmaster General only on May, 6, 2020, an auspicious date, considering the ramp-up to the election.

Sure, OVER A PERIOD OF TIME the PO has altered its boxes, machines, etc., not in some "emergency" "efficiency" "improvement," like now! It's as plain as can be: Another Trump manipulation of a long-going American institution to give him an undeserved advantage in the election! You Trumpsters trying to justify this farce are the real TDSers. You're so devoted to Trump that along w/ McConnell, etc., you whitewash all the quasi-illegal crap Trump has been pulling since in office. You're no more an American than Trump is: You're not for America, you're for Trump, whatever he does, to Hell w/ American history, traditions, mores, values, etc.!
PlayerRep
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Grizzoola wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:55 pm
This can be argued until blue in the face. It's a simple matter of cause and effect and timing. Why now? Trump appoints Louis DeJoy, long-time big Trump donor, another unqualified crony, as Postmaster General only on May, 6, 2020, an auspicious date, considering the ramp-up to the election.

Sure, OVER A PERIOD OF TIME the PO has altered its boxes, machines, etc., not in some "emergency" "efficiency" "improvement," like now! It's as plain as can be: Another Trump manipulation of a long-going American institution to give him an undeserved advantage in the election! You Trumpsters trying to justify this farce are the real TDSers. You're so devoted to Trump that along w/ McConnell, etc., you whitewash all the quasi-illegal crap Trump has been pulling since in office. You're no more an American than Trump is: You're not for America, you're for Trump, whatever he does, to Hell w/ American history, traditions, mores, values, etc.!
Your last para is wrong and devoid of facts. Letter volume is down 15 or 20% in last quarter and you think the PO can"t handle 150 million mailed ballots over several weeks? They handle 472 million pieces a day.

I voted for Hillary and plan to vote for Biden. I can't stand Trump.
Spanky2
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PlayerRep wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:27 pm
Grizzoola wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:55 pm
This can be argued until blue in the face. It's a simple matter of cause and effect and timing. Why now? Trump appoints Louis DeJoy, long-time big Trump donor, another unqualified crony, as Postmaster General only on May, 6, 2020, an auspicious date, considering the ramp-up to the election.

Sure, OVER A PERIOD OF TIME the PO has altered its boxes, machines, etc., not in some "emergency" "efficiency" "improvement," like now! It's as plain as can be: Another Trump manipulation of a long-going American institution to give him an undeserved advantage in the election! You Trumpsters trying to justify this farce are the real TDSers. You're so devoted to Trump that along w/ McConnell, etc., you whitewash all the quasi-illegal crap Trump has been pulling since in office. You're no more an American than Trump is: You're not for America, you're for Trump, whatever he does, to Hell w/ American history, traditions, mores, values, etc.!
Your last para is wrong and devoid of facts. Letter volume is down 15 or 20% in last quarter and you think the PO can"t handle 150 million mailed ballots over several weeks? They handle 472 million pieces a day.

I voted for Hillary and plan to vote for Biden. I can't stand Trump.
You can’t be serious?
MikeyGriz
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Another thread derailed by political BS. Explain to me again what Trump and the USPS have to do with the P5 season cancellation being inevitable? Or FCS football? Or Griz football?
I don't watch CNN for the same reason I don't drink out of the toilet bowl!
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kemajic
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PlayerRep wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:27 pm
Grizzoola wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:55 pm
This can be argued until blue in the face. It's a simple matter of cause and effect and timing. Why now? Trump appoints Louis DeJoy, long-time big Trump donor, another unqualified crony, as Postmaster General only on May, 6, 2020, an auspicious date, considering the ramp-up to the election.

Sure, OVER A PERIOD OF TIME the PO has altered its boxes, machines, etc., not in some "emergency" "efficiency" "improvement," like now! It's as plain as can be: Another Trump manipulation of a long-going American institution to give him an undeserved advantage in the election! You Trumpsters trying to justify this farce are the real TDSers. You're so devoted to Trump that along w/ McConnell, etc., you whitewash all the quasi-illegal crap Trump has been pulling since in office. You're no more an American than Trump is: You're not for America, you're for Trump, whatever he does, to Hell w/ American history, traditions, mores, values, etc.!
Your last para is wrong and devoid of facts. Letter volume is down 15 or 20% in last quarter and you think the PO can"t handle 150 million mailed ballots over several weeks? They handle 472 million pieces a day.

I voted for Hillary and plan to vote for Biden. I can't stand Trump.
It should be more about policy and track record than a popularity contest. As an Alabama fan once told me after I had said that Saban was a dickhead, "Yeah, but he's our dickhead."
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard, grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em." - Webb Wilder
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