Revamped UM Student Recruitment

Get the low down on Griz/FCS Football
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wbtfg
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PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:21 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:11 am
https://missoulian.com/news/local/unive ... -top-story

Here’s the release from the Missoulian. A few things jump out at me here.

-it looks to me like um is combining the 4 year and 2 year college numbers in this report. It would be interesting to see specific 4 year campus numbers.

-the article says UM’s 472 student enrollment decline was “almost exclusively” freshman. Last year their freshman class was about 1100. Did the freshman class numbers drop 30-40%? I thought freshman apps were up 33% at one point this year.

-It will be interesting to see how much MSU subsidizes UM this year. If I remember correctly, last year it was in they $18 million range.
MSU doesn't "subsidize" UM. It's state money, not MSU's money. Yes, the board of regents changed, a number of years ago, the manner of allocating funds away from primarily a per capita basis. Yes, the MSU president whines a lot more than the UM president.

On the other hand, the state does subsidize MSU football/athletics more than UM, and has for years. Yes, MSU pretty much makes that decision as to how the state money is spent, but historically the state amount of the MSU athletic budget is millions more than the UM budget.

Good question on the drop in frosh students at UM.

Assuming that the decline for each school involved people paying the same tuition, which, of course, is not necessarily the case, then it looks like MSU lost more tuition in the aggregate than UM did. Do you read the numbers that way?
That’s a lot to to respond to. MSU absolutely subsidizes. UM. We’ve gone rounds on this, and at this point I assume we just agree to disagree. Same with athletic budget. The state doesn’t set MSU or UM’s athletic budget. They allocate a lump sum to each institution to determine where to spend that money. Once again, we’ll agree to disagree.

As for tuition dollars, hard to say. Much will depend on the 2yr/4yr, Pt/ft, resident/non resident breakdown.

But that said, you’re absolutely right 3% of 17,000 is significantly more than 4% of Of 10,000.
Last edited by wbtfg on Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”
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CDAGRIZ
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wbtfg wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:20 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:21 pm


MSU doesn't "subsidize" UM. It's state money, not MSU's money. Yes, the board of regents changed, a number of years ago, the manner of allocating funds away from primarily a per capita basis. Yes, the MSU president whines a lot more than the UM president.

On the other hand, the state does subsidize MSU football/athletics more than UM, and has for years. Yes, MSU pretty much makes that decision as to how the state money is spent, but historically the state amount of the MSU athletic budget is millions more than the UM budget.

Good question on the drop in frosh students at UM.

Assuming that the decline for each school involved people paying the same tuition, which, of course, is not necessarily the case, then it looks like MSU lost more tuition in the aggregate than UM did. Do you read the numbers that way?
That’s a lot to to respond to. MSU absolutely subsidizes. UM. We’ve gone rounds on this, and at this point I assume we just agree to disagree. Same with athletic budget. The state doesn’t set MSU or UM’s athletic budget. They allocate a lump sum and it’s to each institution to determine where to spend that money. Once again, we’ll agree to disagree.

As for tuition dollars, hard to say. Much will depend on the 2yr/4yr, Pt/ft, resident/non resident breakdown.

But that said, you’re absolutely right 3% of 17,000 is significantly more than 4% of Of 10,000.
I agree that the state writes the check and MSU requires much more state money for athletics to operate than UM (assuming each school allocates funds as needed, of course).
PlayerRep
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wbtfg wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:20 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:21 pm


MSU doesn't "subsidize" UM. It's state money, not MSU's money. Yes, the board of regents changed, a number of years ago, the manner of allocating funds away from primarily a per capita basis. Yes, the MSU president whines a lot more than the UM president.

On the other hand, the state does subsidize MSU football/athletics more than UM, and has for years. Yes, MSU pretty much makes that decision as to how the state money is spent, but historically the state amount of the MSU athletic budget is millions more than the UM budget.

Good question on the drop in frosh students at UM.

Assuming that the decline for each school involved people paying the same tuition, which, of course, is not necessarily the case, then it looks like MSU lost more tuition in the aggregate than UM did. Do you read the numbers that way?
That’s a lot to to respond to. MSU absolutely subsidizes. UM. We’ve gone rounds on this, and at this point I assume we just agree to disagree. Same with athletic budget. The state doesn’t set MSU or UM’s athletic budget. They allocate a lump sum to each institution to determine where to spend that money. Once again, we’ll agree to disagree.

As for tuition dollars, hard to say. Much will depend on the 2yr/4yr, Pt/ft, resident/non resident breakdown.

But that said, you’re absolutely right 3% of 17,000 is significantly more than 4% of Of 10,000.
It's not agree to disagree; you are just plain wrong on the first two points. My info comes from the Board of Regents.
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MSU may require more money than UM because of its engineering and architecture programs, which use advanced equipment.
CatGrad-UMGradStu
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Why in the hell do you have to disrupt an argument with facts and data? Damn, man!
PlayerRep
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In F21 Budgeted:

UM has 4669 in-state undergrads, and 1140 in-state grad students. 5809 total.

UM has 1148 out of state undergrads and 566 out of state grad students, 1714.

MSU has 7258 in-state undergrads, and 803 in-state grad students. 8,061 total.

MSU has 4128 out of state undergrads, and 524 out of state grad students. 4652 total.

With MSU having 4652 out of state students, and UM having only 1714, why should the State subsidize MSU's out of state students so much? I assume the States does. If I'm wrong, pls point out how I'm wrong.
KoolMoeDee
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the categories of "state $$ per resident" and "state support share" will answer your question.
PlayerRep
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KoolMoeDee wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:44 am
the categories of "state $$ per resident" and "state support share" will answer your question.
Lay it out for us.

Also, I am not talking about just one year. I am talking about a longer period. State money built most of the buildings, etc. for MSU. This was largely done before MSU had so many out of state students and during the growth in out of state students. The current out of staters are now getting the benefit of what State money built.
KoolMoeDee
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I'm kinda busy today, so go ahead and research the "state" money given to each university over the last 100+ years and let us know which school has been given more from the "state."
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CDAGRIZ
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KoolMoeDee wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:21 am
I'm kinda busy today, so go ahead and research the "state" money given to each university over the last 100+ years and let us know which school has been given more from the "state."
In 1924, UM received $126.25 from the State of Montana. In the same year, MSU merely received a felling axe and a box of Dixon Ticonderoga pencils. So that proves the point.
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fanofzoo
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Who paid for the roof repair ?
SACCAT66
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fanofzoo wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:36 pm
Who paid for the roof repair ?
What roof was repaired?
PlayerRep
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KoolMoeDee wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:21 am
I'm kinda busy today, so go ahead and research the "state" money given to each university over the last 100+ years and let us know which school has been given more from the "state."
You either can’t support your point or are lazy, or both.
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wbtfg
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@playerrep. Have you been able to find the new model used to determine campus funding? I’ve looked, but sure can’t find anything.

I’m trying to figure out how UM receives more state funds per resident student than both MSU and UM-Western.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”
hm.grwn.grizfan
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Didn’t know where else to share this, so decided to put it here. Something positive for all those yearning for some positive news about UM

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases ... 091820.php
“We had a winning record last year and no one was happy about it. If they have a winning record down the road they throw a parade.” - Bobby Hauck -
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wbtfg
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hm.grwn.grizfan wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:44 pm
Didn’t know where else to share this, so decided to put it here. Something positive for all those yearning for some positive news about UM

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases ... 091820.php
This is outstanding...Thanks for posting!
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”
PlayerRep
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wbtfg wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:58 am
@playerrep. Have you been able to find the new model used to determine campus funding? I’ve looked, but sure can’t find anything.

I’m trying to figure out how UM receives more state funds per resident student than both MSU and UM-Western.
Funds are not allocated on a per resident or per capital basis. That hasn't been the case for a number of years. While I don't know, I assume there isn't a formula.

Besides reading various articles and reports, I have talked to several members of the board of regents.

Assuming you know that funds aren't allocated own a per capita basis, why would you be surprised that that funds provided are not equal on a per capita basis?

It's my understanding that using per capital allocation as a primary factor was actually something that wasn't done for that many years.
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wbtfg
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PlayerRep wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:17 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:58 am
@playerrep. Have you been able to find the new model used to determine campus funding? I’ve looked, but sure can’t find anything.

I’m trying to figure out how UM receives more state funds per resident student than both MSU and UM-Western.
Funds are not allocated on a per resident or per capital basis. That hasn't been the case for a number of years. While I don't know, I assume there isn't a formula.

Besides reading various articles and reports, I have talked to several members of the board of regents.

Assuming you know that funds aren't allocated own a per capita basis, why would you be surprised that that funds provided are not equal on a per capita basis?

It's my understanding that using per capital allocation as a primary factor was actually something that wasn't done for that many years.
Yeah. I’m aware. In fact I think I might be the one who educated you on this.

We already had this discussion on page 1-2 on this thread (https://egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.p ... lit=Capita) You were going to call your regent friend and report back to me. I’m curious how that conversation went.
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”
User avatar
wbtfg
Posts: 6086
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:26 am

PlayerRep wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:17 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:58 am
@playerrep. Have you been able to find the new model used to determine campus funding? I’ve looked, but sure can’t find anything.

I’m trying to figure out how UM receives more state funds per resident student than both MSU and UM-Western.
Funds are not allocated on a per resident or per capital basis. That hasn't been the case for a number of years. While I don't know, I assume there isn't a formula.

Besides reading various articles and reports, I have talked to several members of the board of regents.

Assuming you know that funds aren't allocated own a per capita basis, why would you be surprised that that funds provided are not equal on a per capita basis?

It's my understanding that using per capital allocation as a primary factor was actually something that wasn't done for that many years.
I thin you pretty much hit the nail on the heat with your comment back in January.

“Much of what you said is basically correct, and most of what I said is old news. Things did change several years ago. The BOR now pretty much makes the decisions, with input. Some of the old rules are still applicable, but it's not primarily a per capita thing anymore. The funds now go to where the regents believe they are most needed. MSU's budget has been favorably impacted by the amount of new out of state student tuition, just like UM's athletic budget is favorably impacted by more football revenue. Buildings must continue to have at least some maintenance even if not fully occupied. From some more reading I did, it looks like the higher ed system is working to have funding less unequal, like bringing the outliers, high and low, closer together.0
“He has the physical ability, plus that intangible you can’t coach — leadership skill,” Reid said. “You can’t always find it. But you feel lucky when you find someone who has it. He has it all. He’s Dave Dickenson — one of greatest quarterbacks we’ve had here — in a bigger, stronger, more athletic body. That’s Travis Lulay.”
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