UM Spring Enrollment Numbers

Get the low down on Griz Football and the FCS
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PlayerRep
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argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm
retiredpopo wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:04 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:50 am


Bodnar didn't start until January 2018. He was offered the job and accepted it earlier.
Yes he accepted in early Oct. of 2017.
Either way, we all agree, he's only been at it for a year.
two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
Give Bodnar some time. It take awhile to identify and get rid of professors that think like you.
PlayerRep
Posts: 26295
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argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm
retiredpopo wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:04 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:50 am


Bodnar didn't start until January 2018. He was offered the job and accepted it earlier.
Yes he accepted in early Oct. of 2017.
Either way, we all agree, he's only been at it for a year.
two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
Can you point out for us, what UM has done since Bodnar arrived, in recruiting, or not recruiting, in-state students? I don't see any Bodnar stats in the article, only a long term number.

This is what has been positive since Bodnar arrived. Much better retention from fall to spring. 2.3% and 3.0%, compared to 8.2, 6.9 and 9.1.

"“Last year, we had 3.0% fewer students in spring than fall; this year it’s 2.3%,” Cole wrote in the press release. “That may seem like a small change, but when you consider we were down 8.2% in 2018, 6.9% in 2017 and 9.1% in 2016, we are clearly moving in a very positive direction. This data affirms progress in our strategy of making incremental improvements in rebuilding enrollment.”
argh!
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PlayerRep wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:17 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm
retiredpopo wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:04 am


Yes he accepted in early Oct. of 2017.
Either way, we all agree, he's only been at it for a year.
two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
Can you point out for us, what UM has done since Bodnar arrived, in recruiting, or not recruiting, in-state students? I don't see any Bodnar stats in the article, only a long term number.

This is what has been positive since Bodnar arrived. Much better retention from fall to spring. 2.3% and 3.0%, compared to 8.2, 6.9 and 9.1.

"“Last year, we had 3.0% fewer students in spring than fall; this year it’s 2.3%,” Cole wrote in the press release. “That may seem like a small change, but when you consider we were down 8.2% in 2018, 6.9% in 2017 and 9.1% in 2016, we are clearly moving in a very positive direction. This data affirms progress in our strategy of making incremental improvements in rebuilding enrollment.”
is putting resources into fall to spring retention really the best way to rebuild attendance at a university that has lost as many students overall as um? more so than advertising the university to a wide swath of prospective students in the state of montana? and do you know exactly what changes were made that resulted in this amazing accomplishment? the old timey formula is more counselors, and sometimes, a lowering of academic standards to allow new students to get used to university-level education requirements, and to take remedial courses. is that how you managed to stay enrolled at dartmouth?
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argh! wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:30 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:17 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm

Either way, we all agree, he's only been at it for a year.
two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
Can you point out for us, what UM has done since Bodnar arrived, in recruiting, or not recruiting, in-state students? I don't see any Bodnar stats in the article, only a long term number.

This is what has been positive since Bodnar arrived. Much better retention from fall to spring. 2.3% and 3.0%, compared to 8.2, 6.9 and 9.1.

"“Last year, we had 3.0% fewer students in spring than fall; this year it’s 2.3%,” Cole wrote in the press release. “That may seem like a small change, but when you consider we were down 8.2% in 2018, 6.9% in 2017 and 9.1% in 2016, we are clearly moving in a very positive direction. This data affirms progress in our strategy of making incremental improvements in rebuilding enrollment.”
is putting resources into fall to spring retention really the best way to rebuild attendance at a university that has lost as many students overall as um? more so than advertising the university to a wide swath of prospective students in the state of montana? and do you know exactly what changes were made that resulted in this amazing accomplishment? the old timey formula is more counselors, and sometimes, a lowering of academic standards to allow new students to get used to university-level education requirements, and to take remedial courses. is that how you managed to stay enrolled at dartmouth?
You are the one being critical. Why don't you do some research and report back to us?

The fall-spring retention numbers are significant.

Yes, I took all remedial courses in high school, Dartmouth and Stanford law school. Then I was given a job at one of the best law firms in the world. That firm had 2 presidential candidates this election. Then, I was given a job at a very good law firm based in the Midwest/West. That firm has presidential candidate Klobuchar as an alum. Former Vice President Mondale is also an alum of that firm. Everything was given to me or came easy. The remedial courses helped be an all-conference football player too. When you start your life in a two-room shack without running water, electricity, and indoor plumbing, and your dad dies when you are young, everything comes easy. Never had to work a day in my life. Never actually accomplished anything; it was all given to me. Even now, the Trump stock market keeps giving. Never met the guy or voted for him, but like his stock market.

Bodnar has some similarities. Middle class family from smaller town in western Penn. High school sports. West Point gave him its no. 1 rankings in academic and non-academics and a spot on the baseball team. Oxford gave him a Rhodes scholarship. The army gave him a Ranger tab and put him in special forces/Green Beret. Petraeus gave him a nice cushy job in Iraq. GE gave him a nice job. UM gave his a hard job, but he appears to be doing well so far. Probably never worked a day in his life.
argh!
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MikeyGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:31 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm
retiredpopo wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:04 am


Yes he accepted in early Oct. of 2017.
Either way, we all agree, he's only been at it for a year.
two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
And so how would you solve all of UM's ailments and turn the ship around in 2 years?
give me bodnar's salary, and then i'd be happy to tell you!
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kemajic
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argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm
retiredpopo wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:04 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:50 am


Bodnar didn't start until January 2018. He was offered the job and accepted it earlier.
Yes he accepted in early Oct. of 2017.
Either way, we all agree, he's only been at it for a year.
two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
It is only you that believes this was not a good move because Engstom had all the academic credentials and was certain to get things fixed in spite of a steady deterioration over his seven years and not an administrative bone in his body. Protect the academic swamp; resist outside change.
"I woke up still not dead again today." - Willie Nelson
MikeyGriz
Posts: 966
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Location: Billings, MT

argh! wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:41 am
MikeyGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:31 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm

Either way, we all agree, he's only been at it for a year.
two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
And so how would you solve all of UM's ailments and turn the ship around in 2 years?
give me bodnar's salary, and then i'd be happy to tell you!
Nice side step from your ivory tower! I didn't realize you would be willing to take such a pay cut!
I don't watch CNN for the same reason I don't drink out of the toilet bowl!
argh!
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kemajic wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:16 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm
retiredpopo wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:04 am


Yes he accepted in early Oct. of 2017.
Either way, we all agree, he's only been at it for a year.
two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
It is only you that believes this was not a good move because Engstom had all the academic credentials and was certain to get things fixed in spite of a steady deterioration over his seven years and not an administrative bone in his body. Protect the academic swamp; resist outside change.
ah, you and your endless false narrative. can you please stick with at least the semi-truth when trying to insult me? for instance, i never said i liked engstrom. in fact, his 'best friend' was a provost at a university i was at once, and just based off of that guy's clueless decision making i figured engstrom must be a hopeless idiot, too. and he was. indeed, if you ever paid attention to anything other than your own imagination, you would have comprehended when i wrote that academicians are often in over their heads when promoted to managerial positions, as they've never been trained for such positions, much less have any real experience. as for bodnar, i just figure he should be evaluated with the same scrutiny as engstrom, and anybody else in the job. however, based on thin air and an even thinner beard, many of you decided he was the savior um needs, which is something i laugh at and use to needle you. given how butt-hurt you get, it seems i am correct that you cannot point to anything but anecdotal small successes to 'back up' your non-evidenced claims that he is a good president. oh, but he hired your favorite coach, so you didn't take your ball and go home, liked you whined you would if you didn't get your way.
argh!
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MikeyGriz wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:17 pm
argh! wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:41 am
MikeyGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:31 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm


two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
And so how would you solve all of UM's ailments and turn the ship around in 2 years?
give me bodnar's salary, and then i'd be happy to tell you!
Nice side step from your ivory tower! I didn't realize you would be willing to take such a pay cut!
more old, feeble memories of egrizzers on display. i left academia some time ago, as it has largely become a money-making scam first; genuine scholarship and inquiry is not the priority anymore. just money. tenure has become a joke, it needs to be taken out of the equation to free up jobs for people who will actually do academic endeavors. all the "non-profit" schools, i.e. dartmouth, need to be taxed, because all they are about is the dollar. etc.. etc... but don't worry, even greenie can't keep this memory in his aging hippocampus, so you are not alone.
PlayerRep
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argh! wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:03 pm
kemajic wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:16 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm

Either way, we all agree, he's only been at it for a year.
two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
It is only you that believes this was not a good move because Engstom had all the academic credentials and was certain to get things fixed in spite of a steady deterioration over his seven years and not an administrative bone in his body. Protect the academic swamp; resist outside change.
ah, you and your endless false narrative. can you please stick with at least the semi-truth when trying to insult me? for instance, i never said i liked engstrom. in fact, his 'best friend' was a provost at a university i was at once, and just based off of that guy's clueless decision making i figured engstrom must be a hopeless idiot, too. and he was. indeed, if you ever paid attention to anything other than your own imagination, you would have comprehended when i wrote that academicians are often in over their heads when promoted to managerial positions, as they've never been trained for such positions, much less have any real experience. as for bodnar, i just figure he should be evaluated with the same scrutiny as engstrom, and anybody else in the job. however, based on thin air and an even thinner beard, many of you decided he was the savior um needs, which is something i laugh at and use to needle you. given how butt-hurt you get, it seems i am correct that you cannot point to anything but anecdotal small successes to 'back up' your non-evidenced claims that he is a good president. oh, but he hired your favorite coach, so you didn't take your ball and go home, liked you whined you would if you didn't get your way.
You are the one with the false narrative, on Bodnar. My impression is that you are butt hurt that Bodnar didn't have enough academic experience and a PhD. You often post like you are jealous of high achievers, aka Rhodes Scholars, top academic and private schools, people who have made a lot of money, etc.

You have not said or cited anything to back up your assertions and questions. We MT locals, like Kem and myself, read the local articles, talk to UM admin and professor friends, and, at least in my case, talk to Regent friends. Of the 25 or so people I have talked to, some in the know and some not, not one has said anything negative about Bodnar or expressed any doubts.

Interesting on your views on Engstrom. I never noticed that in your posts. Perhaps I just overlooked your comments.
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kemajic
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PlayerRep wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:55 pm
argh! wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:03 pm
kemajic wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:16 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm


two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
It is only you that believes this was not a good move because Engstom had all the academic credentials and was certain to get things fixed in spite of a steady deterioration over his seven years and not an administrative bone in his body. Protect the academic swamp; resist outside change.
ah, you and your endless false narrative. can you please stick with at least the semi-truth when trying to insult me? for instance, i never said i liked engstrom. in fact, his 'best friend' was a provost at a university i was at once, and just based off of that guy's clueless decision making i figured engstrom must be a hopeless idiot, too. and he was. indeed, if you ever paid attention to anything other than your own imagination, you would have comprehended when i wrote that academicians are often in over their heads when promoted to managerial positions, as they've never been trained for such positions, much less have any real experience. as for bodnar, i just figure he should be evaluated with the same scrutiny as engstrom, and anybody else in the job. however, based on thin air and an even thinner beard, many of you decided he was the savior um needs, which is something i laugh at and use to needle you. given how butt-hurt you get, it seems i am correct that you cannot point to anything but anecdotal small successes to 'back up' your non-evidenced claims that he is a good president. oh, but he hired your favorite coach, so you didn't take your ball and go home, liked you whined you would if you didn't get your way.
You are the one with the false narrative, on Bodnar. My impression is that you are butt hurt that Bodnar didn't have enough academic experience and a PhD. You often post like you are jealous of high achievers, aka Rhodes Scholars, top academic and private schools, people who have made a lot of money, etc.

You have not said or cited anything to back up your assertions and questions. We MT locals, like Kem and myself, read the local articles, talk to UM admin and professor friends, and, at least in my case, talk to Regent friends. Of the 25 or so people I have talked to, some in the know and some not, not one has said anything negative about Bodnar or expressed any doubts.

Interesting on your views on Engstrom. I never noticed that in your posts. Perhaps I just overlooked your comments.
I never noticed any of those things in his posts, either. Not that his posts are easy reading. Nothing but negative.
"I woke up still not dead again today." - Willie Nelson
MTGRZ
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wbtfg wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:38 pm
MTGRZ wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:21 pm
The narrative that UM does not offer strong STEM degrees is also false. Getting the public to understand this is crucial. For years people around Montana have assumed that because UM offers liberal arts degrees (things like art, dance, history, english) they don't have quality STEM programs. At the same time, because msu has a quality nursing program and an engineering school people assume the only place to go for science degrees is Bozeman. Both schools have strong STEM degrees to offer students even if people don't know about it.
Is that a marketing/branding issue?
For the most part, yes. And it should/will/is be(ing) changed.
MTGRZ
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indian-outlaw wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:06 pm
MTGRZ wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:21 pm
The narrative that UM does not offer strong STEM degrees is also false. Getting the public to understand this is crucial. For years people around Montana have assumed that because UM offers liberal arts degrees (things like art, dance, history, english) they don't have quality STEM programs. At the same time, because msu has a quality nursing program and an engineering school people assume the only place to go for science degrees is Bozeman. Both schools have strong STEM degrees to offer students even if people don't know about it.
No UM is not strong on STEM academics. Is there another school touting STEM credentials or advertising itself as a flagship University that doesn't have an engineering program? Are we always just going to hang our hat on tech being our STEM outlet? The UM needs to step up and be relevant.
New programs and better alignment of STEM programs are already happening. Will UM ever have an engineering program? I don't know. Are there other valuable STEM degrees at UM? Absolutely. Biochemistry, forestry, wildlife biology, pharmacy, physical therapy, speech therapy, and soon occupational therapy just to name a few. These degrees and others will provide UM students the STEM education they need to have meaningful, well-paid careers.
p8nted
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kemajic wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:15 am
Allezchat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:34 am
I guess I'm going to say that UM does 100% have a branding/marketing problem. I don't know really that it is course offerings as much as some think. As we know, one school is awesome about getting promotional material out to high school students in MT. The other, not so much. Commercials stand out from one. Social media. I work with someone that called both schools looking for some banners to hang in the elementary school for some kind of themed day. Guess who sent nothing and guess who sent boxes to a bunch of little kids who at an early age may be deciding if their one or the other.

Serious question. At what point do you call it a day on the Bodner experiment? Are any of you there? If there were another 1, 2, 5 years of continued decline or stagnation? And realize I do mean "if". I'm not predicting anything. The things he's doing might all the sudden come to fruition. I will say, I always thought it a mistake to hire someone with his lack of collegiate administration experience. But it's an outside the box hire and I was definitely intrigued by the move and I'm not opposed to being proved wrong.

I was told um does have engineering at one point. It's just not as big as MSU's. Was I told wrong?
Bodnar has had nowhere near enough time to turn this ship around. Enrollment figures do not turn overnight with 4 year's of classes on board. His predecessor had your extensive collegiate administration experience; had no clue about marketing, as he believed the University was entitled to have students banging on the door to get in spite of rising tuition costs and dwindling opportunities for the degree products. He ran the University into the ground. Someone from outside was needed to get after costs and move curricula. With tenure and other hurdles within the swamp, it can't happen overnight. UM is grossly overbuilt for the current enrollment which brings along its own costs burden, not easily addressed.

UM's engineering is only at Montana Tech. It is excellent, but much narrower in scope relative to MSU.

With all the MSU marketing you describe, MSU-Billings is struggling at least as badly as UM.
MSU billings just reported a 2.3% increase in enrollment for 2019. Biggest increase in 4 years so no.

https://www.montana.edu/news/19081
Last edited by p8nted on Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
argh!
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PlayerRep wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:55 pm
argh! wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:03 pm
kemajic wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:16 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm


two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
It is only you that believes this was not a good move because Engstom had all the academic credentials and was certain to get things fixed in spite of a steady deterioration over his seven years and not an administrative bone in his body. Protect the academic swamp; resist outside change.
ah, you and your endless false narrative. can you please stick with at least the semi-truth when trying to insult me? for instance, i never said i liked engstrom. in fact, his 'best friend' was a provost at a university i was at once, and just based off of that guy's clueless decision making i figured engstrom must be a hopeless idiot, too. and he was. indeed, if you ever paid attention to anything other than your own imagination, you would have comprehended when i wrote that academicians are often in over their heads when promoted to managerial positions, as they've never been trained for such positions, much less have any real experience. as for bodnar, i just figure he should be evaluated with the same scrutiny as engstrom, and anybody else in the job. however, based on thin air and an even thinner beard, many of you decided he was the savior um needs, which is something i laugh at and use to needle you. given how butt-hurt you get, it seems i am correct that you cannot point to anything but anecdotal small successes to 'back up' your non-evidenced claims that he is a good president. oh, but he hired your favorite coach, so you didn't take your ball and go home, liked you whined you would if you didn't get your way.
You are the one with the false narrative, on Bodnar. My impression is that you are butt hurt that Bodnar didn't have enough academic experience and a PhD. You often post like you are jealous of high achievers, aka Rhodes Scholars, top academic and private schools, people who have made a lot of money, etc.

You have not said or cited anything to back up your assertions and questions. We MT locals, like Kem and myself, read the local articles, talk to UM admin and professor friends, and, at least in my case, talk to Regent friends. Of the 25 or so people I have talked to, some in the know and some not, not one has said anything negative about Bodnar or expressed any doubts.

Interesting on your views on Engstrom. I never noticed that in your posts. Perhaps I just overlooked your comments.
false narrative on bodnar? if you could read, you would be able to decipher that the subject of my post was about the opinion of bodnar by stereotypical egrizzers, like you. other than that, i did indicate that, based on anecdotal evidence here, it would seem um still isn't reaching out to high school students at the level of even msu. this was based of posters writing that their kids and kids' friends received mail from msu and other schools, but not um. these are the same claims that were made back in engstrum's years, ergo my comment that it looked like nothing had changed.

as for jealous, the only people i can really think of who i am jealous of are those who currently have healthy, fit bodies. been dealing with a long-lasting injury lately, which is always a reminder that we should appreciate good health, when we have it.
PlayerRep
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From a Missoulian article on the fall '19 stats. Frosh enrollment and retention up. Both good trends.

"He pointed to two specific metrics: retention, which increased from 68.4% last year to 71.4% this year, and freshman enrollment.

If freshman class sizes keep growing, enrollment eventually will as well. One UM data set, which just counted students who had paid tuition by the 15th day of instruction, showed a 2.7% increase in the number of incoming freshmen, from 1,037 to 1,065."

Enrollment has continued to drop because the graduating classes, i.e. seniors, who enrolled 4 or more years ago, are larger than the smaller classes that are enrolling now. However, frosh enrollment was up last fall, year over year. Plus the much better retention.
MikeyGriz
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Location: Billings, MT

p8nted wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:45 pm
kemajic wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:15 am
Allezchat wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:34 am
I guess I'm going to say that UM does 100% have a branding/marketing problem. I don't know really that it is course offerings as much as some think. As we know, one school is awesome about getting promotional material out to high school students in MT. The other, not so much. Commercials stand out from one. Social media. I work with someone that called both schools looking for some banners to hang in the elementary school for some kind of themed day. Guess who sent nothing and guess who sent boxes to a bunch of little kids who at an early age may be deciding if their one or the other.

Serious question. At what point do you call it a day on the Bodner experiment? Are any of you there? If there were another 1, 2, 5 years of continued decline or stagnation? And realize I do mean "if". I'm not predicting anything. The things he's doing might all the sudden come to fruition. I will say, I always thought it a mistake to hire someone with his lack of collegiate administration experience. But it's an outside the box hire and I was definitely intrigued by the move and I'm not opposed to being proved wrong.

I was told um does have engineering at one point. It's just not as big as MSU's. Was I told wrong?
Bodnar has had nowhere near enough time to turn this ship around. Enrollment figures do not turn overnight with 4 year's of classes on board. His predecessor had your extensive collegiate administration experience; had no clue about marketing, as he believed the University was entitled to have students banging on the door to get in spite of rising tuition costs and dwindling opportunities for the degree products. He ran the University into the ground. Someone from outside was needed to get after costs and move curricula. With tenure and other hurdles within the swamp, it can't happen overnight. UM is grossly overbuilt for the current enrollment which brings along its own costs burden, not easily addressed.

UM's engineering is only at Montana Tech. It is excellent, but much narrower in scope relative to MSU.

With all the MSU marketing you describe, MSU-Billings is struggling at least as badly as UM.
MSU billings just reported a 2.3% increase in enrollment for 2019. Biggest increase in 4 years so no.

https://www.montana.edu/news/19081
How much of that increase is in dual credit part-time students? Doubt if this will translate into increased FTE"s which is how funding is based.

Also, I wish they would not lump the city college enrollment in with the university enrollment. Separate them out and let them stand on their own merits.
I don't watch CNN for the same reason I don't drink out of the toilet bowl!
MikeyGriz
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argh! wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:50 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:55 pm
argh! wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:03 pm
kemajic wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:16 pm

It is only you that believes this was not a good move because Engstom had all the academic credentials and was certain to get things fixed in spite of a steady deterioration over his seven years and not an administrative bone in his body. Protect the academic swamp; resist outside change.
ah, you and your endless false narrative. can you please stick with at least the semi-truth when trying to insult me? for instance, i never said i liked engstrom. in fact, his 'best friend' was a provost at a university i was at once, and just based off of that guy's clueless decision making i figured engstrom must be a hopeless idiot, too. and he was. indeed, if you ever paid attention to anything other than your own imagination, you would have comprehended when i wrote that academicians are often in over their heads when promoted to managerial positions, as they've never been trained for such positions, much less have any real experience. as for bodnar, i just figure he should be evaluated with the same scrutiny as engstrom, and anybody else in the job. however, based on thin air and an even thinner beard, many of you decided he was the savior um needs, which is something i laugh at and use to needle you. given how butt-hurt you get, it seems i am correct that you cannot point to anything but anecdotal small successes to 'back up' your non-evidenced claims that he is a good president. oh, but he hired your favorite coach, so you didn't take your ball and go home, liked you whined you would if you didn't get your way.
You are the one with the false narrative, on Bodnar. My impression is that you are butt hurt that Bodnar didn't have enough academic experience and a PhD. You often post like you are jealous of high achievers, aka Rhodes Scholars, top academic and private schools, people who have made a lot of money, etc.

You have not said or cited anything to back up your assertions and questions. We MT locals, like Kem and myself, read the local articles, talk to UM admin and professor friends, and, at least in my case, talk to Regent friends. Of the 25 or so people I have talked to, some in the know and some not, not one has said anything negative about Bodnar or expressed any doubts.

Interesting on your views on Engstrom. I never noticed that in your posts. Perhaps I just overlooked your comments.
false narrative on bodnar? if you could read, you would be able to decipher that the subject of my post was about the opinion of bodnar by stereotypical egrizzers, like you. other than that, i did indicate that, based on anecdotal evidence here, it would seem um still isn't reaching out to high school students at the level of even msu. this was based of posters writing that their kids and kids' friends received mail from msu and other schools, but not um. these are the same claims that were made back in engstrum's years, ergo my comment that it looked like nothing had changed.

as for jealous, the only people i can really think of who i am jealous of are those who currently have healthy, fit bodies. been dealing with a long-lasting injury lately, which is always a reminder that we should appreciate good health, when we have it.
I believe lots of those posts were referring to pre-Bodnar days when UM had a system showing contacts and materials were being sent, but in reality not.
I don't watch CNN for the same reason I don't drink out of the toilet bowl!
MikeyGriz
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:35 am
Location: Billings, MT

argh! wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:30 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:17 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm
SaskGriz wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 pm

Either way, we all agree, he's only been at it for a year.
two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
Can you point out for us, what UM has done since Bodnar arrived, in recruiting, or not recruiting, in-state students? I don't see any Bodnar stats in the article, only a long term number.

This is what has been positive since Bodnar arrived. Much better retention from fall to spring. 2.3% and 3.0%, compared to 8.2, 6.9 and 9.1.

"“Last year, we had 3.0% fewer students in spring than fall; this year it’s 2.3%,” Cole wrote in the press release. “That may seem like a small change, but when you consider we were down 8.2% in 2018, 6.9% in 2017 and 9.1% in 2016, we are clearly moving in a very positive direction. This data affirms progress in our strategy of making incremental improvements in rebuilding enrollment.”
is putting resources into fall to spring retention really the best way to rebuild attendance at a university that has lost as many students overall as um? more so than advertising the university to a wide swath of prospective students in the state of montana? and do you know exactly what changes were made that resulted in this amazing accomplishment? the old timey formula is more counselors, and sometimes, a lowering of academic standards to allow new students to get used to university-level education requirements, and to take remedial courses. is that how you managed to stay enrolled at dartmouth?
Just like in business, isn't it better to retain what you already have rather than try to replace and start all over again? I would expect it to be more cost efficient in the long run also.

Obviously those that are already there have at least some positive preference to UM, unlike the shotgun approach of trying to attract some of a wide swath of prospects with unknown. preferences.
I don't watch CNN for the same reason I don't drink out of the toilet bowl!
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SoldierGriz
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MikeyGriz wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:36 am
argh! wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:30 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:17 pm
argh! wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:42 pm


two years, and it appears the university still hasn't rectified the most basic problems with recruiting even montana h.s. students. but that doesn't matter, he hired Bobby and can do push-ups. growing a real beard, not so much, but there's time, so be patient! until he gets 'his guys' teaching english 101, he shouldn't be evaluated for anything but push-ups and bobby.
Can you point out for us, what UM has done since Bodnar arrived, in recruiting, or not recruiting, in-state students? I don't see any Bodnar stats in the article, only a long term number.

This is what has been positive since Bodnar arrived. Much better retention from fall to spring. 2.3% and 3.0%, compared to 8.2, 6.9 and 9.1.

"“Last year, we had 3.0% fewer students in spring than fall; this year it’s 2.3%,” Cole wrote in the press release. “That may seem like a small change, but when you consider we were down 8.2% in 2018, 6.9% in 2017 and 9.1% in 2016, we are clearly moving in a very positive direction. This data affirms progress in our strategy of making incremental improvements in rebuilding enrollment.”
is putting resources into fall to spring retention really the best way to rebuild attendance at a university that has lost as many students overall as um? more so than advertising the university to a wide swath of prospective students in the state of montana? and do you know exactly what changes were made that resulted in this amazing accomplishment? the old timey formula is more counselors, and sometimes, a lowering of academic standards to allow new students to get used to university-level education requirements, and to take remedial courses. is that how you managed to stay enrolled at dartmouth?
Just like in business, isn't it better to retain what you already have rather than try to replace and start all over again? I would expect it to be more cost efficient in the long run also.

Obviously those that are already there have at least some positive preference to UM, unlike the shotgun approach of trying to attract some of a wide swath of prospects with unknown. preferences.
My kids get materials from universities located across the nation...so the shotgun approach seems to be a thing for some or many.

Agree retention is important.
FTc, FTv, FTmissoulian
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