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DROP DOWNS MATTER?

S

Sport

Well-known member
General question for discussion. I have no horse in this race but when you see teams like JMU and NDSU dominate the FCS, I believe 9 of the last 10 national championship’s have been won by one or the other. Ok NDSU 8 and JMU 1. Is it because they are 1) better coached, 2) located close to major metropolitan areas with a bigger pool of recruits or 3) have more FBS drop downs?I’m sure there are more factors involved but the trend seems to be stacked in one or the other. Is there a limit on the number of drop downs that can be on any FCS team? Both NDSU and JMU have pretty well manhandled the Big Sky teams and the BSC is supposed to be the second toughest conference in the FCS.
Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Portland State is an orphanage of drop downs, so why are they not better? Of course there is room for transfers and drop downs to fill needs but by and large players need to be developed in the system.
 
I think until you are many years into the same staff having recruited and developed high school kids for years the need for dropdowns is far more than the established programs. But when a weakness is seen, they are still vital. Noticed Choke mentioned areas of weakness needing addressed in post game.....sounds like more dropdowns on the Scat horizon. Take the dropdowns off MSU, they sure wouldn't have been playing today.
 
It appears to me that JMU is more of a beneficiary of drop downs than NDSU who builds depth by developing recruits.
 
Consistency matters. Next year Hauck will tie Bob Stitt for longest coaching stint at UM since 2010. The offense will be the same, the defense same. The coaches look like they'll be the same, or close to the same. That's a big deal.

Hauck used to say that many transfers bring a mercenary attitude to the program that's bad for the team.
 
Ok, let’s take this one step further. Dalton Sneed and Marcus Knight we’re both Jr. college transfers. One poster mentioned in the system, four years to develop, continuity etc. without both of those players what do you think would have been the Griz won/loss record this year? Just saying theoretically a JC transfer would be no more different than a FBS transfer.
 
griz4life said:
Consistency matters. Next year Hauck will tie Bob Stitt for longest coaching stint at UM since 2010. The offense will be the same, the defense same. The coaches look like they'll be the same, or close to the same. That's a big deal.

Hauck used to say that many transfers bring a mercenary attitude to the program that's bad for the team.
Click to expand...
Times change; there's a portal now. Moses Mallory changed the whole attitude of our OL. I wish we had a couple more. The list of drop-downs that have been key contributors at UM is long. We would not consistently compete without them.
 
I think coaching makes all the difference. If your staff treats dropdowns like royalty, they'll have a negative impact on the team. If the coaching staff treats them like any other player, they can be a big benefit. An awful lot of dropdowns think they're going to show up and be Moses leading some bunch of FCS rubes to the promised land, only to find that FCS is still an elite level of football, and that reality check can really fuck with their heads.
 
I am surprised with the production that our JC transfers contributed this year. Years ago, JC transfers could not break into the starting line-up and spent most of their time in the training room.
 
It's easy to look at the success of our transfers and see it as the best recipe for success, but I think that ignores the larger picture. The point that other posters have tried to make is not that transfers are bad for a team, but if you dont have a foundation of players that you recruited out of high school, developed to play in the system, and are committed to the program there will be no cohesiveness to the unit.

Yes, we have had some great transfers who contributed a lot, but that was mostly out of necessity. The coaching staff would much rather recruit and develop players for 4/5 years. That way, they can mold them however they see fit and the team can develop chemistry and an understanding of the expectations that the coaching staff has for them.
 
Sport said:
General question for discussion. I have no horse in this race but when you see teams like JMU and NDSU dominate the FCS, I believe 9 of the last 10 national championship’s have been won by one or the other. Ok NDSU 8 and JMU 1. Is it because they are 1) better coached, 2) located close to major metropolitan areas with a bigger pool of recruits or 3) have more FBS drop downs?I’m sure there are more factors involved but the trend seems to be stacked in one or the other. Is there a limit on the number of drop downs that can be on any FCS team? Both NDSU and JMU have pretty well manhandled the Big Sky teams and the BSC is supposed to be the second toughest conference in the FCS.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Click to expand...

BIG FACTOR is that I believe both programs pay a stipend to their players. For sure NDSU does. If you were to choose, what would be your first choice as a recruit or a transfer...
 
UM does need dropdowns here and there, however keeping the grassroot kids who are lifelong Griz consistently coming are the key for UM. Hauck seams to enjoy the unique advantages UM has in recruiting, also liked his quote on dropdown recruits or transfers, they have to do things the Griz way to earn play time.
Hauck and Co. are good at creating competion and developing players, things are looking bright.
 
SubGriz said:
I think coaching makes all the difference. If your staff treats dropdowns like royalty, they'll have a negative impact on the team. If the coaching staff treats them like any other player, they can be a big benefit. An awful lot of dropdowns think they're going to show up and be Moses leading some bunch of FCS rubes to the promised land, only to find that FCS is still an elite level of football, and that reality check can really [*]f*** with their heads.
Click to expand...
Moses did a pretty good job of leading the OL which seemed to be rudderless before he got here. They're not to the promised land yet, but they're headed in the right direction.
 
Diesel said:
UM does need dropdowns here and there.
Click to expand...
If our objective is to compete with the NDSUs and the JMUs, we need a few more than "here and there." Montana simply does not produce the number of elite prospects that two ambitious FCS universities require to be relevant nationally.
 
kemajic said:
SubGriz said:
I think coaching makes all the difference. If your staff treats dropdowns like royalty, they'll have a negative impact on the team. If the coaching staff treats them like any other player, they can be a big benefit. An awful lot of dropdowns think they're going to show up and be Moses leading some bunch of FCS rubes to the promised land, only to find that FCS is still an elite level of football, and that reality check can really [*]f*** with their heads.
Click to expand...
Moses did a pretty good job of leading the OL which seemed to be rudderless before he got here. They're not to the promised land yet, but they're headed in the right direction.
Click to expand...
Haha, I forgot about Mallory when I posted that. To be clear, I meant the Biblical/figurative Moses, not Moses Mallory specifically.
 
kemajic said:
Diesel said:
UM does need dropdowns here and there.
Click to expand...
If our objective is to compete with the NDSUs and the JMUs, we need a few more than "here and there." Montana simply does not produce the number of elite prospects that two ambitious FCS universities require to be relevant nationally.
Click to expand...

106 players listed on roster, 16 transfers total, 49 instate recruits and two are transfers (Rice and Cook).

These are the numbers in year two with several gaps in roster that were filled with transfers and players changing positions. A transfer isn’t always a dropdown.

Most impactful are Sneed, knight, and Mallory, positions that can be recruited in the Northwest and California where UM’s pipeline is. Sneed being only dropdown per say of those three.

Going forward transfers should fill positions thin due to injury rather than inability to recruit. UM’s pipeline is much larger than just Montana.

Would be nice to see a home grown QB with more than two years of eligibility over hired guns every year or two.
 
Sport said:
General question for discussion. I have no horse in this race but when you see teams like JMU and NDSU dominate the FCS, I believe 9 of the last 10 national championship’s have been won by one or the other. Ok NDSU 8 and JMU 1. Is it because they are 1) better coached, 2) located close to major metropolitan areas with a bigger pool of recruits or 3) have more FBS drop downs?I’m sure there are more factors involved but the trend seems to be stacked in one or the other. Is there a limit on the number of drop downs that can be on any FCS team? Both NDSU and JMU have pretty well manhandled the Big Sky teams and the BSC is supposed to be the second toughest conference in the FCS.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Click to expand...

QB play.

Jensen
Wentz
Stick
Lance

They have caught lightning in a bottle.
 
2011BisonAlumni said:
Sport said:
General question for discussion. I have no horse in this race but when you see teams like JMU and NDSU dominate the FCS, I believe 9 of the last 10 national championship’s have been won by one or the other. Ok NDSU 8 and JMU 1. Is it because they are 1) better coached, 2) located close to major metropolitan areas with a bigger pool of recruits or 3) have more FBS drop downs?I’m sure there are more factors involved but the trend seems to be stacked in one or the other. Is there a limit on the number of drop downs that can be on any FCS team? Both NDSU and JMU have pretty well manhandled the Big Sky teams and the BSC is supposed to be the second toughest conference in the FCS.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Click to expand...

QB play.

Jensen
Wentz
Stick
Lance

They have caught lightning in a bottle.
Click to expand...

The soft conference schedule certainly helps every year. Guys aren’t as beat up come playoff time as they would be in the BSC. That definitely helps.
 
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