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Offensive Line

mtgrizrule

Well-known member
This subject is beginning to clutter the recruiting thread. Let's keep that dedicated to recruiting news and discuss the OL here.

We can all agree, the offensive line play and quality depth has to improve. Do we need more talent on the offensive line? Obviously, the GRIZ do need to improve this unit more than any other. With that said, on the other end of the scale, some are forgetting the importance of young OL naturally maturing, and another off season of workouts.

I am thinking, Hauck brings in 1 or 2 transfers (dropdowns and JC), and 3 to 4 incoming freshmen. As for who are returning, this group will be improved. I have ZERO doubt in that. Villaneuva needs to get healthy and will be a SR. Sirmon did amazing, just having converted to the OL. He will put on the weight and muscle needed. I am looking forward to seeing his progress. What can the kid do, with a full off season to focus on being an offensive lineman? I really love his upside. No doubt, he is emerging as a much needed leader of this unit and team.

As for rest the offensive line, the majority of the group are underclassmen. Many of them will naturally mature physically and menatally. That alone will allow most of them to gain the much needed weight and strength in off season workouts. We all mature at different times. Some guys mature in their teens, and are more ready for Div 1 football. Other guys may not naturally mature until their early 20's. Natural maturation is something the players, nor the coaches have any control of. That is much more important for FCS players. At the FCS level, coaches have to build guys up, into the players they are capable of being.

Speaking of which, we seem to have forgotten, building up players is what Hauck has proven to do best!!!! How many players did he build into NFL level players, his 1st time as coach? Do you think, Hauck just lost that terrific ability and gift of building players? Despite the struggles of the 2018 season, he consistently stated, in time, this group can be dominating. He just didn't know when. Hauck has been brutally honest with fans and media regarding the progress and expectations of this team. I think, he is a much better judge and evaluator of his team, than any of us. We as fans, have to support and have faith in him and his staff. I have ZERO doubt, the offensive line will become great. The big question is, will it be 2019 or 2020? Personally, I think 2020 is more realistic. If it is 2019, then the coaches and players will have exceeded expectations.

As for the upcoming recruting class, if we see fewer OL than we expect, then that might be a sign that Hauck has multiple transfers likely coming in. Those transfers will contribute heavily in 2019 and allow the younger guys the needed time to properly mature.

Can we discuss this in a respectful and honest manner? Discuss away!! #gottahavefaith :thumb:
 
mtgrizrule said:
This subject is beginning to clutter the recruiting thread. Let's keep that dedicated to recruiting news and discuss the OL here.

We can all agree, the offensive line play and quality depth has to improve. Do we need more talent on the offensive line? Obviously, the GRIZ do need to improve this unit more than any other. With that said, on the other end of the scale, some are forgetting the importance of young OL naturally maturing, and another off season of workouts.

I am thinking, Hauck brings in 1 or 2 transfers (dropdowns and JC), and 3 to 4 incoming freshmen. As for who are returning, this group will be improved. I have ZERO doubt in that. Villaneuva needs to get healthy and will be a SR. Sirmon did amazing, just having converted to the OL. He will put on the weight and muscle needed. I am looking forward to seeing his progress. What can the kid do, with a full off season to focus on being an offensive lineman? I really love his upside. No doubt, he is emerging as a much needed leader of this unit and team.

As for rest the offensive line, the majority of the group are underclassmen. Many of them will naturally mature physically and menatally. That alone will allow most of them to gain the much needed weight and strength in off season workouts. We all mature at different times. Some guys mature in their teens, and are more ready for Div 1 football. Other guys may not naturally mature until their early 20's. Natural maturation is something the players, nor the coaches have any control of. That is much more important for FCS players. At the FCS level, coaches have to build guys up, into the players they are capable of being.

Speaking of which, we seem to have forgotten, building up players is what Hauck has proven to do best!!!! How many players did he build into NFL level players, his 1st time as coach? Do you think, Hauck just lost that terrific ability and gift of building players? Despite the struggles of the 2018 season, he consistently stated, in time, this group can be dominating. He just didn't know when. Hauck has been brutally honest with fans and media regarding the progress and expectations of this team. I think, he is a much better judge and evaluator of his team, than any of us. We as fans, have to support and have faith in him and his staff. I have ZERO doubt, the offensive line will become great. The big question is, will it be 2019 or 2020? Personally, I think 2020 is more realistic. If it is 2019, then the coaches and players will have exceeded expectations.

As for the upcoming recruting class, if we see fewer OL than we expect, then that might be a sign that Hauck has multiple transfers likely coming in. Those transfers will contribute heavily in 2019 and allow the younger guys the needed time to properly mature.

Can we discuss this in a respectful and honest manner? Discuss away!! #gottahavefaith :thumb:

agree good post...l really cant get excited until we see OL and DL recruits or transfers..
 
I lost track.........(happening all too often)! What happened to Dallas Hart? Concussed?
 
Generally, I agree. However, I hope we bring in 3 or 4 transfers rather than 2. Hopefully, some of the existing OL will mature/improve, but we can’t be assured it will happen. Finally, I have complete confidence in Bobby Hauck.
 
Spanky2 said:
Generally, I agree. However, I hope we bring in 3 or 4 transfers rather than 2. Hopefully, some of the existing OL will mature/improve, but we can’t be assured it will happen. Finally, I have complete confidence in Bobby Hauck.

No way we bring in that many transfer OL. That’s beyond wishful thinking. We get one or two that would be a good haul.
 
Excellent mtgriz! I showed in that bit about Messingham just how critical the Big Uglies are in this game. The idiots reliving their glory days are the ones who bitch and moan about play calling when the fact of the matter is that any play whether it's out of the wing-t, the pistol which is nothing but the wing-t with a three yard direct snap, the read option, the diamond, etc. and you get the point is only successful if the big guys smack the hell out of the loudmouths the coaches let play in the back five because they have to put them someplace just in case. I personally love watching tight ends go safety and corner hunting downfield. To me that's what football is all about. The ability to execute a play is contingent upon line play.
 
Not looking very good on new oline guys. Most of the high school ones offered have chosen elsewhere and the transfers offered look to be going FBS. Not too long until signing day now so unless they have guys that are not Twitter users might be year two of a very suspect line.
 
dayday said:
Spanky2 said:
Generally, I agree. However, I hope we bring in 3 or 4 transfers rather than 2. Hopefully, some of the existing OL will mature/improve, but we can’t be assured it will happen. Finally, I have complete confidence in Bobby Hauck.

No way we bring in that many transfer OL. That’s beyond wishful thinking. We get one or two that would be a good haul.
Day, maybe, but we need them if we can get them. Unfortunately, we can’t count on the existing OL to cut the mustard.
 
Spanky2 said:
dayday said:
Spanky2 said:
Generally, I agree. However, I hope we bring in 3 or 4 transfers rather than 2. Hopefully, some of the existing OL will mature/improve, but we can’t be assured it will happen. Finally, I have complete confidence in Bobby Hauck.

No way we bring in that many transfer OL. That’s beyond wishful thinking. We get one or two that would be a good haul.
Day, maybe, but we need them if we can get them. Unfortunately, we can’t count on the existing OL to cut the mustard.

Eh I’ve got some hope the young guys will improve but yes some decent transfer OL would help create competition at the very minimum.
 
Great post Mt
Oline and deline are like the foundation of a house.
You can have all the fancy stuff like ,cherry cabinets, travertine floors etc.etc.etc .
But if you have a shitty foundation it's all for nothing , because it will crumble.
Sorry for the building analogy, but i am a carpenter lol
 
Spanky2 said:
dayday said:
Spanky2 said:
Generally, I agree. However, I hope we bring in 3 or 4 transfers rather than 2. Hopefully, some of the existing OL will mature/improve, but we can’t be assured it will happen. Finally, I have complete confidence in Bobby Hauck.

No way we bring in that many transfer OL. That’s beyond wishful thinking. We get one or two that would be a good haul.
Day, maybe, but we need them if we can get them. Unfortunately, we can’t count on the existing OL to cut the mustard.

Asking for a friend; when "someone can't cut the mustard", are they talking about mustard greens in a field, which might be difficult and back breaking or do they mean the actual stuff in a jar? The jar stuff looks like it would be easy to cut, but why the hell would you ever need to? I live in the Great White North and even our mustard doesn't freeze. I think I'd want a kid who could cut the mustard but won't because he knows that is foolish and he's too smart for that.
 
If we need 3-4 transfers, then there better be some current O-linemen either departing or moving to the other side of the ball. And even WITH that many transfers he can’t NOT recruit 4-5 true freshmen otherwise we’ll have holes on the O-line depth in 3-4 years just like now.
 
Unfortunately I'm not holding my breath with this years OL recruiting class. Have not seen/heard anything to make me think they are bringing in the OL guys they so desperately need. Hope I'm wrong, but....
 
Are there any former college or pro OL , or OL coaches, that visit egriz. I'd love to hear how they feel about our current group of OL. Which OL have the most potential? Of the young guys, how many of them truly can grow and be developed into dominating OL? Who just doesn't have it? I know the GRIZ have lacked a dominating mindset for a few too many years now. Which OL have a dominating mindset? Which OL can outright get mean and nasty, when called for? Is a healthy Villanueva capable of being an All American type?

I really have very little experience when it comes to evaluating OL. When I do try to focus on the OL and DL, I find it difficult to follow them, being the trenches are so crowded, watching from afar. I can tell somethings, when watching isolated video. Not that I condone holding, but I saw a lot more holding from opposing OLs at GRIZ home games this year, that wasn't called. I've heard many coaches that want teams to play as the officiating allows (that goes for all sports). I think this OL group would be coached to do just that. Does Hauck and/or Germer believe in testing the officiating? Or would they rather have the OL develop them as the rules permit, and not have to adjust on the fly, game to game? I've also heard many coaches, former players, commentators, etc say, "It's not holding, unless the officials call holding." Safe to say, the conference officials let a lot of holding go this season. Were a few of the OLs better because they played as the officials allowed?

Are there any other Power 5, or even MWC, OL looking to drop down, even if as a 5th year transfer? I hope a media source can get some kind of feedback from Bobby Hauck as to how many OL, and what levels they are, as to recruiting. At least, that would give a few of us some peace of mind.
 
Rule, just a comment....in any sport, I would suggest that you can’t have a dominating mindset unless you have the talent first, then experience competing at a high level. Look what is being accomplished with our basketball team. Then confidence of knowing you can compete is critically important. Most of my knowledge is from tennis, but I believe it to be true in every sport.
 
I'm cautious about posting to this, and may be a bit biased, I've read a lot about O-Line and this my 2 cents.
People seem to have forgot about Dallas Hart, he was the starting center and was lost pre season to a knee injury, if all went well with his knee I would expect him to be the starting Center next year as a Sr.. I would also expect Angel Villanueva to be the starting LG also a Sr.

So let's talk about the other 3 spots.

LT - I expect Sean to push Conlan for starting position (my bias) and FYI Sean is nasty on the field. And if not Conlan will only get better.

RG - I think Tyler Ganoung has a great chance to start (also my bias as he has become a good friend of Seans) FYI Tyler has a nasty streak also. I just can't see keeping Sirmon there as its not his natural position. There is also Cole Sain that has a nasty streak in him. This could be the only spot a JC transfer could take.

RT- I can't see any reason why Colton wouldn't continue to get better and keep this spot.

I won't get into a 2 deep, too much up for grabs there.

The rest:
not sure why everyone is taking about JC or FBS drop downs, at best a JC player would be a Sophomore, so what spot is he going to take? you only take JC if they are going to start. Why on earth would a FBS grad go play in the FCS? never going to happen, they will go to another FBS school. I guess there could some frustrated FBS guy that isn't getting any play time that would be tempted, but how easy is it to find that guy? and why isn't he playing?

Holding, you can grab pads inside the shoulders all day long and it isn't going to get called unless the defender tries to pull away and you don't let go.

What I didn't see from the O-Line this year was some nastiness, pancake a guy and then get on top of him, dominate a guy and then stand over him and let him know you own him...... Sean turned that switch on his Senior year in HS, nothing like taking the "will to play" out of a defender...

Germer is a good coach and I think the line will be better next year (again my bias)
 
maroonandsilver said:
I wonder if UM not paying cost of education stipends figures in to potential drop-downs decisions.

I would think it is a factor not only for drop-downs, but for high school kids also.
 
atomik235 said:
I'm cautious about posting to this, and may be a bit biased, I've read a lot about O-Line and this my 2 cents.
People seem to have forgot about Dallas Hart, he was the starting center and was lost pre season to a knee injury, if all went well with his knee I would expect him to be the starting Center next year as a Sr.. I would also expect Angel Villanueva to be the starting LG also a Sr.

So let's talk about the other 3 spots.

LT - I expect Sean to push Conlan for starting position (my bias) and FYI Sean is nasty on the field. And if not Conlan will only get better.

RG - I think Tyler Ganoung has a great chance to start (also my bias as he has become a good friend of Seans) FYI Tyler has a nasty streak also. I just can't see keeping Sirmon there as its not his natural position. There is also Cole Sain that has a nasty streak in him. This could be the only spot a JC transfer could take.

RT- I can't see any reason why Colton wouldn't continue to get better and keep this spot.

I won't get into a 2 deep, too much up for grabs there.

The rest:
not sure why everyone is taking about JC or FBS drop downs, at best a JC player would be a Sophomore, so what spot is he going to take? you only take JC if they are going to start. Why on earth would a FBS grad go play in the FCS? never going to happen, they will go to another FBS school. I guess there could some frustrated FBS guy that isn't getting any play time that would be tempted, but how easy is it to find that guy? and why isn't he playing?

Holding, you can grab pads inside the shoulders all day long and it isn't going to get called unless the defender tries to pull away and you don't let go.

What I didn't see from the O-Line this year was some nastiness, pancake a guy and then get on top of him, dominate a guy and then stand over him and let him know you own him...... Sean turned that switch on his Senior year in HS, nothing like taking the "will to play" out of a defender...

Germer is a good coach and I think the line will be better next year (again my bias)

I agree with this. People quickly forget WHY we were not great in the offensive line this year. the reason why we struggled is because we had injuries early, we were extremely young and we had no depth until the fall because of the players that left and deficiency in recruiting OL in the previous years. We now have 18 OL on the roster for next year...that's about how many we should have. 8 of those 8 were true freshman this last year. Those kids haven't even learned the position at the college level yet although many got much better through the year as they were fire tested. We will have 2 senior starters next year. 3 of the true freshman this year that played a lot were highly touted coming in and all 3 will likely grow in ability quite a bit from year 1-2.

Overall, assuming we don't lose any OL players we are in decent shape for next year up front. We might see a transfer or 2 at max but its not the end of the world if we don't. We do of course need to bring in some freshman as well but its not a situation anymore to where we need 4-5 recruits there.
 
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