State of Grizzly Football

Get the low down on Griz/FCS Football
Growler1
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Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:12 pm

i do not know about you, but I am concerned that our football program has taken a major step backwards, and the reign of excellence that we have enjoyed for 20 years may be coming to an end. We all want to think that this is just a hiccup, and that come fall, our boys will once again dominate Big Sky opponents just like usual. But, I think many of you realize, as I do, that there so many obstacles standing in our way, that I believe that it will take at least two seasons to return to where we were. Here are some of those obstacles:

graduation of most of our defense
loss of Pflu and both coordinators, plus Beers
tenuous QB situation, with no proven depth behind JJ, even if he plays next season

I will still be an avid Griz fan, and hope that my fears are unfounded. But, I always deal in reality, and I think we might have a couple of tough years until we can resume our dominance, which I think we will accomplish again.
HighLineGRIZ
Posts: 2281
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:41 pm
Location: Eagle, ID

I think on paper, even with the obstacles that you point out, we are still a contender for next year. I think we've reloaded on the DL. CB remains to be seen and could be our achilees heel this year. I think we've upgraded at Offensive Coordinator. I think Beers is a bigger loss than Smith, but i feel Delaney has done a solid job bringing the team together, establishing leadership and building unity. JJ coming back will be key. I like the talent we've got behind him, but he's the only QB that is ready to lead our offense right now. The others are young with little to no experience (besides Kemp who i would hope stays at WR). It'll be a trying year, no doubt, but there have been years in the past that I've been more concerned about our ability to stay on top and we end up there anyways. Regardless of how we do, I'm more concerned with our abiity to regain our perceived integrity as a class program.
grizindabox
eGriz Club
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Location: Spokane, WA

I believe last season was just a lucky streak and that the Griz football program has been on a decline for the past several years. I think that Griz football will be more like Pflu's first season moving forwards than last season.
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
― Issac Asimov
Silvertip
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 6:34 pm
Location: Denver CO

Seeing the bannered above the fold hard print copies of the Missoulian yesterday and today (Sun) I'm thinking Thee Missoulian has given Gwen Florio the green light to trash any and everybody enroute to a Pulitzer prize for investigative reporting. Much of today's expose' has surfaced from multiple emails obtained thorough the Freedom of Information Act - and damned near everybody from the Zootown police to the Main Hall janitor looks as incompetent and or devious as hell.

One overriding thread is that President Royce Engstrom has proven himself to be a hugely naive dufus to ever think that pleading the 5th would ever kill the sex abuse(s)/AD&Coach firings and save his or anybody elses ass from total embarrassment. As soon as it's expedient, the BOR needs to can his sorry amateur night butt. I implore anybody who cares a whit about UM's future to read this weekend's Missoulian. Our school's reputation, as well as the city's, is definately headed waaaay south.
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference" M. Twain
sdgriz_24
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: Billings

Luckily there have been fair weather fans predicting "our" demise since I joined in 2006. Never was a big Hauck or Plfu fan but to think Montana is just going to become a mediocre program playing in the FCS is laughable.
maroonandsilver
eGriz Club
Posts: 2343
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:25 am

Silvertip wrote:Seeing the bannered above the fold hard print copies of the Missoulian yesterday and today (Sun) I'm thinking Thee Missoulian has given Gwen Florio the green light to trash any and everybody enroute to a Pulitzer prize for investigative reporting. Much of today's expose' has surfaced from multiple emails obtained thorough the Freedom of Information Act - and damned near everybody from the Zootown police to the Main Hall janitor looks as incompetent and or devious as hell.

One overriding thread is that President Royce Engstrom has proven himself to be a hugely naive dufus to ever think that pleading the 5th would ever kill the sex abuse(s)/AD&Coach firings and save his or anybody elses ass from total embarrassment. As soon as it's expedient, the BOR needs to can his sorry amateur night butt. I implore anybody who cares a whit about UM's future to read this weekend's Missoulian. Our school's reputation, as well as the city's, is definately headed waaaay south.
My impression, after reading the Missoulian articles the past two days, is that O'Day is the only guy who has his head on straight.
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Tokyogriz
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Location: Missoula, MT

Yep
Pics - Aki Hoshino ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vNqfqoExwk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
mtgrizrule
Posts: 21557
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Missoula

As for this season, I am not really worried, yet. IF, JJ does not return, I will be a little more concerned.

Fortunately for the GRIZ, most the conference is questionable at best. There is only a handful of other programs that are solid, MSU, EWU, Weber State, and Portland State. Who knows what to expect from Sac State, Cal Poly, Davis, SUU, North Dakota. Idaho State and UNC, cannot get worse, can they? NAU, when have they ever been better than average?


With all the shake up, and movements in NCAA div 1 football, no proven leadership, or questionable at best decision making at the University of Montana, I am concerned about our long term future. The one guy that had a clue, and a good grasp of what is becoming reality, is gone (O'day). Like him (I do), or not, got to admit he had a very accurate read college football landscape, and seemed willing to take on the challenge.

University personnel aside, what are the citizens of Montana willing to accept, and/or support, in terms of collegiate athletics? To succeed, we will need more people to be more openminded, and actually think in the current modern times, and leave behind the pre 2000's thinking. That a lone, is asking a lot of GRIZ fans, Cat fans, and most the state.

If the GRIZ hire an AD with a game plan toward moving with the times, I will be very excited for our future. IF our new AD is one that accept as is, we better have our life boats ready, the Montana ship will be a tragic sinking.

No, this is not me saying, or expecting we have to part of the BCS big boys. It is me wanting a game plan that will allow Montana athletics, and football to continue to move forward. If not, all of the hard work, started in the 80's will all be, for not.

I asked this in another thread, and not one response. With Montana's population, culture, resources, and finances, are we willing to accept, and support one NCAA div 1 athletic program, just like Nebraska, and Wyoming have? I honestly don't see how Montana can support 2 Div 1 programs, and be competitive with all the changes. I hope this does not come to reality, but I do believe it should be considered as a viable option.

Good thread, by the way, Growler.
Thank you all. God Bless every soldier fighting for our country!!!!
Spanky
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Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:04 pm

+1
ALPHAGRIZ1
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Status: "Band" July 2016

maroonandsilver wrote:
Silvertip wrote:Seeing the bannered above the fold hard print copies of the Missoulian yesterday and today (Sun) I'm thinking Thee Missoulian has given Gwen Florio the green light to trash any and everybody enroute to a Pulitzer prize for investigative reporting. Much of today's expose' has surfaced from multiple emails obtained thorough the Freedom of Information Act - and damned near everybody from the Zootown police to the Main Hall janitor looks as incompetent and or devious as hell.

One overriding thread is that President Royce Engstrom has proven himself to be a hugely naive dufus to ever think that pleading the 5th would ever kill the sex abuse(s)/AD&Coach firings and save his or anybody elses ass from total embarrassment. As soon as it's expedient, the BOR needs to can his sorry amateur night butt. I implore anybody who cares a whit about UM's future to read this weekend's Missoulian. Our school's reputation, as well as the city's, is definately headed waaaay south.
My impression, after reading the Missoulian articles the past two days, is that O'Day is the only guy who has his head on straight.
Exactly how is that a rational thought?

EVERYBODY knows that ODay looked the other way for over a decade while crime after crime was committed and DID NOTHING, ZIP, ZERO, NADA to stop or fix the problem.

Thank god somebody had the balls to can that ass clown and get things back on track.
PlayerRep
Posts: 29187
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:
maroonandsilver wrote:
Silvertip wrote:Seeing the bannered above the fold hard print copies of the Missoulian yesterday and today (Sun) I'm thinking Thee Missoulian has given Gwen Florio the green light to trash any and everybody enroute to a Pulitzer prize for investigative reporting. Much of today's expose' has surfaced from multiple emails obtained thorough the Freedom of Information Act - and damned near everybody from the Zootown police to the Main Hall janitor looks as incompetent and or devious as hell.

One overriding thread is that President Royce Engstrom has proven himself to be a hugely naive dufus to ever think that pleading the 5th would ever kill the sex abuse(s)/AD&Coach firings and save his or anybody elses ass from total embarrassment. As soon as it's expedient, the BOR needs to can his sorry amateur night butt. I implore anybody who cares a whit about UM's future to read this weekend's Missoulian. Our school's reputation, as well as the city's, is definately headed waaaay south.
My impression, after reading the Missoulian articles the past two days, is that O'Day is the only guy who has his head on straight.
Exactly how is that a rational thought?

EVERYBODY knows that ODay looked the other way for over a decade while crime after crime was committed and DID NOTHING, ZIP, ZERO, NADA to stop or fix the problem.

Thank god somebody had the balls to can that ass clown and get things back on track.
Not true regarding O'Day. He caused prompt reporting and action in virtually all of the issues in the athletic department as soon as he became aware of them. Engstrom and his office were involved in most of the decisions since Engstrom became president. Part of the reason for the problems and press scrutiny in since the fall of 2010 is because of bad decisions and mishandling by Engstrom and university personnel. Look at the some of the statements and decisions by the Dean. The handling of the Saudi incident is a prime example. The recent overturning of the Dean's decision in a sexual assault matter, by a 7-0 vote of a panel, is another example.
garizzalies
Posts: 4678
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:14 pm

This email answered my question re WHY Oday and Pflu got fired:
[O’Day] crossed out:
“Coach Pflugrad (word missing) that an incident occurred and allegedly involved some football players. Coach Pflugrad did discipline players at the time, but did not report the incident to his supervisor. This is the ‘gap’ in reporting pointed out by our investigator, Diane Barz.”
Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/local/um-dea ... z1vRgAhBDA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I assume the "missing word" is "knew." So i assume Pflu knew, did not report ala JoePa, and Oday wanted to cover it up by crossing out. When added to the JJ comments, that's all the basis i need.
Spanky
Posts: 5469
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:04 pm

UM is under attack by the national media like few institutions experience and Engstrom is on vacation....give me a break! A change is necessary before the ship sinks. :cry: :cry:
PlayerRep
Posts: 29187
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

garizzalies wrote:This email answered my question re WHY Oday and Pflu got fired:
[O’Day] crossed out:
“Coach Pflugrad (word missing) that an incident occurred and allegedly involved some football players. Coach Pflugrad did discipline players at the time, but did not report the incident to his supervisor. This is the ‘gap’ in reporting pointed out by our investigator, Diane Barz.”
Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/local/um-dea ... z1vRgAhBDA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I assume the "missing word" is "knew." So i assume Pflu knew, did not report ala JoePa, and Oday wanted to cover it up by crossing out. When added to the JJ comments, that's all the basis i need.
There are no obligation for Pflu to report the matter to anyone. Nothing in the UM policies and procedures required reporting. The police provided limited information to Pflu, saying they were not going to pursue the matter. Pflu didn't get fired for that. See the below quote from the final Barz report.

"December 2010: Alleged rape against student by multiple students. Police report filed. No charges brought. Police provided limited information about allegations to University employee. The situation was addressed with the students allegedly involved. UM does not have guidelines and procedures requiring reporting of information of the nature received in the manner this information was received. UM is currently reviewing its guidelines and procedures. The student has just come forward to University (January 2012) Officials and indicated that she wants to proceed with the student conduct code process. Investigation ongoing."
Growler1
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Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:12 pm

sdgriz_24 wrote:Luckily there have been fair weather fans predicting "our" demise since I joined in 2006. Never was a big Hauck or Plfu fan but to think Montana is just going to become a mediocre program playing in the FCS is laughable.
You apparently failed to read the post. What a joke to call any fan fair-weather for merely expressing an opinion about the immediate prospects of our team. If I am fair-weathered, then it could be said that you are in denial.
RABIDAWG
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 3:34 pm

mtgrizrule wrote:As for this season, I am not really worried, yet. IF, JJ does not return, I will be a little more concerned.

Fortunately for the GRIZ, most the conference is questionable at best. There is only a handful of other programs that are solid, MSU, EWU, Weber State, and Portland State. Who knows what to expect from Sac State, Cal Poly, Davis, SUU, North Dakota. Idaho State and UNC, cannot get worse, can they? NAU, when have they ever been better than average?


With all the shake up, and movements in NCAA div 1 football, no proven leadership, or questionable at best decision making at the University of Montana, I am concerned about our long term future. The one guy that had a clue, and a good grasp of what is becoming reality, is gone (O'day). Like him (I do), or not, got to admit he had a very accurate read college football landscape, and seemed willing to take on the challenge.

University personnel aside, what are the citizens of Montana willing to accept, and/or support, in terms of collegiate athletics? To succeed, we will need more people to be more openminded, and actually think in the current modern times, and leave behind the pre 2000's thinking. That a lone, is asking a lot of GRIZ fans, Cat fans, and most the state.

If the GRIZ hire an AD with a game plan toward moving with the times, I will be very excited for our future. IF our new AD is one that accept as is, we better have our life boats ready, the Montana ship will be a tragic sinking.

No, this is not me saying, or expecting we have to part of the BCS big boys. It is me wanting a game plan that will allow Montana athletics, and football to continue to move forward. If not, all of the hard work, started in the 80's will all be, for not.

I asked this in another thread, and not one response. With Montana's population, culture, resources, and finances, are we willing to accept, and support one NCAA div 1 athletic program, just like Nebraska, and Wyoming have? I honestly don't see how Montana can support 2 Div 1 programs, and be competitive with all the changes. I hope this does not come to reality, but I do believe it should be considered as a viable option.

Good thread, by the way, Growler.
Well, Wyoming hasn't done that great. But taking your suggestion....One Div 1 FBS football team here, and move Basketball to MSU? They could both be better contenders, but no one will be happy. Too much infrastructure investments. Turn all the NAIA schools into Juco's to feed the programs? Now everyone is unhappy!
Now, dammit, get out there and HURT somebody!
mtgrizrule
Posts: 21557
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Missoula

RABIDAWG wrote:
mtgrizrule wrote:As for this season, I am not really worried, yet. IF, JJ does not return, I will be a little more concerned.

Fortunately for the GRIZ, most the conference is questionable at best. There is only a handful of other programs that are solid, MSU, EWU, Weber State, and Portland State. Who knows what to expect from Sac State, Cal Poly, Davis, SUU, North Dakota. Idaho State and UNC, cannot get worse, can they? NAU, when have they ever been better than average?


With all the shake up, and movements in NCAA div 1 football, no proven leadership, or questionable at best decision making at the University of Montana, I am concerned about our long term future. The one guy that had a clue, and a good grasp of what is becoming reality, is gone (O'day). Like him (I do), or not, got to admit he had a very accurate read college football landscape, and seemed willing to take on the challenge.

University personnel aside, what are the citizens of Montana willing to accept, and/or support, in terms of collegiate athletics? To succeed, we will need more people to be more openminded, and actually think in the current modern times, and leave behind the pre 2000's thinking. That a lone, is asking a lot of GRIZ fans, Cat fans, and most the state.

If the GRIZ hire an AD with a game plan toward moving with the times, I will be very excited for our future. IF our new AD is one that accept as is, we better have our life boats ready, the Montana ship will be a tragic sinking.

No, this is not me saying, or expecting we have to part of the BCS big boys. It is me wanting a game plan that will allow Montana athletics, and football to continue to move forward. If not, all of the hard work, started in the 80's will all be, for not.

I asked this in another thread, and not one response. With Montana's population, culture, resources, and finances, are we willing to accept, and support one NCAA div 1 athletic program, just like Nebraska, and Wyoming have? I honestly don't see how Montana can support 2 Div 1 programs, and be competitive with all the changes. I hope this does not come to reality, but I do believe it should be considered as a viable option.

Good thread, by the way, Growler.
Well, Wyoming hasn't done that great. But taking your suggestion....One Div 1 FBS football team here, and move Basketball to MSU? They could both be better contenders, but no one will be happy. Too much infrastructure investments. Turn all the NAIA schools into Juco's to feed the programs? Now everyone is unhappy!
I am not saying we need to do it, nor should. Just thinking, the more we maintain our way of doing things, the more likely we are too fall behind. It has been mentioned many times, how we do not have the corporate backing, population, economy, etc to move up, and be competitive. IF, the state wanted to do this, what would be the best way to do it? Or do we just sit pat, and accept being less than what we could be? Sort of like we have been, but I fear the repercussions may be greater later, than now.
Thank you all. God Bless every soldier fighting for our country!!!!
garizzalies
Posts: 4678
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:14 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
garizzalies wrote:This email answered my question re WHY Oday and Pflu got fired:
[O’Day] crossed out:
“Coach Pflugrad (word missing) that an incident occurred and allegedly involved some football players. Coach Pflugrad did discipline players at the time, but did not report the incident to his supervisor. This is the ‘gap’ in reporting pointed out by our investigator, Diane Barz.”
Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/local/um-dea ... z1vRgAhBDA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I assume the "missing word" is "knew." So i assume Pflu knew, did not report ala JoePa, and Oday wanted to cover it up by crossing out. When added to the JJ comments, that's all the basis i need.
There are no obligation for Pflu to report the matter to anyone. Nothing in the UM policies and procedures required reporting. ...
Was there a written obligation for JoePa to report his knowledge of sexual abuse? does there have to be?
In the email, Oday is literally "covering up" football transgressions; it doesn't get any more blatant.
PlayerRep
Posts: 29187
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

garizzalies wrote:
PlayerRep wrote:
garizzalies wrote:This email answered my question re WHY Oday and Pflu got fired:
[O’Day] crossed out:
“Coach Pflugrad (word missing) that an incident occurred and allegedly involved some football players. Coach Pflugrad did discipline players at the time, but did not report the incident to his supervisor. This is the ‘gap’ in reporting pointed out by our investigator, Diane Barz.”
Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/local/um-dea ... z1vRgAhBDA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I assume the "missing word" is "knew." So i assume Pflu knew, did not report ala JoePa, and Oday wanted to cover it up by crossing out. When added to the JJ comments, that's all the basis i need.
There are no obligation for Pflu to report the matter to anyone. Nothing in the UM policies and procedures required reporting. ...
Was there a written obligation for JoePa to report his knowledge of sexual abuse? does there have to be?
In the email, Oday is literally "covering up" football transgressions; it doesn't get any more blatant.
JoePA reported the incident to the AD and university VP who oversaw security. What are you talking about?

O'Day didn't cover up anything. In the incident described in the above quote, in which the police contacted Pflu to say they had investigated an incident and decided not to pursue it (presumably because there was lack of evidence and/or they didn't believe the accuser), O'Day wasn't aware of the incident. Pflu took internal disciplinary action. None of the other emails show any cover-up whatsoever. In the emails, O'Day appears to be trying to help get the descriptions of the matters accurate. That's not covering anything up.
garizzalies
Posts: 4678
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:14 pm

You're doing it wrong. You can't say that Oday "didn't cover up anything" anymore because the email shows that he literally did. you need to come up with a new stategy or a new euphemism for "sweeping things under the rug." Maybe you can argue that he literally did not "sweep it under the rug"? That might confuse griz nation long enuf to come up with a better response.
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