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Griz and MWC

BSC or MWC, they are both really irrelevant in the college football landscape. But I would prefer games against the Colorado States, Utah States, and Wyomings each week rather than the Northern Colorados and Portland States of the world. But if we want to talk the college basketball world, than the MWC is a huge step forward. So to me, a move to the MWC would be a huge step forward for the athletic department as a whole.
 
mthoopsfan said:
dupuyer griz said:
Ok, sell me on it.
Convince me it’s a good thing for the season to be over around November 20 every year.
Convince me playing in the Idaho potato bowl is a good thing.
Convince me not to be excited for a playoff game.
Convince me that it will be awesome to never have a chance to win a national championship for the rest of my life.
Convince me that being in the mountain west will make us “relevant.” Keeping in mind that the teams leaving to make room for us are the teams you associate the mountain wests greatness with.
Really really sell me on all of this and I’ll change my mind. Until then, spare me the we should move up because it would be far superior bullshit. FBS group of 5 is the most irrelevant form of football there is. They have no championship and every 20 years they might let a Boise State or Cincinnati have a shot with the big boys and then lock them back out for another 20.
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And convince us that UM would have the funds necessary to move to the MW, and the funds necessary to compete at a high level?

When I see cliches used at arguments, on egriz and in politics, I immediately think the user doesn't know what's talking about or has no real arguments.
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Regarding the necessary funds, I don’t have the answer. If lack of the necessary funds stopped a move up, that would be understandable and unfortunate.
 
argh! said:
i am not a big 'move-up' advocate, but would like to see restructuring which would put the griz with all the former fcs schools they used to play (within reason), i.e. jmu, etc... if many former national rivals hadn't moved up, i highly doubt the griz would be anywhere near the top ten in the fcs, and surely not #2.

having said that, your list of criteria is made to give you the answers you want, not actually discuss the idea of improving the level of competition for the griz. it also qualifies as defeatist, at least to me. but hey, we can all have the opinion we want to have, and that comment isn't meant to be personal.
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What happens if all the G5 end up in a playoff system and only kinda sorta invite FCS schools? I think the possibility isn’t 0… it may not be 50%, though.

It’s a fine line. What good is a message board if you can’t dream? Just as importantly, what good is a message board if you can’t squash those dreams with well-placed skepticism? This is a favorite topic on nearly everyone’s board.

There seems to be an accusation that the administration hasn’t considered this possibility. I highly doubt it.
 
I hate to use a non-football analogy, but this is what popped into my mind after reading the pro-move-up arguments.
Baseball. Nolan Ryan on the mound, in his prime, vs your average player. Ryan throws six 108 mph fastballs past the first two bona fide major league hitters. You are up next, and the coach signals you to bunt. Yeah, step in front of one of those re-entry speed killers and try to lay one down the third base line.
Cheech and Chong had skit about Japanese Kamikami pilots being instructed on how to perform their job. Perhaps you remember it:

WW II Japanese General:
"Honorable kamikazi pilot. For the rising sun and for our Japon , you are uh going on a most dangerous mission . You take kamikazi plane far up in the sky ,you find an American aircraft carrier , you take kamikaze plane , down fast , kill yourself and all aboard. Do I have any questions? Yes, in the back, Sakimoto."

"Honorable General Sir."

"Ah so."

"Are you out of your fucking mind?"


Moving up to MWC may have some downside, IMHO.
 
Not sure what the media payout is for the Mountain West schools but am guessing it’s less than 5 mill per year. However, even this amount would help offset some of the costs of moving up…..am I missing something?
 
BrownBear9501 said:
Not sure what the media payout is for the Mountain West schools but am guessing it’s less than 5 mill per year. However, even this amount would help offset some of the costs of moving up…..am I missing something?
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"The Mountain West currently pays out just over $4 million per year, " Source: Mountain West Wire and Yahoo Sports. July 21, 2022.
 
ilovethecats said:
Spanky2 said:
This national championship of a depleted FCS, some would say is a B League championship that few are aware that it exists. Further, they might comment that few decent teams other than North Dakota State remain after the good teams have moved to FBS.
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Just to play devils advocate here Spanky.

Is it not odd that a team that hasn't even made it to the "B-League Championship" in well over a decade thinks they should be one to move up a level? I'm not getting into the move-up thing. No one is going to change anyones mind. But unless you're NDSU, I can't see why any other program feels they are too good for the FCS right now. It just strikes me as odd that some Griz fans act like they are way to good for this depleted B-League conference when they are far from dominating said B-League.

Not intending to talk smack, just trying to figure out the mindset.
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Just to double down on the devil thing, I'd suggest the following:

First, a move to the the MWC would be about much more than football. That tends to be what we focus on on this board, but think what it would mean to the basketball programs, as well as the Olympic sports. The additional basketball revenue alone would go a long way toward defraying any additional expenses, and give UM a much greater chance at not only making the NCAA tournament, but drawing a decent seed (because they wouldn't be playing in a conference with an RPI which is often second to last in the nation).

Second, a move isn't only about winning. There are so many factors that factor in, and I'd argue on-field success is probably 8th or 9th. Sure, you've got to be good enough to attract attention. But things like facilities, fan base, alumni and administrative support, donor levels, history, passion and prestige all matter. And UM has all of those things, largely in spades.

Finally -- and this addresses points other posters raised -- the playoffs are great. We all love the playoffs. But that doesn't equate to "relevance". The fcs playoffs, I would argue, are in fact the text book example of irrelevance. We care because we have a team playing. But 99% of the rest of the country -- even the hardcore college football fanatics -- couldn't name 3 of the top 8 seeds. And if they did, they'd still refer to them as the "Division II playoffs".
 
I think we should move up when/if the fbs playoff is expanded to allow mid-major conferences an ave. to compete for the championship.
 
:thumb:

EverettGriz said:
ilovethecats said:
Just to play devils advocate here Spanky.

Is it not odd that a team that hasn't even made it to the "B-League Championship" in well over a decade thinks they should be one to move up a level? I'm not getting into the move-up thing. No one is going to change anyones mind. But unless you're NDSU, I can't see why any other program feels they are too good for the FCS right now. It just strikes me as odd that some Griz fans act like they are way to good for this depleted B-League conference when they are far from dominating said B-League.

Not intending to talk smack, just trying to figure out the mindset.
Click to expand...

Just to double down on the devil thing, I'd suggest the following:

First, a move to the the MWC would be about much more than football. That tends to be what we focus on on this board, but think what it would mean to the basketball programs, as well as the Olympic sports. The additional basketball revenue alone would go a long way toward defraying any additional expenses, and give UM a much greater chance at not only making the NCAA tournament, but drawing a decent seed (because they wouldn't be playing in a conference with an RPI which is often second to last in the nation).

Second, a move isn't only about winning. There are so many factors that factor in, and I'd argue on-field success is probably 8th or 9th. Sure, you've got to be good enough to attract attention. But things like facilities, fan base, alumni and administrative support, donor levels, history, passion and prestige all matter. And UM has all of those things, largely in spades.

Finally -- and this addresses points other posters raised -- the playoffs are great. We all love the playoffs. But that doesn't equate to "relevance". The fcs playoffs, I would argue, are in fact the text book example of irrelevance. We care because we have a team playing. But 99% of the rest of the country -- even the hardcore college football fanatics -- couldn't name 3 of the top 8 seeds. And if they did, they'd still refer to them as the "Division II playoffs".
Click to expand...
 
BrownBear9501 said:
Not sure what the media payout is for the Mountain West schools but am guessing it’s less than 5 mill per year. However, even this amount would help offset some of the costs of moving up…..am I missing something?
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Exactly! I don’t get it either.
UM’s revenue from athletics is about $23m and its expenses are about $22m leaving about $1mil in “profits”.
The MWC pays a bonus of $4m. So basically our current amount and quadruple more profit.
Most would jump at the opportunity of 4x the profit and manage expenses accordingly going forward.
 
dupuyer griz said:
Fahque said:
what's laughable are defeatist attitudes like yours… If we are not looking to move forward, we are really only moving backwards
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Ok, sell me on it.
Convince me it’s a good thing for the season to be over around November 20 every year.
Convince me playing in the Idaho potato bowl is a good thing.
Convince me not to be excited for a playoff game.
Convince me that it will be awesome to never have a chance to win a national championship for the rest of my life.
Convince me that being in the mountain west will make us “relevant.” Keeping in mind that the teams leaving to make room for us are the teams you associate the mountain wests greatness with.
Really really sell me on all of this and I’ll change my mind. Until then, spare me the we should move up because it would be far superior bullshit. FBS group of 5 is the most irrelevant form of football there is. They have no championship and every 20 years they might let a Boise State or Cincinnati have a shot with the big boys and then lock them back out for another 20.
Click to expand...

Convince me UM would be able to recruit to compete. If you think ESG - GCG is bad now.....
 
Bear Spray said:
dupuyer griz said:
Ok, sell me on it.
Convince me it’s a good thing for the season to be over around November 20 every year.
Convince me playing in the Idaho potato bowl is a good thing.
Convince me not to be excited for a playoff game.
Convince me that it will be awesome to never have a chance to win a national championship for the rest of my life.
Convince me that being in the mountain west will make us “relevant.” Keeping in mind that the teams leaving to make room for us are the teams you associate the mountain wests greatness with.
Really really sell me on all of this and I’ll change my mind. Until then, spare me the we should move up because it would be far superior bullshit. FBS group of 5 is the most irrelevant form of football there is. They have no championship and every 20 years they might let a Boise State or Cincinnati have a shot with the big boys and then lock them back out for another 20.
Click to expand...

Convince me UM would be able to recruit to compete. If you think ESG - GCG is bad now.....
Click to expand...

After watching the MSU-Wyoming game last season, you don't think the top BSC schools are almost comparable to the MWC schools and it wouldn't take a huge leap?
 
I'm just going to answer one question. We would automatically be more relevant with a move up because we at least wouldn't be viewed as a glorified high school. The lowest of the low fbs teams are viewed as a hell of a lot better. I don't get people's fascination of playing in a playoff system with a bunch of teams that no one gives a shit about and most of them have 3-5 thousand fans... 🤔 😒 🙄
 
garizzalies said:
BrownBear9501 said:
Not sure what the media payout is for the Mountain West schools but am guessing it’s less than 5 mill per year. However, even this amount would help offset some of the costs of moving up…..am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Exactly! I don’t get it either.
UM’s revenue from athletics is about $23m and its expenses are about $22m leaving about $1mil in “profits”.
The MWC pays a bonus of $4m. So basically our current amount and quadruple more profit.
Most would jump at the opportunity of 4x the profit and manage expenses accordingly going forward.
Click to expand...

If lack of funding is a myth, there isn’t another valid reason not to move up.
 
Spanky2 said:
garizzalies said:
Exactly! I don’t get it either.
UM’s revenue from athletics is about $23m and its expenses are about $22m leaving about $1mil in “profits”.
The MWC pays a bonus of $4m. So basically our current amount and quadruple more profit.
Most would jump at the opportunity of 4x the profit and manage expenses accordingly going forward.
Click to expand...

If lack of funding is a myth, there isn’t another valid reason not to move up.
Click to expand...

I don’t know if your calculations are valid. Once you go FBS your expenses go way up with more scholarships, etc. You may be looking at break even.
 
Spanky2 said:
garizzalies said:
Exactly! I don’t get it either.
UM’s revenue from athletics is about $23m and its expenses are about $22m leaving about $1mil in “profits”.
The MWC pays a bonus of $4m. So basically our current amount and quadruple more profit.
Most would jump at the opportunity of 4x the profit and manage expenses accordingly going forward.
Click to expand...

If lack of funding is a myth, there isn’t another valid reason not to move up.
Click to expand...

I don’t know if your calculations are valid. Once you go FBS your expenses go way up with more scholarships, etc. You may be looking at break even.
 
bigsky33 said:
Spanky2 said:
If lack of funding is a myth, there isn’t another valid reason not to move up.
Click to expand...

I don’t know if your calculations are valid. Once you go FBS your expenses go way up with more scholarships, etc. You may be looking at break even.
Click to expand...
As another poster mentioned, we should also consider the benefits to basketball such as increased game attendance for conference games.
 
Tell you what, I got a few beers and me and a broken bolt fixed on the combine header so I’m in a better mood. Throw in a playoff for the group of 5 and add mens and womens wrestling and I’m willing to compromise.
 
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