Some Ask a Taboo Question: Is America Overreacting to Coronavirus?

Get the low down on Griz/FCS Football
Post Reply
hokeyfine
Posts: 883
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:29 am

PlayerRep wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:38 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:30 am


A few have. Doubt the suits will have much traction. But some businesses are at least trying to uphold that pesky constitution. We should probably just rewrite that damn thing anyway... ;)

https://reason.com/2020/03/30/this-busi ... ure-order/
Hockey: Legislators rarely bring actions to enforce the Constitution. Suits are brought by plaintiffs lime in the linked situations, and by plaintiffs who are backed by groups that have money and lawyers to fund and push the cases along, and sometimes to the US Supreme Court.
i see. it just seems that the word "unconstitutional" is a buzzword that is used to incite and most people(a general term, not pointing at any particular person) who use it have no idea what they are talking about. Kinda like "WMD". If you say it enough, people will unfortunately start to believe it.
CatGrad-UMGradStu
Posts: 921
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:03 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:55 am
Dutch, two questions.

Have you seen any data to suggest that the "bad", i.e. non-universal healthcare systems has caused many virus deaths? I haven't noticed any, nor have I looked.

Note that the virus deaths are mainly older people who are eligible for Medicare. I've read that over 80% of the deaths are for people old enough to be on Medicare. Also, in most but not all states, the level for qualifying for Medicaid is 133% (or 138% now) of federal poverty level. 72.5 million on Medicaid.

One of the big reasons Americans are unhealthy is because alot of people are overweight, or way overweight. Does that have much to do with having healthcare coverage?

If you have data supporting your view that the extent of the virus problem in the US is the result of uneven or non-universal healthcare, bring it to our attention. I'm not looking for people's opinions, I've seen enough of that, I would like to see data or facts.
I'm not being my usual smartass self here, but I want to see a link (complete with graphs) showing just how fat and out of shape the typical American is and furthermore, what is the physical condition of the majority of the deaths attributed to Covid-19. I know Gallatin County had the highest number of positives and virtually 100 percent of them recovered and are back to their regular routines. There has to be a study out there linking the two to something other than underlying conditions.
hokeyfine
Posts: 883
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:29 am

https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-yahoo-ne ... 43610.html

Are conservatives and liberals really this stupid? Are we so bored as a society that we need to fill our lives conspiracy theories?
Apparently the answer is yes. :roll:
PlayerRep
Posts: 27089
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

1. "It’s Okay to Acknowledge Good COVID-19 News

Among progressives and journalists, there’s a widespread sense that no one should say things have gotten better ... or people are going to die."

[This is a conservative publication.]

"The coronavirus has taken a heartbreaking toll on Americans, but the course of the virus is not the same as it was a few months ago. We are on the other side of the curve. There are encouraging signs all over the country, and no early indications of a reopening debacle.
The question now is whether the media and political system can absorb good news on the virus, which is often ignored or buried under misleading storylines.

The press has a natural affinity for catastrophes, which make compelling viewing and good copy. The pandemic is indeed a once-in-a-generation story. So, the media are naturally loath to shift gears and acknowledge that the coronavirus has begun to loosen its grip.

Meanwhile, progressives and many journalists have developed a near-theological commitment to the lockdowns, such that any information that undermines them is considered unwelcome, even threatening. This accounts for the widespread sense that no one should say things have gotten better . . . or people are going to die.

Usually, when it is thought the public can’t handle the truth, it is a truth about some threat that could spark panic. In this case, the truth is information that might make people think it’s safe to go outside again.

Almost all of the discussion about reopening is framed by worries that we will reopen too soon, not that we might reopen too late. That is literally unthinkable, even as we have entered a new phase.

As data analyst Nate Silver pointed out the other day, the seven-day rolling average for deaths is 1,362, down from 1,761 the previous week and a peak of 2,070 on April 21. That’s still much too high, but the trend is favorable.

The reopenings could certainly still go awry, but so far there is no clear indication of it. Cases are still falling in Austria, Denmark, and Norway, despite those countries’ being relatively far along on reopening. Denmark has been mystified why it is almost five weeks into reopening and hasn’t yet seen increases in infections."

Read in National Review: https://apple.news/A3ZA4bDOSQ3Cv6LSQzZMTow

2. "Hawaii is enforcing 14-day self-quarantines with single-use hotel keys

Every person arriving to Hawaii must sign an order to confirm they are aware of the self-quarantine requirement."

"Up to 30 June, visitors and locals arriving in the state have to quarantine for two weeks before being granted the freedom to explore. This applies to island-hopping as well, so those who have quarantined on one island have to repeat the experience if they move to another one.

They are not permitted to leave their rooms other than for medical emergencies, and food must be delivered to them. To facilitate this, all but four Hawaiian hotels are giving guests a single-use key when they check in, that won't work if they leave the room and try to get back in. If they break the rule, hotel staff can report them to authorities. Two of the hotels who are not participating have opted out because they use physical keys rather than electronic ones.

Visitors arriving in the state must also undergo a health screening, and have to sign an order to confirm they are aware of the self-quarantine requirement and understand that violating it is a criminal offence. They have to confirm where they're staying and acknowledge that they understand that not adhering to the rules can result in a $5000 (€4577) fine and a year in prison. Law enforcement officials are taking any breaches very seriously and are publically searching for anyone breaching the conditions.

Read in Lonely Planet: https://apple.news/A4gKZ4de6S6SqA0hPDq74SQ

3. "Trump: 'We are not closing our country' if second wave of coronavirus hits

President Donald Trump on Thursday said "we are not closing our country" if the U.S. is hit by a second wave of coronavirus infections. Trump answered questions from the reporters during a visit to a Ford plant in Michigan."

Read in CNBC: https://apple.news/AONEKKhAMSbeze1FcE8hYTQ

4. "End New York City's lockdown now!

By prolonging the coronavirus shutdown long after its core mission was accomplished, Gov. Cuomo and Mayor de Blasio have plunged tens of thousands of New Yorkers into poverty."

[NY Post editorial a few days ago.]

"By prolonging the coronavirus shutdown long after its core mission was accomplished, Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Bill de Blasio have plunged tens of thousands of New Yorkers into poverty.

It needs to end. Now.

In mid-March, we were told we have to endure a lockdown to ensure that hospitals didn’t get overrun. We did. The hospitals were not overwhelmed. We turned the Javits Center into a hospital. We didn’t need it. We brought in a giant Navy ship to treat New Yorkers. We didn’t need it.

We were told we were moments away from running out of ventilators. We weren’t, and now the United States has built so many, we are giving them away to other countries.

Meanwhile, the Big Apple is ­dying. Its streets are empty. The bars and jazz clubs, restaurants and coffeehouses sit barren. Beloved haunts, storied rooms, perfect-slice joints are shuttered, many for good. The sweat equity of countless small-business owners is evaporating. ­Instead of getting people back to work providing for their families, our mayor talks about a fantasyland New Deal for the post-coronavirus era.

Open the city. All of it. Right now. Broadway shows, beaches, Yankees games, the schools, the top of the freakin’ Empire State building. Everything. New Yorkers have already learned to socially distance. Businesses can adjust. The elderly and infirm can continue to be isolated.

What the hell is going on? Is anybody in charge of this situation? Or are we just left with the governor and his talking-head brother ­arguing on CNN about which of the two Ma loves best? (Who cares?)

If our elected leaders won’t save the world’s greatest city from a slow death by economic strangulation, then the people of New York must do it themselves. Barbers, tailors, nail ­salons, sporting goods stores, movie theaters and others should open their doors — while maintaining social distancing, of course — and dare the state to shut them down.
Our politicians serve by our consent; we don’t run our businesses or live our lives by their consent. The suggestion to the contrary is an ­affront to Americanism.

It has been a long time since this country, let alone this city, really had to deal with the prospect of mass starvation. This isn’t about the stock market — it’s about parents putting their kids to bed hungry and hoping tomorrow there will be something for them to eat if they get up at 4:30 a.m. and get in line at the food bank.

We did what we were asked. We flattened the freakin’ curve. There is no longer any reasonable justification for the government to deprive us of our livelihoods. And our rights aren’t the government’s to grant or take away. They belong to us — the free grant of nature and the God of nature. We’re Americans. More than that: New Yorkers, goddammit."

Read in New York Post: https://apple.news/AWoSPzldoT4usIq2o0IPzrw

5. "Opinion | Is the coronavirus the end for fancy restaurants — and the start of a new dining era?

Innovative chefs and their establishments shape the way we eat, drink, produce and think about food today. It's unclear what happens if that's gone."

"And some of the chef-owners who run the most exclusive, most expensive and often most innovative restaurants in the country are starting to sound like they don’t see how they will survive. In Seattle, the pre-pandemic home to one of the country’s most adventurous, high-end restaurant scenes, some of the city’s most exciting new boîtes were built around intimate dining experiences — places that were designed to be small at which guests sit at “chef’s counters” during a few seatings per night. There is no way to effectively sanitize a dining experience that is about physical intimacy and have it remain even vaguely similar.

And really, the question has to be asked: Why try?"

Read in NBC News: https://apple.news/AGvWScaGtTXalfeCFSEzxug

6. "'Hot' nurse gets support after suspension for exposing bra and panties

Russian doctors and a politician have reportedly come to the defense of a nurse who was suspended from her hospital job for wearing just skivvies underneath her personal protective equipment. “No disciplinary methods should be imposed on the [nurse],” Vitaly Milonov, a member of the United Russia party told Russian newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda, according to The Sun. “In no case should the girl be punished, I am sharply against this.” The nurse, identified only as Nadia, 23, was suspended from her hospital job for wearing just skivvies under her personal protective equipment.

[Open link and glance at photos.]

"“In no case should the girl be punished, I am sharply against this.”

The nurse, identified only as Nadia, 23, was suspended from the Tula Regional Clinical Hospital for “non-compliance with the requirements for medical clothing,” the Tula Pressa newspaper had reported.

Nadia claimed to managers that she did not realize that her underwear was showing through the PPE and that she was “too hot” to wear clothing under the head-to-toe vinyl gown.
The head of the Doctors’ Alliance, Dr. Anastasia Vasilyeva, said her group would assist Nadia in fighting the punishment, the report said.

Vasilyeva also said the material of the nurse’s see-through gown was problematic.
“Firstly, a plague-proof costume is never transparent. And it must be made of a completely different fabric,” she said.

“We need to pay attention not to her [underwear], but that the [gown] does not meet the necessary standards.”

Read in New York Post: https://apple.news/AXTsh-agzQYCh5a3ZE2qxxw

7. "Big Bear Lake [CA] will not enforce governor’s order"

"The Big Bear Lake City Council unanimously approved a statement that allows businesses and residents within the city of Big Bear Lake to take their own action in regard to the governor’s stay at home order. There are effectively no rules being enforced, no plan and no enforcement in the city of Big Bear Lake effective immediately.

During a special meeting May 21, the council approved a statement that reads “City will not enforce governor’s orders, encourages all businesses and residents to maintain 6 feet of separation, wear face coverings and practice good hygiene as outlined in city plan.”

Frank Rush, city manager, said because of the low number of cases in the Valley and the tremendous economic and social harm to businesses, the legal option is to state that the city will not enforce the governor’s orders."

http://www.bigbeargrizzly.net/news/big- ... f33c9.html

8. "U.S. to Invest $1.2 Billion to Secure Potential Coronavirus Vaccine From AstraZeneca, Oxford University

The U.S. government has agreed to hand AstraZeneca up to $1.2 billion to secure the supply of a potential coronavirus vaccine that could be ready as early as October."

"The U.S. government has agreed to hand AstraZeneca PLC up to $1.2 billion to secure the supply of a potential coronavirus vaccine that could be ready as early as October.
Under the deal, the government will bankroll a 30,000-person vaccine trial in the U.S. starting in the summer, plus the ramp-up of manufacturing capacity to make at least 300 million doses. The first doses will be ready in the fall should the vaccine prove effective, it said.

Alex Azar, the Health and Human Services secretary, called the deal a “major milestone” in the administration’s effort—code-named “Operation Warp Speed”—to make a safe, effective vaccine widely available to Americans by 2021.

The vaccine in question was developed by the University of Oxford’s Jenner Institute and is one of a small group of candidates already being tested in humans. Others include vaccines from Pfizer Inc. and Moderna Inc. AstraZeneca, under a licensing deal with Oxford, has responsibility for manufacturing the university’s vaccine, and has promised to sell the vaccine without making a profit during the pandemic.

The U.S. government has moved fast to secure supply deals with vaccine makers, although the AstraZeneca deal is its biggest by far. It has also awarded Johnson & Johnson $456 million to ramp up U.S. production of the drugmaker’s potential vaccine to 300 million doses, with the first of those available by early 2021 should the shot prove effective.

It has also awarded Moderna $483 million to ramp up production of its candidate and another $30 million to support research into a potential vaccine from France’s Sanofi SA, though those deals don’t commit either company to manufacture a set number of doses in the U.S. It is doing those deals through its Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority division, or Barda, which was set up in 2006 to prepare for biologic threats such as pandemics and bioterrorism."

Read in The Wall Street Journal: https://apple.news/AOUF8QiUYRlmsIUMkzLMNLA no paywall

9. "New York Officials Sent Over 4,300 COVID Patients to Nursing Homes, Says Report

More than 5,800 deaths have been linked to nursing and adult-care facilities in New York."

"New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has called the state’s nursing homes “the optimum feeding ground for this virus,” and these shocking figures might show why that’s the case. The Associated Press reports that New York health officials sent more than 4,300 recovering coronavirus patients directly to nursing homes under a state directive that was later reversed over fears that it was acting as a catalyst for the nation’s worst outbreak. The directive, which was intended to help free up hospital beds, was made on March 25 and reversed on May 10. Cuomo said this week that he didn’t believe the directive contributed to the more than 5,800 nursing and adult-care facility deaths in New York."

Read in The Daily Beast: https://apple.news/A-xWOWWlzRtySepOmtbO8Aw

10. "Singapore’s Covid-19 case fatality rate is remarkably low. Why?

Death rates can be the byproduct of lots of testing — and a little randomness."

[A lot of Singapore's positives were young people. They must have kept the virus away from older people, or been lucky, or both.]

"Based on those numbers, just 0.07 percent of people in Singapore who contracted the coronavirus have died from it.

Singapore’s case fatality rate may be so low because it is testing a lot of people with mild or no symptoms.

The country has escalated its testing because of Covid-19 outbreaks in the dormitories that house many of Singapore’s low-wage migrant workers. You may recall that, by late March, the island seemed to have Covid-19 under control. Leaning on the lessons from the SARS outbreak in 2003, the country implemented a rapid testing-and-tracing program, as well as restricting travel into Singapore and requiring self-quarantines.

But then cases started to rise again — almost entirely because of infections among migrant workers, who live together in tightly packed dormitories on the edge of the city. As the second wave began to crest in Singapore in mid-April, about 90 percent of the new cases turned out to be foreign workers who were living in the dorms.

So Singapore implemented a new screening program with the goal of testing effectively every single worker living in those facilities. It is testing thousands of workers every day, whether or not they show any Covid-19 symptoms.

These people are generally young; they’ve come to Singapore to work on construction projects or in manufacturing or in the health care sector. And we know the Covid-19 fatality rates among younger people are much, much lower in general than among seniors.
So if you want to understand why the case fatality rate is so stubbornly low in Singapore, part of it is a matter of chance: The groups of people who got sick were at a lower risk of dying. But equally — if not more — important is the prevalence of testing and the country’s focus on testing these younger and sometimes asymptomatic people."

Read in Vox: https://apple.news/AthpolhBrT7a0j5q9Yyl-Sg

11. "The End of Meat Is Here

If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating animals."

[Don't think I agree with this op-ed.]

"Is it more essential than the lives of the working poor who labor to produce it? It seems so. An astonishing six out of 10 counties that the White House itself identified as coronavirus hot spots are home to the very slaughterhouses the president ordered open.

In Sioux Falls, S.D., the Smithfield pork plant, which produces some 5 percent of the country’s pork, is one of the largest hot spots in the nation. A Tyson plant in Perry, Iowa, had 730 cases of the coronavirus — nearly 60 percent of its employees. At another Tyson plant, in Waterloo, Iowa, there were 1,031 reported cases among about 2,800 workers."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/21/opin ... e=Homepage

12. "These 6 countries are cautiously reopening for summer travel

Travel destinations will require tourists to pre-book beach time slots, download contact-tracing apps and more."

[But not necessarily opening for travel from US to the European countries, at least initially.]

Read in The Washington Post: https://apple.news/A-3k_YxPGQoG9EADzaD59RQ no paywall

13. [Note that these CDC numbers are for planning purposes, not actual stats, and the CDC is getting some flack.]

"CDC estimates that 35% of coronavirus patients don't have symptoms

A third of Covid-19 patients are asymptomatic and 0.4% of those who get sick will die, CDC says."

"The CDC also says its "best estimate" is that 0.4% of people who show symptoms and have Covid-19 will die, and the agency estimates that 40% of coronavirus transmission is occurring before people feel sick.

Under the best estimate scenario, the guidance says 3.4% of symptomatic people with Covid-19 will require hospitalization, with that number rising to 7.4% in people 65 and older. The CDC also says it assumes that people without symptoms are just as infectious as those with symptoms.

The agency cautions that those numbers are subject to change as more is learned about Covid-19, and it warns that the information is intended for planning purposes. Still, the agency says its estimates are based on real data collected by the agency before April 29.
The numbers are part of five planning scenarios that "are being used by mathematical modelers throughout the federal government," according to the CDC. Four of those scenarios represent "the lower and upper bounds of disease severity and viral transmissibility."

The fifth scenario is the CDC's "current best estimate about viral transmission and disease severity in the United States." In that scenario, the agency described its estimate that 0.4% of people who feel sick with Covid-19 will die.

For people age 65 and older, the CDC puts that number at 1.3%. For people 49 and under, the agency estimated that 0.05% of symptomatic people will die.

Expert pushes back
Under the most severe of the five scenarios outlined -- not the agency's "best estimate" -- the CDC lists a symptomatic case fatality ratio of 0.01, meaning that 1% of people overall with Covid-19 and symptoms would die.

In the least severe scenario, the CDC puts that number at 0.2%.
One expert quickly pushed back on the CDC's estimates.

"While most of these numbers are reasonable, the mortality rates shade far too low," biologist Carl Bergstrom of the University of Washington told CNN.

Bergstrom, an expert in modeling and computer simulations, said the numbers seemed inconsistent with real-world findings.

"Estimates of the numbers infected in places like NYC are way out of line with these estimates. Let us remember that the number of deaths in NYC right now are far more than we would expect if every adult and child in the city had been infected with a flu-like virus. This is not the flu. It is COVID," Bergstrom said.

"As I see it, the 'best estimate' is extremely optimistic, and the 'worst case' scenario is fairly optimistic even as a best estimate. One certainly wants to consider worse scenarios," Bergstrom said of CDC's numbers.

"By introducing these as the official parameter sets for modeling efforts, CDC is influencing the models produced by federal agencies, but also the broader scientific discourse because there will be some pressure to use the CDC standard parameter sets in modeling papers going forward," he said.

"Given that these parameter sets underestimate fatality by a substantial margin compared to current scientific consensus, this is deeply problematic."

Read in CNN: https://apple.news/A1V8yl8roRCaNHKF3gy4mbw

14. "Sunlight Seems to Inactivate the Coronavirus: Study"

"Scientists found imitation sunlight "rapidly inactivated" SARS-CoV-2 on stainless steel coupons in a lab. The findings were published in The Journal of Infectious Diseases.

Past studies have shown that SARS-CoV-2 can linger in the right conditions on non-porous indoor surfaces for days, the authors explained in their paper. One widely-referenced study published in the New England Journal of Medicine showed the germ can live for up to three days on plastic and steel, compared with 24 hours on cardboard, four hours on copper, and up to three hours as an aerosol.

To explore whether SARS-CoV-2 can survive in outdoor-like conditions, the team used a device which simulates natural sunlight, including ultraviolet rays. They also controlled the temperature and humidity in a lab chamber. The virus was grown both in lab culture and in a liquid resembling human saliva. The samples were then dried on stainless steel coupons.

The contaminated coupons were stuck to a mounting strip and attached to the wall of the chamber, and exposed to light for different lengths of time, ranging from 2 - 18 minutes. Another set of virus-laden coupons were put in the chamber for up to 60 minutes in darkness as the control.

Ultraviolet B (UVB) rays were found to quickly inactivate SARS-CoV-2, according to the team. In conditions resembling midday sunlight on the longest day of the year at 40 degrees north latitude, 90 percent of the virus was inactivated every 6.8 minutes in the saliva.

Sunlight representing winter solstice in the same latitude inactivated the virus every 14.3 minutes in saliva. SARS-CoV-2 was inactivated at rates twofold greater in saliva than in the culture media for reasons that weren't immediately clear. The virus on the coupons kept in the dark, meanwhile, barely changed.

The findings indicate that the virus' ability to spread may be "significantly reduced" in outdoor conditions when exposed to direct sunlight, compared to indoor conditions, the authors wrote. "Additionally, these data provide evidence that natural sunlight may be effective as a disinfectant for contaminated non-porous materials," they said."

Read in Newsweek: https://apple.news/AfG3plsLEQAu4kIF3WMcN6w

15. "Animal Which Passed the Coronavirus from Bats to Humans Probably Wasn't a Pangolin, Study Suggests"

"The coronavirus which has infected more than 5 million people likely didn't jump from bats to pangolins to humans, according to a study. The authors of the paper published in the journal PLOS Pathogens explained that evidence does suggest that SARS-CoV-2, the name of the coronavirus which causes COVID-19, came from bats.

As direct interactions between humans and bats are relatively rare, scientists around the world are trying to find a potential intermediary host for SARS-CoV-2. This is an animal which has been infected with different viruses which merge to create a virus better at infecting humans.

In what are known as recombination events, viruses of two different strains co-infect the same cell of a host to create a germ with some genes from both parents. In the five months since the COVID-19 pandemic started, pangolins—scaly mammals who look like anteaters—have emerged as a potential source.

SARS-CoV—the virus behind the SARS outbreak of 2002 to 2004—is thought to have jumped from bats to civets to people, and MERS—which emerged in 2012—from bats to dromedary camels to humans.

https://www.newsweek.com/animal-which-p ... ts-1505005

15. "Survey Says Two In Three Locked-Down Americans Can't Remember The Last Time They Wore Real Pants"

[Read this summary. It's interesting, and funny.]

"With millions of people working from home due to COVID-19, “workplace casual” has taken on a whole new meaning: A new survey says two in three Americans can’t remember the last time they actually wore real pants.

Four in five respondents said their nine-to-five uniform is now either PJs or other comfy clothes.

The non-scientific survey of 2,000 Americans commissioned by MattressFirm also offered peeks into that working-from-home life. For example, 44% said despite their lack of a commute, they’ve still clocked in late to work.

Six in 10 say they’ve taken a nap during the day; nearly six in 10 say they work from their beds all day.

That being said, 70% said they’ve been more productive working from home than they were when they were at the office.

Between the comfy clothes, no traffic and naps, perhaps it’s no surprise that 70% of the Americans polled say they preferred working from home."

https://www.ksro.com/2020/05/21/survey- ... eal-pants/

16. "At least a quarter of the workforce is out of a job. How much worse will it get?

A Q&A with our reporters and economist Austan Goolsbee, the former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers."

"The economic impact of the pandemic is staggering. The latest numbers on unemployment claims came out this morning: 2.4 million workers filed for unemployment last week, which means at least 38.6 million Americans — about 23.4 percent of the workforce — have lost their jobs over the past nine weeks as the coronavirus pandemic continues to ravage the economy.

[A variety of opinions. Some say things will be as bad as the Depression, but they hope that things will recover faster.]

Read in POLITICO: https://apple.news/AWIZC_mFRQVyJC6j_27hagw

Edit: 17. "U.K. to Require 14-Day Quarantine of Arrivals to Contain Coronavirus
British government shifts from largely open borders to limit Covid-19 transmission"

"The U.K. government said it would impose next month a 14-day self-quarantine requirement for nearly all travelers arriving into the country, a tightening that comes as the rest of Europe slowly begins to ease border restrictions.

Britain has been among a small number of countries to leave their borders largely open during the Covid-19 crisis. With infection rates falling, the U.K. government argued that a quarantine would make it easier to halt a new wave of Covid-19 infections.

“We are introducing these new measures now to keep the transmission rate down and prevent a devastating second wave,” U.K. Home Secretary Priti Patel said on Friday.

The quarantine will come into force on June 8 and be reviewed every three weeks. Except for workers in a handful of industries including trucking and medicine, people arriving in the country will have to hole up at a given address for two weeks or face a £1,000 fine ($1,218).

Italy has said it would reopen to travelers from all Schengen countries on June 3. France is taking a reciprocal approach, planning to open its borders with countries including Germany that have agreed to let French residents in. Paris has threatened to quarantine people from countries that impose such measures on people from France."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-to-req ... listb_pos1
Last edited by PlayerRep on Fri May 22, 2020 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PlayerRep
Posts: 27089
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Today's MT virus report:

0 new cases, 3 hospitalizations and 23 pending cases.

32,000 total tests, and over 1,000 test results came back yesterday/this morning.
PlayerRep
Posts: 27089
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

[Some stats from the England, where things have gotten much better. In England, healthy people under 40 are more likely to be hit by lightning than die from the virus.]

1. "Coronavirus death toll in UK could drop to zero in late June, experts say"

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-covi ... 36905.html

2. "We’re all in the big numbers now

Adding up the damage Britain’s Covid-19 policies have caused"

"First: who has the disease killed? Covid-19 targets the old and the sick; this is not to be callous, but to understand the enemy and to provide context. The average age of those dying of covid-19 in the UK is over 80, and fully a third are residents of care homes where average “stay” (a euphemism I’m afraid) was only 30 months from admission before the virus anyway.

Our statistics agencies are only now following Italy’s lead and publishing the comorbidities of those dying from covid-19, and it is now clear just how extreme is the amplification of risk. 95% of victims dying with covid-19 have serious pre-existing conditions: not just background illnesses, but severe enough to be mentioned as causes of death on death certificates. The most prevalent are dementia and diabetes (a quarter of cases, each), hypertension (a fifth) and serious lung, kidney or heart disease (around a sixth each). In both the UK and Italy, the average victim had three comorbidities severe enough to be causes of death on a certificate.

With no serious pre-existing conditions, the young-ish and healthy are far more likely to be hit by lightning (49 occurrences per annum in UK) than to die of covid-19 (33 in England under age 40, of which only 3 under the age of 19). Panning out, among healthy under 60s (i.e. children and the vast majority of our working population), 253 people have died of covid-19 in English hospitals; this compares to 400 (non-suicide) drownings per year in the UK. And taking all age-groups where there are no pre-existing conditions serious enough to be mentioned as contributary causes of death, covid-19 has taken about 2/3rds the lives that British roads do every year, and we wouldn’t think of outlawing driving, swimming or going outside in a storm.

Even taking all deaths where covid-19 is mentioned on the death certificate regardless of age or comorbidities, looking at the total toll: 43,000 lives is less than 2018’s excess winter deaths and would count as a bad, but by no means remarkable, influenza year.

We also have ‘controls’, since not all countries have behaved the same. Neither Sweden nor Japan have locked down so, if the lockdown hypothesis were true, Stockholm would by now be a morgue and Greater Tokyo (population 38 million) a necropolis.

In Sweden, Professors Giesecke and Tegnell have managed the epidemic within Sweden’s healthcare capacity without suspending civil liberties or shutting down schools or society (Sir Patrick Vallance’s “Plan A”), with no greater death-toll than our own.

The final scientific datum would have been historical context. The media has not pointed out that the toll of covid-19 is only 0.5% that of the 1918/1919 influenza, before the advent of antibiotics.

https://thecritic.co.uk/were-all-in-the ... mbers-now/
Dutch Lane
eGriz Club
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:06 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:55 am
Dutch, two questions.

Have you seen any data to suggest that the "bad", i.e. non-universal healthcare systems has caused many virus deaths? I haven't noticed any, nor have I looked.

Note that the virus deaths are mainly older people who are eligible for Medicare. I've read that over 80% of the deaths are for people old enough to be on Medicare. Also, in most but not all states, the level for qualifying for Medicaid is 133% (or 138% now) of federal poverty level. 72.5 million on Medicaid.

One of the big reasons Americans are unhealthy is because alot of people are overweight, or way overweight. Does that have much to do with having healthcare coverage?

If you have data supporting your view that the extent of the virus problem in the US is the result of uneven or non-universal healthcare, bring it to our attention. I'm not looking for people's opinions, I've seen enough of that, I would like to see data or facts.
Thanks for the shout out PR. No I have not seen or looked for that data either. Don’t know the answer to whether obesity and lack of health care coverage are related. Sweden’s obesity rate is like 20% one of the lowest rates for developed countries and the U.S has a rate of 36% which is THE highest rate for developed countries. One has universal healthcare the other doesn’t. So there’s that.

My view is the virus problem is not simply a result of coverage or lack of coverage. My view of the virus problem is the abject failure of the Trump administration to take steps early on to prepare by following well established WHO protocols, which are to identify, trace and quarantine. I believe that early strategic decisions on how to react to the crisis were driven by craven re-election politics rather then science. The metric that history will use to judge Trump will be comparisons to the successful responses of SARS, MERS, Ebola, n1h1 as compared to covid 19. History will not be kind. What is your view on why the US has the most infections and deaths? Do you think any mistakes were made by Trump and what should he have done differently? Thanks
blackfoot griz
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:14 pm

Dutch, respectfully, in your opinion, did the Trump Administration's China travel ban come too soon or too late? He got absolutely hammered as being xenophobic, etc. when it was initiated. Now, many are saying it was too late.

I am curious how people feel about this at this point in the game.
grizghost
Posts: 720
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:46 pm

Dutch Lane wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:19 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:55 am
Dutch, two questions.

Have you seen any data to suggest that the "bad", i.e. non-universal healthcare systems has caused many virus deaths? I haven't noticed any, nor have I looked.

Note that the virus deaths are mainly older people who are eligible for Medicare. I've read that over 80% of the deaths are for people old enough to be on Medicare. Also, in most but not all states, the level for qualifying for Medicaid is 133% (or 138% now) of federal poverty level. 72.5 million on Medicaid.

One of the big reasons Americans are unhealthy is because alot of people are overweight, or way overweight. Does that have much to do with having healthcare coverage?

If you have data supporting your view that the extent of the virus problem in the US is the result of uneven or non-universal healthcare, bring it to our attention. I'm not looking for people's opinions, I've seen enough of that, I would like to see data or facts.
Thanks for the shout out PR. No I have not seen or looked for that data either. Don’t know the answer to whether obesity and lack of health care coverage are related. Sweden’s obesity rate is like 20% one of the lowest rates for developed countries and the U.S has a rate of 36% which is THE highest rate for developed countries. One has universal healthcare the other doesn’t. So there’s that.

My view is the virus problem is not simply a result of coverage or lack of coverage. My view of the virus problem is the abject failure of the Trump administration to take steps early on to prepare by following well established WHO protocols, which are to identify, trace and quarantine. I believe that early strategic decisions on how to react to the crisis were driven by craven re-election politics rather then science. The metric that history will use to judge Trump will be comparisons to the successful responses of SARS, MERS, Ebola, n1h1 as compared to covid 19. History will not be kind. What is your view on why the US has the most infections and deaths? Do you think any mistakes were made by Trump and what should he have done differently? Thanks
….In my view... history will play little on what the Trump administration did but will mostly focus on the Chinese deception...
this will become clearer once countries like Taiwan can be heard...yes history will not be kind to China and how they deceived
and controlled the WHO and media..the world suffered..there's only one to blame here and its not Trump!
argh!
eGriz Club
Posts: 7850
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:20 pm

grizghost wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:18 am
Dutch Lane wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:19 am

Thanks for the shout out PR. No I have not seen or looked for that data either. Don’t know the answer to whether obesity and lack of health care coverage are related. Sweden’s obesity rate is like 20% one of the lowest rates for developed countries and the U.S has a rate of 36% which is THE highest rate for developed countries. One has universal healthcare the other doesn’t. So there’s that.

My view is the virus problem is not simply a result of coverage or lack of coverage. My view of the virus problem is the abject failure of the Trump administration to take steps early on to prepare by following well established WHO protocols, which are to identify, trace and quarantine. I believe that early strategic decisions on how to react to the crisis were driven by craven re-election politics rather then science. The metric that history will use to judge Trump will be comparisons to the successful responses of SARS, MERS, Ebola, n1h1 as compared to covid 19. History will not be kind. What is your view on why the US has the most infections and deaths? Do you think any mistakes were made by Trump and what should he have done differently? Thanks
….In my view... history will play little on what the Trump administration did but will mostly focus on the Chinese deception...
this will become clearer once countries like Taiwan can be heard...yes history will not be kind to China and how they deceived
and controlled the WHO and media..the world suffered..there's only one to blame here and its not Trump!
speaking of china, hong kong is gone, no longer a wonderful place where there was rule of law, amazing people and amazing food.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/23/worl ... e=Homepage


By Hannah Beech
May 23, 2020, 5:00 a.m. ET

Hong Kong was born at the crossroad of empires, a hybrid of British and Chinese parentage. It may fade there, too.

This “barren rock,” as an envoy of Queen Victoria once called it, transformed into one of the world’s first truly global cities, a place where international finance has thrived as its people created a cultural identity all their own. Even the territory’s current political system is bound by a negotiated settlement, called “one country, two systems,” that, despite all odds and an inelegant moniker, seemed to work.

But this week, Hong Kong discovered the limits to the middle ground that it has carved out to nourish one of the most prosperous and dynamic cities on earth: between East and West, between rice and bread, between a liberal and an authoritarian order.

The territory’s fate is once again being decided in faraway halls of power, as Beijing moves forward with plans to strip some of the autonomy the territory was supposed to enjoy for 50 years after Britain returned it to China in 1997.

The death knell for Hong Kong has been sounded many times since that handover. But the proposed national security legislation could have crushing implications for a place so dedicated to the international language of commerce that the local form of English is stripped of embellishment. Can, no can?

Too often these days, the answer is no can.

The new national security laws, outlined at the annual session of China’s legislature on Friday, will likely curtail some of the civil liberties that differentiate Hong Kong from the rest of the country. And they take aim at the mass protest movement that showed the world last year the extent to which people were willing to go to protect their hybrid home.

“At the end of the day, we have to accept that we answer to one country,” said Nicholas Ho, the 33-year-old scion of a Hong Kong tycoon family. “And that country is more and more powerful.”
User avatar
IdaGriz01
Posts: 9448
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: Idaho Falls

argh! wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:44 am
speaking of china, hong kong is gone, no longer a wonderful place where there was rule of law, amazing people and amazing food.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/23/worl ... e=Homepage


By Hannah Beech
May 23, 2020, 5:00 a.m. ET

Hong Kong was born at the crossroad of empires, a hybrid of British and Chinese parentage. It may fade there, too.

This “barren rock,” as an envoy of Queen Victoria once called it, transformed into one of the world’s first truly global cities, a place where international finance has thrived as its people created a cultural identity all their own. Even the territory’s current political system is bound by a negotiated settlement, called “one country, two systems,” that, despite all odds and an inelegant moniker, seemed to work.

But this week, Hong Kong discovered the limits to the middle ground that it has carved out to nourish one of the most prosperous and dynamic cities on earth: between East and West, between rice and bread, between a liberal and an authoritarian order.

The territory’s fate is once again being decided in faraway halls of power, as Beijing moves forward with plans to strip some of the autonomy the territory was supposed to enjoy for 50 years after Britain returned it to China in 1997.

The death knell for Hong Kong has been sounded many times since that handover. But the proposed national security legislation could have crushing implications for a place so dedicated to the international language of commerce that the local form of English is stripped of embellishment. Can, no can?

Too often these days, the answer is no can.

The new national security laws, outlined at the annual session of China’s legislature on Friday, will likely curtail some of the civil liberties that differentiate Hong Kong from the rest of the country. And they take aim at the mass protest movement that showed the world last year the extent to which people were willing to go to protect their hybrid home.

“At the end of the day, we have to accept that we answer to one country,” said Nicholas Ho, the 33-year-old scion of a Hong Kong tycoon family. “And that country is more and more powerful.”
Sad, sad, sad.

An "autonomous" HK was never going to work, IMO, barring a major revolt in mainland China. To be honest, I did not think it would last even this long.

And with many of the Chinese people apparently showing approval of the "social credit" system -- because it will make them feel "safer" -- things will likely only get worse. Question (given the general lack of reliable information out of China): Are "average" people in China really so brainwashed that they think that the full-time monitoring of all behavior, leading to social credit scores, is a good thing? Or are they just even more afraid to speak up?
User avatar
DuCharme
Posts: 5625
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2002 5:00 pm

166 under 40 have died in the UK. That was as of May 5th. I don’t believe more than 166 lightning strike deaths have occurred for that age group, lol. People just make stats up.
PlayerRep
Posts: 27089
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

Dutch Lane wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:19 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:55 am
Dutch, two questions.

Have you seen any data to suggest that the "bad", i.e. non-universal healthcare systems has caused many virus deaths? I haven't noticed any, nor have I looked.

Note that the virus deaths are mainly older people who are eligible for Medicare. I've read that over 80% of the deaths are for people old enough to be on Medicare. Also, in most but not all states, the level for qualifying for Medicaid is 133% (or 138% now) of federal poverty level. 72.5 million on Medicaid.

One of the big reasons Americans are unhealthy is because alot of people are overweight, or way overweight. Does that have much to do with having healthcare coverage?

If you have data supporting your view that the extent of the virus problem in the US is the result of uneven or non-universal healthcare, bring it to our attention. I'm not looking for people's opinions, I've seen enough of that, I would like to see data or facts.
Thanks for the shout out PR. No I have not seen or looked for that data either. Don’t know the answer to whether obesity and lack of health care coverage are related. Sweden’s obesity rate is like 20% one of the lowest rates for developed countries and the U.S has a rate of 36% which is THE highest rate for developed countries. One has universal healthcare the other doesn’t. So there’s that.

My view is the virus problem is not simply a result of coverage or lack of coverage. My view of the virus problem is the abject failure of the Trump administration to take steps early on to prepare by following well established WHO protocols, which are to identify, trace and quarantine. I believe that early strategic decisions on how to react to the crisis were driven by craven re-election politics rather then science. The metric that history will use to judge Trump will be comparisons to the successful responses of SARS, MERS, Ebola, n1h1 as compared to covid 19. History will not be kind. What is your view on why the US has the most infections and deaths? Do you think any mistakes were made by Trump and what should he have done differently? Thanks
First, I ask you, again, what steps did the Trump admin fail to take early on, and when? You must have an idea of what the steps were, to be able to say what you just did. What WHO protocols are you referring to?

Like others in this thread, I blame China, as well as WHO, the most. History will judge China very harshly.

Under that setting/background, it seems to me that the Trump admin did fine overall. Some things better than others.

The early China ban was terrific, and way ahead in the game. Trump was criticized for it at the time. While I recall no one was clambering for a European travel ban, I suppose that could have been done even sooner, in retrospect.

Creating/manufacturing the test was a problem and slow. It was done by the CDC, which has apparently always done the tests and done them well. While Trump appointed the head of the CDC, a 22,000 employee organization with supposedly tons of expertise, I don't really blame Trump, or anyone else yet, except the people who allowed contaminated manufacturing.

The FDA was slow in approving third party tests. Part of this was because of the US law/regulation that kicked into place and required what the FDA was requiring. The Trump admin finally jumped in and got the process shortcut and moving. This process could/should have been faster, but prior administrations put in the laws, regulations and created the bureaucracy. Trump is a huge deregulation guy. I assume this process will get changed for the future.

Mnuchin, Powell et al stepped up timely and big time to help with the money and economic things. This has been a huge positive, as far as I can tell. Congress has done its part, but probably could have moved slightly faster.

Note that WHO declared a pandemic on March 11.

The big problems in the US are the NYC metro area and nursing homes. I think about 1/3 of deaths in nursing homes, including in places like NY, which, along with some other states, ordered nursing homes to accept virus patients. Those were orders from governors and states. Without the huge NYC metro area and nursing home problems, the US would look much better.

The US has lots of cases and lots of deaths for various reasons. It's one of the most populated countries. It's honest in its reporting, and countries like China and other aren't.
NYC metro and other places have large older populations, like Italy. As you and others have pointed out, the US has a large number of unhealthy and overweight people.

NY and NYC were slow to lock down. I'm not blaming Cuomo and de Blasio, yet, but they made those decisions. As I understand it, the federal government doesn't have the authority to open and shut down states/cities. The states have that authority. The head of the NY hospital group was advising de Blasio, as of March 10, that there was no need to shut down.

NY put in its stay at home order on March 20. Ill did the same on that day. NY had 40% of the US cases at that time. By comparison, the MT stay at home order and non-essential business thing went into place on March 28. MT has closed schools on March 15.

Trump said/did this on March 16: "my administration is recommending that all Americans, including the young and healthy, work to engage in schooling from home when possible, avoid gathering in groups of more than 10 people, avoid discretionary travel and avoid eating and drinking at bars, restaurants and public food courts." This is what NPR said at the time:

"ARI SHAPIRO: Has the U.S. ever done anything like this before?

RICHARD HARRIS: I think it is truly extraordinary.
Now, China did this and more, I might add, including clamping down on domestic travel, and they did it with the force of law."



As far as I can tell, and Fauci has said this, Trump listened to Fauci and Birx when they went to him with big things/concerns, and he took their advice. Those were the recommendations for more and more social distancing, and extending them.

Stats for cases and deaths per capita. In this listing, the US is 11th in cases per capita, behind Qatar, Luxembourg, Singapore, Spain, Iceland,.

For deaths per capita, the US is listed as 12th, behind Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK, France, Sweden, Netherlands, Ireland.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

What would I have done differently? I, magically, would have been more on top of WHO. I would have told states to better protect nursing homes. I would have told NY and NYC to not become the biggest problem in the world. I wouldn't have suggested shutting down as many areas geographically. I wouldn't have used the concept of essential business/activities and would have made the concept safe or safe enough. I would have focused more on protecting older and unhealthy people. I would have kept more business open, or sort of open. I would have caused less damage to the economy. I would have allowed spring football practice at Dartmouth and UM. Didn't you read my blueprint for re-opening that I posted about May 5? Ha. By the way, I beefed it up a bit and edited, about 2 weeks ago, but haven't re-typed it. I hope to do that shortly.
Dutch Lane
eGriz Club
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:06 pm

hokeyfine wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:39 am
PlayerRep wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:38 am


Hockey: Legislators rarely bring actions to enforce the Constitution. Suits are brought by plaintiffs lime in the linked situations, and by plaintiffs who are backed by groups that have money and lawyers to fund and push the cases along, and sometimes to the US Supreme Court.
i see. it just seems that the word "unconstitutional" is a buzzword that is used to incite and most people(a general term, not pointing at any particular person) who use it have no idea what they are talking about. Kinda like "WMD". If you say it enough, people will unfortunately start to believe it.
What is constitutional or unconstitutional is based upon what 5 justices in DC say it is at that moment in time. Lol. Really it’s that simple. Right now it’s 5-4 conservatives and it Is what ever the hell the say it is. So there’s that
PlayerRep
Posts: 27089
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

DuCharme wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:33 am
166 under 40 have died in the UK. That was as of May 5th. I don’t believe more than 166 lightning strike deaths have occurred for that age group, lol. People just make stats up.
It's the number of HEALTHY people under 40 who died, compared to the number of people HIT by lightning.

This is the original quote that I posted from an article:

"With no serious pre-existing conditions, the young-ish and healthy are far more likely to be hit by lightning (49 occurrences per annum in UK) than to die of covid-19 (33 in England under age 40"

Yes, sometimes people make up stats, and sometime people don't correctly read the stats, apparently. Ha.
Last edited by PlayerRep on Sat May 23, 2020 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
argh!
eGriz Club
Posts: 7850
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:20 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:35 pm
DuCharme wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:33 am
166 under 40 have died in the UK. That was as of May 5th. I don’t believe more than 166 lightning strike deaths have occurred for that age group, lol. People just make stats up.
It's the number of HEALTHY people under 40 who died, compared to the number of people HIT by lightning.

This is the original quote that I posted from an article:

"With no serious pre-existing conditions, the young-ish and healthy are far more likely to be hit by lightning (49 occurrences per annum in UK) than to die of covid-19 (33 in England under age 40"
that isn't a legit comparison - the virus count is for about two months, the lightening a year. if you are generous and call it three months, that would be eleven per month, or one hundred thirty two per year.
PlayerRep
Posts: 27089
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

argh! wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:41 pm
PlayerRep wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:35 pm


It's the number of HEALTHY people under 40 who died, compared to the number of people HIT by lightning.

This is the original quote that I posted from an article:

"With no serious pre-existing conditions, the young-ish and healthy are far more likely to be hit by lightning (49 occurrences per annum in UK) than to die of covid-19 (33 in England under age 40"
that isn't a legit comparison - the virus count is for about two months, the lightening a year. if you are generous and call it three months, that would be eleven per month, or one hundred thirty two per year.
Feel free to contact the author of the article:

Alistair Haimes

Alistair Haimes has worked with data professionally for 25 years. @AlistairHaimes
Hoops watcher
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:15 pm

IdaGriz01 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:48 am
argh! wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:44 am
speaking of china, hong kong is gone, no longer a wonderful place where there was rule of law, amazing people and amazing food.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/23/worl ... e=Homepage


By Hannah Beech
May 23, 2020, 5:00 a.m. ET

Hong Kong was born at the crossroad of empires, a hybrid of British and Chinese parentage. It may fade there, too.

This “barren rock,” as an envoy of Queen Victoria once called it, transformed into one of the world’s first truly global cities, a place where international finance has thrived as its people created a cultural identity all their own. Even the territory’s current political system is bound by a negotiated settlement, called “one country, two systems,” that, despite all odds and an inelegant moniker, seemed to work.

But this week, Hong Kong discovered the limits to the middle ground that it has carved out to nourish one of the most prosperous and dynamic cities on earth: between East and West, between rice and bread, between a liberal and an authoritarian order.

The territory’s fate is once again being decided in faraway halls of power, as Beijing moves forward with plans to strip some of the autonomy the territory was supposed to enjoy for 50 years after Britain returned it to China in 1997.

The death knell for Hong Kong has been sounded many times since that handover. But the proposed national security legislation could have crushing implications for a place so dedicated to the international language of commerce that the local form of English is stripped of embellishment. Can, no can?

Too often these days, the answer is no can.

The new national security laws, outlined at the annual session of China’s legislature on Friday, will likely curtail some of the civil liberties that differentiate Hong Kong from the rest of the country. And they take aim at the mass protest movement that showed the world last year the extent to which people were willing to go to protect their hybrid home.

“At the end of the day, we have to accept that we answer to one country,” said Nicholas Ho, the 33-year-old scion of a Hong Kong tycoon family. “And that country is more and more powerful.”
Sad, sad, sad.

An "autonomous" HK was never going to work, IMO, barring a major revolt in mainland China. To be honest, I did not think it would last even this long.

And with many of the Chinese people apparently showing approval of the "social credit" system -- because it will make them feel "safer" -- things will likely only get worse. Question (given the general lack of reliable information out of China): Are "average" people in China really so brainwashed that they think that the full-time monitoring of all behavior, leading to social credit scores, is a good thing? Or are they just even more afraid to speak up?
Take on Hong Kong: https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ch ... ong-156641. Another from The Atlantic:https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... on/611983/. Reason:
https://reason.com/2020/05/22/a-huge-bl ... ELxgQ0yxxs. Spectator: https://spectator.us/blame-china-commun ... ronavirus/

I think when all is said and done the changes in the world's relationship with Xi's version of China will have a far more lasting effect on history than this pandemic. I don't know the result, but I have no doubt it will be fundamental.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. -H L Mencken
PlayerRep
Posts: 27089
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am

1. "Fauci: ‘Most of the Country’ Reopening ‘in a Prudent Way’ – ‘Prolonged’ Lockdowns Aren’t the Way to Go"

"On Friday’s broadcast of CNBC’s “Halftime Report,” White House Coronavirus Task Force member Dr. Anthony Fauci said “staying locked down for a prolonged period of time” is not the right approach, and “most of the country” is reopening “in a prudent way.”

Fauci said, “I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go.”


He continued that while locking down at the beginning was needed, “now is the time, depending upon where you are and what your situation is — is to begin to seriously [look] at reopening the economy, reopening the country to try and get back to some degree of normal. I’m totally in favor of that, if done in the proper way, in the appropriate setting.”

Fauci added that he is concerned if places are reopening while cases are increasing and they’re not following the recommended benchmarks. He further stated, “n general, I think most of the country is doing it in a prudent way. There are obviously some situations where people might be jumping over that. I just say please proceed with caution if you’re going to do that.”

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/05 ... way-to-go/

2. "Italy’s plan to drastically relax social distancing is a “calculated risk”

The Italian prime minister says measures like reopening borders are needed for the economy."

"Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced on Saturday that Italy will allow European travelers to enter the country without quarantining beginning in June — a notable step in relaxing one of the most stringent coronavirus-spurred lockdowns in the world.

The prime minister acknowledged that easing border controls — combined with other steps his country is taking to return to normalcy — could spark a surge in cases of the virus, but argued that doing so was necessary for the economy.

“We’re facing a calculated risk in the knowledge that the contagion curve may rise again,” Conte said in an announcement. “We have to accept it otherwise we will never be able to start up again.”

He added that Italy “would end up with a strongly damaged economic and social structure” if it waited to relax distancing measures until a vaccine becomes available, something that may not happen for at least 12 to 18 months.

Beyond changes to its border policy, Italy is in the midst of an incremental winding down of many social distancing rules after it sharply reduced the rate at which Covid-19 was spreading within the country. On Saturday, the country announced 153 deaths tied to the coronavirus — the lowest number of daily fatalities since March 9.

In the hope of stimulating Italy’s economy, shops, hair salons, bars, and restaurants will be allowed to reopen Monday, but businesses are expected to observe strict hygiene rules and to keep people one meter (a little over three feet) apart.

And in the coming weeks, more and more of the lockdown will be reversed:

On May 25, Italy will allow gyms, swimming pools, and sports centers to open up.

On June 3, travelers from European Union countries can begin to enter Italy without going into a quarantine for two weeks, and a ban on traveling between different regions within the country will be scrapped.

On June 15, cinemas and theaters are free to reopen their doors.

Some lockdown measures have already been relaxed. On May 4, Italy allowed construction, manufacturing, wholesale businesses and parks to reopen.

Read in Vox: https://apple.news/Aj1BH1d_4STaejn9Qe5cWiA

3. "Scientists are optimistic about a vaccine in record time — and more good news

Plus: How masks helped Hong Kong control the coronavirus, wildlife is thriving in closed national parks, and more good news amid the coronavirus crisis."

"A New Entry in the Race for a Coronavirus Vaccine: Hope

Scientists are increasingly optimistic that a vaccine can be produced in record time.
But getting it manufactured and distributed will pose huge challenges."

"In labs around the world, there is now cautious optimism that a coronavirus vaccine, and perhaps more than one, will be ready sometime next year.

Scientists are exploring not just one approach to creating the vaccine, but at least four. So great is the urgency that they are combining trial phases and shortening a process that usually takes years, sometimes more than a decade.

The coronavirus itself has turned out to be clumsy prey, a stable pathogen unlikely to mutate significantly and dodge a vaccine.

“It’s an easier target, which is terrific news,” said Michael Farzan, a virologist at Scripps Research in Jupiter, Fla.

What people don’t realize is that normally vaccine development takes many years, sometimes decades,” said Dr. Dan Barouch, a virologist at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston who led the monkey trials. “And so trying to compress the whole vaccine process into 12 to 18 months is really unheard-of.

If that happens, it will be the fastest vaccine development program ever in history.”
Different Approaches to a Coronavirus Vaccine

More than 100 research teams around the world are taking aim at the virus from multiple angles."

Read in Apple News Spotlight: https://apple.news/AuRbEGtkzSBGivhHQRY9iKg

[This is a NY Times article, no paywall.]

4. "A hairstylist worked while showing COVID-19 symptoms, exposing 91 to the virus

A Great Clips salon hairstylist in Springfield, Missouri, with coronavirus and showing symptoms exposed 84 clients and seven coworkers to COVID-19 in eight days, health officials say"

[This is awful and inexcusable.]

"A Great Clips hairstylist exposed dozens of clients to coronavirus while showing symptoms, Missouri health officials say.

The stylist at a salon franchise in Springfield served 84 clients and exposed seven coworkers, the Springfield-Greene County Health Department said Friday. The hairstylist also visited a Dairy Queen, Walmart and fitness center, officials said.

The hairstylist exhibited symptoms while working on eight days between May 12 and May 20, health officials said. The health department is providing testing to all people “directly exposed” to the hairstylist. The stylist and clients wore masks during the appointments
officials said.


Read in The Kansas City Star: https://apple.news/AGBUcMGnHRuqgE_1l-Y8apA

5. "Hospitals, Nursing Homes Seek More Liability Shields

Health-care providers lobby for greater state and federal protection against lawsuits amid coronavirus pandemic"

"Hospitals and nursing homes are pushing for more protection against patient lawsuits amid the coronavirus pandemic, aiming to add to shields that have already been enacted by more than 30 states.

Still, plaintiffs in several states with liability protections in place are moving forward with suits. At least three attorneys general in states with legal shields—Pennsylvania, New Jersey and New York—are investigating nursing homes’ treatment of residents after thousands of deaths in their facilities.

At least 24 states have recently taken action, through laws or executive orders or both, to protect health-care providers—typically including doctors, hospitals and often nursing homes as well, according to a survey by law firm Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell & Berkowitz, which often defends health-care providers in litigation. An additional 10 states had previously passed such immunity laws, which were automatically activated when a state of emergency was declared.

The scope of the shields varies widely. Some only apply to patients with Covid-19, the illness caused by the new coronavirus, while others include all care that may have been affected by the pandemic. The state actions typically carve out exceptions for behavior that is considered particularly egregious, often defined as “gross negligence” or “willful misconduct.”

Nursing-home owners, hospitals and doctors, among others, are lobbying Congress to enact national liability protections. Patients and providers can move across states, which have a patchwork of liability laws, said Tom Nickels, executive vice president of the American Hospital Association, adding that uniformity would provide “a level playing field.”

One factor driving the push is that some states ordered hospitals to delay medical care and public officials urged hospitals to do so. As patients waited, some saw their conditions worsen, and they and their families may later challenge decisions to postpone care, said Janis Orlowski, chief health-care officer for the Association of American Medical Colleges.

Meanwhile, resources became scarce where hospitals saw coronavirus cases surge, Dr. Orlowski said. “Because everyone pitched in and because everyone was doing what we thought was best at the time, we are looking for immunity for liability from unforeseen consequences of those decisions,” Dr. Orlowski said.

In California, which has liability protections that kick in when an emergency is declared, nursing homes and others such as physician assistants aren’t covered. The nursing-home industry, hospital groups, doctors and insurers are pushing for an order from Gov. Gavin Newsom that would expand the shield."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hospitals- ... 00?mod=mhp

6. [Hertz filed for bankruptcy protection.]

7. "Nevada casinos may reopen June 4 if coronavirus cases don't spike this weekend"

[This will be interesting, and seems to have many risks. But if this can be made to work, that will be great news.]

"Nevada’s hotel-casinos can reopen June 4 if the number of COVID-19 cases doesn’t soar during Memorial Day weekend, Nevada Gov. Steve Sisolak said Friday afternoon.

Sisolak will hold a news conference Tuesday to confirm the June 4 date if health officials and the Nevada Gaming Control Board give their stamps of approval.

Nevada’s resorts have been waiting for the reopen order since March 17, when Sisolak ordered their closure to stem the spread of the coronavirus. Gaming brought in $12 billion to the Nevada economy in 2019, more than half of which came from the Las Vegas Strip, according to the CDC Gaming Reports.

If the governor gives the go-ahead, Caesars Palace and the Flamingo will reopen June 4, Caesars Entertainment said. Hotel rooms, along with gambling, swimming pools and a limited number of restaurants, will be available.

The company also on June 4 plans to open some of the retail shops and restaurants at Linq Promenade. The pedestrian mall’s anchor, the High Roller observation wheel, is expected to open the same day.

Activities such as bars, buffets, live entertainment, spas and valet parking will not immediately reopen, the statement said."

https://news.yahoo.com/nevada-casinos-m ... 03c1dvLmmj
Post Reply