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Defensive Scheme

Missoula223 said:
I apologize that you weren’t paying attention to the entire conversation. The discussion was whether or not the 3-3-5 is a “gimmick defense.” Given that it’s basically 1 of 2 options vs 11 personnel, it is not.

Please find anywhere in any of my recent posts where I advocated that it was such a great scheme. Not sure what you think you are arguing about there. In fact, I said that I had called defenses for 14 years and 11 of which, were 4 down fronts.

But if you want to have the discussion I will happily indulge you since it’s a happy talking point that “no championship teams do it.”

Do you really think that none of the championship caliber defenses line up in 3 down fairly regularly on base downs? Both Georgia and Alabama have made money off 3 down and mint fronts in the recent past. If run defense is such a big issue, what defensive front do you prefer to be in? Wouldn’t you like a 0 nose if you knew you were getting gap scheme run game?
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And yet Georgia runs primarily a 4-2-5…🤔

www.footballtimes.org

4-2-5 Defense: The Balanced Front for Run & Pass Georgia's Defense

Implement the 4-2-5 defense like Georgia: learn 4-down line, 2 LBs, 5 DBs, and gap responsibility. Implementing Georgia's Dominate 4-2-5 Defense.
www.footballtimes.org www.footballtimes.org

At no point did I say there was never a reason to run a 3 man front or to have some variation of it. Did I? I also believe that, if you weren’t paying attention to the entire conversation, I defended you to someone on your statement that there were indeed only 2 options against 11 personnel. I guess you missed that.
I also happen to totally agree with you. I just believe one is infinitely better than the other unless you have, as previously stated, a unicorn d lineman, 2 shutdown corners and nfl caliber linebackers. My proof is in the fact that the ONLY time that the 3-3-5 has been successful here we had those things. You and I may disagree on what constitutes gimmicky and that’s fine.
Finally, I case you weren’t paying attention to the entire conversation, I also pointed out that I find ISU’s 3-3-5 intriguing but they don’t rely on undersized linemen that get washed like last weeks underwear to run it.
 
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RobGriz said:
And yet Georgia runs primarily a 4-2-5…🤔

www.footballtimes.org

4-2-5 Defense: The Balanced Front for Run & Pass Georgia's Defense

Implement the 4-2-5 defense like Georgia: learn 4-down line, 2 LBs, 5 DBs, and gap responsibility. Implementing Georgia's Dominate 4-2-5 Defense.
www.footballtimes.org www.footballtimes.org

At no point did I say there was never a reason to run a 3 man front or to have some variation of it. Did I? I also believe that, if you weren’t paying attention to the entire conversation, I defended you to someone on your statement that there were indeed only 2 options against 11 personnel. I guess you missed that.
I also happen to totally agree with you. I just believe one is infinitely better than the other unless you have, as previously stated, a unicorn d lineman, 2 shutdown corners and nfl caliber linebackers. My proof is in the fact that the ONLY time that the 3-3-5 has been successful here we had those things. You and I may disagree on what constitutes gimmicky and that’s fine.
Finally, I case you weren’t paying attention to the entire conversation, I also pointed out that I find ISU’s 3-3-5 intriguing but they don’t rely on undersized linemen that get washed like last weeks underwear to run it.
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What is your opinion on Illinois State’s strength and conditioning program from what you have seen from their defensive? I noticed you said they don’t rely on undersized lineman. Do you think that our current defensive scheme would work better with players of their size on the defensive line?
 
RobGriz said:
I don’t recall saying anything about “magic buttons”.
And stop talking like you’re the only one in the conversation and like no one has a base defense and everyone is just running some kind of 3-3/3-4/4-3/4-2 hybrid and no one has a base defense.
But let me get this right, you’re saying it’s not our defense that’s the problem, it’s that the coaches can’t recruit for it or that they can’t teach it? Geez, maybe if it’s that hard to coach and get players for it isn’t the right defense. MSU has a pretty good defense. They seem to have no problems recruiting for it or teaching it. Per Colter their defensive playbook is 4 pages long. Wow…so complex.
In the 7 years Hauck has been back the defense has been good to very good 1 year. One. That’s it. Keep defending it.
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The D was pretty good this season.
 
5280Griz said:
What is your opinion on Illinois State’s strength and conditioning program from what you have seen from their defensive? I noticed you said they don’t rely on undersized lineman. Do you think that our current defensive scheme would work better with players of their size on the defensive line?
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I think their S&C guy is awesome. The fact that he used to be our S&C coach but was replaced under somewhat sketchy circumstances says something about the current state of affairs inside the program. Maybe it’s not that big of a deal.
As far as the size of their lineman I believe you and I talked about that previously, but it may have been someone else. Lotta beef on that d line. They average 290 between the three starters vs our 250. And here I was told those kind of linemen were unavailable at this level which is why it was imperative that we run the 3-3-5 as we could only recruit undersized d linemen and the iteration of the 3-3-5 we run was designed for that.
It was interesting to see NDSU’s run game struggle against ISU. I noticed that Villanova was able to run against it in the first quarter and I haven’t watched more of that game but I’m assuming ISU shut them down after that.
 
mthoopsfan said:
They run both. Do your homework. I follow Georgia closely and attend games most every year, as does my family. You don’t.
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I did. They do. But they are primarily a 4-2-5 team. I don’t care if you go to every game and your daughter is dating the quarterback. Their NIL is a lot better than ours as is their roster and coaching staff. They can afford to be multiple when needed
 
RobGriz said:
I did. They do. But they are primarily a 4-2-5 team. I don’t care if you go to every game and your daughter is dating the quarterback. Their NIL is a lot better than ours as is their roster and coaching staff. They can afford to be multiple when needed
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The question shouldn’t be whether the 3-3-5 is a gimmick defense in football but rather if it is realistic to get the personnel to successfully execute it here.
 
5280Griz said:
The question shouldn’t be whether the 3-3-5 is a gimmick defense in football but rather if it is realistic to get the personnel to successfully execute it here.
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Maybe so. All I know is something has to change. We can’t keep getting blown off the ball by Bozeman st and we can’t give up 3rd and forevers like we have been. I’ve heard all the excuses like, it’s complex and it relies on chaos which is true. It’s so complex that you have to be a 6 year player to understand and it creates so much chaos that apparently no one on the defense knows what the hell they’re doing.
 
mthoopsfan said:
Yes. And I know D and talk to the coaches.
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You don’t even have to know D. Just look at where the overall defense ranks within our conference. 2/12 in the Big Sky is pretty good. Cherry picked plays don’t paint the whole picture. Look at the overall defensive statistics throughout the season. I think some poster’s memories are tainted from the defense’s worst games being against MSU.
 
RobGriz said:
Maybe so. All I know is something has to change. We can’t keep getting blown off the ball by Bozeman st and we can’t give up 3rd and forevers like we have been. I’ve heard all the excuses like, it’s complex and it relies on chaos which is true. It’s so complex that you have to be a 6 year player to understand and it creates so much chaos that apparently no one on the defense knows what the hell they’re doing.
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It seems we're going to be reliant on the Portal for the foreseeable future if our current recruiting situation is anything to go by, especially in State recruiting.

Correct me if I'm wrong but how is running an exotic and complicated Defense, that is difficult to learn, that will constantly have to be reloading with Transfer Portal players, while seemingly incapable of getting the size on the Line we need to be successful a winning strategy?
 
Ut-Grizfan said:
It seems we're going to be reliant on the Portal for the foreseeable future if our current recruiting situation is anything to go by, especially in State recruiting.

Correct me if I'm wrong but how is running an exotic and complicated Defense, that is difficult to learn, that will constantly have to be reloading with Transfer Portal players, while seemingly incapable of getting the size on the Line we need to be successful a winning strategy?
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Kinda been my question the whole time. No worries though, I’ve been assured it’s fine…we’re fine. It’s fine
 
Skookum-Jim said:
They were second in conference in pts allowed at 25.5 pts/game and second in rush defense at 142 yards/game. Id say that's a pretty good defense.
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I mean playing teams like Portland State, Indiana State, Sacred Heart etc. I'm sure had something to do with those numbers. Not saying we were an incompetent Defense but the facts don't lie when looking at the Data vs the Cats and other top FCS programs, historically overall it struggles against them.
 
Ut-Grizfan said:
I mean playing teams like Portland State, Indiana State, Sacred Heart etc. I'm sure had something to do with those numbers. Not saying we were an incompetent Defense but the facts don't lie when looking at the Data vs the Cats and other top FCS programs, historically overall it struggles against them.
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The Cats were an elite defense which is a lot better than pretty good. I agree that it has not matched up well against the Cats. The story of all the recent losses to the Cats has been the same with our defense. We can’t stop the run and they control the clock! Even in the close game in Missoula this year the defense couldn’t step up when we needed them to.
 
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